History Headscratchers / MusicTheory

30th Mar '12 11:36:43 AM Jeduthun
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Specifically, it has to do with what's called "note spelling." In standard usage a scale should contain one tone for each letter name, so in A major (for instance), "A, B, C#, D..." is correct because "A, B, Db, D..." wouldn't make sense. Meanwhile, Ab major goes "Ab, Bb, C, Db..." for the same reason. Context is exactly the point.
16th Feb '12 9:22:51 AM Jhimmibhob
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* What bugs me is the (major) pentatonic scale being called a scale. You can only build two different triads out of one, and it just sounds like a normal diatonic major scale with two notes left out (so it can is compatible with three different major diatonics). It doesnt help that hardly anyone composes in this 'scale' but rather uses it for melody over something that is in a diatonic scale. Modes arent considered scales, so why is this?

to:

* What bugs me Why is the (major) pentatonic scale being called a scale. scale? You can only build two different triads out of one, and it just sounds like a normal diatonic major scale with two notes left out (so it can is compatible with three different major diatonics). It doesnt help that hardly anyone composes in this 'scale' but rather uses it for melody over something that is in a diatonic scale. Modes arent considered scales, so why is this?



* It bugs me that some people (mainly obstinate theory teachers at certain schools) claim that two enharmonic notes are somehow different beyond what you call them. ''No'', they're ''not''. Look, I'm pressing C# on the piano. Now I'm pressing Db on the piano. Guess what, they're the ''same key'' producing the ''same pitch'', the only thing that determines the correct name for the note is ''context''.

to:

* It bugs me that Why do some people (mainly obstinate theory teachers at certain schools) theoreticians claim that two enharmonic notes are somehow different beyond what you call them. ''No'', they're ''not''. aside from their names? Look, I'm pressing C# on the piano. Now I'm pressing Db on the piano. Guess what, they're They're the ''same key'' producing the ''same pitch'', pitch'': the only thing that determines the correct name for the note is ''context''.



*** This is true, but since western music works pretty much exclusively with equal temperament, isn't lecturing your students on the differences between enharmonic notes - in a western music theory class where they won't get any use out of this knowledge - kind of pointless?
* It bugs me that in some European countries (notably Germany, but also Denmark, where this Tropes originates) the note B (the one between A and C) is named H. And it is almost exclusively something classically educated musicians use. It makes no sense whatsoever, and the reason it is even called H is allegedly because some monk couldn't read that it was called B. Since then, it has been used because "that's how we've always done it". Bah.
** Actually, as it was explained to me, it has more to do with the way folks used to "count" notes than some monks selective dyslexia. Unfortunately it was about 10 years ago and I was drunk at the time so can't remember it any better than that, but I swear it made a lot of sense at the time.
3rd Feb '12 2:50:02 PM nameredacted
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It bugs me that in some European countries (notably Germany, but also Denmark, where this Tropes originates) the note B (the one between A and C) is named H. And it is almost exclusively something classically educated musicians use. It makes no sense whatsoever, and the reason it is even called H is allegedly because some monk couldn't read that it was called B. Since then, it has been used because "that's how we've always done it". Bah.

to:

* It bugs me that in some European countries (notably Germany, but also Denmark, where this Tropes originates) the note B (the one between A and C) is named H. And it is almost exclusively something classically educated musicians use. It makes no sense whatsoever, and the reason it is even called H is allegedly because some monk couldn't read that it was called B. Since then, it has been used because "that's how we've always done it". Bah.Bah.
** Actually, as it was explained to me, it has more to do with the way folks used to "count" notes than some monks selective dyslexia. Unfortunately it was about 10 years ago and I was drunk at the time so can't remember it any better than that, but I swear it made a lot of sense at the time.
22nd Jun '11 12:17:42 AM Dedalus
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** This is true, but since western music works pretty much exclusively with equal temperament, isn't lecturing your students on the differences between enharmonic notes - in a western music theory class where they won't get any use out of this knowledge - kind of pointless?

to:

*** This is true, but since western music works pretty much exclusively with equal temperament, isn't lecturing your students on the differences between enharmonic notes - in a western music theory class where they won't get any use out of this knowledge - kind of pointless?pointless?
* It bugs me that in some European countries (notably Germany, but also Denmark, where this Tropes originates) the note B (the one between A and C) is named H. And it is almost exclusively something classically educated musicians use. It makes no sense whatsoever, and the reason it is even called H is allegedly because some monk couldn't read that it was called B. Since then, it has been used because "that's how we've always done it". Bah.
13th Jun '11 10:28:54 AM MasterInferno
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Yes, context is what determines names for notes. That's why we name them to begin with, to denote the range of possibilities that they have for relationships with other notes around them.

to:

** Yes, context is what determines names for notes. That's why we name them to begin with, to denote the range of possibilities that they have for relationships with other notes around them.them.
*** This is true, but since western music works pretty much exclusively with equal temperament, isn't lecturing your students on the differences between enharmonic notes - in a western music theory class where they won't get any use out of this knowledge - kind of pointless?
13th Jun '11 9:53:41 AM DrWhatever
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** You have to be careful. This is true ''on the piano'' with the equal temperament we're used to nowadays. They can, in fact, be [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzGDx-JJ1o not quite the same pitch]] with other temperaments; your professors just might not be doing a good job of explaining this.

to:

** You have to be careful. This is true ''on the piano'' with the equal temperament we're used to nowadays. They can, in fact, be [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzGDx-JJ1o not quite the same pitch]] with other temperaments; your professors just might not be doing a good job of explaining this.this.
** Yes, context is what determines names for notes. That's why we name them to begin with, to denote the range of possibilities that they have for relationships with other notes around them.
25th Feb '11 2:33:10 AM BRPXQZME
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It bugs me that some people (mainly obstinate theory teachers at certain schools) claim that two enharmonic notes are somehow different beyond what you call them. ''No'', they're ''not''. Look, I'm pressing C# on the piano. Now I'm pressing Db on the piano. Guess what, they're the ''same key'' producing the ''same pitch'', the only thing that determines the correct name for the note is ''context''.

to:

* It bugs me that some people (mainly obstinate theory teachers at certain schools) claim that two enharmonic notes are somehow different beyond what you call them. ''No'', they're ''not''. Look, I'm pressing C# on the piano. Now I'm pressing Db on the piano. Guess what, they're the ''same key'' producing the ''same pitch'', the only thing that determines the correct name for the note is ''context''.''context''.
** You have to be careful. This is true ''on the piano'' with the equal temperament we're used to nowadays. They can, in fact, be [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzGDx-JJ1o not quite the same pitch]] with other temperaments; your professors just might not be doing a good job of explaining this.
15th Feb '11 4:05:43 PM MasterInferno
Is there an issue? Send a Message


**Your thinking appears to be confined to the notion that all scales must act like diatonic scales. Firstly, what are commonly thought of as "modes" are actually chordal labels for the tonic of each diatonic scale relative to a given ionian scale. So technically, modes are scales. Secondly, the pentatonic mode is simply a progression of notes scaled to five notes per period. Chords, in the diatonic sense, are related to each other in a way which produces cadence. In the pentatonic scale, "chords" are simply the relationship between one note and another, without necessarily needing to interact with contextual "chords"; since this concept is so similar to the diatonic concept of chords, it's easy to confuse them.

to:

**Your thinking appears to be confined to the notion that all scales must act like diatonic scales. Firstly, what are commonly thought of as "modes" are actually chordal labels for the tonic of each diatonic scale relative to a given ionian scale. So technically, modes are scales. Secondly, the pentatonic mode is simply a progression of notes scaled to five notes per period. Chords, in the diatonic sense, are related to each other in a way which produces cadence. In the pentatonic scale, "chords" are simply the relationship between one note and another, without necessarily needing to interact with contextual "chords"; since this concept is so similar to the diatonic concept of chords, it's easy to confuse them.them.
* It bugs me that some people (mainly obstinate theory teachers at certain schools) claim that two enharmonic notes are somehow different beyond what you call them. ''No'', they're ''not''. Look, I'm pressing C# on the piano. Now I'm pressing Db on the piano. Guess what, they're the ''same key'' producing the ''same pitch'', the only thing that determines the correct name for the note is ''context''.
10th Aug '10 2:05:34 PM 71.226.201.125
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*What bugs me is the (major) pentatonic scale being called a scale. You can only build two different triads out of one, and it just sounds like a normal diatonic major scale with two notes left out (so it can is compatible with three different major diatonics). It doesnt help that hardly anyone composes in this 'scale' but rather uses it for melody over something that is in a diatonic scale. Modes arent considered scales, so why is this?

to:

*What bugs me is the (major) pentatonic scale being called a scale. You can only build two different triads out of one, and it just sounds like a normal diatonic major scale with two notes left out (so it can is compatible with three different major diatonics). It doesnt help that hardly anyone composes in this 'scale' but rather uses it for melody over something that is in a diatonic scale. Modes arent considered scales, so why is this?this?
**Your thinking appears to be confined to the notion that all scales must act like diatonic scales. Firstly, what are commonly thought of as "modes" are actually chordal labels for the tonic of each diatonic scale relative to a given ionian scale. So technically, modes are scales. Secondly, the pentatonic mode is simply a progression of notes scaled to five notes per period. Chords, in the diatonic sense, are related to each other in a way which produces cadence. In the pentatonic scale, "chords" are simply the relationship between one note and another, without necessarily needing to interact with contextual "chords"; since this concept is so similar to the diatonic concept of chords, it's easy to confuse them.
This list shows the last 9 events of 9. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.MusicTheory