History Headscratchers / Lost

29th Aug '17 10:41:51 PM PaulA
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** The gaming symbolism is not a coincidence. The main thrust of the show is that Jacob and the MiB are playing an incredibly complex game through time and space, trying to outmaneuver each other. Jacob relies on bringing people who will naturally do the right thing together, whereas the MiB is trying to corrupt and tempt the game pieces (AKA the characters) through deceptive visions and trickery. Another thing about games is that they have rules: one of which is that the pieces can't self-terminate. It's not a conscious decision of Jacob or the Island, it's a rule of the game. Another rule is that only the leader of the Others can see Jacob, meaning Ben's the only one who can kill him, and Ben's not going to kill him without being seriously tempted by the MiB, and what better way than having the man who usurped his place ''mysteriously resurrected?'' We can see the MiB changing his plan in the show already: he was trying to use Mr. Eko as his Trojan Horse to induce Locke to kill Jacob (the original plan for the show) but after Mr. Eko refused to be manipulated (i.e. Adewale wanted to leave) the MiB got rid of him.

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** The gaming symbolism is not a coincidence. The main thrust of the show is that Jacob and the MiB [=MiB=] are playing an incredibly complex game through time and space, trying to outmaneuver each other. Jacob relies on bringing people who will naturally do the right thing together, whereas the MiB [=MiB=] is trying to corrupt and tempt the game pieces (AKA the characters) through deceptive visions and trickery. Another thing about games is that they have rules: one of which is that the pieces can't self-terminate. It's not a conscious decision of Jacob or the Island, it's a rule of the game. Another rule is that only the leader of the Others can see Jacob, meaning Ben's the only one who can kill him, and Ben's not going to kill him without being seriously tempted by the MiB, [=MiB=], and what better way than having the man who usurped his place ''mysteriously resurrected?'' We can see the MiB [=MiB=] changing his plan in the show already: he was trying to use Mr. Eko as his Trojan Horse to induce Locke to kill Jacob (the original plan for the show) but after Mr. Eko refused to be manipulated (i.e. Adewale wanted to leave) the MiB [=MiB=] got rid of him.



** God works in mysterious ways. He kills your kids and your flock, and then when you ask "Why?" he gets all pissy and says, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth? Declare, if you have understanding." Jacob and the MiB always had a lot of "God vs. The Adversary" symbolism going for them, since they was introduced in "The Incident".

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** God works in mysterious ways. He kills your kids and your flock, and then when you ask "Why?" he gets all pissy and says, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth? Declare, if you have understanding." Jacob and the MiB [=MiB=] always had a lot of "God vs. The Adversary" symbolism going for them, since they was introduced in "The Incident".



*** The Island just shunted him through space a little. The source is massively electromagnetic, and it can do that. In fact, what killed Jack might've been the giant knife wound, not going into the source. Rhetorically speaking, does going into the Source actually do anything, or is that just Mother's mind games? She says 'a fate worse than death', which is highly ambiguous when taking into account that the source is both life '''AND''' death. The MiB was an exception to the natural order, because he glitched due to the Rules about Jacob not being able to kill his brother.

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*** The Island just shunted him through space a little. The source is massively electromagnetic, and it can do that. In fact, what killed Jack might've been the giant knife wound, not going into the source. Rhetorically speaking, does going into the Source actually do anything, or is that just Mother's mind games? She says 'a fate worse than death', which is highly ambiguous when taking into account that the source is both life '''AND''' death. The MiB [=MiB=] was an exception to the natural order, because he glitched due to the Rules about Jacob not being able to kill his brother.



** The MiB becoming the smoke monster is no different than the idea of the Light itself: it's a big swirling ball of electromagnetic energy that contains the electromagnetic signatures/souls/subtle bodies the dead. The MiB is similar, only the portion of the Light that is "him" is clouded and corrupted. He can only take the form of the dead because he's connected to the afterlife, the flashsideways, and he can read people's minds because it's part of the electromagnetic energy/soul/subtle body within them, not to mention the memories of everyone who's died, ever. The "how" isn't really something the show has any interest in, as it's primarily a character study about how people interpret mysterious events in their lives and react to them. There are hints, like talking about "strange matter", but the consequences are what the show is really interested in, and everything else is left vague so as not to contradict any other viewer's personal interpretation or worldview.

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** The MiB [=MiB=] becoming the smoke monster is no different than the idea of the Light itself: it's a big swirling ball of electromagnetic energy that contains the electromagnetic signatures/souls/subtle bodies the dead. The MiB [=MiB=] is similar, only the portion of the Light that is "him" is clouded and corrupted. He can only take the form of the dead because he's connected to the afterlife, the flashsideways, and he can read people's minds because it's part of the electromagnetic energy/soul/subtle body within them, not to mention the memories of everyone who's died, ever. The "how" isn't really something the show has any interest in, as it's primarily a character study about how people interpret mysterious events in their lives and react to them. There are hints, like talking about "strange matter", but the consequences are what the show is really interested in, and everything else is left vague so as not to contradict any other viewer's personal interpretation or worldview.



** Definitely Jacob. He was reminding MiB that he still had to follow the rules, even if Jacob was dead.

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** Definitely Jacob. He was reminding MiB [=MiB=] that he still had to follow the rules, even if Jacob was dead.
28th Jul '17 8:59:06 PM Mesmiranda
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28th Jul '17 8:52:32 PM Mesmiranda
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[[folder: Where's Daniel's accent in the flash-sideways?]]



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[[folder: Getting the right bearing for the Island]]



** Basicaly the TimeyWimeyBall is one of the affects of getting too close to any of the pockets of electromagnatism, which are spaced all around the island and inside it. It's not that you need to follow a right bearing to get on/off the island, it's that you need to avoid certain spots or else get hit with the full force of whatever the electronmagnatism will do with you. Between the beach and the frieghter happened to be one such pocket, so Faraday was trying to make sure the helicopter avoided it. Ajira 316 didn't go anywhere near that particular pocket and was relatively safe.

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** Basicaly the TimeyWimeyBall is one of the affects of getting too close to any of the pockets of electromagnatism, electromagnetism, which are spaced all around the island and inside it. It's not that you need to follow a right bearing to get on/off the island, it's that you need to avoid certain spots or else get hit with the full force of whatever the electronmagnatism will do with you. Between the beach and the frieghter happened to be one such pocket, so Faraday was trying to make sure the helicopter avoided it. Ajira 316 didn't go anywhere near that particular pocket and was relatively safe.



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[[folder: Where'd the polar bears go? And what about Annie?]]



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** Okay, I'm biting: Asume that they modified the rules to be "4 million in a undistubed sequence".

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** Okay, I'm biting: Asume Assume that they modified the rules to be "4 million in a undistubed sequence".undisturbed sequence".
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21st Jul '17 12:19:18 PM Malady
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** As for the initial point about why Smokey didn't just get anyone to try and stab Jacob, ''he did just that with Richard.'' He manipulated him in his dispair to thinking that killing Jacob was the only way he could save his wife from hell and sent him off to kill the man. And Jacob promptly beat the hell out of him. He probably can be killed by mortal means, and he knows he can be killed by mortal means, so he takes great care to avoid putting himself into situations where he could be killed so easily, on account of spending most of his time either hiding out in a statue few people even realise there's a secret chamber for, or away from the island where the Man in Black holds no influence over. As for the initial tropers idea this was all one massive XantosGambit, I doubt Man in Black actually planned most of it out. He was just taking advantage of situations as they came along like he did with Richard. His plan seems to consistant of "Convince Locke he needs to kill himself, then take his form and use that to get the Other's loyalty so I can bring Ben in with me to kill Jacob." Not that particularly complicated, just taking advantage of the way the wind was already blowing.

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** As for the initial point about why Smokey didn't just get anyone to try and stab Jacob, ''he did just that with Richard.'' He manipulated him in his dispair to thinking that killing Jacob was the only way he could save his wife from hell and sent him off to kill the man. And Jacob promptly beat the hell out of him. He probably can be killed by mortal means, and he knows he can be killed by mortal means, so he takes great care to avoid putting himself into situations where he could be killed so easily, on account of spending most of his time either hiding out in a statue few people even realise there's a secret chamber for, or away from the island where the Man in Black holds no influence over. As for the initial tropers idea this was all one massive XantosGambit, XanatosGambit, I doubt Man in Black actually planned most of it out. He was just taking advantage of situations as they came along like he did with Richard. His plan seems to consistant of "Convince Locke he needs to kill himself, then take his form and use that to get the Other's loyalty so I can bring Ben in with me to kill Jacob." Not that particularly complicated, just taking advantage of the way the wind was already blowing.
18th Jun '17 3:26:08 PM darthpaul
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*** Most ocean-crossing sailboats have motors as well as sails, for emergencies... I'd just assumed the engine was running.
16th May '17 4:37:37 PM nombretomado
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** [[TwinPeaks "How's Annie...? ]] [[WildMassGuessing *giggle*]] [[NightmareFuel HOW'S ANNIE?"]]

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** [[TwinPeaks [[Series/TwinPeaks "How's Annie...? ]] [[WildMassGuessing *giggle*]] [[NightmareFuel HOW'S ANNIE?"]]
11th May '17 2:42:40 PM Entrex-Brocti
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*** RuleOfSexy, obviously. Besides that, not everyone is hairy. My mom hasn't shaved a day in her life, but no hair on her arms or legs.
8th Oct '16 9:16:14 AM WarriorsGate
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* It's not impossible. It happened in the week or so between "Stranger in a Strange Land" and "The Man From Tallahassee". We know the faked wreck of Oceanic 815 was created by Widmore in response to the electromagnetic event at the end of season two, and we know Anthony Cooper heard about it before he was kidnapped, so clearly somebody had to be off-Island to kidnap Cooper during the timeframe of season three. The show probably would've tied everything together if the last thing Tom had said to Michael was, "If you'll excuse me, I have to go see a man in Tallahassee", but even so, the timeline fits.
31st Aug '16 4:43:08 PM nombretomado
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** As for Walt ... argh. Best [[WildMassGuessing wild guess]] I got for an in-universe explanation is that Walt is special in that unlike every other character, the Island cannot affect him supernaturally, just as Jacob and MIB couldn't kill one another -- kind of like Sparkhawk in TheElenium, the Island has no power over him. His presence on Ajira 316 was optional just as Desmond's presence on the Island was technically optional; he's not bound to the Island's existence in the way the candidates are.

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** As for Walt ... argh. Best [[WildMassGuessing wild guess]] I got for an in-universe explanation is that Walt is special in that unlike every other character, the Island cannot affect him supernaturally, just as Jacob and MIB couldn't kill one another -- kind of like Sparkhawk in TheElenium, ''Literature/TheElenium'', the Island has no power over him. His presence on Ajira 316 was optional just as Desmond's presence on the Island was technically optional; he's not bound to the Island's existence in the way the candidates are.
13th Jun '16 4:38:53 AM Burgerkrieg
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[[folder: How did Tom recruit Michael?]]
So Michael left the island at the end of Season 2, which is when the Swan implodes and Ben starts blocking all communications (blaming said implosion). Michael is recruited as a spy on The Freighter by Tom, weeks or even months after returning to New York. Tom is killed by Sawyer at the end of Season 3, so it must have happened at some point during the season, the problem being that a) nobody could return to (or leave, after Locke blows up the sub) the island at the time and b) Tom appears frequently throughout the season. Even ignoring that, he seems pretty pissed at Ben when he finds out he's been lying about not being able to communicate with the mainland, and even presuming he was in on it all along, the Others would probably notice if their boss's right hand man was suddenly gone for a week or two. So yeah, essentially, it's completely impossible for Tom to be off the island to recruit Michael.
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