History Headscratchers / KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance

21st Feb '17 1:27:08 PM HakkyounoTenshi
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** Sora failed by not completing the test. Yes, Xehanort screwed with it but if you want to get technical Sora didn't complete the established objectives. The instructions Sora and Riku were given for the Mark of Mastery Exam were to enter the Sleeping Worlds, unlock the seven Keyholes and get back out, having obtained a new power (it wasn't clear whether obtaining said power was a reward for completing the exam or a byproduct of completing it). While Sora got through the Sleeping Worlds and unlocked the 6 of 7 Keyholes, he didn't get that last Keyhole because of Xehanort's interference AND he couldn't get out on his own and got stuck. Riku ended up have to go and rescue him. Riku, on the other hand, managed to complete all the objectives (Sleeping Worlds, 7 Keyholes, get out), and therefore completed the exam. The reason Riku was chosen to rescue Sora is because he [[spoiler: accidentally turned himself into a Dream Eater and did his Mark of Mastery Exam in Sora's dreams]] making him the most capable of navigating them to retrieve Sora.
17th Feb '17 5:25:45 PM Superfield
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** The underlying confusion, I think, is just what Xemnas meant by "this world is real", and just what importance this fact holds. This would imply that Space Paranoids, in contrast, isn't "real". Which would, in turn, imply that the Grid is not made out of data on a hard drive somewhere, but a real physical location that can be simply flown to. Taking into consideration the entire premise of the Tron franchise and Tron Legacy in particular, this is pretty damn nonsensical. The exact nature of data in general in Kingdom Hearts isn't entirely clear to begin with, what with stuff like taking the munny purse out of Digital Twilight Town, the relationship between hearts, memories and data, and Re:coded... just kind of in general. It seems as though Nomura thought that data being able to dream didn't make sense, but in trying to fix it, created a VoodooShark instead.

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** The underlying confusion, I think, is just what Xemnas Young Xehanort meant by "this world is real", and just what importance this fact holds. This would imply that Space Paranoids, in contrast, isn't "real". Which would, in turn, imply that the Grid is not made out of data on a hard drive somewhere, but a real physical location that can be simply flown to. Taking into consideration the entire premise of the Tron franchise and Tron Legacy in particular, this is pretty damn nonsensical. Hell, just a few seconds before that, Xemnas tells Sora that the Grid was copied by Ansem the Wise and turned into Space Paranoids... so how the hell does that make any sense if the Grid isn't data? The exact nature of data in general in Kingdom Hearts isn't entirely clear to begin with, what with stuff like taking the munny purse out of Digital Twilight Town, the relationship between hearts, memories and data, and Re:coded... just kind of in general. It seems as though Nomura thought that data being able to dream didn't make sense, but in trying to fix it, created a VoodooShark instead.
11th Feb '17 10:39:08 PM Superfield
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** There's no mention of a "Realm of Sleep" anywhere in the game, only the phrase "Sleeping Worlds". As far as I can tell, the Sleeping Worlds are located in the Realm of Light, but are asleep and all have a mega-barrier around them. So, there is no "Realm of Sleep". While I'm still scratching my head over exactly what the opening sequence at Destiny Islands was and what it meant, it seems as though whatever the hell they did there made them able to penetrate the mega-barriers around the worlds. The fact that they each have to do a separate dive for each individual world leads credence to this.

to:

** There's no mention of a "Realm of Sleep" anywhere in the game, only the phrase "Sleeping Worlds". As far as I can tell, the Sleeping Worlds are located in the Realm of Light, but are asleep and all have a mega-barrier around them. So, there is no "Realm of Sleep". While I'm still scratching my head over exactly what the opening sequence at Destiny Islands was and what it meant, it seems as though whatever the hell they did there made them able to penetrate the mega-barriers around the worlds. The fact that they each have to do a separate dive for each individual world leads credence to this.this (although it doesn't explain why a Dive was necessary for The World That Never Was if it wasn't a Sleeping World... although this is likely just GameplayAndStorySegregation).



** But... how? How was Yen Sid able to do that without breaking the rules of KH time travel, introduced in this very game? Xehanort needed to be split into a Heartless and Nobody in order to time travel; seems like a lot of trouble in comparison. Not to mention that seemingly nobody outside of True Organization XIII knew about the time travel rules; even if Yen Sid knew them, a necessity for initiating time travel, why wouldn't he tell Sora and Riku? Seems like pretty critical information. And that doesn't explain Ursula, either; why the hell would she be in Destiny Islands circa Kingdom Hearts 1? And where was Kairi in this supposed instance of time travel? And why would Destiny Islands have anything to do at all with the Sleeping Worlds in the first place? My understanding is that falling into darkness =/= falling into sleep. Sleep is only what happens when you, for some reason, don't get properly restored to light following a fall to darkness (0.2 proves this; if Castle of Dreams, Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and ''Destiny Islands'' were sleeping, how did Aqua get in to them, and why were they in various states of screwed up instead of dreaming?). Destiny Islands was restored properly after KH1, so what's with the Sleeping Keyhole? The whole intro to the game just doesn't add up on so many levels.

to:

** But... how? How was Yen Sid able to do that without breaking the rules of KH time travel, introduced in this very game? Xehanort needed to be split into a Heartless and Nobody in order to time travel; seems like a lot of trouble in comparison. Not to mention that seemingly nobody outside of True Organization XIII knew about the time travel rules; even if Yen Sid knew them, a necessity for initiating them (I mean, how could he initiate time travel, travel without knowing them?), why wouldn't he tell Sora and Riku? Seems like pretty critical information. And that doesn't explain Ursula, either; why the hell would she be in Destiny Islands circa Kingdom Hearts 1? And where was Kairi in this supposed instance of time travel? And why would Destiny Islands have anything to do at all with the Sleeping Worlds in the first place? My understanding is that falling into darkness =/= falling into sleep. Sleep is only what happens when you, for some reason, don't get properly restored to light following a fall to darkness (0.2 proves this; if Castle of Dreams, Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams Enchanted Dominion and ''Destiny Islands'' were sleeping, how did Aqua get in to them, and why were they in various states of screwed up instead of dreaming?). Destiny Islands was restored properly after KH1, so what's with the Sleeping Keyhole? The whole intro to the game just doesn't add up on so many levels.
11th Feb '17 10:23:34 PM Superfield
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** The underlying confusion, I think, is just what Xemnas meant by "this world is real", and just what importance this fact holds. This would imply that Space Paranoids, in contrast, isn't "real". Which would, in turn, imply that the Grid is not made out of data on a hard drive somewhere, but a real physical location that can be simply flown to. Taking into consideration the entire premise of the Tron franchise and Tron Legacy in particular, this is pretty damn nonsensical. The exact nature of data in general in Kingdom Hearts isn't entirely clear to begin with, what with stuff like taking the munny purse out of Digital Twilight Town, the relationship between hearts, memories and data, and Re:coded... just kind of in general. It seems as though Nomura thought that data being able to dream didn't make sense, but in trying to fix it, created a VoodooShark instead.


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** There's no mention of a "Realm of Sleep" anywhere in the game, only the phrase "Sleeping Worlds". As far as I can tell, the Sleeping Worlds are located in the Realm of Light, but are asleep and all have a mega-barrier around them. So, there is no "Realm of Sleep". While I'm still scratching my head over exactly what the opening sequence at Destiny Islands was and what it meant, it seems as though whatever the hell they did there made them able to penetrate the mega-barriers around the worlds. The fact that they each have to do a separate dive for each individual world leads credence to this.


Added DiffLines:

** But... how? How was Yen Sid able to do that without breaking the rules of KH time travel, introduced in this very game? Xehanort needed to be split into a Heartless and Nobody in order to time travel; seems like a lot of trouble in comparison. Not to mention that seemingly nobody outside of True Organization XIII knew about the time travel rules; even if Yen Sid knew them, a necessity for initiating time travel, why wouldn't he tell Sora and Riku? Seems like pretty critical information. And that doesn't explain Ursula, either; why the hell would she be in Destiny Islands circa Kingdom Hearts 1? And where was Kairi in this supposed instance of time travel? And why would Destiny Islands have anything to do at all with the Sleeping Worlds in the first place? My understanding is that falling into darkness =/= falling into sleep. Sleep is only what happens when you, for some reason, don't get properly restored to light following a fall to darkness (0.2 proves this; if Castle of Dreams, Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and ''Destiny Islands'' were sleeping, how did Aqua get in to them, and why were they in various states of screwed up instead of dreaming?). Destiny Islands was restored properly after KH1, so what's with the Sleeping Keyhole? The whole intro to the game just doesn't add up on so many levels.
6th Feb '17 12:15:29 PM Superfield
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** To clarify the Keyholes, the seven that Yen Sid kept talking about were: La Cité des Cloches, The Grid, Prankster's Paradise, Country of the Musketeers, Symphony of Sorcery, Traverse Town, and within Sora's Dive to the Heart. The Destiny Islands one just gave them access to the Sleeping Worlds [[spoiler:(well, for Sora; for Riku, it gave him access to Sora's dreams)]]. Of course, the questions that arise from this are: why did both Sora and Riku have to lock a Keyhole from their side? Were they split in two for the two versions they went to? Does Riku's even count, considering the above spoiler? If so, why did they have to lock the Traverse Town one twice each? And what about that last one, that was only locked once by Riku?
1st Feb '17 10:23:20 AM ShiningDestinyKai
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** Look at the combat system, it's very similar to Birth By Sleep. So even if their normal combos are unrefined, the way they perform their techniques and spells no longer require Reaction Commands or Mana. Furthermore, they can properly perform stunts that would make [[Franchise/DevilMayCry Dante]] [[CutscenePowerToTheMax jealous]], and implement them in combat too. This training essentially strips away Sora and Riku's previous limitations (in the same way that the combat system in the series becomes more refined with each new entry, no longer just mashing X and Triangle to win boss fights like in KH2).

to:

** Look at the combat system, it's very similar to Birth By Sleep. So even if their normal combos are unrefined, the way they perform their techniques and spells no longer require Reaction Commands or Mana. Furthermore, they can properly perform stunts that would make [[Franchise/DevilMayCry Dante]] [[CutscenePowerToTheMax jealous]], and implement them in combat too. This training essentially strips away Sora and Riku's previous limitations (in the same way that the combat system in the series becomes more refined with each new entry, no longer just mashing X and Triangle to win boss fights like in KH2).limitations.
24th Jan '17 10:41:58 PM troperHearts
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*** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can technically fill in for the 7 lights needed form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness, and who's to say that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness?

to:

*** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can technically fill in for the 7 lights needed form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness, darkness when the inevitable clash forges the X-Blade, and who's to say who knows what the result of that will be? There's no indication that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness?darkness.
24th Jan '17 10:39:35 PM troperHearts
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24th Jan '17 10:39:24 PM troperHearts
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*** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can also form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness, and who's to say that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness. Xehanort was right in his belief that a balance of light and darkness is the way to go, it's just that his methods to achieve it are way too destructive.

to:

*** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can also technically fill in for the 7 lights needed form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness, and who's to say that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness. Xehanort was right in his belief that a balance of light and darkness is the way to go, it's just that his methods to achieve it are way too destructive.darkness?
24th Jan '17 10:37:10 PM troperHearts
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*** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can also form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness, and who's to say that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness. Xehanort was right in his belief that a balance of light and darkness is the way to go, it's just that his methods to achieve it are way too destructive.
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