History Headscratchers / Juno

7th Mar '14 2:00:10 PM Tuckerscreator
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** The guy at the convenience store played by Rainn Wilson.

* Vanessa, in real life, would probably be a horrible, ''horrible'' mother. She's manipulative, passive-agressive, and just downright [[JerkAss nasty.]] Who would want to give their child to scum like her?
** She's not really nasty, but more so a caricature of the traditional yuppie wife stereotype in modern society. She's exaggerated in a way so that she is a foil to Juno in every way possible (although some might just call that lazy writing). However, she made it clear that she was wiling to give the baby a loving, nurturing (if a bit controlling, but she isn't a parent yet and will have to learn how to deal with her child responsibly. Like every new parent) home when it could have ended up medical waste instead.
** She's also genuinely fond of kids - that's what the scene at the mall shows, where she's playing with her friend's young daughter. It's seeing Vanessa so unguarded in the mall that makes Juno change her mind about her, as well as the absolute joy on her face when she feels the baby kick.
*** Bet you Juno's kid will have serious issues though.
** So she's 'nasty' because her husband isn't being more mature and being more enthusiastic about a decision they supposedly made together?
*** No. Put yourself in the shoes of Juno's son, and hit the fast-forward button to the teen years, a time of serious angst and hormonal spurts. Imagine you found out from Vanessa that you were adopted, and couple that with years of living in a controlling, passive-agressive household with little emotional breathing room, and the fact that your real mother is, well, [[DeadpanSnarker Juno]]. A sane boy would probably be disgusted.
**** Of course, it's hard to name a teenage boy that ''isn't'' disgusted with their parents.
**** Why would he be 'disgusted'? Adoption is an incredibly common thing, and I think that - without getting into abortion issues and the like - the kid would eventually come to appreciate that he has lived so far because of both his mothers? Who's to say that Vanessa would have to tell him he's adopted? Who's to say that the kid's adolescence wouldn't go by just like any other kid's teenage years? Who's to say that having a child to raise won't open Vanessa up more than we saw in the film? Adoption is a perfectly common thing, and it seems really bizarre to state that the kid would be disgusted over it.
***** Adoptive parent, mind you.
** This is reading way too far into her character. She has some issues but at worst she was portrayed as both obnoxiously enthusiastic and naive to what it really means to be a parent, that doesn't make her an evil or nasty person. It's actually quite telling that in the whole sequence regarding the divorce with Mark they have a tinge of sarcasm but neither are immature about it.
** And her being naive and overenthusiastic is exactly what's going to ruin her relationship with Juno's son.
*** How, exactly? As the old cliche says, there's no guide book to raising kids. And it's HER kid. Juno opted to give it up to her, regardless of how painful that decision turned out to be. Being a parent is a learning curve, and if you're trying to imply in any way that the kid might be better off with Juno rather than a grown woman who thinks she's ready, you're nuts. The film deliberately sets her up as a foil for Juno, and whilst she might make some mistakes in raising her little boy, that's a part of parenting, and you're arrogant to try and state otherwise. ALL parents are naive, overenthusiastic, clingy and all sorts of things in equal measure.
*** I'm not implying the poor bastard would be better off with Juno. In reality, he'd probably be an abused, neglected latchkey kid. Is it not true that Vanessa has a high-paying job?
**** Also, who is to say that Vanessa won't suffer from Post-Adoption Depression that would escalate into abuse?
*** Also who's to say you're just coming up with worst possible scenarios for a situation that isn't too bad.
** It's common sense. [[Tropers/ConnorBible I]] wouldn't stand living under maternal dictatorship, especially when said maternal dictator is a stuck-up bitch like Vanessa.
*** Aaand the mommy issues come out.
** I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I don't remember anything that could imply that she was stuck up or even half as nasty as everyone here seems to think.
** No parent is perfect and the scene at the mall with her feeling the baby kick is meant to contrast Mark's muted reaction to seeing the ultrasound. She is actually interested in being a mom and parents have to grow up just as much as the kids.
*** And if she doesn't?
*** You know, if I were Juno's son, I'd make Vanessa's life a living hell.
**** What has this woman done to you?
** Personally, I'd say my mom is a bit like her. She tends to be on the negative side about most things, etc., but I think I turned out pretty normal, though. Granted, unlike Juno's kid, I have a dad and I'm not adopted, but nonetheless, you don't have to be perfect to be a mom. Honestly, I think a lot of people who nitpick her character are probably at least a little biased by the fact they expected Juno to keep her baby. And I guess Juno keeping the baby is a reasonable enough direction to see things going in, as movie characters tend to change their minds at the last minute and things started going south with the adoption when Mark got cold feet, but Vanessa isn't a horrible person just because you wanted her to be.
*** Excuse me... biased? How about concerned? The woman is probably still reeling from the split with Mark, and let's not forget that her job can cause stress. What if she's at work a lot? What if she takes out her frustrations on Juno's son? It just raises too many questions.
**** No, it really doesn't. We see from the end of the film that she is confident and mature about her break-up, and she's ready and eager and willing to be a mother. ConnorBible keeps on making Vanessa out to be some kind of monster - but what if JUNO kept the baby? Maybe she could turn into the complete monster ConnorBible makes Vanessa out to be. Vanessa is older, more mature, Juno is the immature teen who got pregnant the first time she had sex despite having her shit largely together. Who's to say that Juno couldn't turn into someone who took out ''her'' frustrations on her child, blaming it for ruining her life so early on? What makes the young teen so much ''infinitely'' more qualified than Vanessa?
***** You're defending this shrew based on her age and apparent maturity? Give me a fucking break.
***** You're the one pulling bullshit characterisation out of thin air and branding her a shrew. PROVIDE US WITH REASONS WHY JUNO WOULD BE A BETTER MOTHER.
****** I didn't even fucking imply that Juno would be a better mother! Where are you coming up with that?
** You all keep saying "Juno's son, Juno's son" He isn't Juno's son. He's Vanessa's son. Juno gave birth to him yes but as I'm sure many of us know, that does not a mother make. This isn't a case of Juno being unable to take care of her child whom she wants and Vanessa caring for him while Juno is unable to, Vanessa is adopting him which makes her just as much his mother as any adoptive parent.
*** In the context of the film, he is largely 'Juno's son'. She gives him away at the end, certainly, but it's Juno's story, and her development, and I think we even see a tiny twinge of regret from her as the movie comes to a close. I certainly agree that he's Vanessa's son (and I certainly disagree with the ranting against her by one member above) the very instant she starts looking after him, but that doesn't at all diminish what Juno has been through and must feel.

to:

** The guy at the convenience store played by Rainn Wilson.

* Vanessa, in real life, would probably be a horrible, ''horrible'' mother. She's manipulative, passive-agressive, and just downright [[JerkAss nasty.]] Who would want to give their child to scum like her?
** She's not really nasty, but more so a caricature of the traditional yuppie wife stereotype in modern society. She's exaggerated in a way so that she is a foil to Juno in every way possible (although some might just call that lazy writing). However, she made it clear that she was wiling to give the baby a loving, nurturing (if a bit controlling, but she isn't a parent yet and will have to learn how to deal with her child responsibly. Like every new parent) home when it could have ended up medical waste instead.
** She's also genuinely fond of kids - that's what the scene at the mall shows, where she's playing with her friend's young daughter. It's seeing Vanessa so unguarded in the mall that makes Juno change her mind about her, as well as the absolute joy on her face when she feels the baby kick.
*** Bet you Juno's kid will have serious issues though.
** So she's 'nasty' because her husband isn't being more mature and being more enthusiastic about a decision they supposedly made together?
*** No. Put yourself in the shoes of Juno's son, and hit the fast-forward button to the teen years, a time of serious angst and hormonal spurts. Imagine you found out from Vanessa that you were adopted, and couple that with years of living in a controlling, passive-agressive household with little emotional breathing room, and the fact that your real mother is, well, [[DeadpanSnarker Juno]]. A sane boy would probably be disgusted.
**** Of course, it's hard to name a teenage boy that ''isn't'' disgusted with their parents.
**** Why would he be 'disgusted'? Adoption is an incredibly common thing, and I think that - without getting into abortion issues and the like - the kid would eventually come to appreciate that he has lived so far because of both his mothers? Who's to say that Vanessa would have to tell him he's adopted? Who's to say that the kid's adolescence wouldn't go by just like any other kid's teenage years? Who's to say that having a child to raise won't open Vanessa up more than we saw in the film? Adoption is a perfectly common thing, and it seems really bizarre to state that the kid would be disgusted over it.
***** Adoptive parent, mind you.
** This is reading way too far into her character. She has some issues but at worst she was portrayed as both obnoxiously enthusiastic and naive to what it really means to be a parent, that doesn't make her an evil or nasty person. It's actually quite telling that in the whole sequence regarding the divorce with Mark they have a tinge of sarcasm but neither are immature about it.
** And her being naive and overenthusiastic is exactly what's going to ruin her relationship with Juno's son.
*** How, exactly? As the old cliche says, there's no guide book to raising kids. And it's HER kid. Juno opted to give it up to her, regardless of how painful that decision turned out to be. Being a parent is a learning curve, and if you're trying to imply in any way that the kid might be better off with Juno rather than a grown woman who thinks she's ready, you're nuts. The film deliberately sets her up as a foil for Juno, and whilst she might make some mistakes in raising her little boy, that's a part of parenting, and you're arrogant to try and state otherwise. ALL parents are naive, overenthusiastic, clingy and all sorts of things in equal measure.
*** I'm not implying the poor bastard would be better off with Juno. In reality, he'd probably be an abused, neglected latchkey kid. Is it not true that Vanessa has a high-paying job?
**** Also, who is to say that Vanessa won't suffer from Post-Adoption Depression that would escalate into abuse?
*** Also who's to say you're just coming up with worst possible scenarios for a situation that isn't too bad.
** It's common sense. [[Tropers/ConnorBible I]] wouldn't stand living under maternal dictatorship, especially when said maternal dictator is a stuck-up bitch like Vanessa.
*** Aaand the mommy issues come out.
** I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I don't remember anything that could imply that she was stuck up or even half as nasty as everyone here seems to think.
** No parent is perfect and the scene at the mall with her feeling the baby kick is meant to contrast Mark's muted reaction to seeing the ultrasound. She is actually interested in being a mom and parents have to grow up just as much as the kids.
*** And if she doesn't?
*** You know, if I were Juno's son, I'd make Vanessa's life a living hell.
**** What has this woman done to you?
** Personally, I'd say my mom is a bit like her. She tends to be on the negative side about most things, etc., but I think I turned out pretty normal, though. Granted, unlike Juno's kid, I have a dad and I'm not adopted, but nonetheless, you don't have to be perfect to be a mom. Honestly, I think a lot of people who nitpick her character are probably at least a little biased by the fact they expected Juno to keep her baby. And I guess Juno keeping the baby is a reasonable enough direction to see things going in, as movie characters tend to change their minds at the last minute and things started going south with the adoption when Mark got cold feet, but Vanessa isn't a horrible person just because you wanted her to be.
*** Excuse me... biased? How about concerned? The woman is probably still reeling from the split with Mark, and let's not forget that her job can cause stress. What if she's at work a lot? What if she takes out her frustrations on Juno's son? It just raises too many questions.
**** No, it really doesn't. We see from the end of the film that she is confident and mature about her break-up, and she's ready and eager and willing to be a mother. ConnorBible keeps on making Vanessa out to be some kind of monster - but what if JUNO kept the baby? Maybe she could turn into the complete monster ConnorBible makes Vanessa out to be. Vanessa is older, more mature, Juno is the immature teen who got pregnant the first time she had sex despite having her shit largely together. Who's to say that Juno couldn't turn into someone who took out ''her'' frustrations on her child, blaming it for ruining her life so early on? What makes the young teen so much ''infinitely'' more qualified than Vanessa?
***** You're defending this shrew based on her age and apparent maturity? Give me a fucking break.
***** You're the one pulling bullshit characterisation out of thin air and branding her a shrew. PROVIDE US WITH REASONS WHY JUNO WOULD BE A BETTER MOTHER.
****** I didn't even fucking imply that Juno would be a better mother! Where are you coming up with that?
** You all keep saying "Juno's son, Juno's son" He isn't Juno's son. He's Vanessa's son. Juno gave birth to him yes but as I'm sure many of us know, that does not a mother make. This isn't a case of Juno being unable to take care of her child whom she wants and Vanessa caring for him while Juno is unable to, Vanessa is adopting him which makes her just as much his mother as any adoptive parent.
*** In the context of the film, he is largely 'Juno's son'. She gives him away at the end, certainly, but it's Juno's story, and her development, and I think we even see a tiny twinge of regret from her as the movie comes to a close. I certainly agree that he's Vanessa's son (and I certainly disagree with the ranting against her by one member above) the very instant she starts looking after him, but that doesn't at all diminish what Juno has been through and must feel.
Wilson.
24th Feb '14 6:39:34 AM Alphance
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****** I didn't even fucking imply that Juno would be a better mother! Where are you coming up with that?
23rd Feb '14 11:34:28 PM KingStatham
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***** You're the one pulling bullshit characterisation out of thin air and branding her a shrew. PROVIDE US WITH REASONS WHY JUNO WOULD BE A BETTER MOTHER.
22nd Feb '14 6:45:27 PM Alphance
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***** You're defending this shrew based on her age and apparent maturity? Give me a fucking break.
19th Feb '14 12:48:09 PM KingStatham
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** You all keep saying "Juno's son, Juno's son" He isn't Juno's son. He's Vanessa's son. Juno gave birth to him yes but as I'm sure many of us know, that does not a mother make. This isn't a case of Juno being unable to take care of her child whom she wants and Vanessa caring for him while Juno is unable to, Vanessa is adopting him which makes her just as much his mother as any adoptive parent.

to:

**** No, it really doesn't. We see from the end of the film that she is confident and mature about her break-up, and she's ready and eager and willing to be a mother. ConnorBible keeps on making Vanessa out to be some kind of monster - but what if JUNO kept the baby? Maybe she could turn into the complete monster ConnorBible makes Vanessa out to be. Vanessa is older, more mature, Juno is the immature teen who got pregnant the first time she had sex despite having her shit largely together. Who's to say that Juno couldn't turn into someone who took out ''her'' frustrations on her child, blaming it for ruining her life so early on? What makes the young teen so much ''infinitely'' more qualified than Vanessa?
** You all keep saying "Juno's son, Juno's son" He isn't Juno's son. He's Vanessa's son. Juno gave birth to him yes but as I'm sure many of us know, that does not a mother make. This isn't a case of Juno being unable to take care of her child whom she wants and Vanessa caring for him while Juno is unable to, Vanessa is adopting him which makes her just as much his mother as any adoptive parent.parent.
*** In the context of the film, he is largely 'Juno's son'. She gives him away at the end, certainly, but it's Juno's story, and her development, and I think we even see a tiny twinge of regret from her as the movie comes to a close. I certainly agree that he's Vanessa's son (and I certainly disagree with the ranting against her by one member above) the very instant she starts looking after him, but that doesn't at all diminish what Juno has been through and must feel.
11th Feb '14 11:07:35 AM bix902
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*** Excuse me... biased? How about concerned? The woman is probably still reeling from the split with Mark, and let's not forget that her job can cause stress. What if she's at work a lot? What if she takes out her frustrations on Juno's son? It just raises too many questions.

to:

*** Excuse me... biased? How about concerned? The woman is probably still reeling from the split with Mark, and let's not forget that her job can cause stress. What if she's at work a lot? What if she takes out her frustrations on Juno's son? It just raises too many questions.questions.
**You all keep saying "Juno's son, Juno's son" He isn't Juno's son. He's Vanessa's son. Juno gave birth to him yes but as I'm sure many of us know, that does not a mother make. This isn't a case of Juno being unable to take care of her child whom she wants and Vanessa caring for him while Juno is unable to, Vanessa is adopting him which makes her just as much his mother as any adoptive parent.
28th Jan '14 7:03:42 PM Alphance
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** Personally, I'd say my mom is a bit like her. She tends to be on the negative side about most things, etc., but I think I turned out pretty normal, though. Granted, unlike Juno's kid, I have a dad and I'm not adopted, but nonetheless, you don't have to be perfect to be a mom. Honestly, I think a lot of people who nitpick her character are probably at least a little biased by the fact they expected Juno to keep her baby. And I guess Juno keeping the baby is a reasonable enough direction to see things going in, as movie characters tend to change their minds at the last minute and things started going south with the adoption when Mark got cold feet, but Vanessa isn't a horrible person just because you wanted her to be.

to:

** Personally, I'd say my mom is a bit like her. She tends to be on the negative side about most things, etc., but I think I turned out pretty normal, though. Granted, unlike Juno's kid, I have a dad and I'm not adopted, but nonetheless, you don't have to be perfect to be a mom. Honestly, I think a lot of people who nitpick her character are probably at least a little biased by the fact they expected Juno to keep her baby. And I guess Juno keeping the baby is a reasonable enough direction to see things going in, as movie characters tend to change their minds at the last minute and things started going south with the adoption when Mark got cold feet, but Vanessa isn't a horrible person just because you wanted her to be.be.
*** Excuse me... biased? How about concerned? The woman is probably still reeling from the split with Mark, and let's not forget that her job can cause stress. What if she's at work a lot? What if she takes out her frustrations on Juno's son? It just raises too many questions.
28th Jan '14 6:52:53 PM Lullabee
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**** What has this woman done to you?

to:

**** What has this woman done to you?you?
** Personally, I'd say my mom is a bit like her. She tends to be on the negative side about most things, etc., but I think I turned out pretty normal, though. Granted, unlike Juno's kid, I have a dad and I'm not adopted, but nonetheless, you don't have to be perfect to be a mom. Honestly, I think a lot of people who nitpick her character are probably at least a little biased by the fact they expected Juno to keep her baby. And I guess Juno keeping the baby is a reasonable enough direction to see things going in, as movie characters tend to change their minds at the last minute and things started going south with the adoption when Mark got cold feet, but Vanessa isn't a horrible person just because you wanted her to be.
11th Dec '13 10:50:27 AM Nire
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** [[RealityIsUnrealistic There are actually parents in the world who would be pretty cool-headed about such situations.]] The ''usual'' reaction might be a negative one, but the way Juno's parents responded seemed pretty in-line with their personalities (especially since Juno ''immediately'' told them she was going to give the baby up for adoption).

to:

** [[RealityIsUnrealistic There are actually parents in the world who would be pretty cool-headed about such situations.]] The ''usual'' reaction might be a an extremely negative one, but the way Juno's parents responded seemed pretty in-line with their personalities (especially since Juno ''immediately'' told them she was going to give the baby up for adoption).
adoption). Her dad also delivers a line - saying that he thought Juno knew when to say when - that does have a noticeable hint of anger in it, so evidently while he can keep his cool he's clearly displeased.
29th Oct '13 12:04:15 PM Alphance
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*** And if she doesn't?
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.Juno