History Headscratchers / IdentityCrisis

21st Oct '16 8:22:41 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* This one is sort of minor compared to most of the others posted already, but why the hell was Kyle sitting at the League conference table at the end? He was in space at the time due to events in his own series. Now granted, his presence throughout most of the series could be explained as that he decided to come back briefly for Sue's funeral and the investigation into her death, but that still doesn't change the fact that he left the League and handed his seat to John Stewart before leaving Earth--and we saw John at the funeral, too. What, [[TheyJustDidntCare Meltzer just didn't care]]?

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* This one is sort of minor compared to most of the others posted already, but why the hell was Kyle sitting at the League conference table at the end? He was in space at the time due to events in his own series. Now granted, his presence throughout most of the series could be explained as that he decided to come back briefly for Sue's funeral and the investigation into her death, but that still doesn't change the fact that he left the League and handed his seat to John Stewart before leaving Earth--and we saw John at the funeral, too. What, [[TheyJustDidntCare Meltzer just didn't care]]?What?
26th Sep '16 8:59:08 PM TheNewBig
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* For that matter, where do they get the idea that mindwiping in this case is so immoral anyway? As I understand it, the villains abused their powers, took over the heroes's minds, learned their secrets, and were within a hair of bringing serious harm and/or their friends and families until the League stepped in. What "right" to these sadistic scumbags have to this stolen information that they ripped out of the JLA's heads to begin with? Especially considering it has one purpose, and one purpose only: Hurt them through the people they love.

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* For that matter, where do they get the idea that mindwiping in this case is so immoral anyway? As I understand it, the villains abused their powers, took over the heroes's minds, learned their secrets, and were within a hair of bringing serious harm and/or ''death'' to their friends and families until the League stepped in. What "right" to these sadistic scumbags have to this stolen information that they ripped out of the JLA's heads to begin with? Especially considering it has one purpose, and one purpose only: Hurt them through the people they love.
26th Sep '16 8:57:40 PM TheNewBig
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* For that matter, where do they get the idea that mindwiping in this case is so immoral anyway? As I understand it, the villains abused their powers, took over the heroes's minds, learned their secrets, and were within a hair of bringing serious harm and/or their friends and families until the League stepped in. What "right" to these sadistic scumbags have to this stolen information that they ripped out of the JLA's heads to begin with? Especially considering it has one purpose, and one purpose only: Hurt them through the people they love.
26th Sep '16 8:47:58 PM TheNewBig
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** While Dr. Light's crime was horrible, perhaps she just felt that the punishment was inhumane, recognizing that Dr. Light is still human and that lobotomizing him would be a huge breach of ethics, even in the treatment of a rapist. Superheroes are usually very cautious in dealing out punishment themselves as it can lead to JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope.

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** While Dr. Light's crime was horrible, perhaps she just felt that Not very. Seems to be character derailment for pretty much everyone involved, such as the punishment was inhumane, recognizing that Dr. Light is still human and that lobotomizing him would be a huge breach of ethics, even in liberal Arrow being on the treatment of a rapist. Superheroes are usually very cautious in dealing out punishment themselves as it can lead to JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope."for" side.
26th Sep '16 8:42:40 PM TheNewBig
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** Hawkman going with the vote for the double mindwipes is actually easy to explain: Since Batman was there and fought Light, if Light was just straight out killed on the satellite, then Batman would still know that Light was there earlier. And even if they got the Atom to help with a cover up, there's still the fact that Batman was still there. "What happened to Light?" "Oh, he's in jail and incidentally went straight and we'll never see him again." And of course, killing Batman was straight out never going to happen; killing a hero for trying to stop a Mind Rape, a prominent hero at that? The cabal didn't even decide to mindwipe Batman until after Zatanna prevented Light's mindwipe from being stopped and Hawkman pointed out that mindwiping Batman was the only realistic alternative possible.

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** Hawkman going with the vote for the double mindwipes is actually easy to explain: Since Batman was there and fought Light, if Light was just straight out killed on the satellite, then Batman would still know that Light was there earlier. And even if they got the Atom to help with a cover up, there's still the fact that Batman was still there. "What happened to Light?" "Oh, he's in jail and incidentally went straight and we'll never see him again." And of course, killing Batman was straight out never going to happen; killing a hero for trying to stop a Mind Rape, a prominent hero at that? The cabal didn't even decide to mindwipe Batman until after Zatanna prevented Light's mindwipe from being stopped and Hawkman pointed out that mindwiping Batman was the only realistic alternative possible.
8th Sep '16 6:59:40 AM Tron80
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*** Good points all around, but Meltzer seems to get ProtectionFromTheEditor when he writes for DC, so I think he got free reign to do whatever he wanted for the story. And what he wanted was to write about UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}}. I didn't care very much for all the focus on Green Arrow either, especially with how he comes off as an asshole at times, but it's what he wanted. I think the Silver-Age Focus got even worse with his relaunch of the Justice League.

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*** Good points all around, but Meltzer seems to get ProtectionFromTheEditor ProtectionFromEditors when he writes for DC, so I think he got free reign to do whatever he wanted for the story. And what he wanted was to write about UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}}. I didn't care very much for all the focus on Green Arrow either, especially with how he comes off as an asshole at times, but it's what he wanted. I think the Silver-Age Focus got even worse with his relaunch of the Justice League.
11th Jul '16 12:03:17 PM calli11298
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Added DiffLines:

*** It is clear that Batman's intervention was to stop them from lobotomizing Dr. Light, as they had already erased his memories of what he had done to Sue. Ollie ordered Zatanna to make Dr. Light forget what he did after he said he would brag about it to his prison buddies and do it again, and she did, but Carter decided it wasn't enough, hence the whole vote to lobotomize him. It is clear that Batman was trying to stop the lobotomy; the mindwipe was already done.
25th Dec '15 5:49:40 PM nombretomado
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*** Good points all around, but Meltzer seems to get ProtectionFromTheEditor when he writes for DC, so I think he got free reign to do whatever he wanted for the story. And what he wanted was to write about the SilverAge. I didn't care very much for all the focus on Green Arrow either, especially with how he comes off as an asshole at times, but it's what he wanted. I think the Silver-Age Focus got even worse with his relaunch of the Justice League.

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*** Good points all around, but Meltzer seems to get ProtectionFromTheEditor when he writes for DC, so I think he got free reign to do whatever he wanted for the story. And what he wanted was to write about the SilverAge.UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}}. I didn't care very much for all the focus on Green Arrow either, especially with how he comes off as an asshole at times, but it's what he wanted. I think the Silver-Age Focus got even worse with his relaunch of the Justice League.
22nd Dec '15 12:19:43 PM cdrood
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Added DiffLines:

*** Actually, it isn't. Until Jack Drake's murder there's no evidence whatsoever that anyone's identity has been compromised. Both Ralph Dibny''s and Ray Palmer's identities were public knowledge. Ray and Jean even authorized a book about their lives. It's why Dr. Light's threat after raping Sue held no water. He had no more insight into the identities of the heroes than he'd had before.
30th Oct '15 1:13:33 AM Tuomas
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* So just where do they get the idea that somehow people think the heroes didn't go around mind-wiping villains (and bystanders for that matter) who learned a hero's secret ID? Particularly that somehow Superman, one of the most common mind-wipers, was too 'moral' to go around doing it? He once wiped Lana Lang's memories for a 24hr period while in college just after she briefly found his costume in a book she'd borrowed (must have made class fun the next day when she realized she'd lost an entire day's memories). It was such a common thing for heroes to do in the Silver Age that Green Lantern once complained to the Flash how overdone it was when Major Disaster revealed their secret ID to their girlfriends (he wasn't above leaving out that bit though when a convenient memory loss for everyone in the area due to the villain's actions required him to use his ring to restore their memories). If there was something Super-heroes weren't above doing in the Silver Age it was mind-wiping people including loved ones to hide their or someone else's secret ID. They only became moral enough to stop doing that AFTER the original Crisis.

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* So just where do they get the idea that somehow people think the heroes didn't go around mind-wiping villains (and bystanders for that matter) who learned a hero's secret ID? Particularly that somehow Superman, one of the most common mind-wipers, was too 'moral' to go around doing it? He once wiped Lana Lang's memories for a 24hr period while in college just after she briefly found his costume in a book she'd borrowed (must have made class fun the next day when she realized she'd lost an entire day's memories). It was such a common thing for heroes to do in the Silver Age that Green Lantern once complained to the Flash how overdone it was when Major Disaster revealed their secret ID to their girlfriends (he wasn't above leaving out that bit though when a convenient memory loss for everyone in the area due to the villain's actions required him to use his ring to restore their memories). If there was something Super-heroes weren't above doing in the Silver Age it was mind-wiping people including loved ones to hide their or someone else's secret ID. They only became moral enough to stop doing that AFTER the original Crisis.Crisis.
** The Crisis made some big retroactive changes to the pasts of most superheroes, particularly Superman. Post-Crisis, most of the things he was shown to do in Silver Age never happened, so presumably that applies to various cases of mindwiping too.

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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.IdentityCrisis