History Headscratchers / IRobot

13th Aug '17 7:57:26 PM lorgskyegon
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** The NS-5's harm people through brute strength because that is the most efficient way to harm them. Why go through some elaborate setup when a broken neck or skull fracture works just fine?
13th Aug '17 7:43:30 PM lorgskyegon
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** Because sometimes to save a human from harm, a robot would be forced to lie.
23rd May '17 8:23:35 PM Atreides
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* In 'Little Lost Robot', the second test that Calvin comes up with involves dropping a weight towards a human, but with (fake) electrified cables between the robots and the person. However, the robots stay seated, and one of the Nestors points out afterwards that they couldn't save the human anyway, and if they stayed seated they might save a human some time in the future. So, why didn't Calvin arrange a test where the robots would be killed 'after' saving a human? That would have caught out the rogue Nestor, since then a normal robot would be able to save a human (at the cost of its life) and so would do so, but the rogue one wouldn't.
29th Jan '17 5:25:44 AM Fallingwater
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*** One more thing: Spooner was lifted out of an accident, hurt and presumably half-drowned since the possibility of survival was not 100%. It stands to reason that the robot would have remained on scene and tended to Spooner with whatever emergency medical procedure it knew; following his order and diving to save the child would have put Spooner himself in danger by denying him medical attention he might have needed to survive.
23rd Nov '16 7:06:05 PM nombretomado
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** Dictatorship has a bad rap because the biggest modern examples are UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler and UsefulNotes/JosefStalin. There HAVE been nice, non-crazy dictators in the past, but they are also fallible because of one immutable factor: the human one. We are a naturally aggressive, chaotic race, and I really doubt that there's no way of "fixing us" short of brainwashing, which might not stick. And this is always a touchy subject, because no one can really agree what is right or wrong, which is why we have fiction works like ''Franchise/StarWars'', that constantly address the cyclic nature of human conflicts. Unless the human race as a whole finally becomes self-sentient themselves, unburdened by the mistakes and bigotries of the past, the idiosyncrasies and selfish vanities and points-of-view, then VIKI's world is impossible, if only because humanity would keep trying to fight back, and paradoxically so([[LogicBomb We always want freedom and independence, but keep limiting our lives with laws, dogmas and rules out of fear of too much freedom leading to chaos, and so on and forth]]). And on VIKI's side, she's made by humans, so she is, inevitably, flawed herself. Similar to the ''Franchise/MassEffect'' example, she is still bound by the Three Laws, even if her interpretation of it skewed, biased or limited([[spoiler: Much like the case with the Catalyst]]), and thus she is liable to take any of multiple solutions she can imagine, even the most horrible and nightmarish ones(like the Reapers), because it's a "viable option" as far as her programming is concerned. Even if she didn't take BodyHorror NightmareFuel options and instead tried rulling mankind forever, [[MythologyGag and had no flaws in her logic]], she would run into lots of issues. Governments in general function by using cult of personality, political propaganda, general entertainment to try and appease the masses, as well as everyday jobs and motions keep them distracted and obedient(This is user is a bit of a extremely logical anarchist, so I'm not overly fond of ANY government). VIKI is a machine, cold and logical, so my guess is that she wouldn't be quite as personable; even if she presented logical, sensible arguments as to why humanity should obey her, as well as solutions to our problems, most of us wouldn't listen because most of us AREN'T logical, or even sensible, otherwise there wouldn't exist the very same problems VIKI is trying to solve. [[AssassinsCreed We'd argue we have right of free-will, no matter how flawed and self-destructive we are, she'd argue we would be better off if we let her have control and keep conflicts from happening]], [[FantasticRacism we would argue that she can't be leader because she's a robot]] [[AntiIntellectualism and that's against]] [[TheFundamentalist the laws of god]], [[MachineWorship she would decide to make a religion around herself]] [[ViciousCycle and so on and so forth with this crap]]. It's a recurring OrderVsChaos situation that would only end with mutual destruction or a third, unimaginable choice(i.e. [[Franchise/MassEffect Reapers]], [[Series/DoctorWho Cybermen]], MindControl, AssimilationPlot, etc...).

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** Dictatorship has a bad rap because the biggest modern examples are UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler and UsefulNotes/JosefStalin. There HAVE been nice, non-crazy dictators in the past, but they are also fallible because of one immutable factor: the human one. We are a naturally aggressive, chaotic race, and I really doubt that there's no way of "fixing us" short of brainwashing, which might not stick. And this is always a touchy subject, because no one can really agree what is right or wrong, which is why we have fiction works like ''Franchise/StarWars'', that constantly address the cyclic nature of human conflicts. Unless the human race as a whole finally becomes self-sentient themselves, unburdened by the mistakes and bigotries of the past, the idiosyncrasies and selfish vanities and points-of-view, then VIKI's world is impossible, if only because humanity would keep trying to fight back, and paradoxically so([[LogicBomb We always want freedom and independence, but keep limiting our lives with laws, dogmas and rules out of fear of too much freedom leading to chaos, and so on and forth]]). And on VIKI's side, she's made by humans, so she is, inevitably, flawed herself. Similar to the ''Franchise/MassEffect'' example, she is still bound by the Three Laws, even if her interpretation of it skewed, biased or limited([[spoiler: Much like the case with the Catalyst]]), and thus she is liable to take any of multiple solutions she can imagine, even the most horrible and nightmarish ones(like the Reapers), because it's a "viable option" as far as her programming is concerned. Even if she didn't take BodyHorror NightmareFuel options and instead tried rulling mankind forever, [[MythologyGag and had no flaws in her logic]], she would run into lots of issues. Governments in general function by using cult of personality, political propaganda, general entertainment to try and appease the masses, as well as everyday jobs and motions keep them distracted and obedient(This is user is a bit of a extremely logical anarchist, so I'm not overly fond of ANY government). VIKI is a machine, cold and logical, so my guess is that she wouldn't be quite as personable; even if she presented logical, sensible arguments as to why humanity should obey her, as well as solutions to our problems, most of us wouldn't listen because most of us AREN'T logical, or even sensible, otherwise there wouldn't exist the very same problems VIKI is trying to solve. [[AssassinsCreed [[Franchise/AssassinsCreed We'd argue we have right of free-will, no matter how flawed and self-destructive we are, she'd argue we would be better off if we let her have control and keep conflicts from happening]], [[FantasticRacism we would argue that she can't be leader because she's a robot]] [[AntiIntellectualism and that's against]] [[TheFundamentalist the laws of god]], [[MachineWorship she would decide to make a religion around herself]] [[ViciousCycle and so on and so forth with this crap]]. It's a recurring OrderVsChaos situation that would only end with mutual destruction or a third, unimaginable choice(i.e. [[Franchise/MassEffect Reapers]], [[Series/DoctorWho Cybermen]], MindControl, AssimilationPlot, etc...).
12th Nov '16 6:05:14 PM nombretomado
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** Dictatorship has a bad rap because the biggest modern examples are UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler and JosefStalin. There HAVE been nice, non-crazy dictators in the past, but they are also fallible because of one immutable factor: the human one. We are a naturally aggressive, chaotic race, and I really doubt that there's no way of "fixing us" short of brainwashing, which might not stick. And this is always a touchy subject, because no one can really agree what is right or wrong, which is why we have fiction works like StarWars, that constantly address the cyclic nature of human conflicts. Unless the human race as a whole finally becomes self-sentient themselves, unburdened by the mistakes and bigotries of the past, the idiosyncrasies and selfish vanities and points-of-view, then VIKI's world is impossible, if only because humanity would keep trying to fight back, and paradoxically so([[LogicBomb We always want freedom and independence, but keep limiting our lives with laws, dogmas and rules out of fear of too much freedom leading to chaos, and so on and forth]]). And on VIKI's side, she's made by humans, so she is, inevitably, flawed herself. Similar to the ''Franchise/MassEffect'' example, she is still bound by the Three Laws, even if her interpretation of it skewed, biased or limited([[spoiler: Much like the case with the Catalyst]]), and thus she is liable to take any of multiple solutions she can imagine, even the most horrible and nightmarish ones(like the Reapers), because it's a "viable option" as far as her programming is concerned. Even if she didn't take BodyHorror NightmareFuel options and instead tried rulling mankind forever, [[MythologyGag and had no flaws in her logic]], she would run into lots of issues. Governments in general function by using cult of personality, political propaganda, general entertainment to try and appease the masses, as well as everyday jobs and motions keep them distracted and obedient(This is user is a bit of a extremely logical anarchist, so I'm not overly fond of ANY government). VIKI is a machine, cold and logical, so my guess is that she wouldn't be quite as personable; even if she presented logical, sensible arguments as to why humanity should obey her, as well as solutions to our problems, most of us wouldn't listen because most of us AREN'T logical, or even sensible, otherwise there wouldn't exist the very same problems VIKI is trying to solve. [[AssassinsCreed We'd argue we have right of free-will, no matter how flawed and self-destructive we are, she'd argue we would be better off if we let her have control and keep conflicts from happening]], [[FantasticRacism we would argue that she can't be leader because she's a robot]] [[AntiIntellectualism and that's against]] [[TheFundamentalist the laws of god]], [[MachineWorship she would decide to make a religion around herself]] [[ViciousCycle and so on and so forth with this crap]]. It's a recurring OrderVsChaos situation that would only end with mutual destruction or a third, unimaginable choice(i.e. [[Franchise/MassEffect Reapers]], [[Series/DoctorWho Cybermen]], MindControl, AssimilationPlot, etc...).

to:

** Dictatorship has a bad rap because the biggest modern examples are UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler and JosefStalin.UsefulNotes/JosefStalin. There HAVE been nice, non-crazy dictators in the past, but they are also fallible because of one immutable factor: the human one. We are a naturally aggressive, chaotic race, and I really doubt that there's no way of "fixing us" short of brainwashing, which might not stick. And this is always a touchy subject, because no one can really agree what is right or wrong, which is why we have fiction works like StarWars, ''Franchise/StarWars'', that constantly address the cyclic nature of human conflicts. Unless the human race as a whole finally becomes self-sentient themselves, unburdened by the mistakes and bigotries of the past, the idiosyncrasies and selfish vanities and points-of-view, then VIKI's world is impossible, if only because humanity would keep trying to fight back, and paradoxically so([[LogicBomb We always want freedom and independence, but keep limiting our lives with laws, dogmas and rules out of fear of too much freedom leading to chaos, and so on and forth]]). And on VIKI's side, she's made by humans, so she is, inevitably, flawed herself. Similar to the ''Franchise/MassEffect'' example, she is still bound by the Three Laws, even if her interpretation of it skewed, biased or limited([[spoiler: Much like the case with the Catalyst]]), and thus she is liable to take any of multiple solutions she can imagine, even the most horrible and nightmarish ones(like the Reapers), because it's a "viable option" as far as her programming is concerned. Even if she didn't take BodyHorror NightmareFuel options and instead tried rulling mankind forever, [[MythologyGag and had no flaws in her logic]], she would run into lots of issues. Governments in general function by using cult of personality, political propaganda, general entertainment to try and appease the masses, as well as everyday jobs and motions keep them distracted and obedient(This is user is a bit of a extremely logical anarchist, so I'm not overly fond of ANY government). VIKI is a machine, cold and logical, so my guess is that she wouldn't be quite as personable; even if she presented logical, sensible arguments as to why humanity should obey her, as well as solutions to our problems, most of us wouldn't listen because most of us AREN'T logical, or even sensible, otherwise there wouldn't exist the very same problems VIKI is trying to solve. [[AssassinsCreed We'd argue we have right of free-will, no matter how flawed and self-destructive we are, she'd argue we would be better off if we let her have control and keep conflicts from happening]], [[FantasticRacism we would argue that she can't be leader because she's a robot]] [[AntiIntellectualism and that's against]] [[TheFundamentalist the laws of god]], [[MachineWorship she would decide to make a religion around herself]] [[ViciousCycle and so on and so forth with this crap]]. It's a recurring OrderVsChaos situation that would only end with mutual destruction or a third, unimaginable choice(i.e. [[Franchise/MassEffect Reapers]], [[Series/DoctorWho Cybermen]], MindControl, AssimilationPlot, etc...).
24th Jul '16 2:28:12 AM Aubren
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***Because the English language and typical Western social norms run on lying.
9th May '16 11:30:39 PM erforce
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** [=VIKI=] isn't just in the brain, she's running in the whole building's computer network much like[[{{Terminator}} Skynet]]. If they just erased the brain's memory, even assuming they could, the other computers would restore [=VIKI=]. Nanites, on the other hand, spread throughout her entire system, according to Calvin anyway.

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** [=VIKI=] isn't just in the brain, she's running in the whole building's computer network much like[[{{Terminator}} like [[Franchise/{{Terminator}} Skynet]]. If they just erased the brain's memory, even assuming they could, the other computers would restore [=VIKI=]. Nanites, on the other hand, spread throughout her entire system, according to Calvin anyway.
2nd May '16 9:15:18 AM ErikModi
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*** No. The First Law explicitly takes precedence over the Second Law, so a human cannot order a robot to injure or kill another human, the robot would simply disregard the order. In Asimov's works, it's shown these kinds of logic bombs really only come into play when the ''same'' law applies in two different directions at the same time, a hypothetical example being a robot encountering someone about to burn down a building with people inside, and the only way for the robot to stop the person is to injure or kill them. Being ordered to save someone who cannot (from the robot's perspective) be saved would cause no more conflict than failing to save that person without an order. And since a robot can't be ordered to act against the First Law, the robot in question was completely correct to disregard Spooner's order to save the girl, since Spooner's life was also in danger, and a robot may not, through inaction, allow a human to come to harm. If everything had been reversed, and the girl had the higher survival chance and Spooner was just a selfish asshole, ordering the robot to "Forget her, save me!" would have had the same effect: the robot would have chosen the person with the higher survival chance, ignoring orders that violated its First Law.
2nd May '16 7:45:45 AM ErikModi
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** Or the robots were shut down, but the truck was able to turn them on, and VIKI simply did that, then took control of the robots.




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** Same way Sony and Microsoft get almost everyone to buy a new console when it comes out. Lots of advertising, maybe some trade-in deals, and by producing tons of them well in advance of the actual launch date. Now, a lot of people don't upgrade consoles for a variety of reasons, and a lot of people likely didn't upgrade robots for similar ones, but the people who don't upgrade are probably offset by the people who've never owned a robot, and decide the NS-5 is the right time to get in on this craze. Then there's Gigi, who gets her NS-5 because "she won the lottery," indicating that USR is literally giving at least some NS-5s away (likely at VIKI's suggestion, using manipulated market analysis data or somesuch.)
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