History Headscratchers / HowlsMovingCastle

10th Jun '17 5:53:57 PM Hong00
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*** 2) He used his knowledge of the 'normal world' technology and science to appear much more knowledgeable and powerful. If, say, he brought a flashlight one day, villagers would be amazed at his ability to produce light without fire. He would return the objects to their rightful place, of course, and never bring anything TOO impressive like, say, a TV. Just enough to do the trick and establish him as an amazing wizard.

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*** 2) He As for making a name for himself as a (or multiple) wizard(s), he used his knowledge of the 'normal world' technology and science to appear much more knowledgeable and powerful. If, say, he brought a flashlight one day, villagers would be amazed at his ability to produce light without fire. He would return the objects to their rightful place, of course, and never bring anything TOO impressive like, say, a TV. Just enough to do the trick and establish him as an amazing wizard. Of course, this is more WMG than anything.
10th Jun '17 5:51:40 PM Hong00
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\n** This troper was asking tropeself the same questions and came to two theories:
*** 1) It is mentioned that he had an exceptional talent for magic so it's not too far off to think that he may have learned a spell to either manipulate time in one or both worlds (albeit for short periods of time, say, three hours, tops) so his schedule would not be so constricted; or a spell that made him twice as fast so he could, for example, study for a university test, learn a new spell and still have time for rugby practice.
*** 2) He used his knowledge of the 'normal world' technology and science to appear much more knowledgeable and powerful. If, say, he brought a flashlight one day, villagers would be amazed at his ability to produce light without fire. He would return the objects to their rightful place, of course, and never bring anything TOO impressive like, say, a TV. Just enough to do the trick and establish him as an amazing wizard.
*** Alternatively, there could be some Narnia Time going on (this theory is far, *far* less plausible, but bear with me) only in a smaller scale, as in, one hour in Ingary could be equivalent of, say, twenty minutes in Wales. It would be a small enough difference to not be noticed, given that he only took Sophie and Michael to visit for about half an hour, but in a day to day scale it could mean that if Howl had a university assignment to finish in three hours, he could take it back to Ingary and he'd have about *9 hours* to do it.
10th Jun '17 5:33:05 PM Hong00
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** If it weren't for facial expressions and vocal intonations, I would ask when he fell in love with her in the movie as well. ** But as far as the book goes, it's more of a gradual thing. Even at the end of the book, neither is willing to come forward with an 'I love you', but more of a 'We could manage with this arrangement.' Sophie's original opinion of Howl really hasn't changed, she still sees, and he still is, a cowardly, selfish, vain little peacock who will squirm out of or away from any little bit of unpleasantness that floats his way. But she's also come to see that he's kind, thoughtful, patient, loyal, protective and incredibly enough ~will~ step up to the plate when he sees it as something of an 'only' option. ** As for Howl falling in love with Sophie, I would say it worked in much the same way, though we obviously get far less of his POV, pretty much none of it in fact. So I would base his coming to love her on my own sense of coming to know her. She begins demure and resigned, to life, to the spell, only leaving because "it was best just to go." What frustration she expresses goes into cleaning, but even here her considerate nature already shows through to Howl when she follows his request that she not harm a single spider. No doubt, if only some time after the fact, he's quite appreciative of her ability to deal with his tantrum and her willingness to talk to him about it after. Sophie seems to become accepting of her state as time progresses, though not resigned, and having discarded most of her frustration, brings a kind, homey atmosphere to the castle. I looked back at Howl's actions retrospectively when I was finished. I think the best way to see Howl's growing love is through some of his seemingly selfish acts. After all, Howl himself says "Only way I can do something this frightening is to tell myself I'm ~not~ doing it!". Love is a very frightening thing, especially for Howl. He admires her dealings with Calcifer. He practically apologizes to Sophie, much as he's able, about the scare crow, not because he was personally afraid of it, but he understood that/why she was and didn't like her being upset, granted by reproaching himself, rather than an actual apology. The bit where he took her to Pentstemmon in the hopes of help with the curse, albeit by lying through his teeth. His inviting her to Wales ~ 50/50, true for the curiosity part, but he didn't really have to introduce her to family or the whole nine yards. Can't forget his concern over pleasing Sophie when it comes to the house change, or the shop, even if cowardice is his rooting drive. Of course when he goes and invites her whole family to come and visit in an effort to 'keep her quiet for once, aka, please her. And if you go for a second read, he can see his increasing interest in her in general. Not through typical 'how are you today' fashion, but by questioning her, picking at her, trying to figure out what makes her tick, and just showing an overall interest deeper than he would likely ever attempt with someone who is/was simply beautiful to look at, as seems to be his prior inclination. *** Tack on my previous third bullet above this massive text-block.

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** If it weren't for facial expressions and vocal intonations, I one would ask when he fell in love with her in the movie as well. ** But as far as the book goes, it's more of a gradual thing. Even at the end of the book, neither is willing to come forward with an 'I love you', but more of a 'We could manage with this arrangement.' Sophie's original opinion of Howl really hasn't changed, she still sees, and he still is, a cowardly, selfish, vain little peacock who will squirm out of or away from any little bit of unpleasantness that floats his way. But she's also come to see that he's kind, thoughtful, patient, loyal, protective and incredibly enough ~will~ step up to the plate when he sees it as something of an 'only' option. **
***
As for Howl falling in love with Sophie, I would say it could be said it worked in much the same way, though we obviously get far less of his POV, pretty much none of it in fact. So I this troper would base his coming to love her on my own in the sense of coming to know her. She begins demure and resigned, to life, to the spell, only leaving because "it was best just to go." What frustration she expresses goes into cleaning, but even here her considerate nature already shows through to Howl when she follows his request that she not harm a single spider. No doubt, if only some time after the fact, he's quite appreciative of her ability to deal with his tantrum and her willingness to talk to him about it after. Sophie seems to become accepting of her state as time progresses, though not resigned, and having discarded most of her frustration, brings a kind, homey atmosphere to the castle. I looked Looking back at Howl's actions retrospectively when I was finished. I think retrospectively, the best way to see Howl's growing love is through some of his seemingly selfish acts. After all, Howl himself says "Only way I can do something this frightening is to tell myself I'm ~not~ doing it!". Love is a very frightening thing, especially for Howl. He admires her dealings with Calcifer. He practically apologizes to Sophie, much as he's able, about the scare crow, not because he was personally afraid of it, but he understood that/why she was and didn't like her being upset, granted by reproaching himself, rather than an actual apology. The bit where he took her to Pentstemmon in the hopes of help with the curse, albeit by lying through his teeth. His inviting her to Wales ~ 50/50, true for the curiosity part, but he didn't really have to introduce her to family or the whole nine yards. Can't forget his concern over pleasing Sophie when it comes to the house change, or the shop, even if cowardice is his rooting drive. Of course when he goes and invites her whole family to come and visit in an effort to 'keep her quiet for once, once', aka, please her. And if you go for During a second read, he can see reading, his increasing interest in her in general.general can be seen more clearly. Not through typical 'how are you today' fashion, but by questioning her, picking at her, trying to figure out what makes her tick, and just showing an overall interest deeper than he would likely ever attempt with someone who is/was simply beautiful to look at, as seems to be his prior inclination. *** Tack on my previous third bullet above this massive text-block.\n
10th Jun '17 5:26:08 PM Hong00
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*** I personally disagree, I don't think Howl was ever anything but attracted to a pretty face, and would only fancy himself in love on the 'want what you don't have' cliché. As for Lettie, he really was courting her, at first, it was only after he became intrigued by Sophie's spell that his attentions moved on to information about Sophie. And really, Howl was ever after the challenge of the thing. He came to admire much more about Sophie, but it was the spell and her own magic, and the way everything was all mixed up that initially drew him to her. I've got rather more in the massive semi-novel below as well. >..<

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*** I personally disagree, I don't think Another theory could be that Howl was ever anything but attracted to a pretty face, and would only fancy himself in love on the 'want what you don't have' cliché.cliche;. As for Lettie, he really was courting her, at first, it was only after he became intrigued by Sophie's spell that his attentions moved on to information about Sophie. And really, Howl was only ever after the challenge of the thing. He came to admire much more about Sophie, but it was the spell and her own magic, and the way everything was all mixed up that initially drew him to her. I've got rather more in the massive semi-novel below as well. >..<
16th May '17 10:44:35 AM pearlyglasses
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** Basically, just as he admitted himself, Howl's a coward. He didn't ever want to have to face the Witch of the Waste so he hoped that Ben could do it for him. Ben /was/ the Royal Magician after all, it was originally his job to deal with the witch. Howl knew the witch had cast a curse after him so he'd been doing everything in his power just to keep as far away from her as possible. To him, facing her head on would be equal to suicide (after he survived their fight at Porthaven he was so scared he even risked dying just so he could move Calcifer and avoid her again). However, he did intend to rescue the prince and he thinks the only way he could get to him was by using the curse to get to the witch. I think his original plan was just a rescue mission for the prince - one in which he planned to avoid the witch as best he could given the circumstances with Ben's help. I think Howl assumed Ben was just in some sort of bind and would still be able to deal with the witch if he could just help him out a bit. However, things didn't go as he had hoped. Turns out, Ben wouldn't be able to help him out at all - at the very least, he won't even be able to serve as backup or diversion. He'll actually have to face the witch ON HIS OWN (and put the people he cares about at a greater risk)! He was so scared he had to go out and get drunk.

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** Basically, just as he admitted himself, Howl's a coward. He didn't ever want to have to face the Witch of the Waste so he hoped that Ben could do it for him. Ben /was/ the Royal Magician after all, it was originally his job to deal with the witch. Howl knew the witch had cast a curse after him so he'd been doing everything in his power just to keep as far away from her as possible. To him, facing her head on would be equal to suicide (after he survived their He did fight her once at Porthaven but he was so scared afterwards that he even risked dying by moving Calcifer just so he could move Calcifer and avoid her again).again. However, he did intend to rescue the prince and he thinks the only way he could get to him was by using the curse to get to the witch. I think his original plan was just a rescue mission for the prince - one in which he originally planned to avoid save Prince Justin while avoiding the witch as best he could given the circumstances with Ben's Ben Sullivan's help. I think Howl probably assumed Ben was just in some sort of bind and would still be able to deal with the witch if he could just help him out a bit. However, things didn't go as he had hoped. Turns out, Ben wouldn't be able to help him out at all - at the very least, he won't even be able to serve as backup or diversion. He'll actually have to face the witch ON HIS OWN (and put OWN, putting not only himself, but the people he cares about at a greater risk)! risk! He was so scared he had to go out and get drunk.
15th May '17 10:37:08 AM pearlyglasses
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to:

** Basically, just as he admitted himself, Howl's a coward. He didn't ever want to have to face the Witch of the Waste so he hoped that Ben could do it for him. Ben /was/ the Royal Magician after all, it was originally his job to deal with the witch. Howl knew the witch had cast a curse after him so he'd been doing everything in his power just to keep as far away from her as possible. To him, facing her head on would be equal to suicide (after he survived their fight at Porthaven he was so scared he even risked dying just so he could move Calcifer and avoid her again). However, he did intend to rescue the prince and he thinks the only way he could get to him was by using the curse to get to the witch. I think his original plan was just a rescue mission for the prince - one in which he planned to avoid the witch as best he could given the circumstances with Ben's help. I think Howl assumed Ben was just in some sort of bind and would still be able to deal with the witch if he could just help him out a bit. However, things didn't go as he had hoped. Turns out, Ben wouldn't be able to help him out at all - at the very least, he won't even be able to serve as backup or diversion. He'll actually have to face the witch ON HIS OWN (and put the people he cares about at a greater risk)! He was so scared he had to go out and get drunk.
15th May '17 8:14:44 AM pearlyglasses
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* Did Howl actually write a doctoral thesis on spells and charms in Wales or was that just something he said to Miss Angorian in reference to being Mrs. Pentstemmon's pupil? I'm not really sure about the details, but shouldn't it take around 3-4 years or more to complete a doctorate degree? However, Howl is only 27 years old (10,000 days old by midsummer) when the story takes place. I am assuming (please correct me if I'm wrong) he took a bachelor's degree first, which would typically take 4 years. Add another year or two to complete a master's degree and then another three to four years to finish a doctorate degree. That would make him already around 26 or 27 years old by the time he completes his doctorate degree, right? Unless my assumptions about how post grad education works is wrong, of course - can one take a master's degree right out of high school? Anyways, it doesn't seem to add up since in the book, Calcifer said that Howl set up shop as Jenkin the Sorcerer in Porthaven five years before the story starts, so Howl was only 22 then. Another thing that's been bothering me is that Mrs. Pentstemmon only stopped teaching three years before the story takes place. Since Howl was her last pupil, it means she was teaching him until three years ago, which is weird because it means he has already made a contract with Calcifer and was also set up as a professional sorcerer while he was under Mrs. Pentstemmon's tutelage. It gets even weirder because if he set up as Sorcerer Jenkin when he was 22, that means he'd already learned magic before that point. So he either learned magic through his studies at the university back in Wales or Howl came to Ingary and became Mrs. Pentstemmon's pupil a few years before he turned 22 years old. Can someone please clarify these things?

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* Did Howl actually write a doctoral thesis on spells and charms in Wales or [edit: question deleted] Never mind, I think I sort of figured it out. I was that just something he said to Miss Angorian in reference to being Mrs. Pentstemmon's pupil? I'm not really sure about the details, but shouldn't it take around 3-4 years or more to complete a doctorate degree? However, Howl is only 27 years old (10,000 days old by midsummer) when the story takes place. I am assuming (please correct me if I'm wrong) he took a bachelor's degree first, which would typically take 4 years. Add another year or two to complete a master's degree and then another three to four years to finish a doctorate degree. That would make him already around 26 or 27 years old by the time he completes his doctorate degree, right? Unless my assumptions initially confused about how post grad education works is wrong, of course - can one take a master's degree right out of high school? Anyways, it doesn't seem Howl would be able to add up since in go juggle university life, rugby, magic lessons and later on making a name for himself as two separate magicians all at the book, same time but here's how I think events panned out: Howl met Calcifer said that Howl and set up shop as Jenkin the Sorcerer in Porthaven five years before he met Sophie (so he was 21 at the story starts, so Howl time). It was only 22 then. Another thing that's been bothering me is that never mentioned exactly when he arrived in Ingary, but we can assume it happened much earlier since he had to study magic under Mrs. Pentstemmon only stopped teaching three years before the story takes place. first. Since Howl was her last pupil, it means she was teaching him until three years ago, which is weird because it means he has already made a contract with Calcifer then, he'd been going back and forth between worlds a lot. His magic lessons could have influenced his degree of choice in Wales and he would have likely used some of the things he'd learned from Mrs. Pentstemmon for his doctoral thesis and vice versa. He was also winger for his Rugby team during his stay at his university. Two years after Howl set up shop, Mrs. Pentstemmon retires as a professional sorcerer Sorceress, and finally Howl would have finished his doctorate degree just around the time he met the Witch of the Waste, and right before he meets Sophie. Let's not forget the fact that while he was under Mrs. Pentstemmon's tutelage. It gets even weirder because if he set up as Sorcerer Jenkin when he was 22, that means he'd already learned magic before that point. So he either learned magic through his studies at the going to university back and finishing his doctoral thesis in Wales or Wales, he was also busy making a name for himself as both Jenkin the Sorcerer and Wizard Pendragon in Kingsburry! Howl came to Ingary and became Mrs. Pentstemmon's pupil was either a few years before time management god or he turned 22 years old. Can someone please clarify these things?
was using kage bunshin without anyone knowing.

18th Mar '17 8:06:13 AM ilweran
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** I've been making little book references anyhow, so I thought I would aside, that in the book, Howl is actually Howell Jenkins, from our own world's Wales, England, in approximately 1960s-80s (they have computers with word based video games). He grew up, with magic he had to hide, and actually went all the way through a Doctorate at University, before finding his way to Ingary, where he took up true study of magic (likely majoring in anthropology with a focus on 'magic', his doctoral thesis was on charms and spells). In the book, the black door takes him back to Wales, where his sister's family lives. So it's sort of his past, in that he came from there. He does make mention that he could visit any time in his personal past if he really wanted to though, even his own christening.

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** I've been making little book references anyhow, so I thought I would aside, that in the book, Howl is actually Howell Jenkins, from our own world's Wales, England, UK, in approximately 1960s-80s (they have computers with word based video games). He grew up, with magic he had to hide, and actually went all the way through a Doctorate at University, before finding his way to Ingary, where he took up true study of magic (likely majoring in anthropology with a focus on 'magic', his doctoral thesis was on charms and spells). In the book, the black door takes him back to Wales, where his sister's family lives. So it's sort of his past, in that he came from there. He does make mention that he could visit any time in his personal past if he really wanted to though, even his own christening.
28th Nov '16 9:29:30 AM pearlyglasses
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*** True, but in the movie, Turnip Head being the Prince was definitely an AssPull. That one bit of dialog hinting at the lost Prince being the cause of the war was different in the original Japanese version. The three men were just talking about how the war was "going to be terrible". They just added that tiny bit of Foreshadowing in the English dub.

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*** True, but in the movie, Turnip Head being the Prince was definitely an AssPull. That one bit of dialog hinting at the lost Prince being the cause of the war was different in the original Japanese version. The three men were just talking about how the war was "going to be terrible". They just added that tiny bit of Foreshadowing ForeShadowing in the English dub.
28th Nov '16 9:22:02 AM pearlyglasses
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*** True, but in the movie, Turnip Head being the Prince was definitely an AssPull. That one bit of dialog hinting at the lost Prince being the cause of the war was different in the original Japanese version. The three men were just talking about how the war was "going to be terrible". They just added that hint in the English dub.

to:

*** True, but in the movie, Turnip Head being the Prince was definitely an AssPull. That one bit of dialog hinting at the lost Prince being the cause of the war was different in the original Japanese version. The three men were just talking about how the war was "going to be terrible". They just added that hint tiny bit of Foreshadowing in the English dub.
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