History Headscratchers / Holes

16th Jun '16 1:25:26 PM Serasia
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**** I just checked Trivia. A man named Richard Kelly was going to be the one to handle the movie's script but he made a metric ton of bizarre changes so the script writer was changed.
31st May '16 9:00:07 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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*** Whoa, whoa, sorry, what are you talking about? What is all of this? What script?
25th May '16 5:20:26 AM Laina
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** Okay, watching the movie right now. The grandfather says, "We'e going to need a damn good lawyer." The father says, "We can't afford a lawyer." The mother says, "We don't need a lawyer; we'll just tell the truth." During the arrect scene, we actually never see Stanley being read his Miranda rights. And the judge seems very, very quick to suggest Camp Green Lake - you know what also? This actually seems more like a plea bargain than a straight up conviction. Stanley isn't sentences to Green Lae, he's coerced to agree. Seems like some shady stuff going on in general.

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** Okay, watching the movie right now. The grandfather says, "We'e going to need a damn good lawyer." The father says, "We can't afford a lawyer." The mother says, "We don't need a lawyer; we'll just tell the truth." During "
** In addition, during
the arrect scene, we actually never see Stanley being read his Miranda rights. And the judge seems very, very quick to suggest Camp Green Lake - you know what also? This actually seems more like a plea bargain than a straight up conviction. Stanley isn't sentences to Green Lae, Lake, he's coerced to agree. Seems like some shady stuff going on in general.
general. Perhaps it's not a stretch to say the Yelnats assumed they would have to pay for a lawyer, and were not informed of available free ones because of a corrupted system.
25th May '16 5:18:16 AM Laina
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** Okay, watching the movie right now. The grandfather says, "We'e going to need a damn good lawyer." The father says, "We can't afford a lawyer." The mother says, "We don't need a lawyer; we'll just tell the truth." During the arrect scene, we actually never see Stanley being read his Miranda rights. And the judge seems very, very quick to suggest Camp Green Lake - you know what also? This actually seems more like a plea bargain than a straight up conviction. Stanley isn't sentences to Green Lae, he's coerced to agree. Seems like some shady stuff going on in general.
23rd May '16 4:16:48 AM Laina
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[[folder:Richard Kelly script]]

* What was he thinking with this thing? He changes Stanley's name to Stanley Kramer, makes the Warden a man, apparently there was some big nuclear weapon blast, they dug up dozens of human bones from the lake including Pendanski's dead wife, Stanley has a sister. He got rid of the family name altogether, naming his father Joe Kramer, and killing him and - seriously this troper is still stuck on the whole "nuclear weapon" thing. What about Holes says nuclear weapon?
** Okay, more things - there is a ton of God talk. Ampit is deeply religious and the Warden seems to be as well. Months pass. There's a narrator I can't tell who it is. Maybe Zero? Stanley becomes fastest digger at Camp Green Lake. The boys leave at one point because apparently it's a thing to sneak out on the supply truck, and like four of them go to a bar. Oh my god they're getting drunk, this troper is not okay. Oh my god Zero just said he's not a virgin, and Pendanski is hiring sex workers. There is a sex scene. That's - that's not what the title meant by "Holes".
** Zero killed someone. I repeat, Zero killed someone in self-defense. Stanley did something, too, but it hasn't said what yet. Camp Green Lake is run by the military. Instead of finding Kate's lipstick tube, they find a metal hammer-looking thing, and then eventually hit a gas tank of what used to be a gas station. They are burying Theo alive right now - and they just shot him! I think Stanley killed his sister, who was sick with... radiation poisoning?
** Now they're in a buried underground parking garage. This is kind of confusing actually. X-Ray might be dying. Stanley totally mercy killed his sister. X-Ray just died. Apparently the thing Stanley found started the war. The Warden was the reason Stanley went to Camp Green Lake. They throw the thingies in the ocean and it ends.
** There's no curse, no flashbacks, no Kate. I have never been so confused.
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19th May '16 11:30:21 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** The overarching reason Pendanski is nice[r than the others] to the kids is to try and motivate them to dig more. Not only does Zero already dig his hole faithfully whether Pendanski's nice to him or not, but he's also practically an orphan who the higher-ups all think could be kept indefinitely at Camp Green Lake without anyone caring, so Pendanski doesn't see a reason to put any effort into being anything beyond passive-aggressive, at best.
4th Jan '16 4:24:46 PM Tuckerscreator
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** The narrator mentions there was long tedious examination of the chest's contents by forensic analysts, so anything that might belong to another family was probably determined around that time. It's just the narrator skips over it because, by his own admission, that part's very boring [[EndingFatigue especially when they're wrapping up the story]].
4th Jan '16 3:10:06 PM whisperstar13
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[[folder: Rights to the money]]
* So, realistically, would Stanley really have a claim to all that treasure just because it was in a trunk that had his name on it? You could say the Attorney General would just not know about the treasure and is assuming that the box ''does'' belong to Stanley, but looking back, it's unlikely his great-grandfather would've kept anything inside that box other than his stock market stuff, and Kate Barlow only ''happened'' to decide to use the box she'd taken from him to hold everything else that she buried, so wouldn't a pretty large part of that treasure belong to someone else?
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22nd Mar '15 7:06:50 PM Discar
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* In the book/movie ''Holes'', the main character's name is Stanley Yelnats, and his last name is supposedly from his Latvian side of the family. But, the Latvian alphabet has no "Y"s. They use "J"s instead. So the whole first name is his last name backwards thing wouldn't really work if it's actually Latvian. (From a troper with Latvian heritage and a sister named Livija {Liv-ee-yuh.})

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* In New entries on the book/movie ''Holes'', the bottom.

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[[folder:Palindrome Name]]

* The
main character's name is Stanley Yelnats, and his last name is supposedly from his Latvian side of the family. But, the Latvian alphabet has no "Y"s. They use "J"s instead. So the whole first name is his last name backwards thing wouldn't really work if it's actually Latvian. (From a troper with Latvian heritage and a sister named Livija {Liv-ee-yuh.})



*** Stanle Jelnats could get mangled to Stanley Yelnats pretty easily, and still remain palindromic.
*** And besides, the first Stanley Yelnats was born in the US wasn't he? The Yelnat ancestor who immigrated wasn't named Stanley (Elya I think his name was. I'm not quite sure, it was something like that.).
*** Yep, that's right: Stanley Yelnats was born in the USA and was named by his mother (Sarah Miller, an American) who noticed and liked the palindrome thing. Presumably, Elya Yelnats (Stanley Yelnats IV's great-great-grandfather) Anglicised the spelling of his name upon immigrating, changing the J's to Y's.

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*** ** Stanle Jelnats could get mangled to Stanley Yelnats pretty easily, and still remain palindromic.
*** ** And besides, the first Stanley Yelnats was born in the US wasn't he? The Yelnat ancestor who immigrated wasn't named Stanley (Elya I think his name was. I'm not quite sure, it was something like that.).
*** ** Yep, that's right: Stanley Yelnats was born in the USA and was named by his mother (Sarah Miller, an American) who noticed and liked the palindrome thing. Presumably, Elya Yelnats (Stanley Yelnats IV's great-great-grandfather) Anglicised the spelling of his name upon immigrating, changing the J's to Y's. \n

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[[folder:Breaking the curse]]



*** It could also have been what the trip to the spring symbolized. According to Madame Zeroni, drinking from the spring would make her stronger (possibly the water was more pure or healthier at that spring) and it was implied that she would die soon. Thus, by forgetting his promise, Elya inadvertently shortened her life. When Stanley had Zero drink from the spring, he carried him up there and gave him water to save Zero from dying. In other words, he was giving him the chance to live longer that Madame Zeroni had been denied. So because Stanley had done that, the curse was lifted (or a shorter answer could be that the curse decided to not be picky since Stanley was saving the descendant of the caster).
*** Besides, Madame Zeroni said that the spring on the mountain had water that ran uphill. On God's Thumb, Stanley and Zero (once they're better) wonder about the nature of the spring, and think that the thumb is a natural water reservoir because that's the only explanation, considering "water doesn't run uphill." If we presume that the water at this spring ''did'' run uphill, Stanley and Zero just never noticed it, then that means the two springs both had water that had the same magical properties. So, it works.
*** The book states that the water on God's thumb runs uphill.
*** Or does it? It's only Sam who says the water at his secret onion patch runs uphill. Zero gives a natural explanation, so it's likely one of those MaybeMagicMaybeMundane situations.
*** Also, and this is coming from a Latvian, there are NO mountains in Latvia. Highest we get is a hill, called Gaizinsh and it's only 312 methers above the sea level.
**** Could be that the "mountain" in question was just a hill, which the locals ''called'' a mountain. (Kinda like in Denmark, which doesn't have mountains either -- one of the tallest hills in the country, 147 metres over sea level, is called "Himmelbjerget," which means "Sky-mountain".)

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*** ** It could also have been what the trip to the spring symbolized. According to Madame Zeroni, drinking from the spring would make her stronger (possibly the water was more pure or healthier at that spring) and it was implied that she would die soon. Thus, by forgetting his promise, Elya inadvertently shortened her life. When Stanley had Zero drink from the spring, he carried him up there and gave him water to save Zero from dying. In other words, he was giving him the chance to live longer that Madame Zeroni had been denied. So because Stanley had done that, the curse was lifted (or a shorter answer could be that the curse decided to not be picky since Stanley was saving the descendant of the caster).
*** ** Besides, Madame Zeroni said that the spring on the mountain had water that ran uphill. On God's Thumb, Stanley and Zero (once they're better) wonder about the nature of the spring, and think that the thumb is a natural water reservoir because that's the only explanation, considering "water doesn't run uphill." If we presume that the water at this spring ''did'' run uphill, Stanley and Zero just never noticed it, then that means the two springs both had water that had the same magical properties. So, it works.
*** ** The book states that the water on God's thumb runs uphill.
*** ** Or does it? It's only Sam who says the water at his secret onion patch runs uphill. Zero gives a natural explanation, so it's likely one of those MaybeMagicMaybeMundane situations.
*** ** Also, and this is coming from a Latvian, there are NO mountains in Latvia. Highest we get is a hill, called Gaizinsh and it's only 312 methers meters above the sea level.
**** ** Could be that the "mountain" in question was just a hill, which the locals ''called'' a mountain. (Kinda like in Denmark, which doesn't have mountains either -- one of the tallest hills in the country, 147 metres over sea level, is called "Himmelbjerget," which means "Sky-mountain".))

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[[folder:Suicide]]




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[[folder:Conviction]]



*** Heck, when asked whose fault it is that he's at Green Lake, Stanley replies, "My no-good dirty-rotten pig-stealing great-great-grandfather." Stanley, at least, attributes it to the curse.

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*** ** Heck, when asked whose fault it is that he's at Green Lake, Stanley replies, "My no-good dirty-rotten pig-stealing great-great-grandfather." Stanley, at least, attributes it to the curse.



*** [[AWizardDidIt Your mortal laws have no meaning to Madame Zeroni's curse.]] Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it's really the only logical explanation.
*** IT isn't that you must have a lawyer, you have THE RIGHT to one. Zeroni's curse must of caused Stanley to refuse that right.
*** That's not what happened at all. The book explicitly says Stanley's family couldn't afford a lawyer, not that they refused one.

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*** ** [[AWizardDidIt Your mortal laws have no meaning to Madame Zeroni's curse.]] Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it's really the only logical explanation.
*** IT ** It isn't that you must have a lawyer, you have THE RIGHT to one. Zeroni's curse must of caused Stanley to refuse that right.
*** ** That's not what happened at all. The book explicitly says Stanley's family couldn't afford a lawyer, not that they refused one.one.

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[[folder:Nicknames]]



** Everyone gets their nicknames as soon as they arrive. Persumably, a nickname means you have been recognized by the others as being in group D, not a mark of friendship and popularity.

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** Everyone gets their nicknames as soon as they arrive. Persumably, Presumably, a nickname means you have been recognized by the others as being in group D, not a mark of friendship and popularity.




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[[folder:Ungrateful Camp-Mates]]



** They were most likely pissed off because they felt that he was slacking off. Nobody volunteers to go to Camp Green Lake, and things like the lipstick tube were one-offs. Stanley was getting a lot of time off, and probably the others felt that this was unfair- after all, he could have taught Zero to read for no payment whatsoever, and the only people benefitting from teaching Zero were Stanley and Zero. In a place like Camp Green Lake, it's best to try to benefit as many people as possible by your acts.

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** They were most likely pissed off because they felt that he was slacking off. Nobody volunteers to go to Camp Green Lake, and things like the lipstick tube were one-offs. Stanley was getting a lot of time off, and probably the others felt that this was unfair- after all, he could have taught Zero to read for no payment whatsoever, and the only people benefitting benefiting from teaching Zero were Stanley and Zero. In a place like Camp Green Lake, it's best to try to benefit as many people as possible by your acts.



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[[folder:Pendanski]]



*** Also, it's an early hint that Mr. Pendanski isn't quite what he seems.

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*** ** Also, it's an early hint that Mr. Pendanski isn't quite what he seems.
seems.

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[[folder:Rhyming]]



*** It doesn't say anything about skies. Unless I've entirely misread it every time I've read the book, Stanley's version is "...just a little bit softer." You only hear "...as soft as the skies" once, from Zero's mother at the very end.
*** The film retcons the song a bit to include the "skies" part, making the whole thing rhyme. Sachar wrote the screenplay, so likely that too was his choice.

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*** ** It doesn't say anything about skies. Unless I've entirely misread it every time I've read the book, Stanley's version is "...just a little bit softer." You only hear "...as soft as the skies" once, from Zero's mother at the very end.
*** ** The film retcons the song a bit to include the "skies" part, making the whole thing rhyme. Sachar wrote the screenplay, so likely that too was his choice.



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[[folder:Metal detector]]



*** Right, and if the State of Texas figured out what was going on, they'd stop paying her and providing her free labor.

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*** ** Right, and if the State of Texas figured out what was going on, they'd stop paying her and providing her free labor.



** Most likely it never occured to her. A simple metal detecter could help, but there is still a lot of ground to cover. Covering the entire desert with imagaging technology would take a lot of resources,and would make people wonder what she was up to. Also, she had no way of knowing what exactly was in the box or what the box made of.

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** Most likely it never occured occurred to her. A simple metal detecter detector could help, but there is still a lot of ground to cover. Covering the entire desert with imagaging imaging technology would take a lot of resources,and would make people wonder what she was up to. Also, she had no way of knowing what exactly was in the box or what the box made of.



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21st Feb '15 5:56:18 PM TheGreatSkrond
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** There have been cases of judges taking kickbacks from owners of private juvenile detention facilities to send more kids to them. This would explain why "vacancies [didn't] last long at Camp Green Lake".
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