History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix

25th Aug '16 8:51:25 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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[[folder: Other Order members]]
* Okay, so Harry assumes his only option is to rescue Sirius at the Ministry himself because McGonnagall is being treated from an attack at St. Mungo's and he (rather foolishly) assumes that Snape doesn't care, and those are the only two members he can talk to at Hogwarts. But what about Lupin? Moody? Mr. and Mrs. Weasley? Tonks? Kingsley Shacklebolt, even? Did the book ever mention anything in dispute of this, or did Harry think that the other members of the Order wouldn't have noticed Sirius's disappearance, or that he shouldn't bother telling one of them before heading to the Ministry himself?
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17th Aug '16 6:15:45 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** If Harry's expelled from Hogwarts, that gives the Ministry ample cause to snap his wand and ban him from the wizard world. Then again, though, maybe they're doing everything short of expelling him to ensure that he'll still be around to fix their problems in case it turns out Voldemort ''has'' really returned.



** I understand...but I still think it's sad how so many people use these pages just to complain about changes the movies made. Not all adaptions can follow the source material 100%, and the fifth film actually has one of my favorite changes ever - how Harry comes to learn about the Thestrals, and how it serves as a sort of resolution to the always-yelling-at-people issue he had throughout the book. In any case, though, and as stated above, I think the setup in the film works just as well as it did in the book. Maybe there are some bits of character that were left out, but Harry forcefully using Legilimency on Severus, only to discover through it how he had been bullied by James as a child serves the story just as nicely, even if it is a bit different, and the outcome - Snape not trusting Harry and cancelling their lessons as a result - is still the same.

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** I understand...but I still think it's sad how so many people use these pages just to complain about changes the movies made. Not all adaptions can follow the source material 100%, and the fifth film actually has one of my favorite changes ever - how Harry comes to learn about the Thestrals, and how it serves as a sort of resolution to the always-yelling-at-people issue he had throughout the book. In any case, though, and as stated above, I think the setup in the film works just as well as it did in the book. Maybe there are some bits of character that were left out, but Harry forcefully using Legilimency on Severus, while vehemently defending his father's name, only to discover through it how he Severus had been bullied by James as a child serves the story just as nicely, even if it is a bit different, and the outcome - Snape not trusting Harry and cancelling their lessons as a result - is still the same.
17th Aug '16 6:10:12 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** I understand...but I still think it's sad how so many people use these pages just to complain about changes the movies made. Not all adaptions can follow the source material 100%, and the fifth film actually has one of my favorite changes ever - how Harry comes to learn about the Thestrals, and how it serves as a sort of resolution to the always-yelling-at-people issue he had throughout the book. In any case, though, and as stated above, I think the setup in the film works just as well as it did in the book. Maybe there are some bits of character that were left out, but Harry forcefully using Legilimency on Severus, only to discover through it how he had been bullied by James as a child serves the story just as nicely, even if it is a bit different, and the outcome - Snape not trusting Harry and cancelling their lessons as a result - is still the same.
6th Aug '16 9:48:23 PM inspibrain101
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** It's not so much that the film did it "wrong", it's more that they changed a scene that didn't necessarily need to be changed, and as a result the artistic quality was damaged. Not condemning the movie at all, not in the slightest! It's just that, of all the things that got lost or changed in adaptation, (as they have to be, given the limitations of movies compared to books), this one seemed pointless. It's not like it would have been any more difficult or expensive for them to shoot a scene of Snape walking out of the room and Harry sneaking a peek in the pensieve. So why this change? Especially considering how it impacted both Harry and Snape's characterization, for the reasons stated above.
5th Aug '16 12:40:17 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** Everyone here is so obsessed with pointing out things the films did ''wrong'', you won't even acknowledge any of the things they do really well. I thought the point of Harry seeing Snape's memory was for him to learn not to put his father on a pedestal and that he had a ''lot'' of flaws in his youth, as well as an explanation why Severus loathes him so much...That, and I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume Severus left Harry alone with the Pensieve as a sign of trust, and your complaints about this scene hinge mostly on that.
30th Jul '16 3:10:25 PM inspibrain101
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** Agreed. Not only did this change undermine Snape's character, for the reasons stated above, but it also undermined Harry's characterization; by sneaking a peek in the pensieve, it showed his willingness to intrude on others' privacy and break their trust in order to satisfy his own curiosity. Ending his lessons should have taught him a lesson, that there are consequences for breaking other people's trust.

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** Agreed. Not only did this change undermine Snape's character, for the reasons stated above, but it also undermined Harry's characterization; by sneaking a peek in the pensieve, it showed his willingness to intrude on others' privacy and break their trust in order to satisfy his own curiosity. Ending his lessons should have taught him a lesson, that there are consequences for breaking other people's trust. Instead, Harry ends up looking super badass, getting a jab at the Master Occlumens (even though he's a novice legilimens), and Snape looks like a crybaby when he loses for the first time.
30th Jul '16 1:15:42 PM Blueace
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[[folder:Cheering Charms]]
* You know, the whole issue with Ron on the Quidditch team could have been solved pretty fast with someone shooting him a Cheering charm before a practice, at least. Le him have one good day and from there he picks up momentum to do fine later. Surprised no one ever considered it, to be honest.
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29th Jul '16 3:36:04 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** All pretty valid points. However, on the one hand, Severus was correct in telling Harry that he needed to practice his Occulmency more, because Harry never bothered doing it until the seventh book. Even Hermione called him out on this! Also, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore admits it was his folly in assuming Snape would be willing to put aside his grudge against James so easily.
25th Jul '16 4:44:57 PM Blueace
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[[folder:Occlumency classes]]
* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, getting Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends uup being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and d being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.

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[[folder:Occlumency classes]]
[[folder:Occulmency lessons: horrible teacher choice]]
* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, getting keeping Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends uup being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and d being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.
25th Jul '16 4:32:45 PM Blueace
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[[folder:Occlumency classes]]
* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, getting Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends uup being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and d being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix