History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix

24th Feb '17 8:27:10 PM IndirectActiveTransport
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** Yes, thatís the point. The protection is very limited and can be overpass. Harry is not indestructible, is not like anyone canít harm him. He canít be harmed by a very specific group of people with a very specific group of motivations, but he can still be hit by a bus, thatís why heís in danger in every single book. Yes, is not much, but is something and it does provide a big relief from being the target of the second most powerful and the most cruel wizard in the world, otherwise heíll be dead long ago. And about why he spend time in Private Drive, well actually the books do shows him spending every time less and less, in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys and in Order he spent a lot of time in Siriusí house, but he still has to have the Dursleyís house as his primary residence.
** "He canít be harmed by a very specific group". But that's my point. There's nothing to indicate that even that specific group cannot overcome the protection, so he's not safe at all. "in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys" Uhuh, and before that he'd been spending all the time with them for eleven years why?

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** Yes, thatís the point. The protection is very limited and can be overpass. Harry is not indestructible, is not like anyone canít harm him. He canít be harmed harm by a very specific group of people with a very specific group of motivations, but he can still be hit by a bus, thatís why heís in danger in every single book. Yes, is not much, but is something and it does provide a big relief from being been the target of the second most powerful and the most cruel wizard in the world, otherwise heíll be dead long ago. And about why he spend time in Private Drive, well actually the books do does shows him spending every time less and less, in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys and in Order he spent a lot of time in Siriusí house, but he still has to have the Dursleyís house as his primary residence.
** "He canít be harmed by a very specific group". But that's my point. There's nothing to indicate that even that specific group cannot overcome the protection, so he's not safe at all. "in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys" Uhuh, and before that he'd been spending all the time with them for eleven years why?
residence.



* Trewlaney says Snape was there for a job. That ''could'' be ignorance on her part, but if it's the truth, that leaves several possibilities. Such as Snape being thrown out for listening at the door but convincing whoever matters that he has an appointment, honest, and maybe, halfheartedly, apologizing for being so impatient/nervous/creepy.



** Also, Harry is not capable of apparition at this time.



** Also, even if not freed in of itself, a house elf wearing clothes is still sends an obvious message to a man who she already has no problem with free elves or paying elves.



** Love is oversimplifying it. Harry's powers start with the protection inherited from his mother. Voldemort eventually realizes what happened but doesn't fully understand it, thus he screws himself over focusing on a minor problem that allows the same thing to happen again to a much greater extent by Harry's actions. They expand with the wand cores. Voldemort eventually gets someone to tell him what happened, but as he's ignorant the how the laws of magic actually work he never realizes the implications of losing the that particular tie up. Voldemort then goes in search of the greatest power he knows of, but again doesn't really understand it already belongs to someone else and his attempts to take it end up robbing him of the greatest power he already has, finally allowing Harry to stand up to him.



** Speaking of which. What?! The hell did he mean "stay behind to tell DD"? These are wizards! They have means of remote communication! Yeah, Snape's a jerk and wants to humiliate Sirius, but surely he's not stupid, and I cannot imagine a reaction to that suggestion different from incredulous looks and a weary "Severus, this is really not the time for your bullshit rivalry" from other members.



* At least a half dozen times in OotP, Ron, Hermoine, Ginny, or someone else tells Harry that he has to tell Dumbledore about his visions of Voldemort getting closer to getting the thing he wants from the Ministry. Harry refuses to do so. OK, fine. But if it's that important and Dumbledore needs to know, what's stopping Hermoine, Ron, Ginny, or whomever from going to Dumbledore and telling him themselves?

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* At least a half dozen times in OotP, [=OotP=], Ron, Hermoine, Ginny, or someone else tells Harry that he has to tell Dumbledore about his visions of Voldemort getting closer to getting the thing he wants from the Ministry. Harry refuses to do so. OK, fine. But if it's that important and Dumbledore needs to know, what's stopping Hermoine, Ron, Ginny, or whomever from going to Dumbledore and telling him themselves?




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** Voldemort believing that HE must be the one to kill Harry was a good thing, if you read book 7. [[spoiler:Before book four the plan of Dumbledore involved Harry dying to finally beat Voldemort for good. After book four, he came up with a new plan that where Harry dying wasn't necessary. Voldemort is going to want Harry dead either way. Believing that HE must kill Harry means Harry is less likely to be killed by any of the numerous death eaters, inferi, snakes or giants Voldemort commands.



** Words like 'might', 'probably', 'may', 'can', they all leave the possibility of something ''not'' happening. The face is relatively more resistant to scaring that other areas of the human body.



** Possibly it is the death of your own species, or something close to it, considering magic can stretch the muggle definitions of species.



** What's the point in expelling him? All it will do is provide him with ample free time to undermine the Minisery (they don't control the entire media

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** What's the point in expelling him? All it will do is provide him with ample free time to undermine the Minisery (they don't control the entire mediamedia, evidenced by the interview)



** Being forced to sneak out of his cupboard for the purpose of stealing enough food to eat had the side effect of making sneaking around where he isn't supposed to be a habit, to the point even when Harry isn't hungry he'll still watch TV, which he apparently isn't allowed to do, and sneak is his cousin's room to play not the computer, which he definitely isn't allowed to do. His sneaking habit persists even in Hogwarts, where he is much happier and better treated, and only half of it is for necessary or charitable reasons, the rest of the time he's just amusing himself or letting curiosity get the best of him. Harry might have been miserable for nine years, but is a few hours every other week of enjoyment worth it if he becomes a compulsive liar? His persistent determination to be where he shouldn't is bad enough. At least this way Harry only lies when he thinks he has a good reason to, rather than by reflex.



** To the first question, why would Snape think it would refer to James and Lily? He only heard the first part of the prophecy, and Voldemort made the connection to the Potters. From Death Eater Snape's perspective, his boss gave him an assignment to infiltrate Hogwarts by taking a post there, he nearly messed everything up with his failure at stealth, so he did what any Death Eater did, used the prophecy that he himself would likely not take seriously to save face from his master. To the second question, Voldemort ''did'' follow through on Snape's bargain, he told Lily to step aside and she refused. That's what undid Voldemort. If he had been faithless and killed her at once, none of the scar hijinks would have worked.

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** To the first question, why would Snape think it would refer to James and Lily? He only heard the first part of the prophecy, and Voldemort made the connection to the Potters.Potters ''and'' Longbottoms. From Death Eater Snape's perspective, his boss gave him an assignment to infiltrate Hogwarts by taking a post there, he nearly messed everything up with his failure at stealth, so he did what any Death Eater did, used the prophecy that he himself would likely not take seriously to save face from his master. To the second question, Voldemort ''did'' follow through on Snape's bargain, he told Lily to step aside and she refused. That's what undid Voldemort. If he had been faithless and killed her at once, none of the scar hijinks would have worked.



* Hermione is very clever, but she is capable of failing. Rule breaking, sneaking, stealth, secrecy, these things are not her areas of expertise, which Sirius actually brings up.



** The hundreds of points don't matter if the other teams were losing by similar amounts.



** The wielder allegiance is a trait of ''all'' wands in this setting. What makes the Elder Wand special in that regard is how how unwilling it is to make allegiances to multiple wielders and quickly it will drop allegiance to someone compared to the others.



* She knows something about them, just not that they're pulling the carriages, which for all she knows could be automated, and doesn't realize they're what's making the carrion disappear.



* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, keeping Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends up being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.

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* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, keeping Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends up being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey They might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.



** Except the point above. Even if Severus had resigned to be the nicest guy in all the Niceville to Harry, there'd still be an issue of Voldemort ordering him to sabotage the lessons. There'd be no way to hide the fact from him, and no way to bullshit their way out of it, since V'd be able to monitor Harry's progress or lack thereof. How could DD overlook ''that''?

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** Except Harry did bother practicing in book five, after his lessons with Snape started. Part of the point above. Even if Severus had resigned to be the nicest guy in all the Niceville to Harry, there'd still be an issue of Voldemort ordering him to sabotage the lessons. There'd be no way to hide the fact from him, and no way to bullshit their way out of it, since V'd be able to monitor problem ''was'' Harry's progress relaxed attitude, him not wanting to practice, him wanting to but forgetting, him wanting to but being too angry with Umbridge or lack thereof. How confused about Chang to make any progress, but the other problem was that Harry wasn't good at it to begin with, so what practice he did lead to minimal improvement, though all the same he does make minimal improvement. Book seven, by contrast ''wasn't'' him practicing, it was simply him trying a lot harder in one instance out of desperation, and then finally figuring out a better way of making it work than "no feelings" when Harry realized he was been subconsciously blocking out Voldemort and had done something similar before without making a connection to occulmency the previous time. Ideally, Harry would have done better with Sirius or Lupin as a teacher, because they'd probably believe him when he told them something "revealed" through legilimency wasn't from the dream spying he wasn't supposed to be doing, probably wouldn't blast him while he was scared and then berate him for obviously performing even more poorly, complain about him using defensive measures he never said couldn't be used, would probably be better at motivating him to work harder and Harry could DD overlook ''that''?come to them with questions about Umbridge, Chang, Dumbledoor, [=McGonigal=], Digory that he couldn't or wouldn't with Snape. But Umbridge is monitoring all exits out of the grounds, so those two are out and Dumbledoor's too scared to do himself. It's either Snape or pamphlet.



* You know, the whole issue with Ron on the Quidditch team could have been solved pretty fast with someone shooting him a Cheering charm before a practice, at least. Le him have one good day and from there he picks up momentum to do fine later. Surprised no one ever considered it, to be honest.

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* You know, the whole issue with Ron on the Quidditch team could have been solved pretty fast with someone shooting him a Cheering charm before a practice, at least. Le Let him have one good day and from there he picks up momentum to do fine later. Surprised no one ever considered it, to be honest.



** It's not like he actually loses anything if Harry does the smart thing for once. Plan didn't work, no harm done, back to the drawing board. But seriously, what are the chances of that?

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** It's not like Harry's excuse was that his means of communicating outside of the school were all being monitored and by the time they weren't he wanted to get to Sirius as quickly as possible, already having let more time pass than he wanted before they had to shake Umbridge. Now Voldemort, who ''can't'' actually loses read Harry's mind at this distance, only feel his emotions(if that) and send images, ''he'' has no excuse other than, well, he's really not as bright as he thinks he is at anything if other than killing people and causing discord. His record of screwing things up, especially where Harry does is a factor, are half the smart thing for once. Plan didn't work, no harm done, back to plot of the drawing board. But seriously, what are the chances of that?books.


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** The students can't see the creatures, but they can see the disappearing carrion. And if there is a large heard of these invisible creatures on the grounds, that only those have just suffered a specific form of trauma can see, and will suddenly start seeing regularly after this trauma while most of the student body remains clueless. Yeah, why aren't those things covered immediately in the second year, of course they're a good creature to learn about, and since they're also an irrationally stigmatized creature, Hagrid's going to want people to know about them all the more.


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** Fudge is incompetent, but not ''that'' incompetent. Dolores is ''a bit'' of a haughty idiot, and Cornelius is ''a bit'' of a bumbler. On subject of Snape their combined character flaws came together and let him into her good graces.
24th Feb '17 4:33:41 PM Gess
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** Yes, thatís the point. The protection is very limited and can be overpass. Harry is not indestructible, is not like anyone canít harm him. He canít be harm by a very specific group of people with a very specific group of motivations, but he can still be hit by a bus, thatís why heís in danger in every single book. Yes, is not much, but is something and it does provide a big relief from been the target of the second most powerful and the most cruel wizard in the world, otherwise heíll be dead long ago. And about why he spend time in Private Drive, well actually the books does shows him spending every time less and less, in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys and in Order he spent a lot of time in Siriusí house, but he still has to have the Dursleyís house as his primary residence.

to:

** Yes, thatís the point. The protection is very limited and can be overpass. Harry is not indestructible, is not like anyone canít harm him. He canít be harm harmed by a very specific group of people with a very specific group of motivations, but he can still be hit by a bus, thatís why heís in danger in every single book. Yes, is not much, but is something and it does provide a big relief from been being the target of the second most powerful and the most cruel wizard in the world, otherwise heíll be dead long ago. And about why he spend time in Private Drive, well actually the books does do shows him spending every time less and less, in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys and in Order he spent a lot of time in Siriusí house, but he still has to have the Dursleyís house as his primary residence.residence.
** "He canít be harmed by a very specific group". But that's my point. There's nothing to indicate that even that specific group cannot overcome the protection, so he's not safe at all. "in Goblet he spent a lot of time with the Weasleys" Uhuh, and before that he'd been spending all the time with them for eleven years why?
24th Feb '17 4:01:22 PM Gess
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Added DiffLines:

** Speaking of which. What?! The hell did he mean "stay behind to tell DD"? These are wizards! They have means of remote communication! Yeah, Snape's a jerk and wants to humiliate Sirius, but surely he's not stupid, and I cannot imagine a reaction to that suggestion different from incredulous looks and a weary "Severus, this is really not the time for your bullshit rivalry" from other members.
24th Feb '17 3:44:33 PM Gess
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Added DiffLines:

** It's not like he actually loses anything if Harry does the smart thing for once. Plan didn't work, no harm done, back to the drawing board. But seriously, what are the chances of that?
24th Feb '17 3:38:37 PM Gess
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Added DiffLines:

** Except the point above. Even if Severus had resigned to be the nicest guy in all the Niceville to Harry, there'd still be an issue of Voldemort ordering him to sabotage the lessons. There'd be no way to hide the fact from him, and no way to bullshit their way out of it, since V'd be able to monitor Harry's progress or lack thereof. How could DD overlook ''that''?
22nd Feb '17 12:36:26 PM ScroogeMacDuck
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[[folder:Occulmency lessons: horrible teacher choice]]
* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, keeping Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends uup being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and d being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.
** All pretty valid points. However, on the one hand, Severus was correct in telling Harry that he needed to practice his Occulmency more, because Harry never bothered doing it until the seventh book. Even Hermione called him out on this! Also, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore admits it was his folly in assuming Snape would be willing to put aside his grudge against James so easily.

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[[folder:Occulmency [[folder: Occlumency lessons: horrible teacher choice]]
* Seriously. What, in the name of God possessed Dumbledore to choose Snape as Harry's teacher? Yes, keeping Voldy out of his mind is important, and he may be rubbish at it, but having Snape basically assures that he won't even try and ends uup up being another instance of Snape expecting mastery at the first try and d being a complete jackass to Harry, and him taking it and not even trying to do as he is told. Theey might as well hand him a pamphlet and hope he figures it out by himself, it would have stopped them from wasting so much time and causing their grudge to become even bigger.
** I have read the theory that Voldemort learnt about the planned Occlumency teaching from his link to Harry's mind. Due to ''not'' wanting Harry to learn Occlumency, he ordered Snape to "volunteer" for the job and then deliberately do a bad job of it. Dumbledore, who couldn't teach Harry himself due to the previously stated reasons, accepted the offer gladly.
** All pretty valid points. However, on the one hand, Severus was correct in telling Harry that he needed to practice his Occulmency Occlumency more, because Harry never bothered doing it until the seventh book. Even Hermione called him out on this! Also, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore admits it was his folly in assuming Snape would be willing to put aside his grudge against James so easily.



[[folder: Hagrid's...interesting lesson]]

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[[folder: Hagrid's...interesting Hagrid's Öinteresting lesson]]
22nd Feb '17 12:25:51 PM ScroogeMacDuck
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Added DiffLines:

** The wand-allegiance thing only works with the Elder Wand, you know. This matter aside, it's not "his wand", but it does presumably contain a wandcore and he can use it as a spare wand. It's just like Mad-Eye Moody, Mr Constant Vigilance, to have both a normal wand he lets his enemies know about, and a spare one that looks like a simple walking stick just in case his enemies steal the first one. Note that Lucius Malfoy also has both a wand and a cane that can cast spells.
5th Jan '17 5:48:41 AM Astfgl407
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Added DiffLines:

** 'Voldemort -- the single most fearsome dark wizard alive -- sent Harry Potter an invitation to a massacre and was actually ''surprised'' that Harry came with reinforcements?'
Well, let's consider Harry's track record so far, from Voldemort's point of view. First Year - he shows up to confront Quirrell (and Voldemort) on his own. Second Year - he shows up to confront Tom Riddle and the Basilisk on his own. Third Year - he goes into Shrieking Shack and confronts Sirius Black (who is supposedly out to kill him) with one friend for backup. That's three separate examples of Harry rushing off to fight a powerful dark wizard with little to no backup. Why would he assume that Harry would change his tune in his fifth year? Hell, the only reason Neville, Luna, and Ginny even come along is because they strongarmed Harry into bringing them. After they escape from Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad, his first thought is "you three go back to the castle, and I'll take Ron and Hermione to confront the most powerful dark wizard since Grindelwald, and his army of followers. I think the three of us can take them."
29th Dec '16 2:08:27 PM Lucyp0411
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Added DiffLines:

** Isn't this lampshaded by Dumbledore as the first thing he says to Voldy is (paraphrasing here) " it was a bad idea to come here tonight, Tom."
27th Dec '16 2:02:33 PM Gess
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Added DiffLines:

** If you recall, shortly before the Thestrals were introduced, Harry had got his broom confiscated. Meaning he'd be inconvinienced when the time to travel to London for his annual confrontation with V comes. Therefore DD ensured that he's aware of a replacement.
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