History Headscratchers / GentlemanBastard

15th Apr '16 2:29:32 PM Opunaesala
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** There isn't anything in the books to back this up. We do know the Thiefmaker was chummy with some of the City Watch. It's likely one of his contacts informed him of the educated recently orphaned Jean. It doesn't seem like he stayed with the Thiefmaker long, so he probably got him specifically to sell to Chains.
15th Apr '16 2:18:32 PM Opunaesala
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*** It is likely all located in the vault. It's mentioned in the book that he doesn't offer interest, and his customers pay him to safeguard their things in his vault. He's already making money, and as mentioned above Locke thinks breaking into the vault is impossible.
13th Oct '15 6:14:06 PM Eoppen
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* How would a middle-class kid like Jean Tannen end up with the Thiefmaker in the first place? Could it be that his family's demise was "arranged," and his relatives figured that with him out of the picture, they'd inherit?
10th Feb '14 2:54:09 PM MasterGhandalf
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** It's revealed in the third book: [[spoiler: Lamor Acanthus]]. Although even ''that'' may not[[note]]It was allegedly his previous incarnation's pseudonym, so while it's the earliest name Locke understands for himself, it's not the true name of his soul... assuming Patience was telling the truth.[[/note]] be his true name...
13th Nov '13 7:28:36 PM Benjilicious
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*** The cost would likely defeat the purpose as the price of the contract must be suitable. Furthermore, if the Bondsmagi had dealings with Requin they would likely not take the contract due to a conflict of interests.

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*** The cost would likely defeat the purpose as the price of the contract must be suitable. Furthermore, if the Bondsmagi had dealings with Requin they would likely not take the contract due to a conflict of interests. Furthermore, as Requin was holding money for many nobles of Tal Verra, robbing it would have destabilized the economic and political situation of the city-state, which would have harmed the Bondsmagi's assets, holdings, and influence.
31st Oct '13 11:47:01 AM gundato
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* Okay...the Bondsmagi are this all-powerful society of magicians, whose services are horrifically expensive. That said, when Capa Barsavi started having trouble with the Gray King, ''why'' didn't he even think of hiring a Bondsmage or two of his very own? I'm sure he could have come up with the money.
** Normal people--even the Right People of Camorr--just don't ''think'' about Bondsmagi. It's not the kind of thing that would occur to anybody--it took Locke ''knowing'' there was a Bondsmage and lying about it to make Barsavi even consider the possibility. The only reason the Gray King hired one was that he was a junior OmnicidalManiac...he didn't care what happened after he got his revenge.
** Also, the cost would have been to prohibitive, even for Barsavi. Remember, the Gray King had been saving his money and planning his revenge for decades, and he still needed to steal the Gentlemen Bastards' wealth, that they'd been hoarding for years, to hire the bondsmage just a couple extra days to finish the job.
*** That makes no economic sense. The Bondsmagi hire themselves out; that means that they must set their prices low enough that *someone* in the world can afford them, otherwise they have no customers. Sure, hiring one for a day can cost more than a lowlife labourer will earn in his life, but it can't cost so much that the likes of Barsavi can't afford it. Think of private jets: They can cost so much that an average middle-class slob can't afford one, but they can't cost so much that Bill Gates can't afford one. If they do, the company making them goes out of business.
*** It's heavily implied, by Chains in particular, that the Bondsmagi don't actually rely on being hired by outsiders as a meaningful revenue stream. Their prices reflect their vanity; they'd rather have it be widely known that their services cost an unfathomable sum of money than actually be hired by someone willing to pay that sum.
*** Not really. It is, at times, implied the Bondsmage basically have their own nation/organization. So the non-bondsmagi handle day to day stuff, whereas the Bondsmages are hired by kings and what not. Also, there is nothing saying there isn't an exponential curve. Relatively cheap for a spell or two, super expensive to have on retainer for a month.
*** And Barsavi ''had'' hired a Bondsmage before...remember [[spoiler: when Locke drank Barsavi's toast, with the enchanted shark tooth in the glass?]]
** The Bondsmagi seem to work like a guild, I doubt they would accept jobs that put them against one of their own. Barsavi could have tried to hire them and they refused on a pretext or intentionally set a price that Barsavi can't pay so they don't get involved on both sides.

* For that matter, why didn't someone who was mad at the Sinspire hire a Bondsmage to clean out its vaults? These guys are apparently for hire to people with the right money, and I'd say that offering one 90% of all the money in the Sinspire to clean those vaults out would more than purchase his services.
** But not your life. Requin would find you, and he would kill you, and [[OceansEleven then he'd go to work on you.]] Sooner or later the money would run out, the Bondsmage would leave, and you'd be screwed beyond the screwing. DisproportionateRetribution (and it wouldn't even really be disproportionate!) is a fact of life.[[note]]Unless you can kill Requin first, something which he expects and is prepared to defend against[[/note]] Plus, see above, about Bondsmagi not being part of the average Therin's experience. And, "if you do all the work you can have 90% of the money" isn't really an offer, it's a joke.
** Most of the "Bonds-magic" is an art of deceit, treachery, hypnosis, telepathic manipulation and illusion, [[WordOfGod it's said in the first book]] this way they had slain the Therin Empire army. There is no hint they could break Elderglass, the substance which no human art may mold.

* I did wonder for a while why the Bondsmagi, if they're so powerful, don't rule the whole world. Then again, they could be going by the [[KevinAndKell RL and Angelique]] principle: "World domination? Who wants that headache? Let's make gobs of money instead!"
** WordOfGod has given a couple of answers and assurances that we'll find out, perhaps even in ''The Republic of Thieves''. As to the answers: "How do you know they don't?" "Maybe there's something they're not telling us?" and "Maybe they just can't agree on how..."
*** The Archon of Tal Verrar claimed they ''do'' rule the world, in his speech to Locke and Jean.
** They might be like the faculty of a university...and getting the faculties I have had to deal with to agree on ''anything'' made herding cats look ridiculously easy.
*** If you remember the canon version of how they were founded, this makes sense: A strong mage went to a weak one and said "Join me or fight me," then the two of them went to a third and said "Join us or fight both of us" and so on. It's not like they have some overwhelming philosophy that binds them all together, it's a combination of fear of what would happen if thye left and liking being more powerful than everyone else.
** The interlude on them told how Therin Emperor had tried to subdue them by other means than force. They answered with a letter which said they were ready to work for everyone given the appropriate (for any other Therin, egregious) amount of money, or to kill at the slightest provocation.
** The easy answer is that they're not actually all-powerful, and let their reputation do most of their heavy lifting: they're ShroudedInMyth. Granted the Falconer was very powerful but [[spoiler: Locke and Jean ''did'' get the better of him in the end]] and he was implied to be very high-ranking within their organization. Combine that with a healthy dose of infighting and possibly no particular desire to rule the world to begin with, and it makes sense.

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* Okay...With the release of the third book, almost all Bondsmagi questions are answered, so they are summed up here:
** Why didn't Capa Barsavi hire a Bondsmagi the moment he suspected he was in grave danger?
*** Because
the Bondsmagi are this all-powerful society of magicians, whose services are horrifically expensive. That said, when Capa Barsavi started having trouble with the Gray King, ''why'' didn't he even think of hiring a Bondsmage or two of his very own? I'm sure he could have come up with the money.
** Normal people--even the Right People of Camorr--just don't ''think'' about Bondsmagi. It's not the kind of thing that
leaders debate and discuss contracts before agreeing to them, so it would occur to anybody--it took Locke ''knowing'' there was a Bondsmage and lying about it to make Barsavi likely take weeks or even consider months.
** How can
the possibility. The only reason the Gray King hired one was that he was a junior OmnicidalManiac...he didn't care what happened after he got his revenge.
** Also, the cost would have been to prohibitive, even for Barsavi. Remember, the Gray King had been saving his money and planning his revenge for decades, and he still needed to steal the Gentlemen Bastards' wealth, that they'd been hoarding for years, to hire the bondsmage just a couple extra days to finish the job.
*** That makes no economic sense. The
Bondsmagi hire themselves out; that means that function if they must set are so expensive? Very few people would be able to pay for their prices low enough that *someone* in the world can afford them, otherwise they have no customers. Sure, hiring one for a day can cost more than a lowlife labourer will earn in his life, but it can't cost so much that the likes of Barsavi can't afford it. Think of private jets: They can cost so much that an average middle-class slob can't afford one, but they can't cost so much that Bill Gates can't afford one. If they do, the company making them goes out of business.
services.
*** It's heavily implied, by Chains in particular, that the The Bondsmagi don't actually rely on being hired by outsiders as a meaningful revenue stream. Their prices reflect their vanity; they'd rather have it be widely known that their services cost an unfathomable sum of money than actually be hired by someone willing to pay that sum.
*** Not really. It is, at times, implied
need the Bondsmage basically money. They have their own nation/organization. So the non-bondsmagi handle day to day stuff, whereas the Bondsmages are hired by kings city and what not. Also, there is nothing saying there isn't an exponential curve. Relatively cheap for a spell or two, super expensive to have on retainer for a month.
*** And Barsavi ''had'' hired a Bondsmage before...remember [[spoiler: when Locke drank Barsavi's toast, with the enchanted shark tooth in the glass?]]
** The Bondsmagi seem to work like a guild, I doubt
can take anything they would accept jobs that put them against one of want. They do the contracts to exert their own. Barsavi could have tried to hire them and they refused on a pretext or intentionally set a price that Barsavi can't pay so they don't get involved on both sides.

* For that matter, why didn't someone who was mad at the Sinspire hire a Bondsmage to clean out its vaults? These guys are apparently for hire to people with the right money, and I'd say that offering one 90% of all the money in the Sinspire to clean those vaults out would more than purchase his services.
power while limiting their influence.
** But not your life. Requin would find you, and he would kill you, and [[OceansEleven then he'd go to work on you.]] Sooner or later the money would run out, the Bondsmage would leave, and you'd be screwed beyond the screwing. DisproportionateRetribution (and it Why wouldn't even really be disproportionate!) is someone hire a fact of life.[[note]]Unless you can kill Requin first, something which he expects and is prepared to defend against[[/note]] Plus, see above, about Bondsmagi not being part to rob Requin?
*** The cost would likely defeat the purpose as the price
of the average Therin's experience. And, "if you do all contract must be suitable. Furthermore, if the work you can have 90% of the money" isn't really an offer, it's a joke.
** Most of the "Bonds-magic" is an art of deceit, treachery, hypnosis, telepathic manipulation and illusion, [[WordOfGod it's said in the first book]] this way
Bondsmagi had dealings with Requin they had slain would likely not take the Therin Empire army. There is no hint they could break Elderglass, the substance which no human art may mold.

* I did wonder for
contract due to a while why the Bondsmagi, if they're so powerful, conflict of interests.
** Why
don't rule the whole world. Then again, they could be going by the [[KevinAndKell RL and Angelique]] principle: "World domination? Who wants that headache? Let's make gobs of money instead!"
** WordOfGod has given a couple of answers and assurances that we'll find out, perhaps even in ''The Republic of Thieves''. As to the answers: "How do you know they don't?" "Maybe there's something they're not telling us?" and "Maybe they just can't agree on how..."
*** The Archon of Tal Verrar claimed they ''do'' rule the world, in his speech to Locke and Jean.
** They might be like the faculty of a university...and getting the faculties I have had to deal with to agree on ''anything'' made herding cats look ridiculously easy.
*** If you remember the canon version of how they were founded, this makes sense: A strong mage went to a weak one and said "Join me or fight me," then the two of them went to a third and said "Join us or fight both of us" and so on. It's not like they have some overwhelming philosophy that binds them all together, it's a combination of fear of what would happen if thye left and liking being more powerful than everyone else.
** The interlude on them told how Therin Emperor had tried to subdue them by other means than force. They answered with a letter which said they were ready to work for everyone given the appropriate (for any other Therin, egregious) amount of money, or to kill at the slightest provocation.
** The easy answer is that they're not actually all-powerful, and let their reputation do most of their heavy lifting: they're ShroudedInMyth. Granted the Falconer was very powerful but [[spoiler: Locke and Jean ''did'' get the better of him in the end]] and he was implied to be very high-ranking within their organization. Combine that with a healthy dose of infighting and possibly no particular desire to
Bondsmagi rule the world to begin with, if they are so powerful?
*** To paraphrase a bondsmagi in the third book "You are so beyond a pig that they can't stop you. So why haven't you taken over the farm
and it makes sense.
declared yourself ruler of all pigs?"
*** Furthermore, the bondsmagi believe that the reason the Eldren fell were that they were too fast and loose with their magic and were destroyed by an external force. The current system is designed to maximize Bondsmagi power and influence while limiting them from being too noticeable to any outside forces.
9th Jul '13 10:31:16 PM Nautilus1
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*** The Archon of Tal Verrar claimed they ''do'' rule the world, in his speech to Locke and Jean.
13th Jun '13 12:23:26 PM saraheg
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* Locke's real name - five syllables, something that surprised Jean - any guesses? Are we supposed to be able to figure out what it is?
4th Apr '13 10:10:28 AM Leoreth
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to:

** The Bondsmagi seem to work like a guild, I doubt they would accept jobs that put them against one of their own. Barsavi could have tried to hire them and they refused on a pretext or intentionally set a price that Barsavi can't pay so they don't get involved on both sides.
28th Mar '13 10:25:35 AM Shaf
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*** That makes no economic sense. The Bondsmagi hire themselves out; that means that they must set their prices low enough that *someone* in the world can afford them, otherwise they have no customers. Sure, hiring one for a day can cost more than a lowlife labourer will earn in his life, but it can't cost so much that the likes of Barsavi can't afford it. Think of private jets: They can cost so much that an average middle-class slob can't afford one, but they can't cost so much that Bill Gates can't afford one. If they do, the company making them goes out of business.

to:

*** That makes no economic sense. The Bondsmagi hire themselves out; that means that they must set their prices low enough that *someone* in the world can afford them, otherwise they have no customers. Sure, hiring one for a day can cost more than a lowlife labourer will earn in his life, but it can't cost so much that the likes of Barsavi can't afford it. Think of private jets: They can cost so much that an average middle-class slob can't afford one, but they can't cost so much that Bill Gates can't afford one. If they do, the company making them goes out of business. business.
*** It's heavily implied, by Chains in particular, that the Bondsmagi don't actually rely on being hired by outsiders as a meaningful revenue stream. Their prices reflect their vanity; they'd rather have it be widely known that their services cost an unfathomable sum of money than actually be hired by someone willing to pay that sum.
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