History Headscratchers / FateStayNight

14th Jan '17 4:50:17 AM akanesarumara
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**** Like I said, I know she cannot help it. The point still stands as she cannot ''stop'' it either, and she is begging for someone to end it for her. Killing her at this point would be 1, honouring that wish, 2, as I said, a MercyKill and allowing her to die as herself.
28th Nov '16 5:39:34 AM MrCairo
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** Word of God is that Zero is actually a slightly different timeline to any of the Stay Night routes, excusing the discrepancies in the typical Nasuverse "everything is canon in a parallel universe" way.


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[[folder:Saber's Memories]]

So in Fate, when Saber meets the priest from the church for the first time (in one of the bad endings), she seems surprised that he's Kirei, because she thought Kirei had died when Kiritsugu shot him. However, in Heaven's Feel, Saber knows that the priest at the church is Kirei without even meeting him, and warns Shirou that Kiritsugu considered him the most dangerous opponent (but fails to mention that "he won't die if you shoot him, so don't bother trying" or something similar). There's an obvious Doylian explanation for this; Nasu himself has said he "cheated" a little by sometimes having characters subconsciously remember the events of the previous route, influencing their actions so as to form a progressing narrative over all three routes (for example, this is the reason he gave for Gilgamesh not just pursuing Saber again in Unlimited Blade Works). But is there any actual Watsonian explanation for why Saber's memories of the Fourth War are different between Fate and Heaven's Feel, despite the two routes having the same starting point with no obvious divergence in Saber's knowledge?

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16th Nov '16 8:19:45 AM dlchen145
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** I think you're giving Shinji too much credit. Look at the fight in Fate where Shirou forces him to cancel the Blood Fort -- even after Shirou goes all {{Badass}} {{Determinator}}, kicks his ass, and starts choking him, Shinji's first instinct is to assume that Shirou couldn't possibly bring himself to kill him. He just doesn't take Shirou seriously. (Now that I think about it, that's probably why he offered Shirou an alliance in the first place -- he wanted a partner he thought was a pushover.)

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** I think you're giving Shinji too much credit. Look at the fight in Fate where Shirou forces him to cancel the Blood Fort -- even after Shirou goes all {{Badass}} badass {{Determinator}}, kicks his ass, and starts choking him, Shinji's first instinct is to assume that Shirou couldn't possibly bring himself to kill him. He just doesn't take Shirou seriously. (Now that I think about it, that's probably why he offered Shirou an alliance in the first place -- he wanted a partner he thought was a pushover.)
15th Nov '16 10:07:01 AM WhimsicalButterfly
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** No dice. Remember how Shirou's Tracing works: he copies any sword (or bladed weapon in general) the moment he sees it. A derived sword from Excalibur probably exists, but Shirou's never seen that sword so he can't Trace it. He calls it "The greatest Noble Phantasm I know of", and that can only point to Excalibur (he doesn't fight Gilgamesh in HF). Finally, he doesn't freeze when he first sees Excalibur in Fate (he started freaking when he saw Ea); in fact, he seemed to understand its name before Saber even called it out. Cheap bootleg or not, Shirou definitely projected Excalibur in HF's Normal End.
17th Oct '16 10:31:26 AM RedDingo
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*** No, Sakura is not a ''murderer'' because she is not the one fully in control of her actions. The majority of responsibility for those deaths rests solely on the thing using her as a meat suit, and it would be wrong to punish her for it.
** This talk of a billion versus one is a strawman argument. The choice is not between allowing billions to die or killing one girl. The choice is between kill one girl to save billions or find a way to save both. The fact is that another way existed and choosing to become Kiritsugu ended up blinding Shirou to finding a way that preserved his loved ones AND saved billions of people. That was objectively the best outcome and it is only possible if you are willing to ''look'' for it.


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1st Oct '16 12:59:19 AM orgyworgy
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** Simple, because Shirou dies soon after that end. He has no servant, no projection, a psychotic Rin after him, Ilya after him, and in general hated by everyone. Even if he makes it to the end by some asspull miracle, Kirei will just kill him and awaken Angra Mainyu like he wanted
30th Sep '16 11:19:14 PM orgyworgy
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** Enuma Elish cuts away at the world's reality marble, showing the truth (fire and lava and absolute destruction) underneath, that's why its anti-world
30th Sep '16 11:01:57 PM orgyworgy
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** The damage from the fall was large enough to cause Unlimited Blade Works to overwrite Avalon's protection and knitted his wounds with swords instead of flesh/bones, similar to how in Heaven's Feel more and more of his body was replaced with swords
30th Sep '16 10:44:37 PM orgyworgy
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** Its a sword derived from the legend of Excalibur with similar look and ability. Just as the legend of Gram later gave birth to Caliburn, the sword from the stone, there exist in universe at least 1 holy sword with similar ability to Excalibur, but human made and thus tracable
30th Sep '16 10:40:29 PM orgyworgy
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** Because its Nine Lives (the technique Heracles used to kill the 9 head Hydra) adapted for Fake Nine Lives/the rock sword, hence Blade Works.
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