History Headscratchers / FateExtra

26th Apr '16 12:33:20 PM deathhappens
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** To be exact: The Seven Servants as summoned by the Holy Grail are not the actual heroes of legend themselves (With the exception of Arturia, as explained in the Fate route of F/SN). They are, more or less, copies of them, each made to fit one of seven vessels in the form of Classes (again, irregular cases like Avenger aside). Thus, the actual soul of a hero never actually leaves the Throne. The Moon Cell, on the other hand,having observed the entirety of Earth's history, simply summons an accurate representation of a Heroic Spirit as they were observed by it in life. That they even use Classes at all is more of a nod to the original F/SN than any particular need.



**Factually incorrect. She states that she likes females and males alike, not that she was anything but a female in life.



** Pretty sure the Decoy Protag is Shinji's 'friend' the way the girls that flock to him are his 'fangirls': They're [=NPCs=], so Decoy Protag is Shinji's friend even though he doesn't know ''why''. For the Actual Protagonist, it could go either way: Either they really were friends with Shinji, or the MC's semi-NPC status lumped them into the same category as Decoy Protag ('NPC programmed to be Shinji's friend') until the War started, since it seems that [=NPCs=] all serve the same roles to whoever they're interacting with. Issei, for example, is supposedly the friend of both the Decoy and Actual Protags, and gave them both the same speech. I'm leaning towards "MC is Shinji's actual friend," since it would match the theme of the prologue, like the Decoy thinking that Leo is looking at/addressing him when he's actually paying attention to the MC.

to:

** Pretty sure the Decoy Protag is Shinji's 'friend' the way the girls that flock to him are his 'fangirls': They're [=NPCs=], so Decoy Protag is Shinji's friend even though he doesn't know ''why''. For the Actual Protagonist, it could go either way: Either they really were friends with Shinji, or the MC's semi-NPC status lumped them into the same category as Decoy Protag ('NPC programmed to be Shinji's friend') until the War started, since it seems that [=NPCs=] all serve the same roles to whoever they're interacting with. Issei, for example, is supposedly the friend of both the Decoy and Actual Protags, and gave them both the same speech. I'm leaning towards "MC is Shinji's actual friend," since it would match the theme of the prologue, like the Decoy thinking that Leo is looking at/addressing him when he's actually paying attention to the MC.
20th Jan '15 11:30:12 AM UraRenge
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** It's more than likely that Rider is in fact Queen Elizabeth in disguise. The reason being the gigantic scar across her face, and Elizabeth I was famous for having a face that was marred by scars in life due to smallpox (it's why her face is so white in portraits, she used a LOT of makeup to cover her scars).
3rd Oct '14 9:57:50 AM nameheregrr
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Gatou is presumably pretty powerful; he did manage to summon Acrueid, which is a fairly impressive achievement even though he totally botched the process..
25th May '14 5:43:37 PM fbiuzz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** To expand on the explanation: In the original continuity, Servants are Heroic Spirits who are summoned from the the Throne of Heroes, a sort of databank beyond space and time (or rather, before the beginning of space and time, but Akasha is not relevant here) that stores the souls of these beings. These souls are recognized as "perfect" and "unchangeable" by being accepted into the Throne of Heroes, so even if they are summoned and dismissed, they are stripped from the actual memories of their deeds (though it is implied that they have information of them... it's complicated). The Servants in this game, however, are not summoned but reconstructed by the Moon Cell's Serial Phantasm (a reality marble of sorts) based on the data recorded in the Automaton. This is why they have access to information normal heroic souls wouldn't be and why they can be modified by both the system and the masters to some degree... In short, they are not actual heroic spirits, only virtual copies.

to:

** To expand on the explanation: In the original continuity, Servants are Heroic Spirits who are summoned from the the Throne of Heroes, a sort of databank beyond space and time (or rather, before the beginning of space and time, but Akasha is not relevant here) that stores the souls of these beings. These souls are recognized as "perfect" and "unchangeable" by being accepted into the Throne of Heroes, so even if they are summoned and dismissed, they are stripped from the actual memories of their deeds (though it is implied that they have information of them... it's complicated). The Servants in this game, however, are not summoned but reconstructed by the Moon Cell's Serial Phantasm (a reality marble of sorts) based on the data recorded in the Automaton. This is why they have access to information normal heroic souls wouldn't be and why they can be modified by both the system and the masters to some degree... In short, they are not actual heroic spirits, only virtual copies.copies.
** Besides Caster is not a Heroic Spirit, but a facet of a Japanese Sun Goddess. It's revealed that when Caster died she just end up being assimilated back into the Goddess, but later made an agreement to be a heroic spirit in order to be loved by someone-kinda like Saber did in main Fate franchise.
19th May '14 9:03:08 AM luces
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Uhm, I'm not so sure about the above theory. The Japanese game does mention that as an interesting story but kind of shurugs it off, saying "Well there is this pretty romantic theory about Drake and the Queen, but it's merely a fictitious account." According to the text, Rider was given the nickname El Drago by the Spanish people because she is "the 'woman' who pulled the sun down for the kingdom on which the sun never sets(Spain, in this context)." The text even confirms at the start of that part of MATRIX that "Francis Drake was a man in real history, but appears as a woman in Fate/EXTRA universe."

to:

** Uhm, I'm not so sure about the above theory. The Japanese game does mention that as an interesting story but kind of shurugs shrugs it off, saying "Well there is this pretty romantic theory about Drake and the Queen, but it's merely a fictitious account." According to the text, Rider was given the nickname El Drago by the Spanish people because she is "the 'woman' who pulled the sun down for the kingdom on which the sun never sets(Spain, in this context)." The text even confirms at the start of that part of MATRIX that "Francis Drake was a man in real history, but appears as a woman in Fate/EXTRA universe."
18th May '14 12:52:58 AM luces
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Actually, according to the manga adaptation of Fate/EXTRA by Robi~na(which closely follows the original game with some twists here and there), Saber Extra was indeed a woman. It is explained that Agrippina, her mother, arranged matters in the court so that her daughter can succeed the Roman throne after killing off Emperor Claudius(Agrippina's husband, also Nero's stepfather). Despite being a woman, Nero called herself an "emperor" and was regarded as such, even being forced to "marry" the late Claudius' daughter Octavia(this was the result of Agrippina's urging as well). Since the Protagonist expresses some degreee of surprise at her identity but doesn't go "Wait, you're a girl?!"(as Kiritsugu did in Fate/Zero after summoning Saber), it seems possible that the fact that Emperor Nero is female is an established fact in this world. Maybe this is the same case with Rider Extra.

to:

** Actually, according to the manga adaptation of Fate/EXTRA by Robi~na(which closely follows the original game with some twists here and there), Saber Extra was indeed a woman. It is explained that Agrippina, her mother, arranged matters in the court so that her daughter can succeed the Roman throne after killing off Emperor Claudius(Agrippina's husband, also Nero's stepfather). Despite being a woman, Nero called herself an "emperor" and was regarded as such, even being forced to "marry" the late Claudius' daughter Octavia(this was the result of Agrippina's urging as well). Since the Protagonist expresses some degreee degree of surprise at her identity but doesn't go "Wait, you're a girl?!"(as Kiritsugu did in Fate/Zero after summoning Saber), it seems possible that the fact that Emperor Nero is female is an established fact in this world. Maybe this is the same case with Rider Extra.
18th May '14 12:50:30 AM luces
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

***** Perhaps that would work in Fate/stay night Holy Grail War or some other universes, but not in the Moon Cell version. The physical appearance of Servants in the EXTRA Holy Grail War actually has to be the representation of how they looked like in real life, precisely because it is the exact digital copy of world history recorded by Moon Cell.
** Actually, according to the manga adaptation of Fate/EXTRA by Robi~na(which closely follows the original game with some twists here and there), Saber Extra was indeed a woman. It is explained that Agrippina, her mother, arranged matters in the court so that her daughter can succeed the Roman throne after killing off Emperor Claudius(Agrippina's husband, also Nero's stepfather). Despite being a woman, Nero called herself an "emperor" and was regarded as such, even being forced to "marry" the late Claudius' daughter Octavia(this was the result of Agrippina's urging as well). Since the Protagonist expresses some degreee of surprise at her identity but doesn't go "Wait, you're a girl?!"(as Kiritsugu did in Fate/Zero after summoning Saber), it seems possible that the fact that Emperor Nero is female is an established fact in this world. Maybe this is the same case with Rider Extra.


Added DiffLines:

** Uhm, I'm not so sure about the above theory. The Japanese game does mention that as an interesting story but kind of shurugs it off, saying "Well there is this pretty romantic theory about Drake and the Queen, but it's merely a fictitious account." According to the text, Rider was given the nickname El Drago by the Spanish people because she is "the 'woman' who pulled the sun down for the kingdom on which the sun never sets(Spain, in this context)." The text even confirms at the start of that part of MATRIX that "Francis Drake was a man in real history, but appears as a woman in Fate/EXTRA universe."
5th Jan '14 11:48:53 PM misfit119
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Similarly, how is Rider Extra ([[spoiler: aka Francis Drake]]). Again, how did she somehow hide her gender without, y'know, hiding her gender, in a period with decent contemporary records

to:

**** Honestly we're all forgetting a pretty big issue here: Saber spells the whole thing out. She states, when asked, that her soul is both male and female but if she had to she'd err on the side of female. Your souls appearance, especially a digital copy of it, doesn't have to match up to your gender because it'd just be a representation of who or what you were. Nero WAS a man, but a man deeply in tune with what he saw as a softer, gentler and more feminine side. Nero was a fairly unattractive man so perhaps he had no real affection or affinity for the shell he was trapped in and considered himself a more free spirited sort. Throw in a mix of gender dysphoria and you've got a male who is perfectly willing to appear as a beautiful woman. Then again there's also the issue of how unreliable the historians of that time were, especially when they "wrote" their histories more than 50 years after his rule and have been accused of slander so what we know may be almost entirely wrong.
* Similarly, how is Rider Extra ([[spoiler: aka Francis Drake]]). Again, how did she somehow hide her gender without, y'know, hiding her gender, in a period with decent contemporary recordsrecords?
16th Dec '13 10:13:50 PM NineTailedEevee
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

***There's also the part where Nasu stated he wanted to use Nero as something to get fans of the F/SN into Extra. So why not use previous character models? Hence Archer, Rin, Sakura, and others being in the game. Also, while Rome and Britain had connections, let's not forget that King Arthur's legend was also Celtic. Which is very far from Roman based.
23rd Apr '13 3:38:45 PM ElvenQueen
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** If that's the case, then why not just use the Saber Lily incarnation of Arturia? Sounds like a better idea to me than randomly gender-flipping Nero.

to:

*** If that's the case, then why not just use [[VideoGame/FateUnlimitedCodes the Saber Lily incarnation of Arturia? Arturia]]? Sounds like a better idea to me than randomly gender-flipping Nero.
This list shows the last 10 events of 48. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.FateExtra