History Headscratchers / DragonAgeII

5th Jun '16 6:51:11 PM Rotide
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Morrigan's comments in ''Witch Hunt'' indicated that the Eluvians went to realms distinct from the Fade (And given what we learn in ''[[DragonAgeInquisition Inquisition]]'' it's likely they ''predate'' the Fade), so it's a dubious claim that the demon could get through the Eluvian. Why did Marethari think the demon was trying to trick Merrill into letting it in, then?. Where did she get that idea? She really seems to believe in it, given how ardently she opposses Merrill's efforts to repair the Eluvian, but there's no evidence that her claims are at all plausible. I get that she's somewhat reactionary in regards to using Blood Magic, but it's a VERY specific conclusion to leap to without ANY evidence.

to:

* Morrigan's comments in ''Witch Hunt'' indicated that the Eluvians went to realms distinct from the Fade (And given what we learn in ''[[DragonAgeInquisition Inquisition]]'' it's likely they ''predate'' the Fade), so it's a dubious claim that the demon could get through the Eluvian. Why did Marethari think the demon was trying to trick Merrill into letting it in, then?. Where did she get that idea? She really seems to believe in it, given how ardently she opposses opposes Merrill's efforts to repair the Eluvian, but there's no evidence that her claims are at all plausible. I get that she's somewhat reactionary in regards to using Blood Magic, but it's a VERY specific conclusion to leap to without ANY evidence.


Added DiffLines:

** That makes sense, for the most part. What bugs me is Marethari's source for this notion. It's a bit particular, I mean. I get her being paranoid in general, I'm just unsure why/how she had such a specific notion of the demon's goal. It's not that I'm questioning why Marethari would be wrong, I'm questioning how she could be wrong in such a specific way, unless someone was feeding her bad information. (And if it was Audacity, then why did she believe it if she's so mistrustful of demons?)
5th Jun '16 5:27:15 PM RenLi
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** The Dalish are shown to have very vague and incorrect information about the history of their race- it's likely that Marethari believed what she was saying. It's also possible there was some grain of truth to it- Merrill had already made a deal with the demon, and in Inquisition it's stated that the Veil is extremely thin in the realm where the Eluvians lead. At the end of the day, the truth comes second to what Marethari believes to be the truth- and the Dalish generally aren't good at admitting they may be wrong.
4th Jun '16 7:43:08 PM Rotide
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Why did Marethari think the Eluvian would allow the demon to cross over? There's no evidence that she should know more about the Eluvian than Merrill, and even if she did, Morrigan's comments on the Eluvian back in Witch Hunt (I'll ignore ''[[DragonAgeInquisition Inquisition]]'', because it might not have been decided upon yet) Indicate it does NOT go into the Fade, but another realm. So, it doesn't make sense that the demon would've been able to cross through it. It makes it seem like Marethari has no idea what she's talking about, and is acting more out of paranoia than actual reason. (I admit, this is more of a meta question- if it was deliberate that Marethari's claims about the Eluvian are rather dubious.)

to:

* Why did Marethari think the Eluvian would allow the demon to cross over? There's no evidence that she should know more about the Eluvian than Merrill, and even if she did, Morrigan's comments on in ''Witch Hunt'' indicated that the Eluvian back Eluvians went to realms distinct from the Fade (And given what we learn in Witch Hunt (I'll ignore ''[[DragonAgeInquisition Inquisition]]'', because it might not have been decided upon yet) Indicate it does NOT go into Inquisition]]'' it's likely they ''predate'' the Fade, but another realm. So, it doesn't make sense Fade), so it's a dubious claim that the demon would've been able to cross could get through it. It makes it seem like the Eluvian. Why did Marethari has think the demon was trying to trick Merrill into letting it in, then?. Where did she get that idea? She really seems to believe in it, given how ardently she opposses Merrill's efforts to repair the Eluvian, but there's no idea what evidence that her claims are at all plausible. I get that she's talking about, and is acting more out of paranoia than actual reason. (I admit, this is more of somewhat reactionary in regards to using Blood Magic, but it's a meta question- if it was deliberate that Marethari's claims about the Eluvian are rather dubious.)VERY specific conclusion to leap to without ANY evidence.
4th Jun '16 7:27:12 PM Rotide
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Marethari and the Eluvian]]
* Why did Marethari think the Eluvian would allow the demon to cross over? There's no evidence that she should know more about the Eluvian than Merrill, and even if she did, Morrigan's comments on the Eluvian back in Witch Hunt (I'll ignore ''[[DragonAgeInquisition Inquisition]]'', because it might not have been decided upon yet) Indicate it does NOT go into the Fade, but another realm. So, it doesn't make sense that the demon would've been able to cross through it. It makes it seem like Marethari has no idea what she's talking about, and is acting more out of paranoia than actual reason. (I admit, this is more of a meta question- if it was deliberate that Marethari's claims about the Eluvian are rather dubious.)
21st Jan '16 1:15:33 PM CountDorku
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** To go back to the original question, the qunari aren't trying to fix their society because their doctrine is that their society is already perfect and the problem is with the people who become Tal-Vashoth, and noticing problems in qunari society is a good way to get anyone below the Triumvirate a session with the reeducators or a dose of qamek. Which means that qunari reform is facing three issues. One, the people with enough power to do so are dependent upon people thinking they know everything to ''keep'' that power, and admitting you fucked up kind of goes against that goal. Two, most of the people who fit well into it are so indoctrinated into its ways that the concept of thinking otherwise is almost impossible for them to understand (see also: Sten). Three, anyone who notices that there are problems and dares say anything about them gets a visit from the secret police, who ''also'' depend upon the official dogma being followed for their power. Basically, they can't fix it because nobody is allowed to realise that it's broken, and anyone who does is killed, brainwashed or drugged into idiocy.
21st Nov '15 7:25:56 PM aelfgyve
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** If you find it implausible, you may not have been paying attention. Anders' personality change is probably the ''most'' believable progression of his character arc. He's a Spirit Healer. He relies on the benevolent spirits of the Fade to aid his healing work, and trusts them enough to deal with them and channel them. And he's potentially met someone else, another Spirit Healer, who's possessed by a benevolent spirit without ill-effects: Wynne. Justice needs a body, and Anders needs the power to escape, because his options at the end of Awakening are either Tranquility or a Warden order that has suddenly become very unfriendly now that the Hero of Ferelden isn't around to protect him. He trusts Justice, as a Spirit Healer trusts helpful spirits, and Justice really ''doesn't'' mean harm. This isn't a case of succumbing to a demon's persuasion. Anders' judgement of Justice's motives wasn't off at all-- it's ''his own'' anger which corrupts Justice into Vengeance, something neither of them foresaw. Justice never meant for this. Anders is never the same again because he's really ''not the same person''. Justice always maintained that he was only the personification of a virtue, nothing else. Anders has become a personification of Vengeance. He literally can't think of anything but mage oppression. He's incapable of it, and incapable of the reason or perspective which made him previously think that mages operating without Chantry oversight was a recipe for disaster. The only time he ever takes some control is when he is friends with, or falls in love with, Hawke, because then his goals are different from Justice/Vengeance's and he gains some balance. He even regains some of his playful snark in Act 2's party banter if romanced or befriended. As Justice/Vengeance pushes back, he loses even that.

to:

*** ** If you find it implausible, you may not have been paying attention. Anders' personality change is probably the ''most'' believable progression of his character arc. He's a Spirit Healer. He relies on the benevolent spirits of the Fade to aid his healing work, and trusts them enough to deal with them and channel them. And he's potentially met someone else, another Spirit Healer, who's possessed by a benevolent spirit without ill-effects: Wynne. Justice needs a body, and Anders needs the power to escape, because his options at the end of Awakening are either Tranquility or a Warden order that has suddenly become very unfriendly now that the Hero of Ferelden isn't around to protect him. He trusts Justice, as a Spirit Healer trusts helpful spirits, and Justice really ''doesn't'' doesn't mean harm. This isn't a case of succumbing to a demon's persuasion. persuasion, ''or'' an extremist quest for mage liberation. He was helping a friend. Anders' judgement of Justice's motives wasn't off at all-- it's ''his own'' his own anger which corrupts Justice into Vengeance, Vengeance against Templars, something neither of them foresaw. Justice never meant for this. Anders is never the same again because he's really ''not the same person''. Justice always maintained that he was only the personification of a virtue, nothing else. Anders has become a personification of Vengeance. He literally can't think of anything but mage oppression. He's incapable of it, and incapable of the reason or perspective which made him previously think that mages operating without Chantry oversight was a recipe for disaster. The only time he ever takes some control is when he is friends with, or falls in love with, Hawke, because then his goals are different from Justice/Vengeance's and he gains some balance. He even regains some of his playful snark in Act 2's party banter if romanced or befriended. As Justice/Vengeance pushes back, he loses even that.
21st Nov '15 7:16:25 PM aelfgyve
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** If you find it implausible, you may not have been paying attention. Anders' personality change is probably the ''most'' believable progression of his character arc. He's a Spirit Healer. He relies on the benevolent spirits of the Fade to aid his healing work, and trusts them enough to deal with them and channel them. And he's potentially met someone else, another Spirit Healer, who's possessed by a benevolent spirit without ill-effects: Wynne. Justice needs a body, and Anders needs the power to escape, because his options at the end of Awakening are either Tranquility or a Warden order that has suddenly become very unfriendly now that the Hero of Ferelden isn't around to protect him. He trusts Justice, as a Spirit Healer trusts helpful spirits, and Justice really ''doesn't'' mean harm. This isn't a case of succumbing to a demon's persuasion. Anders' judgement of Justice's motives wasn't off at all-- it's ''his own'' anger which corrupts Justice into Vengeance, something neither of them foresaw. Justice never meant for this. Anders is never the same again because he's really ''not the same person''. Justice always maintained that he was only the personification of a virtue, nothing else. Anders has become a personification of Vengeance. He literally can't think of anything but mage oppression. He's incapable of it, and incapable of the reason or perspective which made him previously think that mages operating without Chantry oversight was a recipe for disaster. The only time he ever takes some control is when he is friends with, or falls in love with, Hawke, because then his goals are different from Justice/Vengeance's and he gains some balance. He even regains some of his playful snark in Act 2's party banter if romanced or befriended. As Justice/Vengeance pushes back, he loses even that.
7th Oct '15 4:42:03 PM Discar
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Hey, person! It's me, every mage enemy in the game! Yeah, that lore thing you read about with teleportation being impossible? That's balogna! [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard Or at least for me it is!]]

to:

*** ** Hey, person! It's me, every mage enemy in the game! Yeah, that lore thing you read about with teleportation being impossible? That's balogna! [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard Or at least for me it is!]]
4th Oct '15 10:55:14 PM The_Last_Brickman
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Hey, person! It's me, every mage enemy in the game! Yeah, that lore thing you read about with teleportation being impossible? That's balogna! [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard Or at least for me it is!]]
28th Sep '15 11:15:11 AM Lightning4119
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* So the Qunari believe that their way is the only correct way to live, that any other cultures live in debauchery and suffering unless brought to the Qun. Yet all of them somehow completely miss that simple fact that one of their greatest enemies, indeed, the most dangerous due to being familiar with the Qun, is the Tal-Vashoth movement. It's not an external enemy, it's the direct result of the Qun itself, without it there wouldn't be any Tal-Vashoth. Why do they still insist on the Qun being the superior ideology if theirs is clearly not perfect too? Why don't they stay in their homeland and imrove their society first, so that it wouldn't give birth to more Tal-Vashoth, instead of coming to Thedas to conquer it and re-educate anyone there to the Qun?

to:

* So the Qunari believe that their way is the only correct way to live, that any other cultures live in debauchery and suffering unless brought to the Qun. Yet all of them somehow completely miss that simple fact that one of their greatest enemies, indeed, the most dangerous due to being familiar with the Qun, is the Tal-Vashoth movement. It's not an external enemy, it's the direct result of the Qun itself, without it there wouldn't be any Tal-Vashoth. Why do they still insist on the Qun being the superior ideology if theirs is clearly not perfect too? Why don't they stay in their homeland and imrove improve their society first, so that it wouldn't give birth to more Tal-Vashoth, instead of coming to Thedas to conquer it and re-educate anyone there to the Qun?



** Getting back to the main issue of this headscratcher entry - the Qun does have a glaring weakness, in that it assumes that anyone who doesn't follow it is the issue. ''Inquisition'' goes farther into this. The attitude seems to be "If you don't like your post that's ''your'' fault, not the fault of the Qun." That basic assumption stems from the idea that you ''have'' to be this role, not your own person, and a lot of people don't feel that way. People who are DesperatelySearchingForAPurposeInLife, sure, they're almost ideal for the Qun. But independent people who want to choose their own path? Not so much. The Qun doesn't even allow for that consideration, it can't even comprehend the issue, which is why the Tal-Vashoth remain a problem.



** Even though a grand total of three characters who can die have come back, one of them (Anders) who only dies off screen in a manner that no other characters witness, one of them (Zeveran) who only comes back to life because of a bug, and one of them (Liliena) who comes back because the DA team pulled a NotQuiteDead.

to:

** Even though a grand total of three characters who can die have come back, one of them (Anders) who only dies off screen in a manner that no other characters witness, one of them (Zeveran) (Zevran) who only comes back to life because of a bug, and one of them (Liliena) (Leliana) who comes back because the DA team pulled a NotQuiteDead.
** It's mentioned (or retconned) that the body that everyone thought was Anders was someone else, and the body was battered beyond recognition. We do know that Justice was accidentally sucked into Kristoff's corpse back in Awakening, and it was a freak accident that probably couldn't be replicated. When he merged with Anders, Anders mentioned that he and Justice are now one, to the point that they can't be separated. Presumably, if you kill Anders, he stays dead, and Justice goes with him.
This list shows the last 10 events of 472. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.DragonAgeII