History Headscratchers / DevilSurvivor

16th Jun '16 11:10:07 PM Ramidel
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** I find God's actions in the 8th Day to be completely in keeping with His actions in Day 1-7. He doesn't ''want'' to push the button on humanity, and His goal in the Ordeal is to bring Belberith under control, preferably by human action. In the Neutral endings, he's just glad that the player wrapped everything up in a neat package, even if he's not entirely happy with the Silent Revolution. But! On Amane's Day 8, Abel has voluntarily decided to bring humanity under God's rule (exercising his own free will) - God is happy, and He's still happy if the PC tells him "chill out, I got this" while wearing an Obama mask. On Yuzu's Day 8, the Shomonkai won, and as far as God's concerned, humanity made their bed and they can lie in it. And on Naoya's Day 8, the King of Bel is using his power to ''actively rebel against God'', and God has no guarantee that the new Overlord isn't going to TakeOverTheWorld through terror and war - in ''this'' scenario, even ''Remiel'' is advocating for Plan B.

to:

** I find God's actions in the 8th Day to be completely in keeping with His actions in Day 1-7. He doesn't ''want'' to push the button on humanity, and His goal in the Ordeal is to bring Belberith under control, preferably by human action. In the Neutral endings, he's just glad that the player wrapped everything up in a neat package, even if he's not entirely happy with the Silent Revolution. But! On Amane's Day 8, Abel has voluntarily decided to bring humanity under God's rule (exercising his own free will) - God is happy, and He's still happy if the PC tells him "chill out, I got this" while wearing an Obama mask. this." On Yuzu's Day 8, the Shomonkai won, and as far as God's concerned, humanity made their bed and they can lie in it. And on Naoya's Day 8, the King of Bel is using his power to ''actively rebel against God'', and God has no guarantee that the new Overlord isn't going to TakeOverTheWorld through terror and war - in ''this'' scenario, even ''Remiel'' is advocating for Plan B.
16th Jun '16 11:09:21 PM Ramidel
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Added DiffLines:

** I find God's actions in the 8th Day to be completely in keeping with His actions in Day 1-7. He doesn't ''want'' to push the button on humanity, and His goal in the Ordeal is to bring Belberith under control, preferably by human action. In the Neutral endings, he's just glad that the player wrapped everything up in a neat package, even if he's not entirely happy with the Silent Revolution. But! On Amane's Day 8, Abel has voluntarily decided to bring humanity under God's rule (exercising his own free will) - God is happy, and He's still happy if the PC tells him "chill out, I got this" while wearing an Obama mask. On Yuzu's Day 8, the Shomonkai won, and as far as God's concerned, humanity made their bed and they can lie in it. And on Naoya's Day 8, the King of Bel is using his power to ''actively rebel against God'', and God has no guarantee that the new Overlord isn't going to TakeOverTheWorld through terror and war - in ''this'' scenario, even ''Remiel'' is advocating for Plan B.
2nd Jan '14 6:27:20 PM Mysterion
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* Did the writers not try to differentiate between the end of the lockdown in Atsuro's route and Gin's? In both it claims that the government covered up the events of the lockdown and no one believed that demons were actually involved. The problem is that in Atsuro's ending it's made very clear that Japan gains a seat on the U.N. Security Council through the use of the demons' military power and that demon-based technology caused another industrial revolution. Not only would it be impossible to hide the existence of demons when Japan's military and industry is based on them, it doesn't even make sense to try.

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* Did the writers not try to differentiate between the end of the lockdown in Atsuro's route and Gin's? In both it claims that the government covered up the events of the lockdown and no one believed that demons were actually involved. The problem is that in Atsuro's ending it's made very clear that Japan gains a seat on the U.N. Security Council through the use of the demons' military power and that demon-based technology caused another industrial revolution. Not only would it be impossible to hide the existence of demons when Japan's military and industry is based on them, it doesn't even make sense to try.try.
** They're trying to hide the fact that their new technology and their initial reactions to it caused hundreds of deaths in the lockdown. I agree that this doesn't seem likely to stick, but it does seem like something they would try.
13th Nov '13 6:08:06 PM EarlOfSandvich
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** But he has nothing to gain by allowing the lockdown to happen if he wants mankind under his thumb, he does it because he wants humanity to be autonomous. If he was YHVH, he would blast Tokyo into smithereens the moment Jikoku was killed and then have the angels strip man of its freedom. Instead, he ordered them not to. What does he gain by assisting the protagonist in Gin's or Atsuro's route, where you banish or control the demons? If he wanted the protagonist to become the Messiah/King of Bel, why doesn't he just refuse to help in Gin's and Atsuro's routes and only assist in Amane's route? If he's the same YHVH, how is still even around what with [[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Nocturne]] and [[ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Strange Journey]] showing that [[spoiler: The Demi-Fiend destroyed the universe, and he's canonically in pieces in Strange Journey?]] He's clearly still all powerful in Devil Survivor. In other parts of this wiki, Devil Survivor's main page included, and this page itself, God's more amicable portrayal is noted several times, so I'm not the only person who noticed it.

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** But he has nothing to gain by allowing the lockdown to happen if he wants mankind under his thumb, he does it because he wants humanity to be autonomous. If he was YHVH, he would blast Tokyo into smithereens the moment Jikoku was killed and then have the angels strip man of its freedom. Instead, he ordered them not to. What does he gain by assisting the protagonist in Gin's or Atsuro's route, where you banish or control the demons? If he wanted the protagonist to become the Messiah/King of Bel, why doesn't he just refuse to help in Gin's and Atsuro's routes and only assist in Amane's route? If he's the same YHVH, how is still even around what with [[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne Nocturne]] and [[ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Strange Journey]] showing that [[spoiler: The Demi-Fiend destroyed the universe, and he's canonically in pieces in Strange Journey?]] He's clearly still all powerful in Devil Survivor. In other parts of this wiki, Devil Survivor's main page included, and this page itself, God's more amicable portrayal is noted several times, so I'm not the only person who noticed it.



** By definition, any trial would bring opposition from humanity. Why would he set the stage of the trial and then give humanity a backdoor out of it if he ultimately wants to bend them to his will? If his power came from human faith, why does he try to destroy the world in Naoya's 8th day and abandon humanity in Yuzu's 8th Day? And that's not even getting into [[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Nocturne]] and [[ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Strange Journey]] showing [[spoiler: the Demi-Fiend destroyed the universe and YHVH himself is in pieces]]. If that's the case, how is he still around for Devil Survivor? There's just too many hoops to jump through if we assume the God here is the same YHVH from the other games in the series. Heck, even Lucifer is different from his MagnificientBastard self in his appearance as a BonusBoss, where he even says that God "gave light and blessings." Would the Lucifer we know ever say anything like that about YHVH?

to:

** By definition, any trial would bring opposition from humanity. Why would he set the stage of the trial and then give humanity a backdoor out of it if he ultimately wants to bend them to his will? If his power came from human faith, why does he try to destroy the world in Naoya's 8th day and abandon humanity in Yuzu's 8th Day? And that's not even getting into [[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne Nocturne]] and [[ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Strange Journey]] showing [[spoiler: the Demi-Fiend destroyed the universe and YHVH himself is in pieces]]. If that's the case, how is he still around for Devil Survivor? There's just too many hoops to jump through if we assume the God here is the same YHVH from the other games in the series. Heck, even Lucifer is different from his MagnificientBastard self in his appearance as a BonusBoss, where he even says that God "gave light and blessings." Would the Lucifer we know ever say anything like that about YHVH?
12th Jul '13 7:09:01 PM GrantMK2
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** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the unworthy are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too. God is not a perfect being. He is a flawed entity just like everything else and his mood or desires can easily change.

to:

** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the unworthy are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too. God is not a perfect being. He is a flawed entity just like everything else and his mood or desires can easily change.change.
* Did the writers not try to differentiate between the end of the lockdown in Atsuro's route and Gin's? In both it claims that the government covered up the events of the lockdown and no one believed that demons were actually involved. The problem is that in Atsuro's ending it's made very clear that Japan gains a seat on the U.N. Security Council through the use of the demons' military power and that demon-based technology caused another industrial revolution. Not only would it be impossible to hide the existence of demons when Japan's military and industry is based on them, it doesn't even make sense to try.
28th Jun '13 2:33:03 PM LokiFenrisulfIV
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Added DiffLines:

** Also, it is explicitly said that people without COMPs are MUCH more fragile that people with them.
30th May '13 11:00:55 PM OmegaRadiance
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** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the weak are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too. God is not a perfect being. He is a flawed entity just like everything else and his mood or desires can easily change.

to:

** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the weak unworthy are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too. God is not a perfect being. He is a flawed entity just like everything else and his mood or desires can easily change.
30th May '13 6:41:09 PM OmegaRadiance
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** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the weak are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too.

to:

** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the weak are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too. God is not a perfect being. He is a flawed entity just like everything else and his mood or desires can easily change.
30th May '13 6:35:12 PM OmegaRadiance
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** Except the angels serve Yosuga, the Chaos equivalent, in Nocturne, with no indication that they've been ordered to do so. You also insist that God couldn't force the world under his rule because he's lost before, but that's what's going to happen if humanity fails the ordeal, something which is outright stated by Remiel to be something God doesn't want, as he wants them to remain autonomous (and for that matter, it's the ''Angels'' who wanted to take over humanity when God told them not to. Why would [[GodIsEvil ''YHVH'']] give his angels the ability to disagree with him?) If Atlus wrote God in Devil Survivor to be the same YHVH, or even on the same level as him, wouldn't they have done so when they originally released Devil Survivor back in 2009, or even hinted at it once?

to:

** Except the angels serve Yosuga, the Chaos equivalent, in Nocturne, with no indication that they've been ordered to do so. You also insist that God couldn't force the world under his rule because he's lost before, but that's what's going to happen if humanity fails the ordeal, something which is outright stated by Remiel to be something God doesn't want, as he wants them to remain autonomous (and for that matter, it's the ''Angels'' who wanted to take over humanity when God told them not to. Why would [[GodIsEvil ''YHVH'']] give his angels the ability to disagree with him?) If Atlus wrote God in Devil Survivor to be the same YHVH, or even on the same level as him, wouldn't they have done so when they originally released Devil Survivor back in 2009, or even hinted at it once?once?
** The three Reasons, including Yosuga, are approved by the Avatar of God Kagutsuchi, who is attempting to strip free will one bit at a time because that's Gods will. It's also heavily elitist, has a strict hierarchy, and the weak are eliminated by default, which are all things Angels approve of. They picked the one that they liked the most and supported it. The Angels like their God are flawed beings and this is a issue for them. While they can disagree with him, they are created to follow his orders regardless, which is why they don't like free will as it allows people to not follow him even when he tells them too.
30th May '13 7:52:28 AM Mr.Badguy
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** Except the angels serve Yosuga, the Chaos equivalent, in Nocturne, with no indication that they've been ordered to do so. You also insist that God couldn't force the world under his rule because he's lost before, but that's what's going to happen if humanity fails the ordeal, something which is outright stated by Remiel to be something God doesn't want, as he wants them to remain autonomous. If Atlus wrote God in Devil Survivor to be the same YHVH, or even on the same level as him, wouldn't they have done so when they originally released Devil Survivor back in 2009, or even hinted at it once?

to:

** Except the angels serve Yosuga, the Chaos equivalent, in Nocturne, with no indication that they've been ordered to do so. You also insist that God couldn't force the world under his rule because he's lost before, but that's what's going to happen if humanity fails the ordeal, something which is outright stated by Remiel to be something God doesn't want, as he wants them to remain autonomous. autonomous (and for that matter, it's the ''Angels'' who wanted to take over humanity when God told them not to. Why would [[GodIsEvil ''YHVH'']] give his angels the ability to disagree with him?) If Atlus wrote God in Devil Survivor to be the same YHVH, or even on the same level as him, wouldn't they have done so when they originally released Devil Survivor back in 2009, or even hinted at it once?once?
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