History Headscratchers / ComicsInGeneral

8th Mar '17 11:46:57 AM mlsmithca
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* As much as I like Marvel Comics (''WesternAnimation/XMen'' and ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'' were two of my favorite shows growing up), there's one aspect of them I can't help but be confused by. One minute, the [[{{Muggles}} ordinary people]] are like "The ComicBook/FantasticFour are mutated superheroes! [[SoCoolItsAwesome They're the coolest people ever]]!" and the next minute they're like "The X-Men are mutated superheroes! [[FantasticRacism They are an insult to humanity and must be destroyed]]!" It's HypocriticalHumor without the humor.

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* As much as I like Marvel Comics (''WesternAnimation/XMen'' and ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'' were two of my favorite shows growing up), there's one aspect of them I can't help but be confused by. One minute, the [[{{Muggles}} ordinary people]] are like "The ComicBook/FantasticFour are mutated superheroes! [[SoCoolItsAwesome They're the coolest people ever]]!" ever!" and the next minute they're like "The X-Men are mutated superheroes! [[FantasticRacism They are an insult to humanity and must be destroyed]]!" It's HypocriticalHumor without the humor.
21st Dec '16 7:14:12 AM DoctorNemesis
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** Look, we can go back and forth on the practicalities on an in-universe level, but ultimately the answer's always going to come back to the fact that superhero comics -- like any form of story -- are a medium for imparting some kind of lesson to their audience, the audience they were originally intended to impart these lessons to were kids, and the people writing them didn't want their readers to grow up with the idea that killing people was an acceptable way to solve your problems. Sure, this might be a slightly simplistic from an adult perspective (although given how bloodthirsty some adult comic readers appear to be, apparently they could do with learning this lesson as well), but mainstream superheroes by nature are by and large rather simplistic from an adult perspective, and there's really no getting around that fact. Frankly, the problem is arguably less that having superheroes abide by ThouShaltNotKill is a bad idea and more that adult comic readers have generally outgrown the rather basic forms of morality represented in superhero comics (at least in their classic Marvel and DC forms) whether they want to admit it or not, and are often trying to force superheroes to grow up with them rather than either (a) admit this is always going to be a problem and enjoy them anyway or (b) move on to something else.

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** Look, we can go back and forth on the practicalities on an in-universe level, but ultimately the answer's always going to come back to the fact that superhero comics -- like any form of story -- are partially a medium for imparting some kind of lesson to their audience, the audience they were originally intended to impart these lessons to were kids, and the people writing them didn't want their readers to grow up with the idea that killing people was an acceptable way to solve your problems. Sure, this might be a slightly simplistic from an adult perspective (although given how bloodthirsty some adult comic readers appear to be, apparently they could do with learning this lesson as well), but mainstream superheroes by nature are by and large rather simplistic from an adult perspective, and there's really no getting around that fact. Frankly, the problem is arguably less that having superheroes abide by ThouShaltNotKill is a bad idea and more that adult comic readers have generally outgrown the rather basic forms of morality represented in superhero comics (at least in their classic Marvel and DC forms) whether they want to admit it or not, and are often trying to force superheroes to grow up with them rather than either (a) admit this is always going to be a problem and enjoy them anyway or (b) move on to something else.
21st Dec '16 7:10:35 AM DoctorNemesis
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** Look, we can go back and forth on the practicalities on an in-universe level, but ultimately the answer's always going to come back to the fact that superhero comics -- like any form of story -- are a medium for imparting some kind of lesson to their audience, the audience they were originally intended to impart these lessons to were kids, and the people writing them didn't want their readers to grow up with the idea that killing people was an acceptable way to solve your problems. Sure, this might be a slightly simplistic from an adult perspective (although given how bloodthirsty some adult comic readers can be, apparently they could do with learning this lesson as well), but mainstream superheroes by nature are by and large rather simplistic from an adult perspective, and there's really no getting around that fact. Frankly, the problem is arguably less that having superheroes abide by ThouShaltNotKill is a bad idea and more that adult comic readers have generally outgrown the rather basic forms of morality represented in superhero comics (at least in their classic Marvel and DC forms) whether they want to admit it or not, and are trying to force superheroes to grow up with them rather than consider moving on to something else.

to:

** Look, we can go back and forth on the practicalities on an in-universe level, but ultimately the answer's always going to come back to the fact that superhero comics -- like any form of story -- are a medium for imparting some kind of lesson to their audience, the audience they were originally intended to impart these lessons to were kids, and the people writing them didn't want their readers to grow up with the idea that killing people was an acceptable way to solve your problems. Sure, this might be a slightly simplistic from an adult perspective (although given how bloodthirsty some adult comic readers can appear to be, apparently they could do with learning this lesson as well), but mainstream superheroes by nature are by and large rather simplistic from an adult perspective, and there's really no getting around that fact. Frankly, the problem is arguably less that having superheroes abide by ThouShaltNotKill is a bad idea and more that adult comic readers have generally outgrown the rather basic forms of morality represented in superhero comics (at least in their classic Marvel and DC forms) whether they want to admit it or not, and are often trying to force superheroes to grow up with them rather than consider moving either (a) admit this is always going to be a problem and enjoy them anyway or (b) move on to something else.
21st Dec '16 7:06:22 AM DoctorNemesis
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to:

** Look, we can go back and forth on the practicalities on an in-universe level, but ultimately the answer's always going to come back to the fact that superhero comics -- like any form of story -- are a medium for imparting some kind of lesson to their audience, the audience they were originally intended to impart these lessons to were kids, and the people writing them didn't want their readers to grow up with the idea that killing people was an acceptable way to solve your problems. Sure, this might be a slightly simplistic from an adult perspective (although given how bloodthirsty some adult comic readers can be, apparently they could do with learning this lesson as well), but mainstream superheroes by nature are by and large rather simplistic from an adult perspective, and there's really no getting around that fact. Frankly, the problem is arguably less that having superheroes abide by ThouShaltNotKill is a bad idea and more that adult comic readers have generally outgrown the rather basic forms of morality represented in superhero comics (at least in their classic Marvel and DC forms) whether they want to admit it or not, and are trying to force superheroes to grow up with them rather than consider moving on to something else.
28th May '16 8:23:56 PM Doug86
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*** Not really. Comics died ''hard'' in the '70s, and it wasn't until 1977/1978 (releases of Franchise/StarWars and its comic adaptation and Film/{{Superman}}) that things started to pick up again. Most of the kitschy 70's stuff (like the above two, Claremont's here-there-and-everywhere storytelling on ComicBook/{{X-Men}}, and crossover titles like ''Comicbook/TheTombOfDracula'') was an attempt by the companies to abandon the FleetingDemographic model of past days and hold onto older fans.

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*** Not really. Comics died ''hard'' in the '70s, and it wasn't until 1977/1978 (releases of Franchise/StarWars and its comic adaptation and Film/{{Superman}}) that things started to pick up again. Most of the kitschy 70's stuff (like the above two, Claremont's here-there-and-everywhere storytelling on ComicBook/{{X-Men}}, ComicBook/Men, and crossover titles like ''Comicbook/TheTombOfDracula'') was an attempt by the companies to abandon the FleetingDemographic model of past days and hold onto older fans.
16th Mar '16 4:11:16 AM DoctorNemesis
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*** But that is probably because the book publishing industry is several magnitudes larger than the comic publishing industry, and thus encompasses a heck of a lot more things to talk about, of which the Star Wars books form a comparative drop in the ocean. And even then, it's still technically an accurate use of the term (if a potentially more confusing one in this case); the Star Wars books are still books, so while the question in this example is not entirely clear to someone not familiar with Jedis, it is still referring to a series of books. In any case, the Star Wars books do not dominate the publishing industry to nearly the same degree that superhero comics dominate the comics industry in many parts of the western world at least (particular America and those areas with comics industries that draw heavily on the American comics industry for content / inspiration) and, even in many places where they do not, are still closely associated with the comics medium as a whole, so the equivalent question "why are there so many superheroes in comics?" makes a lot more sense because it is an accurate reflection of the state of affairs in many people's experience (not to mention that asking "why are there so many superheroes in superhero comics", as well as being needlessly pedantic, is also redundant; since superheroes are the whole point of superhero comics, no one would ask why there were so many in that particular genre anyway). Plus, like it or not, superhero comics are still comics; it is still an accurate, if limiting, use of the term.

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*** But that is probably because the book publishing industry is several magnitudes larger than the comic publishing industry, and thus encompasses a heck of a lot more things to talk about, of which the Star Wars books form a comparative drop in the ocean. And even then, it's still technically an accurate use of the term (if a potentially more confusing one in this case); the Star Wars books are still books, so while the question in this example is not entirely clear to someone not familiar with Jedis, it is still referring to a series of books. In any case, the Star Wars books do not dominate the publishing industry to nearly the same degree that superhero comics dominate the comics industry in many parts of the western world at least (particular America and those areas with comics industries that draw heavily on the American comics industry for content / inspiration) and, even in many places where they do not, are still closely associated with the comics medium as a whole, so the equivalent question "why are there so many superheroes in comics?" makes a lot more sense because it is an accurate reflection of the state of affairs in many people's experience (not experience. Not to mention that asking "why are there so many superheroes in superhero comics", as well as being needlessly pedantic, is also redundant; since superheroes are the whole point of superhero comics, no one would ask why there were so many in that particular genre anyway).anyway. Plus, like it or not, superhero comics are still comics; it is still an accurate, if limiting, use of the term.
16th Mar '16 4:00:12 AM DoctorNemesis
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*** But this gets into the issue of practicality; in an ideal world, yeah, a writer would only work with characters they were interested in, but given the demands of a SharedUniverse with hundreds and hundreds of characters and bucketloads of continuity and interactions between those characters that has to be addressed, this is nothing but a pipe-dream; you're always going to have to deal with characters you might not particularly care for.

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*** But this gets into the issue of practicality; in an ideal world, yeah, a writer would only work with characters they were interested in, but given the demands of a SharedUniverse with hundreds and hundreds of characters and bucketloads of continuity and interactions between those characters that has to be addressed, this is nothing but a pipe-dream; you're always going to have to deal with characters you might not particularly care for. Plus, there's also no guarantee you're only going to get to work on the books featuring the characters you love, particularly if you're just starting out on your career. Everyone wants to write Batman, but not everyone can.
28th Feb '16 7:49:04 PM nombretomado
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** There are however cases where killing the criminal can be the only way to save innocent lives. Take ComicBook/MaximumCarnage for example - heroes spends so much time driving point how they can't kill Carnage, how it will make them as bad as him, while they cannot stop him otherwise. Spider-Man and CaptainAmerica have blood of dozens of innocents on their hands just because they wanted to have moral higher ground. I'm not against no-kill policy, but maybye superheroes shouldn't hold to it so fanatically?

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** There are however cases where killing the criminal can be the only way to save innocent lives. Take ComicBook/MaximumCarnage for example - heroes spends so much time driving point how they can't kill Carnage, how it will make them as bad as him, while they cannot stop him otherwise. Spider-Man and CaptainAmerica ComicBook/CaptainAmerica have blood of dozens of innocents on their hands just because they wanted to have moral higher ground. I'm not against no-kill policy, but maybye superheroes shouldn't hold to it so fanatically?
8th Feb '16 9:48:04 AM Jgorgon
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** The main zeitgeist of the Modern Age is a Silver Age reconstruction, after the deconstruction of the Dark Age.
8th Jan '16 4:29:31 PM nombretomado
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* As much as I like Marvel Comics (''WesternAnimation/{{X-Men}}'' and ''SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'' were two of my favorite shows growing up :) ), there's one aspect of them I can't help but be confused by. One minute, the [[{{Muggles}} ordinary people]] are like "The ComicBook/FantasticFour are mutated superheroes! [[SoCoolItsAwesome They're the coolest people ever]]!" and the next minute they're like "The X-Men are mutated superheroes! [[FantasticRacism They are an insult to humanity and must be destroyed]]!" It's HypocriticalHumor without the humor.

to:

* As much as I like Marvel Comics (''WesternAnimation/{{X-Men}}'' (''WesternAnimation/XMen'' and ''SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'' ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'' were two of my favorite shows growing up :) ), up), there's one aspect of them I can't help but be confused by. One minute, the [[{{Muggles}} ordinary people]] are like "The ComicBook/FantasticFour are mutated superheroes! [[SoCoolItsAwesome They're the coolest people ever]]!" and the next minute they're like "The X-Men are mutated superheroes! [[FantasticRacism They are an insult to humanity and must be destroyed]]!" It's HypocriticalHumor without the humor.
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