History Headscratchers / CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne

23rd Apr '17 12:11:05 PM ExarchofSechrima
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** The more and more extreme Knightmare Frames as the series goes on (NO, Gino, having your robot transform into a plane isn't needed whatsoever, try again) actually makes a lot of sense when you take a look at who's using them. On the empire's side, the only Knightmares that have a bunch of wacky designs and add-ons, with the exception of prototypes Lancelot and Gawain, are used solely by Britannian Royalty (Cornelia's Gloucester) and Knights of the Round. The kind of people with the ranking and power to have machines designed to their specifications, looking the way they want. Compare the flashy black and gold Gawain with the Gareths that were created from it's design, or the Lancelot and offshoot Vincents. Clearly, Britannia still is primarily concerned with utilitarianism and mass production. Even on the side of the Black Knights, we have the Guren, Shen Hu, Shinkiro, and Zangetsu, all designed by Rakshata, and the Siegfried, a specially modified siege weapon designed by Britannia and [[BrickJoke presumably painted orange because someone in R&D had a real sick sense of humor.]] Basically, the flashy Knightmare designs call back to historical knights, who would have intricately designed armor, shields, and swords, paid for by either their lord or out of their own pocket. They weren't cost-efficient for mass-production, but were a symbol of their value as knights. Basically, R2 is when Lelouch stopped fighting fodder units and started having to face Knights of the Round, and the designers started getting flashy. The battles between the more militaristic mass-produced units are still there, only we're following the protagonists who all use the special ones.
28th Feb '17 8:41:18 PM AJSthe2nd
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**** Two reasons. First off, Suzaku is a Knight of the Round. They can do whatever the hell they want and only the Emperor has the authority to rebuke them. Luciano deliberately crashed one of his own ships as a weapon, killed his own troops as shields and was going to destroy a very vaulable test machine with or without authorization and it's implied he does stuff like this all the time. Suzaku himself was told that despite the massive losses he cost Britannia as a result of not telling anyone about the stuff he knew about Zero and Geass, he was beyond even the crown prince's authority to punish, so all they could really do was tell Suzaku how much trouble he caused them and hope he felt guilty about it. And it's not like Charles could care less. Admittedly nuking millions of his own people would probably be pushing it as far as stuff a Round could get away with and might have caused a massive backlash against the Emperor and Rounds system, but likely to prevent that that second reason is it was said that official story was Guilford fired it. Since he seemingly died in the blast he took the blame with him and by the time he resurfaced the world had much bigger problems with Emperor Lelouch.
14th Jan '17 5:45:16 PM Chillpenguin411
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** CAUTION: Unmarked spoilers
23rd Oct '16 7:33:02 PM dlchen145
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* Why do people think it was so horrible and bitchy for Kallen to [[spoiler: go and kiss Lelouch]] in R2 episode 22? Come ON, an ActionGirl has ''right'' to have a more sensitive side, so [[spoiler: smooching him]] does NOT make her automatically less BadAss.

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* Why do people think it was so horrible and bitchy for Kallen to [[spoiler: go and kiss Lelouch]] in R2 episode 22? Come ON, an ActionGirl has ''right'' to have a more sensitive side, so [[spoiler: smooching him]] does NOT make her automatically less BadAss.badass.
7th Jul '16 2:06:15 PM Willbyr
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*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[note]][[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]][[/note]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.

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*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' ''Code Geass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[note]][[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]][[/note]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.



*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[Manga/InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[Anime/YuGiOh Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.

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*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[Manga/InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[Anime/YuGiOh Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass ''Code Geass'' simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.



*** This is ''CodeGeass''. There's no such thing as a totally "good" character [[spoiler: and if there is, [[KillTheCutie you're]] [[DiabolusExMachina basically]] [[DroppedABridgeOnHim screwed]]]].

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*** This is ''CodeGeass''.''Code Geass''. There's no such thing as a totally "good" character [[spoiler: and if there is, [[KillTheCutie you're]] [[DiabolusExMachina basically]] [[DroppedABridgeOnHim screwed]]]].
17th Jun '16 5:53:43 PM ExarchofSechrima
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**** Suzaku's punishment actually fits perfectly with his character arc, actually, and by the end I felt just as bad for him as I did for Lelouch. As punishment for his crimes, including [[spoiler:killing his best friend, he is denied what he believed his only means of redemption for killing his father (suicide) and forced to live the rest of his life as Zero. Every time the people call him a hero, he's reminded of the REAL Zero, the man he killed, who TRULY brought peace to the world, and who was rewarded for it by being known as the most hated man in the world, a facade that must be maintained for the sake of world peace. Suzaku is forced to live the rest of his life known to the world as the "hero" who "brought peace to the world" by killing "the evil king" Lelouch, even though he (and no one else, to his knowledge) knows that Lelouch arranged for himself to be hated so he could be killed to bring peace to the world - by Suzaku's own hand, no less.]]
3rd May '16 4:08:57 PM Willbyr
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** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.

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** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, ''[[Manga/CodeGeassNightmareOfNunnally Nightmare of Nunnally]]'', [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.
3rd Apr '16 8:50:39 PM GuiRitter
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** Plus, Lelouch is only playing the role of an autocratic dictator, so conditions after his death could be rather different than the conditions that that follow the death of a real-world dictator. In particular, since he only intends to stay in power for a few months, he can pick and choose who he goes after. For example, he could give his successors a leg up by ruthlessly crushing powerhungry and extreamist groups while alowing moderate and pro-democracy groups to slip under the radar. Also, if he fosters many small pro-democracy revolutionary groups in every contry he might be able to stop any one person from gaining too much power. Additionally, he has the power to force potential revolutionaries to support his Zero plan, via geass.

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** Plus, Lelouch is only playing the role of an autocratic dictator, so conditions after his death could be rather different than the conditions that that follow the death of a real-world dictator. In particular, since he only intends to stay in power for a few months, he can pick and choose who he goes after. For example, he could give his successors a leg up by ruthlessly crushing powerhungry and extreamist extremist groups while alowing moderate and pro-democracy groups to slip under the radar. Also, if he fosters many small pro-democracy revolutionary groups in every contry he might be able to stop any one person from gaining too much power. Additionally, he has the power to force potential revolutionaries to support his Zero plan, via geass.
3rd Apr '16 8:42:25 PM GuiRitter
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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series

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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow alldouow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series



*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.

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*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue Suzaku did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse Zero does damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.



*** True, but comapre this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse not like them either because they are week especially her mother(even though she douse gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.

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*** True, but comapre compare this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse does not like them either because they are week weak especially her mother(even mother (even though she douse does gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.
3rd Apr '16 8:35:57 PM GuiRitter
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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series

to:

* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series



*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[WomanScorned trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse he started acting (from her, [[LockedOutOfTheLoop un-informed]], point of view) like a monster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what Lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse he wants to protect her. so kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.

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*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[WomanScorned trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse because he started acting (from her, [[LockedOutOfTheLoop un-informed]], point of view) like a monster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what Lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse because he wants to protect her. so kallen Kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent tyrant conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse because she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.
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