History Headscratchers / CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne

7th Jul '16 2:06:15 PM Willbyr
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*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[note]][[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]][[/note]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.

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*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' ''Code Geass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[note]][[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]][[/note]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.



*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[Manga/InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[Anime/YuGiOh Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.

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*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[Manga/InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[Anime/YuGiOh Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass ''Code Geass'' simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.



*** This is ''CodeGeass''. There's no such thing as a totally "good" character [[spoiler: and if there is, [[KillTheCutie you're]] [[DiabolusExMachina basically]] [[DroppedABridgeOnHim screwed]]]].

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*** This is ''CodeGeass''.''Code Geass''. There's no such thing as a totally "good" character [[spoiler: and if there is, [[KillTheCutie you're]] [[DiabolusExMachina basically]] [[DroppedABridgeOnHim screwed]]]].
17th Jun '16 5:53:43 PM ExarchofSechrima
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**** Suzaku's punishment actually fits perfectly with his character arc, actually, and by the end I felt just as bad for him as I did for Lelouch. As punishment for his crimes, including [[spoiler:killing his best friend, he is denied what he believed his only means of redemption for killing his father (suicide) and forced to live the rest of his life as Zero. Every time the people call him a hero, he's reminded of the REAL Zero, the man he killed, who TRULY brought peace to the world, and who was rewarded for it by being known as the most hated man in the world, a facade that must be maintained for the sake of world peace. Suzaku is forced to live the rest of his life known to the world as the "hero" who "brought peace to the world" by killing "the evil king" Lelouch, even though he (and no one else, to his knowledge) knows that Lelouch arranged for himself to be hated so he could be killed to bring peace to the world - by Suzaku's own hand, no less.]]
3rd May '16 4:08:57 PM Willbyr
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** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.

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** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, ''[[Manga/CodeGeassNightmareOfNunnally Nightmare of Nunnally]]'', [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.
3rd Apr '16 8:50:39 PM GuiRitter
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** Plus, Lelouch is only playing the role of an autocratic dictator, so conditions after his death could be rather different than the conditions that that follow the death of a real-world dictator. In particular, since he only intends to stay in power for a few months, he can pick and choose who he goes after. For example, he could give his successors a leg up by ruthlessly crushing powerhungry and extreamist groups while alowing moderate and pro-democracy groups to slip under the radar. Also, if he fosters many small pro-democracy revolutionary groups in every contry he might be able to stop any one person from gaining too much power. Additionally, he has the power to force potential revolutionaries to support his Zero plan, via geass.

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** Plus, Lelouch is only playing the role of an autocratic dictator, so conditions after his death could be rather different than the conditions that that follow the death of a real-world dictator. In particular, since he only intends to stay in power for a few months, he can pick and choose who he goes after. For example, he could give his successors a leg up by ruthlessly crushing powerhungry and extreamist extremist groups while alowing moderate and pro-democracy groups to slip under the radar. Also, if he fosters many small pro-democracy revolutionary groups in every contry he might be able to stop any one person from gaining too much power. Additionally, he has the power to force potential revolutionaries to support his Zero plan, via geass.
3rd Apr '16 8:42:25 PM GuiRitter
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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series

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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow alldouow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series



*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.

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*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue Suzaku did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse Zero does damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.



*** True, but comapre this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse not like them either because they are week especially her mother(even though she douse gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.

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*** True, but comapre compare this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse does not like them either because they are week weak especially her mother(even mother (even though she douse does gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.
3rd Apr '16 8:35:57 PM GuiRitter
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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series

to:

* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological bbeiological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series



*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[WomanScorned trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse he started acting (from her, [[LockedOutOfTheLoop un-informed]], point of view) like a monster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what Lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse he wants to protect her. so kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.

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*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[WomanScorned trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse because he started acting (from her, [[LockedOutOfTheLoop un-informed]], point of view) like a monster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what Lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse because he wants to protect her. so kallen Kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent tyrant conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse because she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.
3rd Apr '16 1:46:37 PM GuiRitter
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*** He didn't have to have noticed Schniezel was there. He should have noticed the [=BKs=], and that should have been enough for him to Geass everybody in the area, including Schniezel and Kanon. After all, the [=BKs=] only ''fired the bullets he kept from hitting Lelouch''. And killing Schniezel while he had his senses stopped by the Geass so that he couldn't speak or anything would have shut down the ability of the mutiny to threaten either him or Lelouch, since he'd have a far easier time sneaking Lelouch out if needed. Really, the scene made the PlotArmor of both Schniezel and the [=BKs=] crystal clear at that point, because Rolo ''killed [[WhatMeasureIsAMook random soldiers]]'' during the escape so that he could evacuate Lelouch. The BKs would have been random soldiers to him, since it's Lelouch he's attached to, not them.

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*** He didn't have to have noticed Schniezel Schneizel was there. He should have noticed the [=BKs=], and that should have been enough for him to Geass everybody in the area, including Schniezel Schneizel and Kanon. After all, the [=BKs=] only ''fired the bullets he kept from hitting Lelouch''. And killing Schniezel Schneizel while he had his senses stopped by the Geass so that he couldn't speak or anything would have shut down the ability of the mutiny to threaten either him or Lelouch, since he'd have a far easier time sneaking Lelouch out if needed. Really, the scene made the PlotArmor of both Schniezel Schneizel and the [=BKs=] crystal clear at that point, because Rolo ''killed [[WhatMeasureIsAMook random soldiers]]'' during the escape so that he could evacuate Lelouch. The BKs would have been random soldiers to him, since it's Lelouch he's attached to, not them.



** Lelouch tried to seal himself for eternity with his father, Suzaku tried to kill the Emperor and become the most powerful Knight in Britannia, Nina stood around ground Zero for at least an entire day, The Order decided to enter negotiations with the people who had oppressed and killed them,and everyone else was just trying to bury what remained of the dead. I'd hardly call any of the principle characters reactions normal, and in fact the general public reaction was quite a bit like episode 12 of the first season. As for Schniezel, he was counting on FLEIJA being used from the start, no surprise he wasn't affected by it.

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** Lelouch tried to seal himself for eternity with his father, Suzaku tried to kill the Emperor and become the most powerful Knight in Britannia, Nina stood around ground Zero for at least an entire day, The Order decided to enter negotiations with the people who had oppressed and killed them,and everyone else was just trying to bury what remained of the dead. I'd hardly call any of the principle characters reactions normal, and in fact the general public reaction was quite a bit like episode 12 of the first season. As for Schniezel, Schneizel, he was counting on FLEIJA being used from the start, no surprise he wasn't affected by it.
3rd Apr '16 11:55:10 AM GuiRitter
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*** There are a lot of people who have sided with Britannia, and even view Gino as an okay guy, mistaking his [[UpperClassTwit cluelessness]] for [[HarmlessVillain harmless idiocy]], ignoring some of his declarations (he often believed that mass violation of Britannian law was a pretext to a purge) and his [[CombatPragmatist questionable and dangerous battle tactics]]. Not as {{egregrious}}, though still suspicious, is the praise Guilford himself gets. While he is honorable and sympathetic, many of his fans mistake his valor for heroism. While he doesn't kick any dogs, he certainly doesn't go out of his way to help improve things, from being the knight of the brutal [[TheBaroness Cornelia]], and eventually being a more benign case of ObstructiveBureaucrat in R2. Evidently, he scored sympathy points after getting geassed by Lelouch (which ended up being out of necessity), almost getting caught in the F.L.E.I.J.A., losing his sight, and finally making it back to Cornelia. That he stands in the way of most efforts towards peace, whether or not by his own design, are overlooked.

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*** There are a lot of people who have sided with Britannia, and even view Gino as an okay guy, mistaking his [[UpperClassTwit cluelessness]] for [[HarmlessVillain harmless idiocy]], ignoring some of his declarations (he often believed that mass violation of Britannian law was a pretext to a purge) and his [[CombatPragmatist questionable and dangerous battle tactics]]. Not as {{egregrious}}, {{egregious}}, though still suspicious, is the praise Guilford himself gets. While he is honorable and sympathetic, many of his fans mistake his valor for heroism. While he doesn't kick any dogs, he certainly doesn't go out of his way to help improve things, from being the knight of the brutal [[TheBaroness Cornelia]], and eventually being a more benign case of ObstructiveBureaucrat in R2. Evidently, he scored sympathy points after getting geassed by Lelouch (which ended up being out of necessity), almost getting caught in the F.L.E.I.J.A., losing his sight, and finally making it back to Cornelia. That he stands in the way of most efforts towards peace, whether or not by his own design, are overlooked.
3rd Apr '16 11:49:28 AM GuiRitter
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** First off, he's the protagonist, so we're automatically going to want to like him and give him the benefit of the doubt. So, we're far more willing to forgive him for doing nasty things than if the story were told from a different point of view. Next off, he's fighting against the evil empire that's busy discriminating against everyone else and trying to take over the world. And probably most of all, he's just plain ''cool.'' I mean, sure he does things that he really shouldn't. He's not necessarily the nicest guy. But he's a [[MagnicentBastard genius]] and is constantly pulling [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome crowning moments of awesome]]. So much of what he does is just plain ''[[RuleOfCool cool]].'' So, while you may not always agree with his methods, he's so cool that much of the time it just plain doesn't matter - or at least you let it slide. He also has a much better attitude about things than Suzaku does. He's a bit narcissistic, but he fully acknowledges that what he's doing isn't necessarily nice. And, as Diethard pointed, ''he gets results.'' Lelouch may be too willing to be nasty at times, but he's definitely cool.

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** First off, he's the protagonist, so we're automatically going to want to like him and give him the benefit of the doubt. So, we're far more willing to forgive him for doing nasty things than if the story were told from a different point of view. Next off, he's fighting against the evil empire that's busy discriminating against everyone else and trying to take over the world. And probably most of all, he's just plain ''cool.'' I mean, sure he does things that he really shouldn't. He's not necessarily the nicest guy. But he's a [[MagnicentBastard [[MagnificentBastard genius]] and is constantly pulling [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome crowning moments of awesome]]. So much of what he does is just plain ''[[RuleOfCool cool]].'' So, while you may not always agree with his methods, he's so cool that much of the time it just plain doesn't matter - or at least you let it slide. He also has a much better attitude about things than Suzaku does. He's a bit narcissistic, but he fully acknowledges that what he's doing isn't necessarily nice. And, as Diethard pointed, ''he gets results.'' Lelouch may be too willing to be nasty at times, but he's definitely cool.
3rd Apr '16 11:42:19 AM GuiRitter
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* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people they were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series

to:

* In the first episode terrorist attack and steal biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people they thnatruiey were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series



** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirley died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.

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** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, natural, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirley died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne