History Headscratchers / BuffySeason6

22nd Apr '16 3:02:21 PM aidansean
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** Anya was focusing on reciting the spell and holding the shop's most valuable book (both in terms of utility and probably monetary value) at the time. Stopping reciting the spell to fight with Willow might break the protection covering Andrew and Jonathan, so Anya waited until the final second, by which time it was too late to fight back.
3rd Apr '16 2:54:42 PM ading
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** I thought it was particularly glaring that Willow during her brutal honesty speeches that she didn't call out the other character for their brushed under the rug killings and attempted killings, like Buffy, after Faith almost kills Angel, Buffy stabs Faith in the stomach, Faith was human she only lived because she fell off the roof, if she hadn't Buffy would have drained the bitch and fed her blood to Angel, then all those {{Well Intentioned Extremist}} she kills in Season 5 they were human too, and depending on your perspective they were the damn good guys, and again with Buffy trying to murder everyone in "Normal Again"(Jesus Buffy should have been put down months before Willow turned dark). I also always got the feeling that when Giles tells Ben that Buffy is not like them, that Giles might have killed his fair share of people. and Xander with his summoning of Sweets which killed a few people, people that wouldn't have died if Xander had done nothing. Anya and Spike who between the two of them have a millenniums worth of death and destruction between them. It just seems that there tons of actual conflict (Emotional Conflict not actual violence because in all honesty the 4 or 5 non-punches that Buffy and Willow threw just seemed a little weird) the story line could have brought up, but instead it showed the I don't know long awaited fight between Willow and Buffy, I don't know because I didn't watch the show when it first aired so I don't know if that was a real thing people were buzzing about.

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** I thought it was particularly glaring that Willow during her brutal honesty speeches that she didn't call out the other character for their brushed under the rug killings and attempted killings, like Buffy, after Faith almost kills Angel, Buffy stabs Faith in the stomach, stomach. Faith was human human, she only lived because she fell off the roof, roof; if she hadn't Buffy would have drained the bitch and fed her blood to Angel, then Angel. Then all those {{Well Intentioned Extremist}} she kills in Season 5 5, they were human too, and depending on your perspective they were the damn good guys, and again with Buffy trying to murder everyone in "Normal Again"(Jesus Buffy should have been put down months before Willow turned dark). I also always got the feeling that when Giles tells Ben that Buffy is not like them, that Giles might have killed his fair share of people. people, and Xander with his summoning of Sweets Sweet which killed a few people, people that wouldn't have died if Xander had done nothing. Anya and Spike who Spike, between the two of them them, have a millenniums worth of death and destruction between them. It just seems that there was tons of actual conflict (Emotional Conflict not actual violence because in all honesty the 4 or 5 non-punches that Buffy and Willow threw just seemed a little weird) the story line could have brought up, but instead it showed the the, I don't know know, long awaited fight between Willow and Buffy, Buffy? I don't know because I didn't watch the show when it first aired aired, so I don't know if that was a real thing people were buzzing about.about.
*** Buffy wasn't saying that taking a human life under any circumstances is unforgivable. She will kill in self-defence or in the defense of innocent lives, but she is not an executioner; she won't kill a human in cold blood simply because "they deserve it". Buffy trying to kill Faith wasn't to avenge Angel, it was because she needed to feed Angel slayer blood in order to cure him. She killed the Knights of Byzantium to defend herself and Dawn, it was not a premeditated murder. Buffy was undergoing temporary insanity in "Normal Again", so she can't really be held responsible for her actions, and bringing it up wouldn't exactly prove anything since no one, including Buffy, would really dispute that Buffy had been in the wrong at the time. Xander's killings were accidental, again he never murdered someone in cold blood, and even so he had already acknowledged in previous episodes that he was in the wrong, so invoking it would not justify anything. Giles only got involved after Willow started targeting people whose only crime was being friends with Warren, so by that point any attempt to argue that her victims "deserved it" had gone out the window, but we don't know if he's actually killed a number of people (or if so, whether or not Willow knows) and what the circumstances were, so it's unclear how justified this was. Spike never had any conflict with Dark Willow, and even if he did everyone knew he was evil, so comparing him to Dark Willow would if anything support the idea that Willow was in the wrong. Anya only killed people when she was a demon, so bringing that up would hardly make Willow look any better. Bringing any of these things up would be less brutal honesty and more petty rules-lawyering.
2nd Apr '16 6:51:49 AM ading
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*** You misunderstand. Buffy went to Heaven, I know that, but there's no reason to think that ''all'' good people go to Heaven. Actually, given that all instances we've seen of people going to Heaven[=/=]Hell have involved inter-dimensional portals, who says Heaven and Hell are even afterlives at all? Maybe most people just cease to exist after they die, and it's only the bizarre circumstances of Buffy's death that allowed her soul to go ''anywhere''. Both Willow and Osiris claim that being killed by "mystical energy" as Buffy was has a fundamentally different effect on the person than mundane deaths like getting shot, which is why Willow couldn't bring back Tara. Also-nowhere are any of the Scoobies stated to be Christian. And given that there are ''multiple'' Heavens and ''multiple'' Hells in this universe it's pretty clear that if they are afterlives they're not the Christian ones.
28th Mar '16 6:32:57 PM SeanRenaud
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*** There actually is reason to believe that Buffy wasn't really in Hell. Over on Angel Skip mentions that nobody comes back from paradise except a slayer once. She's not mentioned by name but it's implied that Skip was referring to Buffy. We have no reason at all to believe Skip was lying about that. All signs point to Jasmine really was a Power that Be/Was/a "Good" guy. Nothing of course is confirmed in this or really most fiction about if good automatically goes to Heaven or even how good you have to be. The Scoobies (minus Jewish Willow) are nominally Christian though and most likely believe that you do go to a Heaven if you were good. Buffy's specific circumstances, not just in death (dying to a wierd portal could do anything) and being a slayer could also have had reprocussions. We're shown repeatedly that the forces of evil tend to be proactive where as the forces of good are at best reactive as a whole.
28th Mar '16 1:20:41 PM ading
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**** You are correct re: Angel, but regardless of why the Scoobies brought Buffy back the fact remains that nobody, at any point, even after most of the cast has acknowledged that it was wrong to bring Buffy back, questions that Buffy ''could'' have gone to Hell. If good guys do automatically go to a Heaven dimension (which is unconfirmed), it's pretty clear that none of the main characters are aware of that. There's no reason to think that just because Buffy wasn't really in Hell all good guys go to Heaven any more than there is to assume that because this paragraph isn't typed in French all paragraphs are in English.
27th Mar '16 8:47:52 AM SeanRenaud
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**** Angel didn't die in Season 2. A metal sword to the heart is non-fatal for a vampire and that exact same wound is played for laughs in Angel S5. Even Angel seems more annoyed that Spike wanted to stab the creature THROUGH him than hurt. Acaltha opened a gate because of the ceremony and Buffy pushes a bleeding Angel through it. Turns out if your blood (and apparently Dawn is made of Buffy so they share blood) opens a portal it can close a portal. But Angel no more died and went to ''a'' hell than he would several seasons later to Pylea. Buffy did not go to a Hell dimension and it's heavily implied that the Scoobies brought her back because they wanted to play super hero, not because it was at all morally justified. We don't know for sure that good guys go to good places but it seems a decent guess.
27th Mar '16 8:27:12 AM ading
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**** First of all, there isn't ''a'' Heaven and ''a'' Hell, there are a number of Heaven dimensions and a number of Hell dimensions. Secondly, neither Willow, Tara, nor Xander are skeptical of the claim that Buffy went to a Hell dimension when she died in Season 5, and Angel actually *did* go to a Hell dimension when he died in Season 2, so we can't assume that just because Tara was one of the good guys that she went to a Heaven dimension.
27th Mar '16 8:16:16 AM ading
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** It's not a metaphor, Willow is literally trying to commit suicide.
27th Mar '16 7:16:11 AM ading
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*** Willow says that Buffy might be in a Hell dimension ''because'' she was killed by mystical energy, so yes, only those who die mystical deaths go to Hell or Heavenly dimensions.
27th Mar '16 6:59:27 AM ading
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** Anya pretty much altered reality when Cordelia wished that Buffy had never come to SunnyDale, changing who knows how many lives, how many different people lived and died, why was it never brought up that Willow simply wish Tara back from the dead or if that didn't work because of some contrived rule about not bring back natural deaths, wish for a scenario that means it never happened to begin with, like Warren was not allowed to buy a gun, or Warren was blinded in his fight with Buffy, there are hundreds of ways to have fixed it. I mean it would've really taken the impact of Tara's death away, but it still would've shown that Willow has a very dark side that she needs to control, without all the angst that carried over to Season 7. It just seemed like the Scoobies were collectively carrying a giant {{Idiot Ball}}.
*** I don't think Warren being blinded and thus having worse aim would do much to save Tara from a wild and random shot.

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** Anya pretty much altered reality when Cordelia wished that Buffy had never come to SunnyDale, Sunnydale, changing who knows how many lives, how many different people lived and died, why was it never brought up that Willow simply wish Tara back from the dead or if that didn't work because of some contrived rule about not bring back natural deaths, wish for a scenario that means it never happened to begin with, like Warren was not allowed to buy a gun, or Warren was blinded in his fight with Buffy, there are hundreds of ways to have fixed it. I mean it would've really taken the impact of Tara's death away, but it still would've shown that Willow has a very dark side that she needs to control, without all the angst that carried over to Season 7. It just seemed like the Scoobies were collectively carrying a giant {{Idiot Ball}}.
*** I don't think Warren being blinded and thus having worse aim would do much to save Tara from a wild and random shot. shot.
*** Anya's a ''vengeance'' demon. Presumably her reality-warping abilities can only be used to wreak vengeance.
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