History Headscratchers / BlazBlue

5th Jul '17 4:30:36 PM Ogiga99
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* I get that Hazama is aware of time loops repeating themselves, but is Relius? His CS Arcade mode makes it clear he knows about them, but can he feel them? StableTimeLoop ensures that they become friends each time, I can get that, but does Hazama have to explain the nature of the time loops to him every time? Come to think of it, how stable is the time loop? Does Hazama have to put effort into finding Relius each time, because that implies there would be some loops when they miss each other.

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** Don't forget that Terumi, Relius and Izanami are basically in control of the NOL. Jin and Noel having those weapons is within the scope of their plans so they can easily make it so that no one questions their use with a simple order from the Imperator.
* I get that Hazama is aware of time loops repeating themselves, but is Relius? His CS Arcade mode makes it clear he knows about them, but can he feel them? StableTimeLoop ensures that they become friends each time, I can get that, but does Hazama have to explain the nature of the time loops to him every time? Come to think of it, how stable is the time loop? Does Hazama have to put effort into finding Relius each time, because that implies there would be some loops when they miss each other.other.
** As far as I can tell, Relius does not remember each time loop. He isn't an Onlooker like Rachel or a special being like Terumi so their is no reason to assume he can remember. However, inside the loops he is definitely aware they are happening since he is aware of the Master Unit and its Interventions. I doubt Terumi (and it's important to note that everyone being talked about is in regards to Terumi, not Hazama) needs to explain it since Relius is smart enough to figure it out on his own. Terumi doesn't need to become friends with Relius each time because they knew each other before the time loops start. They were the ones (alongside Shuichiro Ayatsuki) who were performing the experiment to smelt a Kusanagi that released the Black Beast in the first place. Since they knew each other before January 1st 2100 (the start of the time loop), they will always know each other. As for missing each other, that is impossible because as we see in Relius's Continuum Shift story, Terumi knows exactly where Relius will pop out of the Cauldron that the Black Beast knocked him into so Terumi can easily meet with him.
5th Jul '17 4:17:15 AM 1810072342
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*** Come to think of it, are they even aware that Relius is away from his research post? Or is he citing it as 'field work' when he actually means 'trying to find a MagicNuke'? Then again, the Imperator hardly disapproves of what he's working on in the field...
** It's worth noting that Hazama does the 'Knights of the Blue Flame' creed when he fights against Tsubaki in Chronophantasma.



* Why doesn't Nightmare Fiction play for Ragna vs Terumi matches? In Central Fiction, Hazama and Terumi no longer share a body, yet it still doesn't play. It only plays for Ragna vs Hazama, and at that point, Ragna basically doesn't give a shit about Hazama.

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* Why doesn't Nightmare Fiction play for Ragna vs Terumi matches? In Central Fiction, Hazama and Terumi no longer share a body, yet it still doesn't play. It only plays for Ragna vs Hazama, and at that point, Ragna basically doesn't give a shit about Hazama.Hazama.
* Why is the NOL so blasé about people on their payroll wielding Nox Nyctores weapons, given that they're extremely identifiable and very important in the setting? Noel isn't even important to the NOL when she's first seen with hers. What makes Jin and Noel sufficiently important that they can carry these ancient superweapons around instead of carrying normal arms like Tsubaki's?
* I get that Hazama is aware of time loops repeating themselves, but is Relius? His CS Arcade mode makes it clear he knows about them, but can he feel them? StableTimeLoop ensures that they become friends each time, I can get that, but does Hazama have to explain the nature of the time loops to him every time? Come to think of it, how stable is the time loop? Does Hazama have to put effort into finding Relius each time, because that implies there would be some loops when they miss each other.
18th Jun '17 11:53:46 AM nombretomado
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** Ragna ''isn't'' the cause of the time loop, nor is he the reason why the Black Beast exists in the past. The Black Beast was created once by Hazama in the past as his first attempt to create Kusanagi. The Black Beast can be created a ''second'' time in the VideoGame/BlazBlue story when the two halves of the fake Azure Grimoire (held by Ragna and v-13) fuse and activate. The source of the time distortion is v-13: only when she is destroyed does the time loop finally shatter.

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** Ragna ''isn't'' the cause of the time loop, nor is he the reason why the Black Beast exists in the past. The Black Beast was created once by Hazama in the past as his first attempt to create Kusanagi. The Black Beast can be created a ''second'' time in the VideoGame/BlazBlue ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' story when the two halves of the fake Azure Grimoire (held by Ragna and v-13) fuse and activate. The source of the time distortion is v-13: only when she is destroyed does the time loop finally shatter.



** Takamagahara is, insofar as I understand it, a sentient computer system that's meant to moderate the world or history or some such. By the start of CS, it would seem they had decided that [[AIIsACrapshoot humanity screwed everything up and should be destroyed along with everything else.]] Or to just stop the freaky time loops that were apparently in the care of Master Unit Amaterasu. Not entirely clear. Anyway, they let Terumi out to do his thing. That's my understanding of it. A lot of the bits with Takamagahara involved the nature of reality and causality in the VideoGame/BlazBlue universe, so it got fairly confusing on its own.
** The only things we know are that they are a system made by mankind, they monitor the timelines, they're trying to make the world "correct" and are attempting to reach the Azure for that purpose. They released Terumi to carry out the "Destruction protocol" to get the Master Unit out of the way. They pretty much explicitly say they don't want to kill everything like Terumi does when Rachel suggests they want to reduce the world to nothingness. More information about them will be revealed in the VideoGame/BlazBlue: Phase 0 light novel.

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** Takamagahara is, insofar as I understand it, a sentient computer system that's meant to moderate the world or history or some such. By the start of CS, it would seem they had decided that [[AIIsACrapshoot humanity screwed everything up and should be destroyed along with everything else.]] Or to just stop the freaky time loops that were apparently in the care of Master Unit Amaterasu. Not entirely clear. Anyway, they let Terumi out to do his thing. That's my understanding of it. A lot of the bits with Takamagahara involved the nature of reality and causality in the VideoGame/BlazBlue ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' universe, so it got fairly confusing on its own.
** The only things we know are that they are a system made by mankind, they monitor the timelines, they're trying to make the world "correct" and are attempting to reach the Azure for that purpose. They released Terumi to carry out the "Destruction protocol" to get the Master Unit out of the way. They pretty much explicitly say they don't want to kill everything like Terumi does when Rachel suggests they want to reduce the world to nothingness. More information about them will be revealed in the VideoGame/BlazBlue: ''[[LightNovel/BlazBluePhaseShift BlazBlue: Phase 0 0]]'' light novel.



** Need I remind you that the NOL is not inherently evil? Yes, they're controversial, and yes, their leaders are questionable at best, but they're essentially a government slash military slash police force slash university. To call them inherently evil is WAY overgeneralizing. Going with the NOL does not make her evil -- she's doing it to try and save somebody she loves, and while this will probably put her on the evil side of some fights in VideoGame/BlazBlue 3, it doesn't change her whole character alignment.

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** Need I remind you that the NOL is not inherently evil? Yes, they're controversial, and yes, their leaders are questionable at best, but they're essentially a government slash military slash police force slash university. To call them inherently evil is WAY overgeneralizing. Going with the NOL does not make her evil -- she's doing it to try and save somebody she loves, and while this will probably put her on the evil side of some fights in VideoGame/BlazBlue 3, ''VideoGame/BlazBlueChronoPhantasma'', it doesn't change her whole character alignment.



** The thing is, VideoGame/BlazBlue fandom has a tendency to exaggerate lots of things, NOL's 'Empire'-ness is one of them (last time, Jin's {{Jerkass}}ery was dialled UpToEleven despite some soft spots of his in the past). And it has overarched in Wiki/TVTropes, it was painful to read. I may even make some Analysis that bust out these myths. Playability does not really count. Kokonoe and Jubei enjoy MASSIVE popularity even when they're not playable. I think people try to defend Kokonoe more than, say, Litchi, because at least she's a good guy fighting the villain rather than someone who supports the villain despite not really agreeing to his principals. This 'Empire-ness' of NOL has caused the definition of HeelFaceTurn and FaceHeelTurn to be twisted, especially the latter. Did Litchi REALLY do a FaceHeelTurn solely for joining NOL, even if her principal of saving people hasn't changed? Did Tsubaki sticking with NOL counts as a FaceHeelTurn, despite, you know, being raised from age zero to serve NOL, and some MindRape? They really haven't crossed the MoralEventHorizon or admited that EvilFeelsGood, so why are they {{Heel}}s for being with NOL? This gets so silly that it's as if the motto of VideoGame/BlazBlue alignment is: "Are you with NOL/Hazama/Relius? If yes, then you're a {{Heel}}. Boo!"

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** The thing is, VideoGame/BlazBlue ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' fandom has a tendency to exaggerate lots of things, NOL's 'Empire'-ness is one of them (last time, Jin's {{Jerkass}}ery was dialled UpToEleven despite some soft spots of his in the past). And it has overarched in Wiki/TVTropes, it was painful to read. I may even make some Analysis that bust out these myths. Playability does not really count. Kokonoe and Jubei enjoy MASSIVE popularity even when they're not playable. I think people try to defend Kokonoe more than, say, Litchi, because at least she's a good guy fighting the villain rather than someone who supports the villain despite not really agreeing to his principals. This 'Empire-ness' of NOL has caused the definition of HeelFaceTurn and FaceHeelTurn to be twisted, especially the latter. Did Litchi REALLY do a FaceHeelTurn solely for joining NOL, even if her principal of saving people hasn't changed? Did Tsubaki sticking with NOL counts as a FaceHeelTurn, despite, you know, being raised from age zero to serve NOL, and some MindRape? They really haven't crossed the MoralEventHorizon or admited that EvilFeelsGood, so why are they {{Heel}}s for being with NOL? This gets so silly that it's as if the motto of VideoGame/BlazBlue ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' alignment is: "Are you with NOL/Hazama/Relius? If yes, then you're a {{Heel}}. Boo!"



** There's never been a case that showed that NOL directly triggered Ikaruga to 'rebel', it's more like Ikaruga was unsatisfied with how NOL runs things and started a rebellion on their own rather than being incited by NOL. PunchClockVillain? Well, let's look at how Ragna usually raided NOL branches before CT: Everyone is killed, no exceptions. Even if that person was a defenseless woman, or just a man getting his paycheck, no mercy. Also let's consider who voiced their protests on NOL thus far: mostly Sector Seven, who DID oppose them in a way. Everyone was pretty much fine, if a bit annoyed, with their elitist attitude. As far as hyperbolizing, I do not think that was because of the trolling, but more like overexcited fans who like hyperboles and it seems to be in the blood of Wiki/TVTropes, thereby making VideoGame/BlazBlue fans look... well...foppish?

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** There's never been a case that showed that NOL directly triggered Ikaruga to 'rebel', it's more like Ikaruga was unsatisfied with how NOL runs things and started a rebellion on their own rather than being incited by NOL. PunchClockVillain? Well, let's look at how Ragna usually raided NOL branches before CT: Everyone is killed, no exceptions. Even if that person was a defenseless woman, or just a man getting his paycheck, no mercy. Also let's consider who voiced their protests on NOL thus far: mostly Sector Seven, who DID oppose them in a way. Everyone was pretty much fine, if a bit annoyed, with their elitist attitude. As far as hyperbolizing, I do not think that was because of the trolling, but more like overexcited fans who like hyperboles and it seems to be in the blood of Wiki/TVTropes, thereby making VideoGame/BlazBlue ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' fans look... well...foppish?



** I'm making assumptions here, but I think Azrael is the result of BlazBlue The Fighting Game needing an ever increasing cast while BlazBlue The Story had all the characters it needed by the end of Continuum Shift. Azrael doesn't really have a purpose being disrupting the plot and slowing down the story, but Bullet, Amane, Mai, and Naoto don't really do much for the narrative, either.

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** I'm making assumptions here, but I think Azrael is the result of BlazBlue ''[=BlazBlue=]'' The Fighting Game needing an ever increasing cast while BlazBlue ''[=BlazBlue=]'' The Story had all the characters it needed by the end of Continuum Shift. Azrael doesn't really have a purpose being disrupting the plot and slowing down the story, but Bullet, Amane, Mai, and Naoto don't really do much for the narrative, either.
3rd Jun '17 6:59:12 PM Ogiga99
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*** In order to make her a proper vessel for Izanami, Hazama and Relius brutally tortured Saya to destroy her mind. Somehow this caused her soul to split in two and while one of the pieces remained with Saya, the other ended up with Noel. I don't remember if it's elaborated on exactly how or why it went to Noel but that's what happened.
2nd Jun '17 3:12:15 PM MysteriousNarrarator
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*** However, there's one more problem. First of all, why does Noel have part of Saya's soul? How come it isn't all in her original body?
24th May '17 1:41:08 PM Ogiga99
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*** Yes, that's pretty much it.
23rd May '17 4:28:10 PM MysteriousNarrarator
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*** So what you're saying is that Noel has both part of the Origin's soul and part of Saya's soul inside her, whereas the other part of Saya's soul is in her original body, which is possessed by Izanami, the Drive of the origin, whereas the other Prime Fields were created with parts of the Origin's soul?
22nd May '17 9:55:10 PM Ogiga99
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*** I'm not sure what you're still confused about. I've explained everything there is. The Origin is the original Prime Field inside the Master Unit. Izanami was The Origin's Drive and contained half of Saya's soul. All Prime Field Devices contain a piece of the Origin's soul. Noel in particular is The Origin's "other self," not just the Prime Field with the biggest piece of her soul. Noel also had the other half of Saya's soul. Saya is the daughter of No. 5 but not a Prime Field herself so she didn't have a piece of The Origin's soul. During ''Central Fiction'' Noel absorbs Izanami into herself thus making Noel have Saya's complete soul inside of her. At this point Noel's soul is a giant mess of Noel, Mu, Saya, Izanami and The Origin but per Kokomo's advice she just views herself as "Noel Vermillion." That's pretty much all of it. I don't know what else to tell you if you're still confused.

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*** I'm not sure what you're still confused about. I've explained everything there is. The Origin is the original Prime Field inside the Master Unit. Izanami was The Origin's Drive and contained half of Saya's soul. All Prime Field Devices contain a piece of the Origin's soul. Noel in particular is The Origin's "other self," not just the Prime Field with the biggest piece of her soul. Noel also had the other half of Saya's soul. Saya is the daughter of No. 5 but not a Prime Field herself so she didn't have a piece of The Origin's soul. During ''Central Fiction'' Noel absorbs Izanami into herself thus making Noel have Saya's complete soul inside of her. At this point Noel's soul is a giant mess of Noel, Mu, Saya, Izanami and The Origin but per Kokomo's Kokonoe's advice she just views herself as "Noel Vermillion." That's pretty much all of it. I don't know what else to tell you if you're still confused.
22nd May '17 4:15:38 PM Ogiga99
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*** I'm not sure what you're still confused about. I've explained everything there is. The Origin is the original Prime Field inside the Master Unit. Izanami was The Origin's Drive and contained half of Saya's soul. All Prime Field Devices contain a piece of the Origin's soul. Noel in particular is The Origin's "other self," not just the Prime Field with the biggest piece of her soul. Noel also had the other half of Saya's soul. Saya is the daughter of No. 5 but not a Prime Field herself so she didn't have a piece of The Origin's soul. During ''Central Fiction'' Noel absorbs Izanami into herself thus making Noel have Saya's complete soul inside of her. At this point Noel's soul is a giant mess of Noel, Mu, Saya, Izanami and The Origin but per Kokomo's advice she just views herself as "Noel Vermillion." That's pretty much all of it. I don't know what else to tell you if you're still confused.
21st May '17 5:29:42 PM MysteriousNarrarator
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**** Alright, so Prime Fields were created with parts of the Origin's soul, with Mu having the largest portion. However, I have also read that Mu has part of Saya's soul. What is the complete and total relationship between Saya, Noel, Izanami, the Prime Fields, and the Origin?
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