History Headscratchers / BeyondGoodAndEvil

23rd Jul '16 2:00:39 PM Discar
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*** And yet, in an isolated incident of creator oversight, Pey'J says exactly one line to Hahn while they were on Hahn's taxi cab. Unless Pey'J had made Hahn swear to say nothing...
*** The other IRIS Network members mention that they maintain as little personal contact with other members of the Network as possible, so that in the event that they're captured, the information that can be tortured out of them is kept to a minimum; and that they've never personally met their boss "Wild Boar", who organizes several chapters of IRIS here on Hillys; probably, Hahn realized that going to the other members and saying, "Hey guys, I totally just figured out who the boss is," would do more harm than good.
*** One line is not something you can make a firm case out of, but it is stressed by Hahn that members of the IRIS Network take precautions to make sure no one person holds all the cards. It's possible that, while he was on the Moon Base, Pey'j simply didn't have time or reason to mask his voice.

to:

*** ** And yet, in an isolated incident of creator oversight, Pey'J says exactly one line to Hahn while they were on Hahn's taxi cab. Unless Pey'J had made Hahn swear to say nothing...
*** ** The other IRIS Network members mention that they maintain as little personal contact with other members of the Network as possible, so that in the event that they're captured, the information that can be tortured out of them is kept to a minimum; and that they've never personally met their boss "Wild Boar", who organizes several chapters of IRIS here on Hillys; probably, Hahn realized that going to the other members and saying, "Hey guys, I totally just figured out who the boss is," would do more harm than good.
*** ** One line is not something you can make a firm case out of, but it is stressed by Hahn that members of the IRIS Network take precautions to make sure no one person holds all the cards. It's possible that, while he was on the Moon Base, Pey'j simply didn't have time or reason to mask his voice.



*** Which is why the Army, Police, nor Alpha Sections wouldn't bother investigating.
*** It'll also pay your electric bill. People who don't survive on K-bups and Starkos probably consider that fairly good money.
*** Note that they just say that her account is ''short'' by that much, not that that's her total electric bill. It's probably just that she underpaid them by 300 units, and the Alpha Section-controlled regime, being both mean and ''incredibly'' anal, wouldn't cough up the power until she paid up the rest--even if it was only about 3 bucks.

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*** ** Which is why the Army, Police, nor Alpha Sections wouldn't bother investigating.
*** ** It'll also pay your electric bill. People who don't survive on K-bups and Starkos probably consider that fairly good money.
*** ** Note that they just say that her account is ''short'' by that much, not that that's her total electric bill. It's probably just that she underpaid them by 300 units, and the Alpha Section-controlled regime, being both mean and ''incredibly'' anal, wouldn't cough up the power until she paid up the rest--even if it was only about 3 bucks.



*** Well, [[http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/28/beyond-good-and-evil-2-revealed-at-ubidays-2008/ actually...]]

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*** ** Well, [[http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/28/beyond-good-and-evil-2-revealed-at-ubidays-2008/ actually...]]



*** When that [=DomZ=] creature hypnotizes Jade at the beginning of the game, you can hear it saying, "Shauni (something) [=DomZ=]". Afterward, Secundo warns her that he thinks she got some "subconscious debris" or something to that effect.
*** A trace in her "psychokarma" was the line, if memory serves me.

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*** ** When that [=DomZ=] creature hypnotizes Jade at the beginning of the game, you can hear it saying, "Shauni (something) [=DomZ=]". Afterward, Secundo warns her that he thinks she got some "subconscious debris" or something to that effect.
*** ** A trace in her "psychokarma" was the line, if memory serves me.



*** Which would make the Alpha Sections THE most incompetent [[Literature/NineteenEightyFour Big Brother]]-type regime EVER. Seriously, you install a supposedly neigh-omniscient military dictatorship, but you can't even learn people's banking info? Sheesh.
*** Might be some kind of quantum money storage unit. You know, you register money you recive in the card, wich has a quantum security making falsificating it impossible. The entire account identification might be some high-tech quantum identification, to ensure it is real money, without actually identifying the user. Like a quantum bag of holding for money.

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*** ** Which would make the Alpha Sections THE most incompetent [[Literature/NineteenEightyFour Big Brother]]-type regime EVER. Seriously, you install a supposedly neigh-omniscient military dictatorship, but you can't even learn people's banking info? Sheesh.
*** ** Might be some kind of quantum money storage unit. You know, you register money you recive in the card, wich has a quantum security making falsificating it impossible. The entire account identification might be some high-tech quantum identification, to ensure it is real money, without actually identifying the user. Like a quantum bag of holding for money.



*** Was just coming along to say this. Sneaking in the Slaughterhouse, being all stealthy, ooh better get some snacks... 'ACCOUNT IDENTIFICATION OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

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*** ** Was just coming along to say this. Sneaking in the Slaughterhouse, being all stealthy, ooh better get some snacks... 'ACCOUNT IDENTIFICATION OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'



*** I've heard an [[http://brainygamer.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3243993&trail= explanation]]: the sentence is more a motto than a password, and the true security is simple: it's Jade who has been invited to join the IRIS Network, and not some Joe Random, even if he happened to say it to the right person.
*** Considering that the guy she gives the password to is the very guy who scoped her out for recruitment...
*** As for who trusts the government - yes, this is what the slogan serves for in the game. Initially, most of the people have no idea what you mean (or even dismiss you as a supporter of the "terrorists"); as the IRIS reports are released, the public opinion begins to change ...

to:

*** ** I've heard an [[http://brainygamer.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3243993&trail= explanation]]: the sentence is more a motto than a password, and the true security is simple: it's Jade who has been invited to join the IRIS Network, and not some Joe Random, even if he happened to say it to the right person.
*** ** Considering that the guy she gives the password to is the very guy who scoped her out for recruitment...
*** ** As for who trusts the government - yes, this is what the slogan serves for in the game. Initially, most of the people have no idea what you mean (or even dismiss you as a supporter of the "terrorists"); as the IRIS reports are released, the public opinion begins to change ...



*** Well, I was kidding about digitizing mons, though come to think of it that sounds like a fun side-game. I didn't think of it actually storing mass because it seems silly to me? But if it does, and it all fits inside the little device, it must be made superdense, which means for sure that not even the original molecules of the k-bup or whatever have survived. Presumably the device can synthesize a wide variety of stuff from probably basic elements. This should have an impact on how it works for you, the player -- and the amount of energy needed to accomplish all this leads to the in-world economic questions raised below.
*** So it's less silly to think that the device is making the mass out of thin air ''when the device actually absorbs the mass of the original''? You don't know how the device works: the mechanism is some unknown superscience. The only thing we do know is that the mechanism can't synthesise things out of thin air, which is good enough. There could be lots of good reasons for this (perhaps the digitization process is unique for each item, and the universe cannot produce extras while the digitized item is extant; perhaps without the original's mass the energy gradient is too high;) but we don't really need to know the TechnoBabble. Also, ''superdense''? What do you think a k-bup is made of? Neutronium?
*** Kebab.

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*** ** Well, I was kidding about digitizing mons, though come to think of it that sounds like a fun side-game. I didn't think of it actually storing mass because it seems silly to me? But if it does, and it all fits inside the little device, it must be made superdense, which means for sure that not even the original molecules of the k-bup or whatever have survived. Presumably the device can synthesize a wide variety of stuff from probably basic elements. This should have an impact on how it works for you, the player -- and the amount of energy needed to accomplish all this leads to the in-world economic questions raised below.
*** ** So it's less silly to think that the device is making the mass out of thin air ''when the device actually absorbs the mass of the original''? You don't know how the device works: the mechanism is some unknown superscience. The only thing we do know is that the mechanism can't synthesise things out of thin air, which is good enough. There could be lots of good reasons for this (perhaps the digitization process is unique for each item, and the universe cannot produce extras while the digitized item is extant; perhaps without the original's mass the energy gradient is too high;) but we don't really need to know the TechnoBabble. Also, ''superdense''? What do you think a k-bup is made of? Neutronium?
*** ** Kebab.



*** ''Should be'' post-scarcity; obviously the power bills are what I'm complaining about. The amount of energy freely being tossed around just to manage Jade's inventory makes it hard to buy that she has trouble keeping the lights on at home.
*** We are ''technically'' at post-scarcity right now; there's enough food being produced globally to keep everybody well-fed, for instance. Anyway, the power bills also pay for the DeflectorShields that defend them from alien invaders, they don't just keep the lights on.
*** Also, considering where the "pearls" seem to come from, it seems entirely likely that they have some kind of mystical power. The [=DomZ=] are telekinetic LifeEnergy-manipulating [[TheVirus Virus-like]] aliens; their "bones" not only glow and float, but they're huge. Maybe they function as a power source or something similar.
*** This is a pretty good handwave even if it's nowhere in the text, which comes just short of forcing you into the conclusion that they're only valued for their rarity. Just short, though.
*** Scarcity is not a handwave.

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*** ** ''Should be'' post-scarcity; obviously the power bills are what I'm complaining about. The amount of energy freely being tossed around just to manage Jade's inventory makes it hard to buy that she has trouble keeping the lights on at home.
*** ** We are ''technically'' at post-scarcity right now; there's enough food being produced globally to keep everybody well-fed, for instance. Anyway, the power bills also pay for the DeflectorShields that defend them from alien invaders, they don't just keep the lights on.
*** ** Also, considering where the "pearls" seem to come from, it seems entirely likely that they have some kind of mystical power. The [=DomZ=] are telekinetic LifeEnergy-manipulating [[TheVirus Virus-like]] aliens; their "bones" not only glow and float, but they're huge. Maybe they function as a power source or something similar.
*** ** This is a pretty good handwave even if it's nowhere in the text, which comes just short of forcing you into the conclusion that they're only valued for their rarity. Just short, though.
*** ** Scarcity is not a handwave.



*** Because they happen to be illegal to use as a currency?

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*** ** Because they happen to be illegal to use as a currency?



*** That's not a given. The Word dismisses them as elaborate hoaxes, not as manipulated images, which could just as well mean that they want people to think the shots were of staged actors and designed sets. There's also the possibility that the Hillyans have technology designed to counter any tampering done onto photos. Lastly, it's part of the plot that more and more photographic evidence convinces more and more Hillyans that they're true.

to:

*** ** That's not a given. The Word dismisses them as elaborate hoaxes, not as manipulated images, which could just as well mean that they want people to think the shots were of staged actors and designed sets. There's also the possibility that the Hillyans have technology designed to counter any tampering done onto photos. Lastly, it's part of the plot that more and more photographic evidence convinces more and more Hillyans that they're true.



*** Metadata might serve as proof on the M-Discs, but I don't see how that'd do much good when they hijack the giant TV screens in the finale.

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*** ** Metadata might serve as proof on the M-Discs, but I don't see how that'd do much good when they hijack the giant TV screens in the finale.



*** I always thought it was like an [[OrganicTechnology organic machine]] of some kind, and the actual [=DomZ=] priest stayed inside controlling it. And after it's defeated Jade somehow took control of it with her recently discovered powers.

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*** ** I always thought it was like an [[OrganicTechnology organic machine]] of some kind, and the actual [=DomZ=] priest stayed inside controlling it. And after it's defeated Jade somehow took control of it with her recently discovered powers.



*** Cylinders, pistons and a crankshaft are for converting fuel via combustion (or steam/other gas directly) into reciprocating and then rotary motion. Typically this rotary motion is used directly as power, or goes to a generator which makes... yep, electrical power. If you already have sufficient power available (it is able to form ''sustained arcs'', so one can assume it's enough power), then these ''particular'' mechanical parts serve no useful function. Other parts like gearboxes would be handy but these items? Nope.

to:

*** ** Cylinders, pistons and a crankshaft are for converting fuel via combustion (or steam/other gas directly) into reciprocating and then rotary motion. Typically this rotary motion is used directly as power, or goes to a generator which makes... yep, electrical power. If you already have sufficient power available (it is able to form ''sustained arcs'', so one can assume it's enough power), then these ''particular'' mechanical parts serve no useful function. Other parts like gearboxes would be handy but these items? Nope.



*** On the other hand, the game is all about a campaign of disinformation by the [=DomZ=]. This can be another layer.

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*** ** On the other hand, the game is all about a campaign of disinformation by the [=DomZ=]. This can be another layer.
23rd Jul '16 12:33:26 PM nombretomado
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*** Which would make the Alpha Sections THE most incompetent BigBrother type regime EVER. Seriously, you install a supposedly neigh-omniscient military dictatorship, but you can't even learn people's banking info? Sheesh.

to:

*** Which would make the Alpha Sections THE most incompetent BigBrother type [[Literature/NineteenEightyFour Big Brother]]-type regime EVER. Seriously, you install a supposedly neigh-omniscient military dictatorship, but you can't even learn people's banking info? Sheesh.
10th Nov '15 12:54:44 PM MikeRosoft
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to:

** Plus, he seems to have been taken by surprise, possibly while he was recording his last message.



** IRISH spelled it Shauni in their reports and that became the official spelling everyone else used. Jade just said it on the spot and likely didn't have any preference in how it's spelled and the DomZ Priest isn't likely to even use a written language should it ever need to spell it. Really isn't any more peculiar then Pey'j's name always being spelled that way as opposed to being spelled Page.

to:

** IRISH IRIS spelled it Shauni in their reports and that became the official spelling everyone else used. Jade just said it on the spot and likely didn't have any preference in how it's spelled and the DomZ [=DomZ=] Priest isn't likely to even use a written language should it ever need to spell it. Really isn't any more peculiar then Pey'j's name always being spelled that way as opposed to being spelled Page.
7th Jan '15 4:26:09 PM cillianflood
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to:

** IRISH spelled it Shauni in their reports and that became the official spelling everyone else used. Jade just said it on the spot and likely didn't have any preference in how it's spelled and the DomZ Priest isn't likely to even use a written language should it ever need to spell it. Really isn't any more peculiar then Pey'j's name always being spelled that way as opposed to being spelled Page.
5th Apr '14 8:41:49 PM Nyperold
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to:

** The Police -- some of whom may be Looters, or may just have their cars stolen by the Looters -- automatically deduct their fine from your account when you shoot civilians enough. Hackers aside, that may just be something the cars can do, which is why they're useful in either scenario.




to:

** I wonder how many got interested via ChipCheezum's LetsPlay...
2nd Feb '14 10:30:33 AM SomeSortOfTroper
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* Why didn't anyone from IRIS recognize Pey'j's voice? Yes, yes, I know, PlotInducedStupidity, but given that his voice is distinctive enough to be instantly recognizable to the ''player'' when he comes in over the radio, coupled with his unique accent, one would think that ''someone'' there would notice that the short guy who just walked in with their new recruit sounded ''an awful lot'' like their boss. Also, his code name is "Wild Boar." Come on.

to:

* Why didn't anyone from IRIS recognize Pey'j's voice? Yes, yes, I know, PlotInducedStupidity, the plot, but given that his voice is distinctive enough to be instantly recognizable to the ''player'' when he comes in over the radio, coupled with his unique accent, one would think that ''someone'' there would notice that the short guy who just walked in with their new recruit sounded ''an awful lot'' like their boss. Also, his code name is "Wild Boar." Come on.
21st Oct '13 9:50:00 AM Viira
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**** [[IncrediblyLamePun Kebab.]]

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**** [[IncrediblyLamePun **** Kebab.]]
31st Aug '13 9:00:18 AM Discar
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[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Pey'j's Voice]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Looters and Money]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Shauni]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Suddenly a fanbase?]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Poorly-chosen code name]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Stealth Vending Machines]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Password]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Real name]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Hyperspace arsenal]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Pearls in a post-scarcity economy?]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Image editing]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Statue enemy]]



** ' This troper assumed it was some sort of "half-dead" being, barely alive and controlling itself. Note that when Domz High Priest is defeated the thing actualy reaches towards Jade and raises her into air, without doing anything hostile.

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** ' This troper O assumed it was some sort of "half-dead" being, barely alive and controlling itself. Note that when Domz High Priest is defeated the thing actualy reaches towards Jade and raises her into air, without doing anything hostile.



** I Noticed that when we get the "flashes", we see the statue, as apposed to the Domz priest who was actually talking. I had assumed that that meant that jade was related to it somehow. This, combined with the fact that Jade was somehow imbued with a power that used to belong to the DomZ, and that the statue still belonged to the DomZ, made me think that the statue was the previous embodiment of Shauni. Which would make it a massive soulless alien, or in other words a "GIANT ALIEN ZOMBIE!", which is an awesome way to think of it.

to:

** I Noticed noticed that when we get the "flashes", we see the statue, as apposed to the Domz priest who was actually talking. I had assumed that that meant that jade was related to it somehow. This, combined with the fact that Jade was somehow imbued with a power that used to belong to the DomZ, and that the statue still belonged to the DomZ, made me think that the statue was the previous embodiment of Shauni. Which would make it a massive soulless alien, or in other words a "GIANT ALIEN ZOMBIE!", which is an awesome way to think of it.
it.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Elevator]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Serum]]



* This troper actually interpreted the ending as ThePlan on the [=DomZ=]' part. All this about Jade/Shani having the power to bring people back to life is a lie: think about it, the only person who tells you about it is the freshly-resurrected Pey'J, and he has some [=DomZ=] growth on him in the ending. [=DomZ=] have exhibited some mind-control ability in the game, so it's not too far out to expect there to be some less obvious form of such an infestation. The other people you save are probably infested as well, and the whole Alpha Section plan was probably that stupid deliberately so someone could defeat them, lull Hillys into a false sense of peace and create and implant a good number of undercover [=DomZ=] agents. Is there some extra info I'm missing?

to:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:The ending]]

* This troper I actually interpreted the ending as ThePlan on the [=DomZ=]' part. All this about Jade/Shani having the power to bring people back to life is a lie: think about it, the only person who tells you about it is the freshly-resurrected Pey'J, and he has some [=DomZ=] growth on him in the ending. [=DomZ=] have exhibited some mind-control ability in the game, so it's not too far out to expect there to be some less obvious form of such an infestation. The other people you save are probably infested as well, and the whole Alpha Section plan was probably that stupid deliberately so someone could defeat them, lull Hillys into a false sense of peace and create and implant a good number of undercover [=DomZ=] agents. Is there some extra info I'm missing?



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Psycho karma]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Aliens]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Priest]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Double H loss]]




to:

** She's some sort of magical entity. He is not.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Yellow Backpacks]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Illegal pearls]]




to:

** They're illegal because an oppressive alien government made them illegal. Most people are happy to just ignore the Alpha Sections whenever possible.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Spelling]]




<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>

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\n<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>[[/folder]]
31st Aug '13 6:05:50 AM ZuTheSkunk
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** Its revealed that the Alpha Sections need the life force of the people that they capture to survive, and they need the green gas to survive. I had thought of the green stuff as a sort of orange juice concentrate, but with souls instead of oranges.

to:

** Its revealed that the Alpha Sections need the life force of the people that they capture to survive, and they need the green gas to survive. I had thought of the green stuff as a sort of orange juice concentrate, but with souls instead of oranges.
oranges.

* If pearls are illegal, then how come that a SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTE sends one to Jade each time she photographs a bunch of animals?

* How does that happen that EVERYONE gets the spelling of Jade's nickname (Shauni) perfectly right after she SAYS it, and says it ONCE? For all we know, they would be perfectly justified to interpret it as "Shani".

18th Jun '13 10:43:00 PM Divra
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Added DiffLines:

** I always figured Hal, Babukar and Issam were just being smart, and refusing to accept a presumably fiat currency backed by a government currently embroiled in a war of uncertain outcome.
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