History Headscratchers / AssassinsCreed

23rd May '16 11:30:32 PM EricW
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to:

** Really, the hardest problem for the Assassins is that they don't like to get involved in politics. I know that sounds silly, but the Assassin's means of work in "work in the dark to serve the light" means they generally don't like to be in power positions the same way the templars do. That means they're consistently fighting against power systems that the Templars tend to want to use for their own purpose, and no matter how much assassins might trust humans to do the right and true thing, their hands off, restraining others approach means that it allows the Templars to get into the mix much easier and then mess things up again. And no matter how many times they kill localized leadership, the templars always seem to have 1 lieutenant or another city or more people attracted to them for power or revenge to join up. And as Syndicate indicated, once the templars started to get their hands on economics as well as political power, stamping them out becomes even more difficult.
27th Mar '16 9:38:53 PM jormis29
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[[folder:Templar survival and assassin disappearance]]

* How on earth is the Templar organization still around? In the series, you have killed their leadership and smashed their plans to dust no less than ''four times.'' A better question would be: Where have the Assassins gone? In the Ezio timeline, you have the ability to build the Assassins up to controlling most of the cities of Europe. Yet, in 3rd official game, it is like the Assassins never existed except for [[spoiler: Achilles.]] Where did they go? How did the Templars regain power? If the Assassins had the Apple, and the Templar leadership is dead, who exactly is rebuilding the organization? It drives me mad....
** Simple because the Templars represent an Idea. The Templar's Ideal and goal is to create a Utopia with happiness and no suffering, which will attract many people, no matter how many Templars the Assassin kills their will always be people who want to create an ideal world. Similar to how the Assassins still exist, they represent freedom and independence, and someone will always wants that.
** All I know is that they had some major famous leaders on their side in the newer generations, like FDR, and that the Assassins were pretty scattered and crushed, as we learn in Assassins Creed Brotherhood. Considering that Abstergo had enough money to purchase Ubisoft to research Edward Kenway by ACIV, I'd say the newer generations had become more powerful.

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[[folder:Templar survival and assassin disappearance]]

* How on earth is the Templar organization still around? In the series, you have killed their leadership and smashed their plans to dust no less than ''four times.'' A better question would be: Where have the Assassins gone? In the Ezio timeline, you have the ability to build the Assassins up to controlling most of the cities of Europe. Yet, in 3rd official game, it is like the Assassins never existed except for [[spoiler: Achilles.]] Where did they go? How did the Templars regain power? If the Assassins had the Apple, and the Templar leadership is dead, who exactly is rebuilding the organization? It drives me mad....
** Simple because the Templars represent an Idea. The Templar's Ideal and goal is to create a Utopia with happiness and no suffering, which will attract many people, no matter how many Templars the Assassin kills their will always be people who want to create an ideal world. Similar to how the Assassins still exist, they represent freedom and independence, and someone will always wants that.
** All I know is that they had some major famous leaders on their side in the newer generations, like FDR, and that the Assassins were pretty scattered and crushed, as we learn in Assassins Creed Brotherhood. Considering that Abstergo had enough money to purchase Ubisoft to research Edward Kenway by ACIV, I'd say the newer generations had become more powerful.

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2nd Feb '16 12:22:17 PM Khazzadumm
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** This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case. Also, the Templars are thus correct in the end, by enthralling all of humanity, they can just wish a utopian society to become a reality...and it would.

to:

** This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case.case (not to mention effectively toppling a number of philosophies and strongly reinforcing others). Also, the Templars are thus correct in the end, by enthralling all of humanity, they can just wish a utopian society to become a reality...and it would.
simply would.
13th Dec '15 12:25:30 PM Discar
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** ↑This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case. Also, the Templars are thus correct in the end, by enthralling all of humanity, they can just wish a utopian society to become a reality...and it would.

to:

** ↑This This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case. Also, the Templars are thus correct in the end, by enthralling all of humanity, they can just wish a utopian society to become a reality...and it would.
13th Dec '15 8:09:33 AM Khazzadumm
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** ↑This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case.

to:

** ↑This right here. The implications of that are simply staggering. A man (or a group of men) have the abillity to basically [[spoiler: rewrite reality, something in the domain of God(s).]]. In order to grasp the significance of this let's consider the following: if it is to be believed the in-universe lore, if humans [[spoiler: are apparently wholy mundane, lacking any soul or something else that would make us "special"]], what's to prevent someone from creating an AI orders of magnitude more powerfull than any human(s) could ever be, with the machine's ability to focus singularily on one thought, and [[spoiler: overwriting reality]]? Long story short, the very possibility of such a thing puts a VERY strong argument in any theist's case.
case. Also, the Templars are thus correct in the end, by enthralling all of humanity, they can just wish a utopian society to become a reality...and it would.
5th Dec '15 3:18:13 AM JulianLapostat
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** The First Civ did travel into space. The glyphs mention that an Apple of Eden was found in the Moon, and one of the plans was to launch to avert the Toba Catastrophe was to launch a Satellite into space but it failed not because they couldn't launch but because the Apple didn't work the way it wanted. The other thing to note, is that a lot of humanity's achievements derive from First Civ influence and technology. So you can't say that the humans of the AC-verse have surpassed the First Civ when a lot of their tech is based on ReverseEngineering, or catching up to stuff that the First Civ already achieved anyway.




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** ''Unity'' states that it's a product of the Eagle Vision and the Sixth Sense of knowledge, that when Assassins focus on certain targets specifically and kill them in a manner they can absorb memories from their dying victims. At a higher level, they can go one step further and talk to the dying consciousness itself (after all, consciousness is described by the First Civ as bits of information on a quantum...yada yada mumbo jumbo). The explanation fits I guess but it's something that I wish the developers left ambiguous rather than spell it out openly.\\
My own interpretation however was that the memories seen in the Animus are reconstructed from the actual GeneticMemory. To reconstruct it the Animus codes the entire sessions in the metaphor of a video game. This is mentioned in the manual of the first AC. So the Animus is a simulation and reconstruction but while it shows what happened, it leaves a lot of room for "how" it happened. That is to say it shows Point A, Point B, Point C, but the points between A and B are up for interpretation. What that means is that Altair killed Talal, killed Garnier, Sibrand but how he did it probably did not happen in the way we play it. It was probably less dramatic, less gamey and more that Altair snuck in their room and stabbed them in private long enough to get information from them. The memory corridors are instances or clusters where we kind of see the simulation collapse and what we get is an impression, not something we should take literally.
5th Dec '15 2:59:33 AM HeWhoMustNotBeUsernamed
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder: Memory Corridors]]

*Is there an explanation for the interrogate-the-target-after-assassinating-him cutscenes? The stylistics make it look like an Animus thing, but the historical assassin clearly got information from the target at that point in history (i.e., Altaïr learns of the Templars in one of these Corridor scenes. If it was really an Animus thing, only Desmond should have heard any of that, right?). And how would the Animus even do anything like that, when it can only access ancestral memories? Or are memory corridors some kind of Assassin skill?

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25th Nov '15 2:27:03 PM ThePhantom
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** I'm not entirely sure thee is one, at least for the flags. The fragments, if memory serves, was mentioned in a semi-offhand comment about being literal "fragments" of data that needed to be collected. Basically, Desmond was going off-script for a bit to run around grabbing shinies. Even that justfication was lost basically immediately afterward, with it becoming almost strictly Doylist in nature. "Collect the things because they're things that you collect."

to:

** I'm not entirely sure thee is there ''is'' one, at least for the flags. The fragments, if memory serves, was were mentioned in a semi-offhand comment about being literal "fragments" of data that needed to be collected.collected so they could get more information. Basically, Desmond was going off-script for a bit to run around grabbing shinies. Even that justfication was lost basically immediately afterward, with it becoming almost strictly Doylist in nature. "Collect the things because they're things that you collect."
25th Nov '15 2:25:44 PM ThePhantom
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to:

** I'm not entirely sure thee is one, at least for the flags. The fragments, if memory serves, was mentioned in a semi-offhand comment about being literal "fragments" of data that needed to be collected. Basically, Desmond was going off-script for a bit to run around grabbing shinies. Even that justfication was lost basically immediately afterward, with it becoming almost strictly Doylist in nature. "Collect the things because they're things that you collect."
21st Nov '15 11:50:19 AM Khazzadumm
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Throughout the first few games we are presented with TWCB as a powerfull divine race beyond our comprehension and intellect. But as of 2015, human society is ever increaseingly resembling the TWCB. Not only that, but we may even have surpassed them (and will continue to), we went to the Moon several times whilst they stayed on Earth, why? Couldn't they have saved themselves via off-world/off-system colonies? It seems that we are only ~100-200 years away from being roughly where they were on societal and technological level. But unlike them, we seem to "dream bigger". What i'm basically getting at is the seeming disparity between what TWCB did, and what they could have done.

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Throughout *Throughout the first few games we are presented with TWCB as a powerfull divine race beyond our comprehension and intellect. But as of 2015, human society is ever increaseingly resembling the TWCB. Not only that, but we may even have surpassed them (and will continue to), we went to the Moon several times whilst they stayed on Earth, why? Couldn't they have saved themselves via off-world/off-system colonies? It seems that we are only ~100-200 years away from being roughly where they were on societal and technological level. But unlike them, we seem to "dream bigger". What i'm basically getting at is the seeming disparity between what TWCB did, and what they could have done.
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