History GuideDangIt / WesternRPG

1st May '17 6:48:45 PM DesertDragon
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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins''. Try getting Sten's approval up without being told how to do so. Gifts especially. Sure, you can probably guess some of the gifts by the character (Andastre Relic...oh, Leliana from the Chantry would like this! A scroll...maybe I should give this to Wynne. Booze? DEFINITELY give that to Oghren...) but there are some other ones that aren't ''as'' obvious, other than Trial and Error. (Hmm...Oghren doesn't seem to like Wine at all...who would...oh, Wynne? Gold and Silver bars...maybe Ogh...oh no he doesn't like that...neither does Alistair. hmm who do-Zevran?!)
** Not so difficult actually. Most of the unintuitive gifts become at least reasonable once you have enough rep with the person and have explored all their dialog. "Who the heck is going to want a cat? Maybe Liliana..." *Reps up with Alistair and does some dialog* "Oh! Alistair had a pet cat that he lost, there we go.." Similarly, Sten becomes much easier to gain approval with once you learn a little about the kind of person he is.
** The climax of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOriginsAwakening'' involves a choice between [[spoiler: saving Vigil's Keep and saving Amaranthine, in which if you do not save Vigil's Keep, it falls and all your companions left there are killed.]] That is, unless you completed a series of seemingly not-too-important side quests and also agreed to pay a ridiculous amount of money very early in the game. It would not be so much of a GuideDangIt if the player were not led by the original game to consider the amount of money demanded ridiculous; however, since it's about 20 times easier to earn money in ''Awakening'' than in ''Origins'', not only is it unlikely a player will have enough money to pay for everything at that stage, it is equally unlikely they'll be willing to part with that much gold.

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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins''. ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'':
**
Try getting Sten's approval up without being told how to do so. Gifts especially. He's naturally argumentative, but if you tell him what you think he wants to hear, you'll actually ''lose'' approval. Learning this much is easy, but beyond that, good luck figuring out which responses cause him to respect you for sticking to your guns and which ones just piss him off.
** The gift system.
Sure, you can probably guess some of the gifts by the character (Andastre (Andraste Relic...oh, Leliana from the Chantry would like this! A scroll...maybe I should give this to Wynne. Booze? DEFINITELY give that to Oghren...) but there are some other ones that aren't ''as'' obvious, other than Trial and Error. (Hmm...Oghren doesn't seem to like Wine at all...who would...oh, Wynne? Gold and Silver bars...maybe Ogh...oh no he doesn't like that...neither does Alistair. hmm who do-Zevran?!)
** Not so difficult actually. Most of the unintuitive gifts become at least reasonable once you have enough rep with the person and have explored all their dialog. "Who the heck is going to want a cat? Maybe Liliana..." *Reps up with Alistair and does some dialog* "Oh! Alistair had a pet cat that he lost, there we go.." Similarly, Sten becomes much easier to gain approval with once you learn a little about the kind of person he is.
** The climax of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOriginsAwakening'' involves a choice between [[spoiler: saving Vigil's Keep and saving Amaranthine, in which if you do not save Vigil's Keep, it falls and all your companions left there are killed.]] That is, unless you completed a series of seemingly not-too-important side quests and also agreed to pay a ridiculous amount of money very early in the game. It would not be so much of a GuideDangIt if the player were not led by the original game to consider the amount of money demanded ridiculous; however, since it's about 20 times easier to earn money in ''Awakening'' than in ''Origins'', not only is it unlikely a player will have enough money to pay for everything at that stage, it is equally unlikely they'll be willing to part with that much gold.
would-Zevran?!)


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** Making the most out of the [[MagicKnight Arcane Warrior]] specialization. It turns out that several mage spells, if you've equipped a weapon other than a staff, require the weapon be sheathed before casting, a dangerous waste of time in the midst of battle. And there is absolutely no pattern to which spells will sheathe your weapons and which won't (except specialization spells, which never do).
* The climax of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOriginsAwakening'' involves a choice between [[spoiler: saving Vigil's Keep and saving Amaranthine, in which if you do not save Vigil's Keep, it falls and all your companions left there are killed.]] That is, unless you completed a series of seemingly not-too-important side quests and also agreed to pay a ridiculous amount of money very early in the game. It would not be so much of a GuideDangIt if the player were not led by the original game to consider the amount of money demanded ridiculous; however, since it's about 20 times easier to earn money in ''Awakening'' than in ''Origins'', not only is it unlikely a player will have enough money to pay for everything at that stage, it is equally unlikely they'll be willing to part with that much gold.
27th Apr '17 1:08:58 PM Argon2
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** Speaking of clue scrolls, there is a quest in the desert series called Do No Evil, where you attempt to introduce [[ItMakesSenseInContext Planet of the Apes type monkeys into the desert ecosystem]]. One part of this quest is to use the equivalent of a metal detector to dig up some metal boxes with Magic Carpets for the colony. What does any of this have to do with clue scrolls, you might ask? Well, after the quest, you can use said metal detector to locate a rare Elite Clue Scroll with great rewards. You are never told this, ever. Furthermore, the Elite Clue Scroll is buried in one of four obscure locations that you would not likely go to otherwise while wearing the device. How anyone found out about this is a mystery to this Troper.

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** Speaking of clue scrolls, there is a quest in the desert series called Do No Evil, where you attempt to introduce [[ItMakesSenseInContext Planet of the Apes type monkeys into the desert ecosystem]]. One part of this quest is to use the equivalent of a metal detector to dig up some metal boxes with Magic Carpets for the colony. What does any of this have to do with clue scrolls, you might ask? Well, after the quest, you can use said metal detector to locate a rare Elite Clue Scroll with great rewards. You are never told this, ever. Furthermore, the Elite Clue Scroll is buried in one of four obscure locations that you would not likely go to otherwise while wearing the device. How anyone found out about this is a mystery to this Troper.
7th Apr '17 7:24:34 PM Mineboot45
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* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'':
** The fight with Undyne during the [[SheatheYourSword Pacifist run]]. Every boss battle (in fact, every battle ''period'') up to this point could be completed through selecting the "Spare" option after enough [[PuzzleBoss Act menu trickery]]. Undyne, however, continually refuses to accept your mercy and won't react to any attempts to spare her. ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption? Nope, that'll ruin the Pacifist run. It's essentially a HopelessBossFight - [[RunOrDie you have to run away after she stops talking, once your soul heart turns red.]]
** Likewise, Mettaton EX can only be spared by getting the ratings for the show over 10000. There is no indication of this beyond the subtle rising stats under the ratings, it just kind of... happens.
** Another Pacifist Run example, the fight against [[spoiler: Asgore]] can be really confusing, specifically ''because'' ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption. Up until that point every boss could be spared without any physical violence. After a while, the game will say "All you can do is FIGHT" but ignoring any calls to violence and being persistently pacifistic is completely ''necessary'' until that point, so it's easy to assume it's just a trap. It also explicitly goes against any [[PlayerPunch hard lessons]] the player might have learned from the very first boss battle, which is meant to harshly dissuade you from using the TechnicalPacifist "hit until they give up" strategy.
6th Apr '17 8:36:30 PM GuiRitter
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** The "Threads of the Webspinner" side-quest requires you to find multiple (read: 26) individual pieces of Sanguine equipment. The quest give will only tell you about a few of the pieces, while the rest are on seemingly random [=NPCs=] scattered throughout Vvardenfell. (Some are even possessed by non-hostile [=NPCs=] in towns, virtually guaranteeing that you'll get a bounty for killing the holder.) Even worse, if you don't find out about the quest before you start uncovering some of the items, you may have accidentally left them behind or sold them. (While each has a rare enchantment, they aren't very powerful and are usually outclassed by other equipment you have at that point.)

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** The "Threads of the Webspinner" side-quest requires you to find multiple (read: 26) individual pieces of Sanguine equipment. The quest give giver will only tell you about a few of the pieces, while the rest are on seemingly random [=NPCs=] scattered throughout Vvardenfell. (Some are even possessed by non-hostile [=NPCs=] in towns, virtually guaranteeing that you'll get a bounty for killing the holder.) Even worse, if you don't find out about the quest before you start uncovering some of the items, you may have accidentally left them behind or sold them. (While each has a rare enchantment, they aren't very powerful and are usually outclassed by other equipment you have at that point.)
14th Mar '17 11:43:02 PM crazyrabbits
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** Master trainers. Once you reach 75 in a given skill, the option opens up to receive "Master" training from specific [=NPCs=] throughout the world. The problem is that the game won't just tell you this immediately -- you have to find ''another'' NPC who will give you a recommendation, which starts the requisite quest and search for the requisite trainer. Nowhere in the game is this information revealed, short of trial-and-error to see which merchants and citizens refer you to which skill. While you'll likely run across some of these by accident, knowing which ones boost which skills to the highest levels is nigh-impossible without a guide.
** It doesn't help that installing the ''Knights of the Nine'' DLC and playing through its quest causes one of the people who would refer you to a Master trainer (Marz at the Temple of Bruma) to be [[LostForever killed offscreen]], locking you out of Restoration Master Training if you didn't already meet her beforehand and get her recommendation. Nothing in the game warns you that this is going to happen, and you could very easily lock yourself out of the stat boosting if you didn't have a resource that told you otherwise.

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** Master trainers. Once you reach 75 in a given skill, the option opens up to receive "Master" training from specific [=NPCs=] throughout the world. The problem is that the game won't just tell you this immediately -- you have to find ''another'' NPC who will give you a recommendation, which starts the requisite quest and search for the requisite trainer. Nowhere in the game is this information revealed, short of trial-and-error to see which merchants and citizens refer you to which skill. While you'll likely run across some of these by accident, knowing which ones boost which skills to the highest levels is nigh-impossible without a guide.
** It doesn't help that installing the ''Knights of the Nine'' DLC and playing through its quest causes one of the people who would refer you to a Master trainer (Marz at the Temple of Bruma) to be [[LostForever killed offscreen]], locking you out of Restoration Master Training if you didn't already meet her beforehand and get her recommendation. Nothing in the game warns you that this is going to happen, and you could very easily lock yourself out of the stat boosting if you didn't have a resource guide that told you otherwise.
14th Mar '17 11:42:01 PM crazyrabbits
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** Master trainers. Once you reach 75 in a given skill, the option opens up to receive "Master" training from specific [=NPCs=] throughout the world. The problem is that the game won't just tell you this immediately -- you have to find ''another'' NPC who will give you a recommendation, which starts the requisite quest and search for the requisite trainer. Nowhere in the game is this information revealed, short of trial-and-error to see which merchants and citizens refer you to which skill. While you'll likely run across some of these by accident, knowing which ones boost which skills to the highest levels is nigh-impossible without a guide.
** It doesn't help that installing the ''Knights of the Nine'' DLC and playing through its quest causes one of the people who would refer you to a Master trainer (Marz at the Temple of Bruma) to be [[LostForever killed offscreen]], locking you out of Restoration Master Training if you didn't already meet her beforehand and get her recommendation. Nothing in the game warns you that this is going to happen, and you could very easily lock yourself out of the stat boosting if you didn't have a resource that told you otherwise.
12th Feb '17 9:54:08 AM Gosicrystal
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** If you find Admiral Kohaku's men and tell him about their loss, he leaves the Citadel, which can render a number of other sidequests LostForever. There is no warning about this.

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** If you find Admiral Kohaku's men and tell him about their loss, he leaves the Citadel, which can render a number of other sidequests LostForever.[[PermanentlyMissableContent undoable]]. There is no warning about this.



** There are three quests in Oblivion that are "undocumented"--they won't show up in your journal, ever, though the game still checks them off internally. That means that even if by chance you happen to stumble across an aspect of the quest (which is unlikely in and of itself, as one is easily LostForever, one occurs in a place you'll never need to revisit, and the last is in the middle of gods-forsaken nowhere) you still won't have any idea where to go or how to progress. They are:

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** There are three quests in Oblivion that are "undocumented"--they won't show up in your journal, ever, though the game still checks them off internally. That means that even if by chance you happen to stumble across an aspect of the quest (which is unlikely in and of itself, as one is easily LostForever, [[PermanentlyMissableContent lost]], one occurs in a place you'll never need to revisit, and the last is in the middle of gods-forsaken nowhere) you still won't have any idea where to go or how to progress. They are:



** The game is peppered with other instances of this trope. Example One: using the Green Skull is the best (and possibly only) way to kill the Lahrkon guarding the Urbish Mines, but you might not figure this out until you'd tried everything else. Example Two: the fact that the Emerald Blade is the best (and possibly only) weapon to use against Wraiths is only mentioned once, in an easily-missed book in the only library in the game, which is located on the very first map, which is inaccessible by the time you're fighting Wraiths, which are easily capable of wiping out your entire party in a single blow. It's also possible to miss both Green Skulls and both Emerald Blades.
*** Worse, it's possible to screw up due to the Barrier placements and have your only other available weapon against the Wraiths {{Lost Forever}}. Bye bye plot development.

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** The game is peppered with other instances of this trope. Example One: using the Green Skull is the best (and possibly only) way to kill the Lahrkon guarding the Urbish Mines, but you might not figure this out until you'd tried everything else. Example Two: the fact that the Emerald Blade is the best (and possibly only) weapon to use against Wraiths is only mentioned once, in an easily-missed book in the only library in the game, which is located on the very first map, which is inaccessible by the time you're fighting Wraiths, which are easily capable of wiping out your entire party in a single blow. It's also possible to miss both Green Skulls and both Emerald Blades.
***
Blades. Worse, it's possible to screw up due to the Barrier placements and have your only other available weapon against the Wraiths {{Lost Forever}}.[[PermanentlyMissableContent lost for good]]. Bye bye plot development.



** There's also Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, where achieving desired outcomes—[[EarnYourHappyEnding especially the "golden" outcomes]]—can require a guide to figure out exactly what to do. It's possible to have [[spoiler:Celene and Briala reconcile]] or have [[spoiler:all three contenders for the throne work together]], but require frustratingly exact directions to achieve.
** And there's War Table missions, where your choice of advisor in one mission can have no real impact on the outcome...and your choice in the next can bring [[LostForever an abrupt and]] [[TearJerker tragic end]] to a chain of missions, along with any rewards they might have brought.

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** There's also Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, where achieving desired outcomes—[[EarnYourHappyEnding especially the "golden" outcomes]]—can require a guide to figure out exactly what to do. It's possible to have [[spoiler:Celene and Briala reconcile]] or have [[spoiler:all three contenders for the throne work together]], but require frustratingly exact directions to achieve.
** And there's War Table missions, where your choice of advisor in one mission can have no real impact on the outcome...outcome... and your choice in the next can bring [[LostForever [[PermanentlyMissableContent an abrupt and]] [[TearJerker tragic end]] to a chain of missions, along with any rewards they might have brought.
1st Feb '17 11:30:05 AM mogryo
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** Consider that the original version rewarded either balls-out grinding (to master EVERY skill set) or canny deduction and numerology (to figure out which ONE skill set to master). Making it stupid would certainly anger just about everybody.
*** Gamers tend to hate when you render all their "accomplishments" trivial.
23rd Dec '16 9:18:04 AM BeerBaron
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*** As mentioned, Vampirism itself is extremely difficult to acquire without a guide. You could easily play for dozens of hours without realizing that vampires are even in the game, much less learning that you can become one. They inhabit only a few out-of-the-way crypts or ruins, they are immediately hostile to you, and there is only a small chance of catching the pre-disease (Porphyric Hemophilia) while fighting them. Because the disease is so benign in the first three days after catching it, you may not even realize you have it until you suddenly change. This is particularly bad because if you catch it while wiping out the inhabitants of one of the headquarters of one of the vampire clans, you'll cut yourself off from that vampire clan questline. Did we mention that, while a vampire, your clan headquarters will be the only place for you to barter for supplies? While you can still complete quests for a few groups (House Telvanni and the Mages Guild), no other bartering or fast travel services will be available to you. Further, there is no indication in the game itself about which clan you have been infected by or where their headquarters are if you are infected elsewhere.
3rd Dec '16 6:54:05 PM CompletelyNormalGuy
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** Want one of the best (so much that some consider it a GameBreaker) NPC companions in the gamr? Then you need to know exactly what to do when entering a certain city, where one of the citizens is [[KickTheDog kicking a wounded dog]] on the ground. That dog is your future companion if you manage to tell the citizen to stop kicking the pooch. The only problem is that the already wounded dog is kicked constantly and can very easily die before you even know anything happened if you don't run straight away to the scene of action as soon as you enter the area.

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** Want one of the best (so much that some consider it a GameBreaker) NPC companions in the gamr? game? Then you need to know exactly what to do when entering a certain city, where one of the citizens is [[KickTheDog kicking a wounded dog]] on the ground. That dog is your future companion if you manage to tell the citizen to stop kicking the pooch. The only problem is that the already wounded dog is kicked constantly and can very easily die before you even know anything happened if you don't run straight away to the scene of action as soon as you enter the area.
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