History Fridge / UminekoWhenTheyCry

12th Mar '16 9:44:42 PM FamFamFamFamFam
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** As stated above, Battler hates chick!Beatrice calling him father. [[spoiler:In EP7, the full implications of this are revealed.]] However, there's an additional layer behind this. Battler became Game Master at the end of episode 5, confirming that he figured out the truth about the Rokkenjima Murders. So why did he hate it when chick!Beatrice calling him father? Because ''he had already learned the truth about [[spoiler:ParentalIncest Beatrice's ancestry.'']] This subtly implies that becoming Game Master also means ''knowing every character from the inside out, including their personal history.'' He probably knew about Maria's imagined killing of Rosa too!

to:

** As stated above, Battler hates chick!Beatrice calling him father. [[spoiler:In EP7, the full implications of this are revealed.]] However, there's an additional layer behind this. Battler became Game Master at the end of episode 5, confirming that he figured out the truth about the Rokkenjima Murders. So why did he hate it when chick!Beatrice calling him father? Because ''he had already learned the truth about [[spoiler:ParentalIncest Beatrice's [[spoiler:[[ParentalIncest Beatrice's]] ancestry.'']] This subtly implies that becoming Game Master also means ''knowing every character from the inside out, including their personal history.'' He probably knew about Maria's imagined killing of Rosa too!
12th Mar '16 9:43:44 PM FamFamFamFamFam
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* As stated above, Battler hates chick!Beatrice calling him father. [[spoiler:In EP7, the full implications of this are revealed.]] However, there's an additional layer behind this. Battler became Game Master at the end of episode 5, confirming that he figured out the truth about the Rokkenjima Murders. So why did he hate it when chick!Beatrice calling him father? Because ''he had already learned the truth about [[spoiler:ParentalIncest Beatrice's ancestry.'']] This subtly implies that becoming Game Master also means ''knowing every character from the inside out, including their personal history.'' He probably knew about Maria's imagined killing of Rosa too!
* EP8 Battler's stoic demeanor when questioning people like Gohda and Kumasawa about finding the bodies becomes jarring and disgustingly frightening when you learn that [[spoiler:he was an accomplice of the true murderers, Kyrie and Rudolf.]] ''The acting was perfect.''

to:

* ** As stated above, Battler hates chick!Beatrice calling him father. [[spoiler:In EP7, the full implications of this are revealed.]] However, there's an additional layer behind this. Battler became Game Master at the end of episode 5, confirming that he figured out the truth about the Rokkenjima Murders. So why did he hate it when chick!Beatrice calling him father? Because ''he had already learned the truth about [[spoiler:ParentalIncest Beatrice's ancestry.'']] This subtly implies that becoming Game Master also means ''knowing every character from the inside out, including their personal history.'' He probably knew about Maria's imagined killing of Rosa too!
* ** EP8 Battler's stoic demeanor when questioning people like Gohda and Kumasawa about finding the bodies becomes jarring and disgustingly frightening when you learn that [[spoiler:he was an accomplice of the true murderers, Kyrie and Rudolf.]] ''The acting was perfect.'''' What guarantee is there that Battler ''wasn't'' acting in the earlier games?!
12th Mar '16 9:41:39 PM FamFamFamFamFam
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* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.

to:

* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.reality.
* {{Tropers/famfamfamfamfam}}
* As stated above, Battler hates chick!Beatrice calling him father. [[spoiler:In EP7, the full implications of this are revealed.]] However, there's an additional layer behind this. Battler became Game Master at the end of episode 5, confirming that he figured out the truth about the Rokkenjima Murders. So why did he hate it when chick!Beatrice calling him father? Because ''he had already learned the truth about [[spoiler:ParentalIncest Beatrice's ancestry.'']] This subtly implies that becoming Game Master also means ''knowing every character from the inside out, including their personal history.'' He probably knew about Maria's imagined killing of Rosa too!
* EP8 Battler's stoic demeanor when questioning people like Gohda and Kumasawa about finding the bodies becomes jarring and disgustingly frightening when you learn that [[spoiler:he was an accomplice of the true murderers, Kyrie and Rudolf.]] ''The acting was perfect.''
31st Oct '15 5:48:34 PM nombretomado
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*** As Maria, Ange, and Bernkastel express multiple times, the original purpose of magic is to bring happiness. But, even more, magic is dependent upon the belief in it. Hence those who can freely and visibly use magic (i.e. a witch) must necessarily be at an emotional point where their desire for happiness is not only a consistent desire of theirs but also vastly greater than everyone else's disbelief. In short, [[PuellaMagiMadokaMagica who else would obtain this vast power and, in doing so, abandon their human life other than one who believes they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so?]]

to:

*** As Maria, Ange, and Bernkastel express multiple times, the original purpose of magic is to bring happiness. But, even more, magic is dependent upon the belief in it. Hence those who can freely and visibly use magic (i.e. a witch) must necessarily be at an emotional point where their desire for happiness is not only a consistent desire of theirs but also vastly greater than everyone else's disbelief. In short, [[PuellaMagiMadokaMagica [[Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica who else would obtain this vast power and, in doing so, abandon their human life other than one who believes they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so?]]
24th Sep '15 1:06:52 AM GendoIkari
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Added DiffLines:

** Another possibility has to be considered: [[spoiler:even if they had no proof, Kinzo's children had long suspected their father had a mistress, and by that logic, they may have also suspected that Fukuin House wasn't some charitable endeavor by Kinzo (in fact, at the end of the series it's revealed that after the 1986 tragedy it was closed down, and was reopened decades later thanks to Ange), but a way to hide some illegitimate child. In a word, they already suspected one of the young servants to be Kinzo's lovechild, even more because they were allowed to bear the family crest. Eva's disapproval was also due to what would have meant if her suspicions were true (and ''they were'')]].
14th Sep '15 11:13:17 AM Romanovg185
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to:

* The chess analogies go even further. Some people say that there are an infinite number of possible games of chess, but this is not the case. There is a specific number of possible games. This is called, wait for it, Shannon's Number. As Shannon's Number limits the number of possible games of chess, [[spoiler: the fact that Shannon/Yasu is the killer]] limits the possibilities of the endless games on the Game Board, because [[spoiler: Shannon/Yasu must always be the killer]].



* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.
* The chess analogies go even further. Some people say that there are an infinite number of possible games of chess, but this is not the case. There is a specific number of possible games. This is called, wait for it, Shannon's Number. As Shannon's Number limits the number of possible games of chess, [[spoiler: the fact that Shannon/Yasu is the killer]] limits the possibilities of the endless games on the Game Board, because [[spoiler: Shannon/Yasu must always be the killer]].

to:

* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.
* The chess analogies go even further. Some people say that there are an infinite number of possible games of chess, but this is not the case. There is a specific number of possible games. This is called, wait for it, Shannon's Number. As Shannon's Number limits the number of possible games of chess, [[spoiler: the fact that Shannon/Yasu is the killer]] limits the possibilities of the endless games on the Game Board, because [[spoiler: Shannon/Yasu must always be the killer]].
reality.
14th Sep '15 10:26:59 AM Romanovg185
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* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.

to:

* Battler's initial insistence on attempting to avoid having anyone he knows be guilty of the murders becomes particularly horrifying once you know who was actually responsible for most of the killings in reality.reality.
* The chess analogies go even further. Some people say that there are an infinite number of possible games of chess, but this is not the case. There is a specific number of possible games. This is called, wait for it, Shannon's Number. As Shannon's Number limits the number of possible games of chess, [[spoiler: the fact that Shannon/Yasu is the killer]] limits the possibilities of the endless games on the Game Board, because [[spoiler: Shannon/Yasu must always be the killer]].
21st May '15 1:43:13 PM ShinyTsukkomi
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** The ages of the witches are said to be metaphorically representative of how long their suffering felt like. Bern's single repeated month of [[spoiler:trying to solve [[HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi Featherine and Lambda's abandoned game]] as a self-aware piece]] felt like a hundred years, Beatrice's [[spoiler:six-year wait for Battler to come back]] felt like a thousand, and so on. This turns into HarsherInHindsight mixed with a little FridgeHorror in EP 6--first when [[spoiler:chick!Beato is introduced as a "clean slate" with a completely pure heart, and it's stated that she'd only become like the original Beatrice III if she lived through the same "thousand years"]], then with [[spoiler:Battler in the closed room]], where Kanon wonders how many years it felt like this had gone on.

to:

** The ages of the witches are said to be metaphorically representative of how long their suffering felt like. Bern's single repeated month of [[spoiler:trying to solve [[HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Featherine and Lambda's abandoned game]] as a self-aware piece]] felt like a hundred years, Beatrice's [[spoiler:six-year wait for Battler to come back]] felt like a thousand, and so on. This turns into HarsherInHindsight mixed with a little FridgeHorror in EP 6--first when [[spoiler:chick!Beato is introduced as a "clean slate" with a completely pure heart, and it's stated that she'd only become like the original Beatrice III if she lived through the same "thousand years"]], then with [[spoiler:Battler in the closed room]], where Kanon wonders how many years it felt like this had gone on.



** For a good while I wondered that, if [[spoiler:all the episodes beside the first were written by Hachiyo Tohya / Battler, then what are the two clear Higurashi expies doing in the story. But then, as I re-read the first chapter, I found something amazing: After the first six murders, Battler discusses the suspects with Eva, and then he off-handedly mentions that he read Higurashi as a mystery-novel beforehand! I don't exactly know how that fits into the timeline, but this suddenly explains the presence of Bernkastel and Lambdadelta as created by Tohya's mind in reference to the corresponding characters in Higurashi.]]

to:

** For a good while I wondered that, if [[spoiler:all the episodes beside the first were written by Hachiyo Tohya / Battler, then what are the two clear Higurashi ''Higurashi'' expies doing in the story. But then, as I re-read the first chapter, I found something amazing: After the first six murders, Battler discusses the suspects with Eva, and then he off-handedly mentions that he read Higurashi ''Higurashi'' as a mystery-novel beforehand! I don't exactly know how that fits into the timeline, but this suddenly explains the presence of Bernkastel and Lambdadelta as created by Tohya's mind in reference to the corresponding characters in Higurashi.''Higurashi''.]]



** Another thing regarding the witches' ages: [[spoiler: Since Higurashi and Umineko are in the same universe, it makes a lot of sense when the witches claim to be over a thousand years if you think about the crap that their Higurashi "doppelgangers" went through. Bernkastel is all of the Rikas who never made it to July 1983 and it felt like a thousand years to her, which is why she claims to be that age. Lambdadelta has Satoko's prankster personality and looks identical to young Takano Miyo. Satoko was ostracized by the village for what her parents did, lost her parents, was abused by her aunt and uncle, and her brother disappeared, where Takano's whole life was one huge TraumaCongaLine. No wonder she's in a high ranking of witches. Featherine looks like Hanyuu and talks like Hanyuu in God Mode and Hanyuu was sacrificed and watched over and over as the villagers went mad and tore each other apart and could do nothing about it. "Witch of Theatregoing", I see. And then when you see what Beatrice, Maria, Ange-Beatrice and Eva-Beatrice went through, it's almost as if the number one requisite for becoming a witch is to have a horrible life.]]

to:

** Another thing regarding the witches' ages: [[spoiler: Since Higurashi Since'' Higurashi'' and Umineko ''Umineko'' are in the same universe, it makes a lot of sense when the witches claim to be over a thousand years if you think about the crap that their Higurashi ''Higurashi'' "doppelgangers" went through. Bernkastel is all of the Rikas who never made it to July 1983 and it felt like a thousand years to her, which is why she claims to be that age. Lambdadelta has Satoko's prankster personality and looks identical to young Takano Miyo. Satoko was ostracized by the village for what her parents did, lost her parents, was abused by her aunt and uncle, and her brother disappeared, where Takano's whole life was one huge TraumaCongaLine. No wonder she's in a high ranking of witches. Featherine looks like Hanyuu and talks like Hanyuu in God Mode and Hanyuu was sacrificed and watched over and over as the villagers went mad and tore each other apart and could do nothing about it. "Witch of Theatregoing", I see. And then when you see what Beatrice, Maria, Ange-Beatrice and Eva-Beatrice went through, it's almost as if the number one requisite for becoming a witch is to have a horrible life.]]



* {{Tropers/Aelesis}}: Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Higurashi): "Demons in Hell, I bet you are just waiting for an amusing end to happen while eating some popcorn." And then I realised whose piece Umineko's popcorn-lover was in Higurashi.

to:

* {{Tropers/Aelesis}}: Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Higurashi): (''Higurashi''): "Demons in Hell, I bet you are just waiting for an amusing end to happen while eating some popcorn." And then I realised whose piece Umineko's popcorn-lover was in Higurashi.''Higurashi''.



** Bernkastel has some personal FridgeHorror once you realize the depths of her origins. [[spoiler:[[{{VisualNovel/HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi}} Rika has finally won her fight against fate and can live in a peaceful world with her friends]], but fate throws her one final curve ball in Saikoroshi-hen where she has to come to terms with her past. In succeeding she gets to go back to her own world, but purging herself of the past eventually gave rise to Bernkastel... who is more than implied to have all of the original Rika's memories. In a way, Bern fought for Hinamizawa as well... [[ShootTheShaggyDog but doesn't get to live in the peaceful world she was a part of and fought for]].]] It's not hard to understand why she's so bitter.
** And it doesn't end there either; Featherine Augustus Aurora might have her own hands in this mess. Given what we know about Bernkastel, there are several implications that [[spoiler:Higurashi was a game Lambdadelta and Featherine, with Bern as Featherine's piece - as in ''the piece that Featherine abandoned''. When Rika won the game and later purged herself Bernkastel, it was Featherine who found her and recruited her as her miko. Either it's a case of simple negligence and getting lucky enough to find Bernkastel and piece her together later... or she '''knew and planned right from the start''' for her to come into existence.]] Given Featherine's nature this is alarmingly possible and, if true, would arguably make her the BigBad of the ''entire Franchise/WhenTheyCry series'' so far.

to:

** Bernkastel has some personal FridgeHorror once you realize the depths of her origins. [[spoiler:[[{{VisualNovel/HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi}} [[spoiler:[[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Rika has finally won her fight against fate and can live in a peaceful world with her friends]], but fate throws her one final curve ball in Saikoroshi-hen where she has to come to terms with her past. In succeeding she gets to go back to her own world, but purging herself of the past eventually gave rise to Bernkastel... who is more than implied to have all of the original Rika's memories. In a way, Bern fought for Hinamizawa as well... [[ShootTheShaggyDog but doesn't get to live in the peaceful world she was a part of and fought for]].]] It's not hard to understand why she's so bitter.
** And it doesn't end there either; Featherine Augustus Aurora might have her own hands in this mess. Given what we know about Bernkastel, there are several implications that [[spoiler:Higurashi [[spoiler:''Higurashi'' was a game Lambdadelta and Featherine, with Bern as Featherine's piece - as in ''the piece that Featherine abandoned''. When Rika won the game and later purged herself Bernkastel, it was Featherine who found her and recruited her as her miko. Either it's a case of simple negligence and getting lucky enough to find Bernkastel and piece her together later... or she '''knew and planned right from the start''' for her to come into existence.]] Given Featherine's nature this is alarmingly possible and, if true, would arguably make her the BigBad of the ''entire Franchise/WhenTheyCry series'' so far.
29th Mar '15 3:16:39 PM Arkanian
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* In episode 3, there's a portion where Ronove gives Battler a handful of red truths in Beatrice's stead. At first it seems like the only reason Ronove is giving them instead of Beatrice is to give Ronove a bit more characterization, since even Ronove himself admits that if he hadn't made those red statements then Beatrice would have made them herself when she returned. [[spoiler: Except one of those red truths is "A conversation like this happened between Kinzo and Beatrice-Sama at this place." If Beatrice were forced to make this statement, she would have to say "A conversation between Kinzo and ''I''" -- except she ''can't'', because it's a ''different Beatrice''. By having Ronove tell Battler that particular red truth instead of telling him in person, she's concealing the fact that the Beatrice killed by Rosa was a different person!]]

to:

* In episode 3, there's a portion where Ronove gives Battler a handful of red truths in Beatrice's stead. At first it seems like the only reason Ronove is giving them instead of Beatrice is to give Ronove a bit more characterization, since even Ronove himself admits that if he hadn't made those red statements then Beatrice would have made them herself when she returned. [[spoiler: Except one of those red truths is "A conversation like this happened between Kinzo and Beatrice-Sama at this place." If Beatrice were forced to make this statement, statement herself, she would have to say "A conversation between Kinzo and ''I''" ''I'' " -- except she ''can't'', because it's the person the truth referred to was a ''different Beatrice''. Beatrice!'' By having Ronove tell Battler that particular red truth instead of telling him in person, herself, she's concealing the fact that the Beatrice killed by Rosa was a different person!]]
29th Mar '15 3:14:40 PM Arkanian
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* In episode 3, there's a portion where Ronove gives Battler a handful of red truths in Beatrice's stead. At first it seems like the only reason Ronove is giving them instead of Beatrice is to give Ronove a bit more characterization, since even Ronove himself admits that if he hadn't made those red statements then Beatrice would have made them herself when she returned. [spoiler: Except one of those red truths is "A conversation like this happened between Kinzo and Beatrice-Sama at this place." If Beatrice were forced to make this statement, she would have to say "A conversation between Kinzo and ''I''" -- except she ''can't'', because it's a ''different Beatrice''. By having Ronove tell Battler that particular red truth instead of telling him in person, she's concealing the fact that the Beatrice killed by Rosa was a different person!]]

to:

* In episode 3, there's a portion where Ronove gives Battler a handful of red truths in Beatrice's stead. At first it seems like the only reason Ronove is giving them instead of Beatrice is to give Ronove a bit more characterization, since even Ronove himself admits that if he hadn't made those red statements then Beatrice would have made them herself when she returned. [spoiler: [[spoiler: Except one of those red truths is "A conversation like this happened between Kinzo and Beatrice-Sama at this place." If Beatrice were forced to make this statement, she would have to say "A conversation between Kinzo and ''I''" -- except she ''can't'', because it's a ''different Beatrice''. By having Ronove tell Battler that particular red truth instead of telling him in person, she's concealing the fact that the Beatrice killed by Rosa was a different person!]]
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