History Fridge / TheSandman

14th Apr '17 7:33:31 PM BiffJr
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** I dunno, that doesn't actually seem all that likely.
*** It makes perfect sense to me in the context of Dream giving Hob a context for just how much of an impertinent request immortality was. Also, let's not forget, Hob realizes that Dream has motives even he's not aware of. Centuries of prosperity or suffering alone would make Hob a poor friend.
30th Mar '17 5:40:27 AM banana0042
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Added DiffLines:

* The Endless refer to Destruction as "The Prodigal" but that only really works as a reference to the parable since the word prodigal refers to [[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prodigal reckless spending on opulence]] (like the son did in the parable), which doesn't describe Destruction at all, especially given his vagabond existance after he left.
29th Nov '16 8:28:10 AM Doc_Loki
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** In the same issue that introduces The Connoisseur, there's a RunningGag about the absence of a killed known as "The Family Man". The reason for his absence is never revealed in the story itself, but if you were reading ''[[ComicBook/JohnConstantine Hellblazer]]'' at around the same time, you'd know why he didn't make it. [[spoiler:John killed The Family Man to avenge the murder of his father at The Family Man's hands.]]

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** In the same issue that introduces The Connoisseur, there's a RunningGag about the absence of a killed killer known as "The Family Man". The reason for his absence is never revealed in the story itself, but if you were reading ''[[ComicBook/JohnConstantine Hellblazer]]'' at around the same time, you'd know why he didn't make it. [[spoiler:John killed The Family Man to avenge the murder of his father at The Family Man's hands.]]
29th Nov '16 8:27:29 AM Doc_Loki
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** In the same issue that introduces The Connoisseur, there's a RunningGag about the absence of a killed known as "The Family Man". The reason for his absence is never revealed in the story itself, but if you were reading ''[[ComicBook/JohnConstantine Hellblazer]]'' at around the same time, you'd know why he didn't make it. [[spoiler:John killed The Family Man to avenge the murder of his father at The Family Man's hands.]]



** The never-born are stated to be inhabitants of Hell earlier in the book. At one point we even see ground covered in dead babies in Hell's landscape. This is a part of the long-standing Christian belief that unbaptized children can't enter Heaven. Ofcourse just because it's this way doesn't mean that it can't simultaneously be other ways too, ''ComicBook/TheSandman'' [[MindScrew being what it is.]]

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** The never-born are stated to be inhabitants of Hell earlier in the book. At one point we even see ground covered in dead babies in Hell's landscape. This is a part of the long-standing Christian belief that unbaptized children can't enter Heaven. Ofcourse Of course just because it's this way doesn't mean that it can't simultaneously be other ways too, ''ComicBook/TheSandman'' [[MindScrew being what it is.]]



* There's one particularly unsettling implication in "Men of Good Fortune" that isn't so much "horrific" as "incredibly depressing". In the course of that story, we learn that Hob Gadling managed to get fabulously wealthy at two points in his life by [[BeenThereShapedHistory getting involved in two historically important business ventures]]: the printing business in the 15th century, and the Atlantic slave trade in the 18th century. Note that he predicts that [[ItWillNeverCatchOn printing will never be a truly profitable business]] ("There'll never be a real demand for it"), and only takes it up as a trade because he's a professional soldier who needs a steady job in peacetime, and because it's a relatively new business that doesn't require guild membership. On the other hand, he's absolutely ''certain'' that shipping slaves will net him a tidy profit, and (initially) considers it one of his best ideas. In other words, TheEveryman Hob doesn't recognize the true potential of spreading and preserving literature through the printing press, but he has no trouble seeing the potential of buying and selling Africans as property. A subtle but effective HumansAreBastards message.
* A subtle one from "Collectors": The Corinthian was asked to be the guest of honor at the serial convention because the previous headliner, the "Family Man", wasn't able to show. At the end of the story, Morpheus takes away the shared dream of the killers that validated their murders, implying that they would cease killing. The Family Man wasn't there, and didn't have his dream taken away, and is presumably still out there doing whatever earned him his horrifying moniker...

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* There's one particularly unsettling implication in "Men of Good Fortune" that isn't so much "horrific" as "incredibly depressing". In the course of that story, we learn that Hob Gadling managed to get fabulously wealthy at two points in his life by [[BeenThereShapedHistory getting involved in two historically important business ventures]]: the printing business in the 15th century, and the Atlantic slave trade in the 18th century. Note that he predicts that [[ItWillNeverCatchOn printing will never be a truly profitable business]] ("There'll never be a real demand for it"), and only takes it up as a trade because he's a professional soldier who needs a steady job in peacetime, and because it's a relatively new business that doesn't require guild membership. On the other hand, he's absolutely ''certain'' that shipping slaves will net him a tidy profit, and (initially) considers it one of his best ideas. In other words, TheEveryman Hob doesn't recognize the true potential of spreading and preserving literature through the printing press, but he has no trouble seeing the potential of buying and selling Africans as property. A subtle but effective HumansAreBastards message.
* A subtle one from "Collectors": The Corinthian was asked to be the guest of honor at the serial convention because the previous headliner, the "Family Man", wasn't able to show. At the end of the story, Morpheus takes away the shared dream of the killers that validated their murders, implying that they would cease killing. The Family Man wasn't there, and didn't have his dream taken away, and is presumably still out there doing whatever earned him his horrifying moniker...
message.
4th Oct '16 5:10:55 PM PlasticWhisperer
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* There's one particularly unsettling implication in "Men of Good Fortune" that isn't so much "horrific" as "incredibly depressing". In the course of that story, we learn that Hob Gadling managed to get fabulously wealthy at two points in his life by [[BeenThereShapedHistory getting involved in two historically important business ventures]]: the printing business in the 15th century, and the Atlantic slave trade in the 18th century. Note that he predicts that [[ItWillNeverCatchOn printing will never be a truly profitable business]] ("There'll never be a real demand for it"), and only takes it up as a trade because he's a professional soldier who needs a steady job in peacetime, and because it's a relatively new business that doesn't require guild membership. On the other hand, he's absolutely ''certain'' that shipping slaves will net him a tidy profit, and (initially) considers it one of his best ideas. In other words, TheEveryman Hob doesn't recognize the true potential of spreading and preserving literature through the printing press, but he has no trouble seeing the potential of buying and selling Africans as property. A subtle but effective HumansAreBastards message.

to:

* There's one particularly unsettling implication in "Men of Good Fortune" that isn't so much "horrific" as "incredibly depressing". In the course of that story, we learn that Hob Gadling managed to get fabulously wealthy at two points in his life by [[BeenThereShapedHistory getting involved in two historically important business ventures]]: the printing business in the 15th century, and the Atlantic slave trade in the 18th century. Note that he predicts that [[ItWillNeverCatchOn printing will never be a truly profitable business]] ("There'll never be a real demand for it"), and only takes it up as a trade because he's a professional soldier who needs a steady job in peacetime, and because it's a relatively new business that doesn't require guild membership. On the other hand, he's absolutely ''certain'' that shipping slaves will net him a tidy profit, and (initially) considers it one of his best ideas. In other words, TheEveryman Hob doesn't recognize the true potential of spreading and preserving literature through the printing press, but he has no trouble seeing the potential of buying and selling Africans as property. A subtle but effective HumansAreBastards message.message.
* A subtle one from "Collectors": The Corinthian was asked to be the guest of honor at the serial convention because the previous headliner, the "Family Man", wasn't able to show. At the end of the story, Morpheus takes away the shared dream of the killers that validated their murders, implying that they would cease killing. The Family Man wasn't there, and didn't have his dream taken away, and is presumably still out there doing whatever earned him his horrifying moniker...
7th Jul '16 2:20:48 AM Civanfan
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* In ''Calliope'' the eponymous muse inspires both of her masters to write the same sort of terrifying horror stories. Given her [[SexSlave position]], it seems unlikely that she's in the mood to inspire anything else.
20th Apr '16 6:22:03 AM TheMightyHeptagon
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**** It's also possible that Widening Gyre, not even being canon at the time it was written, has nothing to do with Sandman.

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**** It's also possible that Widening Gyre, not even being canon at the time it was written, has nothing to do with Sandman.Sandman.
* There's one particularly unsettling implication in "Men of Good Fortune" that isn't so much "horrific" as "incredibly depressing". In the course of that story, we learn that Hob Gadling managed to get fabulously wealthy at two points in his life by [[BeenThereShapedHistory getting involved in two historically important business ventures]]: the printing business in the 15th century, and the Atlantic slave trade in the 18th century. Note that he predicts that [[ItWillNeverCatchOn printing will never be a truly profitable business]] ("There'll never be a real demand for it"), and only takes it up as a trade because he's a professional soldier who needs a steady job in peacetime, and because it's a relatively new business that doesn't require guild membership. On the other hand, he's absolutely ''certain'' that shipping slaves will net him a tidy profit, and (initially) considers it one of his best ideas. In other words, TheEveryman Hob doesn't recognize the true potential of spreading and preserving literature through the printing press, but he has no trouble seeing the potential of buying and selling Africans as property. A subtle but effective HumansAreBastards message.
26th Nov '15 5:52:50 PM nombretomado
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* I always kinda wondered why [[SandmanMysteryTheatre Wesley Dodds]] would fight crime if he's an avatar of [[ComicBook/TheSandman Dream]], since he never seemed to care much about human morality. Then The Corinthian makes a brief cameo in the Phantom Of The Fair arc & it all begins to make sense. The Corinthian tends to turn the people he doesn't simply kill into {{Serial Killer}}s, which is the main sort of crime Wes fights. His true purpose is cleaning up the mess The Corinthian's been making since he escaped -- Tropers/{{biznizz}}

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* I always kinda wondered why [[SandmanMysteryTheatre [[ComicBook/SandmanMysteryTheatre Wesley Dodds]] would fight crime if he's an avatar of [[ComicBook/TheSandman Dream]], since he never seemed to care much about human morality. Then The Corinthian makes a brief cameo in the Phantom Of The Fair arc & it all begins to make sense. The Corinthian tends to turn the people he doesn't simply kill into {{Serial Killer}}s, which is the main sort of crime Wes fights. His true purpose is cleaning up the mess The Corinthian's been making since he escaped -- Tropers/{{biznizz}}
16th Nov '15 3:14:20 PM LBHills
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*** Further than this, there is another way to interpret Despair. In [[spoiler: Dream's]] funeral, she notes that she will always despair for him, and that she will never forget him, even when everybody (as in, all beings) forget him. This points that a big part of Despair's nature is remembering past pains, in a way like a witness. So in a way she ''won'' because Superman ''remembers'' the tragedy and acts as a witness for the destruction of Krypton. Despair may not necessarily be about actual desesperation, but also about memory and survivor's guilt.

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*** Further than this, there is another way to interpret Despair. In [[spoiler: Dream's]] funeral, she notes that she will always despair grieve for him, and that she will never forget him, even when everybody (as in, all beings) forget him. This points out that a big part of Despair's nature is remembering past pains, pains - a witness in a way like a witness.way. So in a way she ''won'' because Superman ''remembers'' the tragedy and acts as a witness for the destruction of Krypton. Despair may not necessarily just be about actual desesperation, abandoning hope and purpose, but also about memory and survivor's guilt.
5th Sep '15 8:44:41 PM LBHills
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* In ''Dream of a Thousand Cats'', Dream tells a cat that the universe can be changed when many beings fall asleep and have the same dream. The cat wants vengeance for it's kittens that were killed by humans and attempts to convince others to dream of a world where cats are larger than humans, rule the world, and hunt them for sport. Just more crazy rules of the dream world? No. Why the hell would many people dreaming the same thing make it true? Morpheus can force them to dream whatever he wants, and a world in which cats eat those that serve them couldn't be sustainable. He lied. He gave the cat just like Joshua Norton a goal that wouldn't really be achieved, but their dreams gave them both power, a reason to live, and perhaps joy.

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* In ''Dream of a Thousand Cats'', Dream tells a cat that the universe can be changed when many beings fall asleep and have the same dream. The cat wants vengeance for it's its kittens that were killed by humans humans, and attempts to convince others to dream of a world where cats are larger than humans, rule the world, and hunt them for sport. Just more crazy rules of the dream world? No. Why the hell would many people dreaming the same thing make it true? Morpheus can force them to dream whatever he wants, and a world in which cats eat those that serve them couldn't be sustainable. He lied. He gave the cat just like Joshua Norton a goal that wouldn't really be achieved, but their dreams gave them both power, a reason to live, and perhaps joy.
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