History Fridge / ThePhantomMenace

16th Jun '17 10:35:37 PM Nakuyabi
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* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine. The only thing that could even theoretically have hurt Palpatine is the Jedi capturing Maul and [[HauledBeforeASenateSubcommittee have him testify in a senate hearing]] as to who his master/employer is.

to:

* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance Menace was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine. The only thing that could even theoretically have hurt Palpatine is the Jedi capturing Maul and [[HauledBeforeASenateSubcommittee have him testify in a senate hearing]] as to who his master/employer is.is.
* The Gungans celebrating their victory after the droids holding them at gunpoint suddenly go dead might seem a little silly, considering that technically, they'd just ''lost'' their battle against those droids. However, winning the ''battle'' was never their objective in the first place: as they discussed with Queen Amidala, their purpose in marching out on that field was to draw the vast majority of the droid army out of the city and keep it busy while her military and palace guard went after the droid control ship and the viceroy in command of the invasion respectively. By holding the droids back as long as they did and then retreating as necessary, they achieved their real objective, which was to win the ''war''. Their celebration and subsequent acclaim at the parade held in their honor is well-earned, since Amidala and her people couldn't have retaken the planet without the Gungans holding the line.
16th Jun '17 9:50:32 PM Nakuyabi
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** Padm&eacute in particular is clearly more hard-bitten and politically experienced at fourteen than anyone gives her credit for being. Also, though her monarchy isn't hereditary, where are her ''parents''? One would think even if they have no real political power from being related to the queen, they still ought to be there with her in her palace, but no, this fourteen-year-old is ruling ''alone''. I don't see any parents and family for her handmaidens there either. Maybe Naboo is a TeenageWasteland as well?
* Realizing that ''every last character'' signed their proverbial death certificate in the ending. Anakin gets trained by a grieving, inexperienced Knight barely out of a Padawan braid, who is completely unable to handle the task of an unruly unconventional trainee who ''hasn't'' been confined to an enclave all his life. Obi-Wan, said grieving and inexperienced Knight, will be killed by Anakin later. Padmé and Anakin have a PrecociousCrush that will end in a tragic mess of a marriage and their mutual destruction. Palpatine has been elected Chancellor, starting his rise to power that will eventually destroy almost every other character present, directly or indirectly. Worse, it all looked like a victory at the time.

to:

** Padm&eacute Padmé in particular is clearly more hard-bitten and politically experienced at fourteen than anyone gives her credit for being. Also, though her monarchy isn't hereditary, where are her ''parents''? One would think even if they have no real political power from being related to the queen, they still ought to be there with her in her palace, but no, this fourteen-year-old is ruling ''alone''. I don't see any parents and family for her handmaidens there either. Maybe Naboo is a TeenageWasteland as well?
* Realizing that ''every last character'' signed their proverbial death certificate in the ending. Anakin gets trained by a grieving, inexperienced Knight barely out of a Padawan braid, who is completely unable to handle the task of an unruly unconventional trainee who ''hasn't'' been confined to an enclave all his life. Obi-Wan, said grieving and inexperienced Knight, will be killed by Anakin later. Padmé Padmé; and Anakin have a PrecociousCrush that will end in a tragic mess of a marriage and their mutual destruction. Palpatine has been elected Chancellor, starting his rise to power that will eventually destroy almost every other character present, directly or indirectly. Worse, it all looked like a victory at the time.
16th Jun '17 9:48:13 PM Nakuyabi
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* Jake Lloyd's Anakin seems too sweet and too nice with no flaws to be a believable character, much less the [[StartOfDarkness origin of Vader]]. However, there is a lot to this kid. The fact that he built a droid is significant. Why? Because he stole the parts. And, bear in mind, Watto's not that bad a slave owner. He treats them respectfully, lets Anakin go home early, and lets Shmi stay at home and not work in the shop. So the fact that Anakin would still want to steal from the guy who, for all intents and purposes, is the only father-figure he has, is telling of his lack of respect for authority, which will became vitally important in leading to his hush-hush relationship/marriage, which will become incredibly important as it drives a wedge between him and all his friends except Palpatine.

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* Jake Lloyd's Anakin seems too sweet and too nice with no flaws to be a believable character, much less the [[StartOfDarkness origin of Vader]]. However, there is a lot to this kid. The fact that he built His building a droid is significant. Why? Because he stole the parts. And, bear in mind, Watto's not that bad a slave owner. He treats them respectfully, lets Anakin go home early, and lets Shmi stay at home and not work in the shop. So the fact that Anakin would still want to steal from the guy who, for all intents and purposes, is the only father-figure he has, is telling of his lack of respect for authority, which will became vitally important in leading to his hush-hush relationship/marriage, which will become incredibly important as it drives a wedge between him and all his friends except Palpatine.



* Queen Amidala has a decoy so any attempts at assassination would fail. Sounds bad, but it's just something that comes with such a high political position. Then you remember that she was fourteen in the movie, so they would have to hire a similarly aged young girl to take any and all bullets intended for the Queen.
** Combine that with little touches like the blasters concealed in the Queen's throne, and the fact that she and her handmaidens are evidently expert shots with them. ''Just how often do people try to kill these girls?''

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* Queen Amidala has a decoy so any attempts at assassination would fail. Sounds bad, but it's just something that comes with such a high political position. Then you remember that she was supposed to be fourteen in the movie, so they would have to hire a similarly aged young girl to take any and all bullets intended for the Queen.
** Combine that with Presumably, a little touches like InUniverse DawsonCasting would help with that, but note also the blasters concealed in the arm of the Queen's throne, and the fact that how she and her handmaidens (and everyone else working for her) are evidently expert shots with them. ''Just how often do people try How common ''is'' political assassination on Naboo, that its government would have (and regularly need) such efficient and well-practiced counter-measures?
** We're also not told a lot about the exact nature of Naboo's dispute with the Trade Federation that led
to kill these girls?''this blockade and invasion in the first place, but one does have to wonder what kind of dispute could justify starting such a massive conflict. For all of its silly-sounding name and sleepy suburban appearance, Naboo clearly has more to it than meets the eye, and one suspects a militaristic regime lurks just beneath the surface of its pleasant-looking society.
** Padm&eacute in particular is clearly more hard-bitten and politically experienced at fourteen than anyone gives her credit for being. Also, though her monarchy isn't hereditary, where are her ''parents''? One would think even if they have no real political power from being related to the queen, they still ought to be there with her in her palace, but no, this fourteen-year-old is ruling ''alone''. I don't see any parents and family for her handmaidens there either. Maybe Naboo is a TeenageWasteland as well?
31st May '17 1:52:12 AM AthenaBlue
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* One of the biggest complaints about the Phantom Menace is that it is so goofy and kid-friendly; one of the biggest complaints about the Prequels is they don't feel like the Original Trilogy. But that is the point. The original trilogy was a Space Opera and followed that flow. The Prequels are a Greek Tragedy with Oedipus Rex being the main influence. Thus it doesn't follow the same ups and downs of the original because it is working from a different playbook. This also explains why the Phantom Menace is so silly: Greek Tragedies usually start with light-hearted comedy and goofy characters before evolving into dark and tragic stories. The Phantom Menace is merely the goofy 20 minute opening act of a Greek Tragedy.

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* One of the biggest complaints about the ''The Phantom Menace Menace'' is that it is so goofy and kid-friendly; one of the biggest complaints about the Prequels is they don't feel like the Original Trilogy. But that is the point. The original trilogy was a Space Opera and followed that flow. The Prequels are a Greek Tragedy Tragedy, with Oedipus Rex ''Theatre/OedipusRex'' being the main influence. Thus it doesn't follow the same ups and downs of the original because it is working from a different playbook. This also explains why the ''The Phantom Menace Menace'' is so silly: Greek Tragedies usually start with light-hearted comedy and goofy characters before evolving into dark and tragic stories. The ''The Phantom Menace Menace'' is merely the goofy 20 minute opening act of a Greek Tragedy.



* In the Expanded Universe, the Empire was notoriously human centric and xenophobic - which makes perfect sense hen you realise that the Empire's founder, Palpatine, grew up on a planet with two different sentient species that were constantly in conflict and distrusted each other.

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* In the Expanded Universe, the Empire was notoriously human centric and xenophobic - -- which makes perfect sense hen when you realise that the Empire's founder, Palpatine, grew up on a planet with two different sentient species that were constantly in conflict and distrusted each other.




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* The revelation that Anakin built Threepio was greeted with some derision as showing the Prequel Trilogy's over-reliance on AlreadyMetEveryone, but if you think about it, it's actually filling a PlotHole. See, while ''The Empire Strikes Back'' is an excellent movie, if you think about it and the rest of the Original Trilogy, there is ''absolutely '''no''' good reason'' why the Empire would have given the dismantled Threepio back to the heroes in their cell when they were prisoners in Cloud City. Threepio is a Rebel droid, after all, and the Empire could get valuable intelligence from him, such as the Rebels' codes that they use in communication. Yet Vader, the ranking Imperial present on Bespin at the time, and one who punishes failure and treason harshly, allows Threepio to be returned to the other main characters. However, Vader is shown to not be irredeemable in the end. Ultimately, the reveal that he built Threepio provides an explanation as to ''why'' Vader had the droid returned to the custody of his friends -- he was feeling ever so slightly in the mood to PetTheDog. In fact, there's a story from ''ComicBook/StarWarsTales'', which was a series devoted to telling WhatIf stories, called "ThankTheMaker" that posits this very idea.



* Realizing that ''every last character'' signed their proverbial death certificate in the ending. Anakin gets trained by a grieving, inexperienced Knight barely out of a Padawan braid, who is completely unable to handle the task of an unruly unconventional trainee who ''hasn't'' been confined to an enclave all his life. Obi-Wan, said grieving and inexperienced Knight, will be killed by Anakin later. Padme and Anakin have a PrecociousCrush that will end in a tragic mess of a marriage and their mutual destruction. Palpatine has been elected Chancellor, starting his rise to power that will eventually destroy almost every other character present, directly or indirectly. Worse, it all looked like a victory at the time.

to:

* Realizing that ''every last character'' signed their proverbial death certificate in the ending. Anakin gets trained by a grieving, inexperienced Knight barely out of a Padawan braid, who is completely unable to handle the task of an unruly unconventional trainee who ''hasn't'' been confined to an enclave all his life. Obi-Wan, said grieving and inexperienced Knight, will be killed by Anakin later. Padme Padmé and Anakin have a PrecociousCrush that will end in a tragic mess of a marriage and their mutual destruction. Palpatine has been elected Chancellor, starting his rise to power that will eventually destroy almost every other character present, directly or indirectly. Worse, it all looked like a victory at the time.
7th Apr '17 9:58:03 AM tm122
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Added DiffLines:

* Why would a planet elect a 14 year old Queen? The position is considered sacred, above politics and pure. Best suited for an innocent child.
6th Apr '17 2:47:39 PM AFP
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Added DiffLines:

** Even Palpatine sealed his fate there, given that it was Darth Vader who eventually killed him. So, there's that.
6th Apr '17 2:41:28 PM AFP
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Added DiffLines:

** Combine that with little touches like the blasters concealed in the Queen's throne, and the fact that she and her handmaidens are evidently expert shots with them. ''Just how often do people try to kill these girls?''
2nd Apr '17 2:58:28 PM Jhonny
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* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine. The only thing that could even theoretically have hurt Palpatine is the Jedi capturing Maul and [[DraggedBeforeASenateSubcommittee have him testify in a senate hearing]] as to who his master/employer is.

to:

* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine. The only thing that could even theoretically have hurt Palpatine is the Jedi capturing Maul and [[DraggedBeforeASenateSubcommittee [[HauledBeforeASenateSubcommittee have him testify in a senate hearing]] as to who his master/employer is.
2nd Apr '17 2:56:21 PM Jhonny
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* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine.

to:

* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) at first. Once the movies are seen in order, it is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start. The Phantom Meance was really a XanatosGambit by Palpatine. No matter what happens, he wins. If the Trade Federation successfully invades and takes control of Naboo, he has the necessary sympathy vote to become Supreme Chancellor. If the Queen makes it to Coruscant to plead her case before the Senate, the accusations get that much more dramatic, the Trade Federation's allies have to step in more bluntly to spin the damage, and Palpatine gets a larger sympathy vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and overcomes the droid army, Palpatine gets sympathy ''and'' badass vote. If the Queen returns to Naboo and gets captured by the Trade Federation, he still gets his sympathy vote. Nothing at all the heroes could have done could have changed the outcome to anything but a favorable one for Palpatine. The only thing that could even theoretically have hurt Palpatine is the Jedi capturing Maul and [[DraggedBeforeASenateSubcommittee have him testify in a senate hearing]] as to who his master/employer is.
2nd Apr '17 12:37:04 AM chaochan
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** YMMV on how the viewer feels about Watto, too. At the end of the day, he's still a slave owner actively exploiting a nine year old child as free labor. His slaves are fitted with chips that will explode if they ever try to escape. Shmi finds Anakin's involvement in the pod races terrifying and dangerous, but she has no power to object to Watto using him as a contestant for gambling purposes. The entire reason why Anakin's freed stems from Watto's willingness to literally gamble their lives away. Later in ''Attack of the Clones'', he refers to selling Shmi as "business." It's not hard to see why a slave like Anakin wouldn't see stealing the parts as morally problematic when he has no way of obtaining them otherwise.

to:

** YMMV on how the viewer feels about Watto, too. At the end of the day, he's still a slave owner actively exploiting a nine year old child as free labor. His slaves are fitted with chips that will explode if they ever try to escape. Shmi finds Anakin's involvement in the pod races terrifying and dangerous, but she has no power to object to Watto using him as a contestant for gambling purposes. The entire reason why Anakin's freed stems from Watto's willingness to literally gamble their lives away. Later in ''Attack of the Clones'', he refers to selling Shmi as "business." It's not hard to see why a Suggesting that slave like Anakin wouldn't see stealing owner was Anakin's first paternal model holds more disturbing implications than not and may actually lend some insight into the parts as morally problematic when he has no way of obtaining them otherwise. dynamic between Palpatine and Vader.
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