History Fridge / TheHobbit

9th Nov '17 3:16:57 PM immortalfrieza
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** On that note, the treasure of Erebor is MASSIVE. Even if Bilbo hired a bunch of caravans it would have been a lot of trouble and taken years to actually get his 1/14th back to the Shire, and that's assuming the trip went smoothly and one or more of the caravans didn't just steal it or the caravans weren't besieged by orcs and bandits at various points. Bilbo really wants to go home too, so simply settling somewhere near Erebor and living like a king is out. On the other hand, the troll horde isn't all that far from the Shire and has plenty of treasures in it for Bilbo to live comfortably from then on, so it's far simpler to just decline his reward and take from that and the adventure is still more than worth it.
3rd Jul '17 1:45:25 AM NhazUl
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* Tolkien described Mirkwood elves as more rustic and closer to nature, something Thranduil's father wanted to return to. A point is made out of them being less disciplined and not as well armed as the Noldor at the battle of the Last Alliance in which Thranduil barey escaped with his life after his father got himself and his entire host killed. Yet in the Hobbit movies they show excellent military discipline and sport armor that would have fit even the Feanorian Noldor who were the most "civilized" elves when it comes to crafting and forging. Thranduil learned his lesson in military armament and tactics... that he's still being unwise by playing isolationist is another matter.
25th Jun '17 2:14:52 AM akanesarumara
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** Also a bit of a cross with FridgeBrilliance: what other hobbit to we know of who viciously attacked a critter and killed it? Sam attacking Shelob might come to mind, the huge difference is is ''why'': Shelob almost killed Frodo at that point, which made Sam fly into a rage huge enough that the orcs vitnessing the aftermath were convinced that there was a mighty Elven warrior on the loose in Cirith Ungol.

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** Also a bit of a cross with FridgeBrilliance: what other hobbit to we know of who viciously attacked a critter and killed it? it despite formerly not being aggressive at all? Sam attacking Shelob might come to mind, the huge difference is is ''why'': Shelob almost killed Frodo at that point, which made Sam fly into a rage huge enough that the orcs vitnessing the aftermath were convinced that there was a mighty Elven warrior on the loose in Cirith Ungol.
25th Jun '17 2:13:56 AM akanesarumara
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** Also a bit of a cross with FridgeBrilliance: what other hobbit to we know of who viciously attacked a critter and killed it? Sam attacking Shelob might come to mind, the huge difference is is ''why'': Shelob almost killed Frodo at that point, which made Sam fly into a rage huge enough that the orcs vitnessing the aftermath were convinced that there was a mighty Elven warrior on the loose in Cirith Ungol.
7th Jun '17 2:56:20 PM ZombieMonster
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** Both the construction of Goblin-town (why the town is constructed the way it and how it holds together/falls apart just as needed by the plot) and the lengthy fight and chase scene between the dwarves and goblins seem rather...[[TallTale improbable]]. The author (Bilbo) who is purportedly retelling the adventure is also notably absent, since he's dealing with Gollum down below. So who gave Bilbo the blow-by-blow account of the battle for him to describe later? Considering the colorful descriptions of dragons and orc raids so enthusiastically provided by Bofur, Fíli, and Kíli, as well as Gandalf's comment about good stories needing "embellishment," is it any wonder that the account of Goblin-town is a bit larger than life?

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** Both the construction of Goblin-town (why the town is constructed the way it is and how it holds together/falls apart just as needed by the plot) and the lengthy fight and chase scene between the dwarves and goblins seem rather...[[TallTale improbable]]. The author (Bilbo) who is purportedly retelling the adventure is also notably absent, since he's dealing with Gollum down below. So who gave Bilbo the blow-by-blow account of the battle for him to describe later? Considering the colorful descriptions of dragons and orc raids so enthusiastically provided by Bofur, Fíli, and Kíli, as well as Gandalf's comment about good stories needing "embellishment," is it any wonder that the account of Goblin-town is a bit larger than life?
7th Jun '17 2:55:01 PM ZombieMonster
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** Interestingly, the novel mentions that goblins can tunnel as build as well as all but the most skilled dwarves, but only when they have a mind to, and most of the time they just use slave-labor or other means of saving time and effort. That puts a very clear light on the distinctions between the ramshackle "good-enough" quality of Goblin-Town and the loving artistry and architecture of Erebor, not as a question of skill but of attitude.

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** Interestingly, the novel mentions that goblins can tunnel as and build as well as all but the most skilled dwarves, but only when they have a mind to, and most of the time they just use slave-labor or other means of saving time and effort. That puts a very clear light on the distinctions between the ramshackle "good-enough" quality of Goblin-Town and the loving artistry and architecture of Erebor, not as a question of skill but of attitude.
7th Jun '17 2:51:05 PM ZombieMonster
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** She's using her Phial, that will have been given to Sam in ''LOTR'', to combat the Necromancer. It holds the a bit of light of the "North Star" which is a Simaril which was made from the Two Trees. Brilliant that it is the only thing effective against the Necromancer. Brilliant in that she doesn't have to use her Elvin Ring, still keeping it hidden from Sauron. And [[LiteralMetaphor Brilliant literally.]]

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** She's using her Phial, that will have been given to Sam in ''LOTR'', to combat the Necromancer. It holds the a bit of light of the "North Star" Star", which is a Simaril which was made from the Two Trees. Brilliant that it is the only thing effective against the Necromancer. Brilliant in that she doesn't have to use her Elvin Ring, Ring of Power, still keeping it hidden from Sauron. And [[LiteralMetaphor Brilliant brilliant literally.]]
1st Jun '17 1:19:14 PM Discar
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* Bifur's axe-in-the-head at first appears as nothing more than a quirky way of distinguishing the character. But in the novel, Bifur barely has any lines at all. So Bifur's main character trait is more than just that - it's a clever and probably unintentional bit of brilliance on Peter Jackson's part since Bifur is just as mute in the film as he was in the book.
** WordOfGod suggests it was ''entirely'' intentional.

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* Bifur's axe-in-the-head at first appears as nothing more than a quirky way of distinguishing the character. But in the novel, Bifur barely has any lines at all. So Bifur's main character trait is more than just that - it's a clever and probably unintentional bit of brilliance on Peter Jackson's part since Bifur is just as mute in the film as he was in the book.
**
book. WordOfGod suggests it was ''entirely'' intentional.



* As much a TearJerker as it is, Kíli/Tauriel doesn't cheapen the relationship Legolas and Gimli has in the LotR trilogy - simply because it doesn't work out. If anything, it serves as a precedent for Legolas/Gimli - that yes, elves and dwarves can fall in love/have a lifelong bond.
** It also potentially adds some layers to the animosity between Gimli and Legolas in the beginning: Gimli presumably knows from his father about Thranduil's actions in the past. Meanwhile, Tauriel, who was Legolas's comrade and who he is implied to have had some feelings for, fell in love with a dwarf and may even have died of a broken heart after Kíli's death.
* Dwarves stereotypically favor the axe as a weapon, so it at first seems odd that the Iron Hill dwarves are primarily pikemen. But consider the native environment of dwarves: hills and mountains. Both of these are terrain with confined areas that are ideal for frontal assaults with phalanxes since the flanks would be covered by the terrain. It is not unlike ancient Greek military tactics.

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* As much a TearJerker as it is, Kíli/Tauriel doesn't cheapen the relationship Legolas and Gimli has in the LotR trilogy - simply because it doesn't work out. If anything, it serves as a precedent for Legolas/Gimli - that yes, elves and dwarves can fall in love/have a lifelong bond.
**
bond. It also potentially adds some layers to the animosity between Gimli and Legolas in the beginning: Gimli presumably knows from his father about Thranduil's actions in the past. Meanwhile, Tauriel, who was Legolas's comrade and who he is implied to have had some feelings for, fell in love with a dwarf and may even have died of a broken heart after Kíli's death.
* Army weapon choices:
**
Dwarves stereotypically favor the axe as a weapon, so it at first seems odd that the Iron Hill dwarves are primarily pikemen. But consider the native environment of dwarves: hills and mountains. Both of these are terrain with confined areas that are ideal for frontal assaults with phalanxes since the flanks would be covered by the terrain. It is not unlike ancient Greek military tactics.



* In ''Film/TheHobbitAnUnexpectedJourney'' Thranduil's army appearance in the Prologue seems forced: did he just march his entire army to help, only to turn around on the mere sight of the Dragon? How did he learn of the impending Dragon attack to be able to assemble and march his host so swiftly? And if he did not intend to help at all, why bring the army in the first place? Then, ''Film/TheHobbitTheBattleOfTheFiveArmies'' puts it into perspective: he always intended to reclaim what he deemed rightfully his from the Dwarves by force, he just choose the timing poorly and had the misfortune to arrive just behind the rampaging Dragon. Helping the refugees was never in question, but since the treasures were lost, there was no point in attacking them either.

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* Elven army in prologue:
**
In ''Film/TheHobbitAnUnexpectedJourney'' Thranduil's army appearance in the Prologue seems forced: did he just march his entire army to help, only to turn around on the mere sight of the Dragon? How did he learn of the impending Dragon attack to be able to assemble and march his host so swiftly? And if he did not intend to help at all, why bring the army in the first place? Then, ''Film/TheHobbitTheBattleOfTheFiveArmies'' puts it into perspective: he always intended to reclaim what he deemed rightfully his from the Dwarves by force, he just choose the timing poorly and had the misfortune to arrive just behind the rampaging Dragon. Helping the refugees was never in question, but since the treasures were lost, there was no point in attacking them either.
1st Jun '17 11:50:22 AM Sharlee
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** Alternately, the elven army was there as a warning to ''Smaug'' not to push his luck too far, by attacking the elves next. Yes, their army just lined up and glared at the dragon rather than challenging him - so long as he's not turning their own forest into charcoal, they won't try to stop him from assaulting the neighbors - but its presence probably helped remind the dragon that the ''elves'' may have had a few Black Arrows in their stockpiles too, and are generally better shots than men or dwarves.
1st Jun '17 11:44:05 AM Sharlee
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** Also, even if it's elves and men they're expecting to stand off at Erebor, Thorin's message to Dain probably mentioned how orcs on warg-back had been hounding his own party for much of their journey, and to keep an eye out for Azog's scouts on the way to Lonely Mountain. Whether warg-mounted or horse-mounted, cavalry units are a lot more vulnerable to pikes than axes.
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