History Fridge / StarTrekDeepSpaceNine

4th Aug '17 11:10:28 AM SomberCaelifera
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* When Odo meets another one of the 100 he has already infected his people with the disease, he melds with this new changeling who then goes on his merry way and is never heard from again...
** That's because it died in that very same episode.
** Well, it never existed. The timeline was collapsed. That's... different from dying, right?
** The changeling referenced in the first line is Laas from Season 7. The above two lines are referring to two different Season 5 episodes. Laas and the disease are a loose end on the show itself, though the Literature/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineRelaunch establishes that Laas made his way into the Great Link and got cured.
26th Jul '17 2:55:32 PM SomberCaelifera
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* Has anyone given thought to Dax's average life? In "you are cordially invited", Sisko States that the symbiote is 356. That was in early season 6, meaning Dax was AT MOST 357 when Jadzia died. This means that it went through 8 lifetimes in that time, making the life expectancy of a Dax host less than 45 years.

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* Has anyone given thought to Dax's average life? In "you are cordially invited", "You Are Cordially Invited", Sisko States states that the symbiote is 356. That was in early season 6, meaning Dax was AT MOST 357 when Jadzia died. This means that it went through 8 lifetimes in that time, making the life expectancy of a Dax host less than 45 years.
26th Jul '17 2:53:13 PM SomberCaelifera
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* The entire series, from beginning to end, is about the conflict between Sisko and Dukat. First, both characters make their debut in the first episode, where Dukat was the former commander of the station and Sisko is the incoming commander. Both of them hold similar ranks throughout the series: Sisko starts out as a commander who is promoted to captain, while Dukat (even when he is running Cardassia), retains the rank of Gul (stated in the TNG episode "The Wounded" to be equivalent to Captain) through the entire series (with a brief stint as Legate). Both Dukat and Sisko are family men who are devoted to their children, and we see Jake and (to a lesser extent) Ziyal on screen. Now, the differences that divide the two: Sisko serves the Federation, a free, peaceful society while Dukat serves the oppressive, warlike Cardassian regime. Whereas Sisko sees his task as overseeing the reconstruction of Bajor in the hope that they will take their place as an equal member of the Federation, Dukat, in "Indiscretion" and "Waltz", deluded himself into thinking that he would improve the lot of the Bajorans, but refused to respect them as equals and became their greatest oppressor. It should be noted that, of the ten million people who died in the fifty-year Occupation (cf. "Cardassians"), half of them did so during the ten years Dukat was in charge (cf. "Waltz"). The opposition becomes even more clear when Dukat leads Cardassia into the Dominion, which has been noted on this page, and confirmed by WordOfGod, to be the anti-Federation. Additionally, Sisko becomes the Emissary of Bajor, a role he endures reluctantly, at least until "Accession" when the Prophets teach him a lesson, showing how even a well-meaning alternative could prove disastrous to Bajor. Gul Dukat, on the other hand, evinces messianic delusions throughout the series, particularly in his conversations with Kira in "Indiscretion" and with Sisko in "Waltz". After the latter episode, Dukat joins the Pah Wraths, eventually becoming ''their'' Emissary to reinforce his position as Sisko's equal and opposite counterpart. In a conversation in "Ties of Blood and Water", Dukat indicates that, despite being the ruler of Cardassia, he has retained the title Gul rather than a pretentious title such as Emissary. Here, we see that he is the inverse of Sisko: whereas Dukat has a modest title, he pursues absolute power, sees himself in messianic terms, and craves adoration; Sisko, meanwhile, despite his exalted title, has the comparatively modest ambition of the admiralty, sees himself only as a very good Starfleet officer, and is uncomfortable with the reverence and adoration the Bajorans give him. Another example of their differences is found in the Season 4 episode "To the Death", when Weyoun offers Sisko a chance to be absolute ruler of the Federation, answerable to no one. Sisko, of course, declines, but this is a foreshadowing of the offer that Dukat will accept, to become the absolute ruler of Cardassia under the Dominion. The episode "Covenant" brings the point home. In this episode, Dukat has taken over Empok Nor, a Cardassian space station in Dominion space which is almost the twin of Deep Space Nine (Formerly Terok Nor). Here, parodying Sisko's role as commander of DS9 and Emissary, he has set himself up as the Emissary of the Cult of the Pagh Wraiths, surrounded by devoted Bajorans, including one of Kira's former teachers. As leader of the cult, he has even arrogated to himself the power to determine whether couples are allowed to have sex and have children, in a parody of Sisko's duty as Emissary (seen in "Accession" and "Call to Arms"), which includes blessing marriages and performing wedding ceremonies. The end of the episode, in which Dukat is prepared to sacrifice the cultists to save himself, prefigures and inverts the end of the series, in which Sisko sacrifices himself to save Bajor from the Pah Wraiths.

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* The entire series, from beginning to end, is about the conflict between Sisko and Dukat. First, both characters make their debut in the first episode, where Dukat was the former commander of the station and Sisko is the incoming commander. Both of them hold similar ranks throughout the series: Sisko starts out as a commander who is promoted to captain, while Dukat (even when he is running Cardassia), retains the rank of Gul (stated in the TNG episode "The Wounded" to be equivalent to Captain) through the entire series (with a brief stint as Legate). Both Dukat and Sisko are family men who are devoted to their children, and we see Jake and (to a lesser extent) Ziyal on screen. Now, the differences that divide the two: Sisko serves the Federation, a free, peaceful society while Dukat serves the oppressive, warlike Cardassian regime. Whereas Sisko sees his task as overseeing the reconstruction of Bajor in the hope that they will take their place as an equal member of the Federation, Dukat, in "Indiscretion" and "Waltz", deluded himself into thinking that he would improve the lot of the Bajorans, but refused to respect them as equals and became their greatest oppressor. It should be noted that, of the ten million people who died in the fifty-year Occupation (cf. "Cardassians"), half of them did so during the ten years Dukat was in charge (cf. "Waltz"). The opposition becomes even more clear when Dukat leads Cardassia into the Dominion, which has been noted on this page, and confirmed by WordOfGod, to be the anti-Federation. Additionally, Sisko becomes the Emissary of Bajor, a role he endures reluctantly, at least until "Accession" when the Prophets teach him a lesson, showing how even a well-meaning alternative could prove disastrous to Bajor. Gul Dukat, on the other hand, evinces messianic delusions throughout the series, particularly in his conversations with Kira in "Indiscretion" and with Sisko in "Waltz". After the latter episode, Dukat joins the Pah Wraths, eventually becoming ''their'' Emissary to reinforce his position as Sisko's equal and opposite counterpart. In a conversation in "Ties of Blood and Water", Dukat indicates that, despite being the ruler of Cardassia, he has retained the title Gul rather than a pretentious title such as Emissary. Here, we see that he is the inverse of Sisko: whereas Dukat has a modest title, he pursues absolute power, sees himself in messianic terms, and craves adoration; Sisko, meanwhile, despite his exalted title, has the comparatively modest ambition of the admiralty, sees himself only as a very good Starfleet officer, and is uncomfortable with the reverence and adoration the Bajorans give him. Another example of their differences is found in the Season 4 episode "To the Death", when Weyoun offers Sisko a chance to be absolute ruler of the Federation, answerable to no one. Sisko, of course, declines, but this is a foreshadowing of the offer that Dukat will accept, to become the absolute ruler of Cardassia under the Dominion. The episode "Covenant" brings the point home. In this episode, Dukat has taken over Empok Nor, a Cardassian space station in Dominion space which is almost the twin of Deep Space Nine (Formerly Terok Nor). Here, parodying Sisko's role as commander of DS9 [[=DS9=]] and Emissary, he has set himself up as the Emissary of the Cult of the Pagh Wraiths, surrounded by devoted Bajorans, including one of Kira's former teachers. As leader of the cult, he has even arrogated to himself the power to determine whether couples are allowed to have sex and have children, in a parody of Sisko's duty as Emissary (seen in "Accession" and "Call to Arms"), which includes blessing marriages and performing wedding ceremonies. The end of the episode, in which Dukat is prepared to sacrifice the cultists to save himself, prefigures and inverts the end of the series, in which Sisko sacrifices himself to save Bajor from the Pah Wraiths.



* In ''Who Mourns For Morn'' in season 6, Quark's ability to just shatter the golden bricks in his bare hands seems pretty inexplicable -- until one remembers that, when they were introduced in ''TNG's'' ''The Last Outpost'', the Ferengi were characterized as {{Pint Sized Powerhouse}}s, with Ferengi warriors being capable of taking on Worf and ''winning''. Furthermore, in another ''DS9'' episode, one Ferengi singlehandedly throws Sisko several meters in a fit of pique. So, why are they characterized as cowards? Because of DeliberateValuesDissonance! As a ProudMerchantRace, who also happen to know that most beings of comparable strength tend to have the advantage in size and reach, the vast majority of Ferengi don't bother to train in combat because they have no interest in it, and their culture regards fighting as an act of failure. They're strong, they just don't have any reason to show it off or the training to put it to effective use.

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* In ''Who Mourns For Morn'' in season 6, Quark's ability to just shatter the golden bricks in his bare hands seems pretty inexplicable -- until one remembers that, when they were introduced in ''TNG's'' ''The Last Outpost'', the Ferengi were characterized as {{Pint Sized Powerhouse}}s, with Ferengi warriors being capable of taking on Worf and ''winning''. Furthermore, in another ''DS9'' ''[[=DS9=]]'' episode, one Ferengi singlehandedly throws Sisko several meters in a fit of pique. So, why are they characterized as cowards? Because of DeliberateValuesDissonance! As a ProudMerchantRace, who also happen to know that most beings of comparable strength tend to have the advantage in size and reach, the vast majority of Ferengi don't bother to train in combat because they have no interest in it, and their culture regards fighting as an act of failure. They're strong, they just don't have any reason to show it off or the training to put it to effective use.



** It's worse. The Dominion is infamous for genetic manipulation, giving their Jem'hadar cloaking abilities, creating Vorta with telekinetic powers, and altering their own people on molecular levels (Odo being turned solid). So why did they keep Julian? He's an [[Bio-Augmentation augment]]. He's significantly smarter and has better hand-eye coordination than most humans, and as the show repeatedly gets across, compared to other augments from centuries ago, he's '''underpowered'''. Of course the Founders would recognize and try to capitalize on that.

to:

** It's worse. The Dominion is infamous for genetic manipulation, giving their Jem'hadar cloaking abilities, creating Vorta with telekinetic powers, and altering their own people on molecular levels (Odo being turned solid). So why did they keep Julian? He's an [[Bio-Augmentation [[{{Designer Babies}} augment]]. He's significantly smarter and has better hand-eye coordination than most humans, and as the show repeatedly gets across, compared to other augments from centuries ago, he's '''underpowered'''. Of course the Founders would recognize and try to capitalize on that.
1st Jun '17 11:09:15 PM korben600
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* Why did the Founders keep Martok and Bashir alive after replacing them? Wouldn't it make more sense to kill them so that they can't escape and expose the Changelings who replaced them? I suppose I could see why they'd keep Martok around (if his replacement is exposed, he makes a valuable prisoner in case of an exchange), but Bashir isn't important enough to the Federation even for that, and his replacement's assignment was to blow up the solar system he was in.
** Not only prisoner exchange but information as well.
** It's worse. The Dominion is infamous for genetic manipulation, giving their Jem'hadar cloaking abilities, creating Vorta with telekinetic powers, and altering their own people on molecular levels (Odo being turned solid). So why did they keep Julian? He's an [[Bio-Augmentation augment]]. He's significantly smarter and has better hand-eye coordination than most humans, and as the show repeatedly gets across, compared to other augments from centuries ago, he's '''underpowered'''. Of course the Founders would recognize and try to capitalize on that.
** Also, if the Federation ever created blood tests that could compare genetic material, they would need supplies of blood from the original to cover it up.



* "Valiant" has the Red Squad cadets on a training cruise close to the Cardassian border with only a few commisioned officers who are all conveniently killed in the opening of the Dominion War. Why would Starfleet have a ship full of cadets be near a potential warzone but also have the ship be a Defiant-class who is among the very few dedicated warships in the Starfleet armada and of vital importance for the coming war effort instead of a training vessel.

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* "Valiant" has the Red Squad cadets on a training cruise close to the Cardassian border with only a few commisioned commissioned officers who are all conveniently killed in the opening of the Dominion War. Why would Starfleet have a ship full of cadets be near a potential warzone but also have the ship be a Defiant-class who is among the very few dedicated warships in the Starfleet armada and of vital importance for the coming war effort instead of a training vessel.



* Has anyone thought for a second what the life expectancy is for a being that is 300-400 years old and has had nine hosts? Because it isn't very high.
* Why did the Founders keep Martok and Bashir alive after replacing them? Wouldn't it make more sense to kill them so that they can't escape and expose the Changelings who replaced them? I suppose I could see why they'd keep Martok around (if his replacement is exposed, he makes a valuable prisoner in case of an exchange), but Bashir isn't important enough to the Federation even for that, and his replacement's assignment was to blow up the solar system he was in.
** Not only prisoner exchange but information as well.

to:

* Has anyone thought for a second what the life expectancy is for a being that is 300-400 years old and has had nine hosts? Because it isn't very high.
* Why did the Founders keep Martok and Bashir alive after replacing them? Wouldn't it make more sense to kill them so that they can't escape and expose the Changelings who replaced them? I suppose I could see why they'd keep Martok around (if his replacement is exposed, he makes a valuable prisoner in case of an exchange), but Bashir isn't important enough to the Federation even for that, and his replacement's assignment was to blow up the solar system he was in.
** Not only prisoner exchange but information as well.
high.
31st May '17 3:03:41 AM WanderingBrowser
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to:

* In ''Who Mourns For Morn'' in season 6, Quark's ability to just shatter the golden bricks in his bare hands seems pretty inexplicable -- until one remembers that, when they were introduced in ''TNG's'' ''The Last Outpost'', the Ferengi were characterized as {{Pint Sized Powerhouse}}s, with Ferengi warriors being capable of taking on Worf and ''winning''. Furthermore, in another ''DS9'' episode, one Ferengi singlehandedly throws Sisko several meters in a fit of pique. So, why are they characterized as cowards? Because of DeliberateValuesDissonance! As a ProudMerchantRace, who also happen to know that most beings of comparable strength tend to have the advantage in size and reach, the vast majority of Ferengi don't bother to train in combat because they have no interest in it, and their culture regards fighting as an act of failure. They're strong, they just don't have any reason to show it off or the training to put it to effective use.
** Furthermore, this explains how Quark manages to survive his off-screen sex with Grilka in ''Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places'' and, it's implied, actually managed to pleasure her in the bargain -- her certainly doesn't ''act'' like the DestructoNookie was unsatisfying, after all. Quark's actually strong enough to make a very spirited attempt at keeping up with a Klingon female in the throes of passion; it's just not something that comes up normally since he's a NonActionGuy.
31st May '17 2:09:51 AM BobTheBard
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* In ''The Wire'', Bashir and Garak discuss a genre of Cardassian literature known as the Repetitive Epic. Your characters live selfless lives, in service to the state, grow old, and die, "and then [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration the next generation]] comes along and does it all over again!" Is Doctor Bashir describing ''The Never Ending Sacrifice'', or ''Franchise/StarTrek''? Each installment has [[HighConcept largely the same premise]], a group of bold intellectual explorers trekking across the unknown, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and each new installment changes the formula slightly by switching the character archetypes and roles around, allowing the producers to effectively pitch the exact same process, but getting a different result with each cycle thanks to the progressive changes. Out of all of the series and the reboot films, DS9 is the one that strays the farthest off the path, and only then because instead of exploring the unknown, our heroes are parked at an interstellar crossroads and dealing with the ever-shifting politics of the setting.

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* In ''The Wire'', Bashir and Garak discuss a genre of Cardassian literature known as the Repetitive Epic. Your characters live selfless lives, in service to the state, grow old, and die, "and then [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration the next generation]] comes along and does it all over again!" Is Doctor Bashir describing ''The Never Ending Sacrifice'', or ''Franchise/StarTrek''? Each installment has [[HighConcept largely the same premise]], a group of bold intellectual explorers trekking across the unknown, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and each new installment changes the formula slightly by switching the character archetypes and roles around, allowing the producers to effectively pitch the exact same process, but getting a different result with each cycle thanks to the progressive changes. Out of all of the series and the reboot films, DS9 [=DS9=] is the one that strays the farthest off the path, and only then because instead of exploring the unknown, our heroes are parked at an interstellar crossroads and dealing with the ever-shifting politics of the setting. setting.
** The whole discussion becomes quite funny when you realize the Repetitive Epic is a natural progression of [[ContinuityReboot continuity reboots]] and [[SpinOff spinoffs]], {{Sequelitis}} and CapcomSequelStagnation, [[SerialNumbersFiledOff filed-off serial numbers]] and [[{{Expy}} expies]], and [[FollowTheLeader following the leader]], which are all very well-known concepts in ''human'' entertainment and all characterized by repetition. There are many franchises in all forms and formats of entertainment that, when taken as a group, could be considered repetitive epics - ''Franchise/StarTrek'' is just one of many.
28th May '17 4:28:21 PM lorgskyegon
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* Why did the Founders keep Martok and Bashir alive after replacing them? Wouldn't it make more sense to kill them so that they can't escape and expose the Changelings who replaced them? I suppose I could see why they'd keep Martok around (if his replacement is exposed, he makes a valuable prisoner in case of an exchange), but Bashir isn't important enough to the Federation even for that, and his replacement's assignment was to blow up the solar system he was in.

to:

* Why did the Founders keep Martok and Bashir alive after replacing them? Wouldn't it make more sense to kill them so that they can't escape and expose the Changelings who replaced them? I suppose I could see why they'd keep Martok around (if his replacement is exposed, he makes a valuable prisoner in case of an exchange), but Bashir isn't important enough to the Federation even for that, and his replacement's assignment was to blow up the solar system he was in.in.
** Not only prisoner exchange but information as well.
28th May '17 4:24:09 PM lorgskyegon
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Added DiffLines:

** Julian was talking to an Andorian when he was pointed out to her at a party. She may have assumed it was just a strange name for an Andorian. And she missed his speech because she was preparing for hers. She flat out says it in the episode.
27th May '17 8:47:09 PM lorgskyegon
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Added DiffLines:

** I always took it as more of Sisko not playing the games Q likes to play and therefore being no fun.
23rd May '17 7:17:49 PM MitchellTF
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Added DiffLines:

** Another possibility? The part that draws the blood, and the part that shows he blood isn't steamless. He drew Sisko's blood into that part...at which point it shot off a sample of Changeling blood, which hey had on file from a variey of ways, either one of hose Changelings who they saw and fled...or Odo.
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