History Fridge / RomeoAndJuliet

8th Mar '15 6:08:02 AM FuzzyBoots
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* This troper used to dislike ''RomeoAndJuliet''. No, this troper practically despised it. He was convinced that it glorified teenage angst and falling in love at the drop of a pin and then acting like an idiot afterwards. Compared to shows like ''Theatre/TheTamingOfTheShrew'' and ''AsYouLikeIt'', the romance seemed more about hormones than anything deeper. Then, he read it again in college. And realized that, while Romeo still comes off as a lovestruck teen, Juliet comes off much better. She's the one who makes plans and follows through with them. She's the one who sets up the scheme at the end for them to be together. Only at the end, after both the love of her life and the arranged husband that she agreed to "look to like if looking liking lead" are dead does she succumb to despair and turn to the dagger. Of course, this troper also suspects that the high school version may have had all the good bits pulled out of it for space and {{bowdlerization}}. -- FuzzyBoots

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* This troper I used to dislike ''RomeoAndJuliet''. No, this troper I practically despised it. He I was convinced that it glorified teenage angst and falling in love at the drop of a pin and then acting like an idiot afterwards. Compared to shows like ''Theatre/TheTamingOfTheShrew'' and ''AsYouLikeIt'', the romance seemed more about hormones than anything deeper. Then, he I read it again in college. And I realized that, while Romeo still comes off as a lovestruck teen, Juliet comes off much better. She's the one who makes plans and follows through with them. She's the one who sets up the scheme at the end for them to be together. Only at the end, after both the love of her life and the arranged husband that she agreed to "look to like if looking liking lead" are dead does she succumb to despair and turn to the dagger. Of course, this troper I also suspects suspect that the high school version may have had all the good bits pulled out of it for space and {{bowdlerization}}. -- FuzzyBootsTropers/FuzzyBoots
20th Aug '14 12:07:26 AM vifetoile
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*** Arranging a marriage is one thing. It's another thing to seek to have a marriage enacted and made official -- and consummated -- when a girl was still prepubescent. And there's something skeevy about the way that Paris tells Juliet to smile, because her smiles belong to him, now.
24th May '14 10:55:34 PM vifetoile
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*** Asimov is wrong. Why would Shakespeare -- who was a master of his craft, of both characterization and ConservationOfDetail -- have our first impression of Lords Montague and Capulet be of two old men sporting for a fight, egging on their servants instead of calling them off, and dueling in the street, only for his intention to be "they're harmless old geezers, their blood has cooled off, looking for a reason to end the feud"? This is an EstablishingCharacterMoment. The Prince, a ReasonableAuthorityFigure if ever Shakespeare wrote one, doesn't say that they must discipline their servants, he says that ''they'' will be put to death if ''they'' continue the feud. The Feud is alive and well, and the pressures against Romeo and Juliet's relationship are very real. - vifetoile
10th May '14 8:28:56 AM Pachylad
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-> Nah man, their tragic flaw is obsession. It's not a whole "pure love" thing, it's pure obsession, which we can see right away as Romeo was head over heels before he met Juliet, in which, he was head over heels all over again. Juliet plays right into this as well. Instead of being calm or rational through anything, they both be cray cray. Killing oneself over a lover's death that you met like, three nights before, is not anything romantic or powerful. Straight up obsession, the both of them.

->The gang problem with their family is still very much so a problem, but like you mentioned with the whole "opposites", its because everybody is just so extreme, like Romeo and Juliet's obsession with one another.

->This is a problem of not meeting half way on anything. Romeo and Juliet eventually did meet half way, as they're from opposing families, but in the end, they still couldn't stop themselves from being Us against Them, only this time it was Romeo and Juliet vs. the world. - '''[=KrissLucia=]'''

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-> --> Nah man, their tragic flaw is obsession. It's not a whole "pure love" thing, it's pure obsession, which we can see right away as Romeo was head over heels before he met Juliet, in which, he was head over heels all over again. Juliet plays right into this as well. Instead of being calm or rational through anything, they both be cray cray. Killing oneself over a lover's death that you met like, three nights before, is not anything romantic or powerful. Straight up obsession, the both of them.

->The -->The gang problem with their family is still very much so a problem, but like you mentioned with the whole "opposites", its because everybody is just so extreme, like Romeo and Juliet's obsession with one another.

->This -->This is a problem of not meeting half way on anything. Romeo and Juliet eventually did meet half way, as they're from opposing families, but in the end, they still couldn't stop themselves from being Us against Them, only this time it was Romeo and Juliet vs. the world. - '''[=KrissLucia=]'''
10th May '14 8:25:15 AM Pachylad
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->This is a problem of not meeting half way on anything. Romeo and Juliet eventually did meet half way, as they're from opposing families, but in the end, they still couldn't stop themselves from being Us against Them, only this time it was Romeo and Juliet vs. the world. - '''KrissLucia'''

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->This is a problem of not meeting half way on anything. Romeo and Juliet eventually did meet half way, as they're from opposing families, but in the end, they still couldn't stop themselves from being Us against Them, only this time it was Romeo and Juliet vs. the world. - '''KrissLucia'''
'''[=KrissLucia=]'''
10th May '14 8:24:35 AM Pachylad
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** One comment from [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-qgVmsV3hM this Thug Notes video]] nailed it for me, singling out what you mentioned as zealotry in the play:

-> Nah man, their tragic flaw is obsession. It's not a whole "pure love" thing, it's pure obsession, which we can see right away as Romeo was head over heels before he met Juliet, in which, he was head over heels all over again. Juliet plays right into this as well. Instead of being calm or rational through anything, they both be cray cray. Killing oneself over a lover's death that you met like, three nights before, is not anything romantic or powerful. Straight up obsession, the both of them.

->The gang problem with their family is still very much so a problem, but like you mentioned with the whole "opposites", its because everybody is just so extreme, like Romeo and Juliet's obsession with one another.

->This is a problem of not meeting half way on anything. Romeo and Juliet eventually did meet half way, as they're from opposing families, but in the end, they still couldn't stop themselves from being Us against Them, only this time it was Romeo and Juliet vs. the world. - '''KrissLucia'''
7th Dec '13 11:48:26 PM lalalei2001
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* Romeo was doomed either way because Rosaline is a Capulet too.
22nd Sep '13 12:14:09 AM Trippetta
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*** It's doubtful that Elizabethan audiences would have seen either Romeo or Paris as borderline pedophiles, seeing as girls could and commonly did marry at 12 during this period.

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*** **** It's doubtful that Elizabethan audiences would have seen either Romeo or Paris as borderline pedophiles, seeing as girls could and commonly did marry at 12 during this period.
22nd Sep '13 12:11:55 AM Trippetta
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*** It's doubtful that Elizabethan audiences would have seen either Romeo or Paris as borderline pedophiles, seeing as girls could and commonly did marry at 12 during this period.


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* Romeo and Juliet are continually referred to as teenagers on this page, but it should be remembered that the concept of "teenager" or someone in an intermediate age between childhood and adulthood is a rather modern one. In the past there was no long transitional period, and both Romeo and Juliet would have been seen as adults, albeit young ones.
21st Sep '13 4:38:16 PM Prfnoff
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** It's amazing how easily people overlook the fact that RomeoAndJuliet is about war and violence as much as it is about love; or more accurately, it's about the way they influence and interact with each other. I didn't realize this until I watched the Zeffirelli production for the first time in college, at the tail end of my History and Political Science majors. I mean, this is not the kid-friendly lovey dovey show people seem to think it is- for god's sake, the opening scene is two of the Capulets talking about raping and/or decapitating the women of their enemy's house. And the famous lines- ''what's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot, nor any other part belonging to a man''- are actually a profound moment of political awakening for Juliet, the moment she realizes that there's a vast gulf between the labels attached to a person and their fundamental humanity. Vonnegut, consummate cynic though he was, mentions RomeoAndJuliet in the prologue to BreakfastOfChampions as an example of something sacred, and this troper suspects there's a reason he chose this play, out of all of Shakespeare's: That man understood war. -- LaplacesKyton

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** It's amazing how easily people overlook the fact that RomeoAndJuliet is about war and violence as much as it is about love; or more accurately, it's about the way they influence and interact with each other. I didn't realize this until I watched the Zeffirelli production for the first time in college, at the tail end of my History and Political Science majors. I mean, this is not the kid-friendly lovey dovey show people seem to think it is- for god's sake, the opening scene is two of the Capulets talking about raping and/or decapitating the women of their enemy's house. And the famous lines- ''what's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot, nor any other part belonging to a man''- are actually a profound moment of political awakening for Juliet, the moment she realizes that there's a vast gulf between the labels attached to a person and their fundamental humanity. Vonnegut, consummate cynic though he was, mentions RomeoAndJuliet in the prologue to BreakfastOfChampions ''Literature/BreakfastOfChampions'' as an example of something sacred, and this troper suspects there's a reason he chose this play, out of all of Shakespeare's: That man understood war. -- LaplacesKyton
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