History Fridge / PansLabyrinth

11th Apr '17 8:21:19 PM badwoolfgirl
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* The ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept the theory that the girl was [[spoiler: hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]].

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* The When Captain Vidal is introduced and greets Ofelia and her mother, there is a very subtle character-revealing clue in his dialogue that can be missed if you don't know Spanish or watch the film with English subtitles. Vidal greets them with "Bienvenidos," the Spanish word for "Welcome," but what can be lost on English Speakers is that there are four forms of saying welcome in Spanish--singular masculine (bienvenido) and feminine (bienvenida), and plural masculine (bienvenidos) and feminine (bienvenidas). It may seem like Vidal is making a grammatical mistake greeting Ofelia and her mother with the masculine plural as opposed to the feminine plural of "bienvenido," but Del Torro is using his native language's grammar rule for a reason--while a female-only company should be greeted with "bienvenidas," the masculine plural can be used for both all-male and mixed-gender company as well! Remember, Ofelia's mother is pregnant, and who is Vidal including with his greeting? His unborn son! By having Vidal greet Ofelia and her mother with "bienvenidos" instead of "bienvenidas," Del Torro reveals Vidal's misogyny by including his unborn son's presence along (or even over) the two female characters he's greeting.
*The
ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept the theory that the girl was [[spoiler: hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]].
21st Jan '17 5:41:19 AM TVTropeCorrector
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* The ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept the theory that the girl was [[spoiler: hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]]. --Pak

to:

* The ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept the theory that the girl was [[spoiler: hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]]. --Pak



** Or, conversely, it's GRIMDARK nihilistic unless you accept the girl went through [[spoiler: meaningful, genuine trials and found magic and meaning even in the horribleness of war, without surrendering to either evil or insanity]]. Interestingly, the film sets it up so that this is actually more plausible by the standards of Occam's Razor than the alternative; without it, she [[spoiler:inexplicably teleports twice]] and [[spoiler:the final shot of the flower blooming doesn't have an explanation either, since no one is around to hallucinate it]]. --@/{{Haven}}
*** Okay, in this troper's opinion, it was less a hallucination than a trauma-triggered fantasy perception of Ofelia. All of it. One can clearly see how the events involving the magic beings are triggered/dependent on the real-life happenings. And, for that matter, this troper ''believes'' to have figured out, how [[spoiler:she escaped the room in the end]].
*** May be a tiny bit WildMassGuessing, but although we do know that [[spoiler: her door was guarded, the guard may have either gone by the time Ofelia exited, or he went to take a look at the commotion down at in the courtyard (the two survivors of a patrol had made it back to their HQ at the mill.) Now, if it was really fully locked is another thought. Just because Vidal ordered the door to be locked, it doesn't mean that the guard actually did it [[TheGuardsMustBeCrazy (he may not have found it necessary.)]] Either that or Vidal actually only bluffed. In fact, as Vidal catches Ofelia with her baby brother in his study, he does not seem very confused why she isn't locked in her room. [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight He looks rather annoyed, in fact]]. Anyway, as Ofelia, her brother and Captain Vidal escape the mill, the Guerrillas (led by Mercedes) [[YouAreTooLate are seen entering Ofelia's bedroom, only to find it abandoned]]. Although the audience can catch a glimpse of Mercedes pushing open the door, one cannot definitely say whether it had been locked or not. It probably wasn't, or else the Guerrillas would have had to kick it in.]] --Jeezer

to:

** Or, conversely, it's GRIMDARK nihilistic unless you accept the girl went through [[spoiler: meaningful, genuine trials and found magic and meaning even in the horribleness of war, without surrendering to either evil or insanity]]. Interestingly, the film sets it up so that this is actually more plausible by the standards of Occam's Razor than the alternative; without it, she [[spoiler:inexplicably teleports twice]] and [[spoiler:the final shot of the flower blooming doesn't have an explanation either, since no one is around to hallucinate it]]. --@/{{Haven}}
it]].
*** Okay, in this troper's opinion, some believe, it was less a hallucination than a trauma-triggered fantasy perception of Ofelia. All of it. One can clearly see how the events involving the magic beings are triggered/dependent on the real-life happenings. And, for that matter, this troper ''believes'' some believe to have figured out, how [[spoiler:she escaped the room in the end]].
*** May be a tiny bit WildMassGuessing, but although we do know that [[spoiler: her door was guarded, the guard may have either gone by the time Ofelia exited, or he went to take a look at the commotion down at in the courtyard (the two survivors of a patrol had made it back to their HQ at the mill.) Now, if it was really fully locked is another thought. Just because Vidal ordered the door to be locked, it doesn't mean that the guard actually did it [[TheGuardsMustBeCrazy (he may not have found it necessary.)]] Either that or Vidal actually only bluffed. In fact, as Vidal catches Ofelia with her baby brother in his study, he does not seem very confused why she isn't locked in her room. [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight He looks rather annoyed, in fact]]. Anyway, as Ofelia, her brother and Captain Vidal escape the mill, the Guerrillas (led by Mercedes) [[YouAreTooLate are seen entering Ofelia's bedroom, only to find it abandoned]]. Although the audience can catch a glimpse of Mercedes pushing open the door, one cannot definitely say whether it had been locked or not. It probably wasn't, or else the Guerrillas would have had to kick it in.]] --Jeezer]]



*** There's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up himself]].

to:

*** There's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just it could be assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up himself]].



*** Is that so? This Troper recalls reading that Creator/GuillermoDelToro never gave a definite answer precisely because it is left up to the viewer to decide even though he tends to hint it was real. Personally, I believe that it was all a tragic hallucination but, either way, limiting the possibilities would be a huge mistake and Del Toro knew that.

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*** Is that so? This Troper recalls reading There was an article stating that Creator/GuillermoDelToro never gave a definite answer precisely because it is left up to the viewer to decide even though he tends to hint it was real. Personally, I believe that it was all a tragic hallucination but, either way, limiting the possibilities would be a huge mistake and Del Toro knew that.
22nd Dec '16 8:29:55 AM kalliston
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Added DiffLines:

**** So [[WildMassGuessing is it possible Mercedes and co. were cooking up something they shouldn't have been?]] Women staffed in the kitchen might be in a position to poison their employers.
10th Jun '16 7:45:52 AM moloch
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** This troper once saw the rather fantastic argument that clinging to the belief that it's all in Ofelia's head ''even though we explicitly see supernatural events like the labyrinth changing shape take place'' is simply privileging the supposedly "unbiased" view of the grown man who's a murdering fascist, over the view of the brave, intelligent girl. YouBastard. In essence, he's the one losing touch with reality, not her, because he denies the reality of what's in front of him.

to:

** This troper once saw the rather fantastic brilliant argument that clinging to the belief that it's all in Ofelia's head ''even though we explicitly see supernatural events like the labyrinth changing shape take place'' is simply privileging the supposedly "unbiased" view of the grown man who's a murdering fascist, over the view of the brave, intelligent girl. YouBastard. In essence, he's the one losing touch with reality, not her, because he denies the reality of what's in front of him.
27th Mar '16 1:45:14 PM Sharysa
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*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up himself]].

to:

*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's There's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up himself]].
27th Mar '16 1:43:49 PM Sharysa
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*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up for the movie]].

to:

*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a magical realm deep within the earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up for the movie]].himself]].
27th Mar '16 1:42:54 PM Sharysa
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*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls other realms "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a MagicalRealm deep within the earth" without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up for the story]].

to:

*** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls other realms TheOtherworld "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a MagicalRealm magical realm deep within the earth" earth," without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up for the story]].movie]].
27th Mar '16 1:41:51 PM Sharysa
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Added DiffLines:

**** In addition to CelticMythology, there's a ''huge'' swath of mythology that calls other realms "the Underworld" in the literal sense of "a MagicalRealm deep within the earth" without the Christian connotation of "Hell." The concept is either OlderThanDirt or at least OlderThanPrint, so [[{{Tropers/Sharysa}} this troper]] just assumed that del Toro [[{{Mythopoeia}} made it up for the story]].
14th Jan '16 11:57:06 AM Nylsa
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* A lot of what happens to Mercedes mirrors Ofelia's trials. Ofelia stealing the key from the toad's belly mirrors Mercedes stealing the key to the storehouse from Vidal so she can get what she needs stealthily. Mercedes wanting to take Ofelia away mirrors Ofelia wanting to take her brother away. In the end, [[spoiler: Mercedes is left holding Ofelia's brother]]. What if everything Ofelia goes through is just [[spoiler: Mercedes' telling the baby a bedtime story? She would be immortalizing the girl she loved so much by putting her into other well-loved stories]].
** The last part was most likely {{Jossed}}: See the link above. Nothing says Mercedes wouldn't [[spoilers: tell the little brother awesome stories of his PluckyGirl of an older sister, though]].

to:

* A lot of what happens to Mercedes mirrors Ofelia's trials. Ofelia stealing the key from the toad's belly mirrors Mercedes stealing the key to the storehouse from Vidal so she can get what she needs stealthily. Mercedes wanting to take Ofelia away mirrors Ofelia wanting to take her brother away. In the end, [[spoiler: Mercedes is left holding Ofelia's brother]]. What if everything Ofelia goes through is just [[spoiler: Mercedes' Mercedes telling the baby a bedtime story? She would be immortalizing the girl she loved so much by putting her into other well-loved stories]].
** The last part was most likely {{Jossed}}: See the link above. Nothing says Mercedes wouldn't [[spoilers: [[spoiler: tell the little brother awesome stories of his PluckyGirl of an older sister, though]].
14th Jan '16 11:16:45 AM Nylsa
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* The ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept [[spoiler:the girl was hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]]. --Pak

to:

* The ending of ''Pan's Labyrinth'' is fairytale cheesy unless you accept [[spoiler:the the theory that the girl was [[spoiler: hallucinating the entire time to escape from reality and no magical kingdom was waiting for her]]. --Pak



** Or, conversely, it's GRIMDARK nihilistic unless you accept [[spoiler:the girl went through meaningful, genuine trials and found magic and meaning even in the horribleness of war, without surrendering to either evil or insanity]]. Interestingly, the film sets it up so that this is actually more plausible by the standards of Occam's Razor than the alternative; without it, she [[spoiler:inexplicably teleports twice]] and [[spoiler:the final shot of the flower blooming doesn't have an explanation either, since no one is around to hallucinate it]]. --@/{{Haven}}

to:

** Or, conversely, it's GRIMDARK nihilistic unless you accept [[spoiler:the the girl went through [[spoiler: meaningful, genuine trials and found magic and meaning even in the horribleness of war, without surrendering to either evil or insanity]]. Interestingly, the film sets it up so that this is actually more plausible by the standards of Occam's Razor than the alternative; without it, she [[spoiler:inexplicably teleports twice]] and [[spoiler:the final shot of the flower blooming doesn't have an explanation either, since no one is around to hallucinate it]]. --@/{{Haven}}



**** [[spoiler:May be a tiny bit WildMassGuessing, but although we do know that her door was guarded, the guard may have either gone by the time Ofelia exited, or he went to take a look at the commotion down at in the courtyard (the two survivors of a patrol had made it back to their HQ at the mill.) Now, if it was really fully locked is another thought. Just because Vidal ordered the door to be locked, it doesn't mean that the guard actually did it [[TheGuardsMustBeCrazy (he may not have found it necessary.)]] Either that or Vidal actually only bluffed. In fact, as Vidal catches Ofelia with her baby brother in his study, he does not seem very confused why she isn't locked in her room. [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight He looks rather annoyed, in fact]]. Anyway, as Ofelia, her brother and Captain Vidal escape the mill, the Guerrillas (led by Mercedes) [[YouAreTooLate are seen entering Ofelia's bedroom, only to find it abandoned]]. Although the audience can catch a glimpse of Mercedes pushing open the door, one cannot define, whether it has been locked or not. It probably wasn't, or else the Guerrillas would have had to kick it in.]] --Jeezer

to:

**** [[spoiler:May May be a tiny bit WildMassGuessing, but although we do know that [[spoiler: her door was guarded, the guard may have either gone by the time Ofelia exited, or he went to take a look at the commotion down at in the courtyard (the two survivors of a patrol had made it back to their HQ at the mill.) Now, if it was really fully locked is another thought. Just because Vidal ordered the door to be locked, it doesn't mean that the guard actually did it [[TheGuardsMustBeCrazy (he may not have found it necessary.)]] Either that or Vidal actually only bluffed. In fact, as Vidal catches Ofelia with her baby brother in his study, he does not seem very confused why she isn't locked in her room. [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight He looks rather annoyed, in fact]]. Anyway, as Ofelia, her brother and Captain Vidal escape the mill, the Guerrillas (led by Mercedes) [[YouAreTooLate are seen entering Ofelia's bedroom, only to find it abandoned]]. Although the audience can catch a glimpse of Mercedes pushing open the door, one cannot define, definitely say whether it has had been locked or not. It probably wasn't, or else the Guerrillas would have had to kick it in.]] --Jeezer



* Everyone says that Ofelia holds the IdiotBall when she eats the food set out at the Pale Man's table. How hard is it to resist the food that belongs to Mr. NightmareFuel when you ''know darn well'' the consequence of eating food of the Underworld! But... Is Ofelia really that much more oblivious than her mother? Her mother who marries Captain Vidal, allows herself to be dominated by him body and soul, and must know how cruel he is, but is blinded by the wealth, comfort, and prestige that he offers. "Look at the beautiful clothes your father gave to us!"

to:

* Everyone says that Ofelia holds the IdiotBall when she eats the food set out at the Pale Man's table. How hard is it to resist the food that belongs to Mr. NightmareFuel when you ''know darn well'' the consequence of eating food of the Underworld! But... Is is Ofelia really that much more oblivious than her mother? Her mother who marries Captain Vidal, allows herself to be dominated by him body and soul, and must know how cruel he is, but is blinded by the wealth, comfort, and prestige that he offers. "Look at the beautiful clothes your father gave to us!"



* I think everyone's forgetting something: The... Baby root thing that the Faun gives Ofelia to cure her mother (the thing that's put in milk and has to be given blood everyday.) Both Vidal and Ofelia's mother saw and could touch it.
** But also only Ofelia sees it move and hears its pained screams during the fireplace scene.

to:

* I think everyone's forgetting something: The... Baby the... baby root thing that the Faun gives Ofelia to cure her mother (the thing that's put in milk and has to be given blood everyday.) Both Vidal and Ofelia's mother saw and could see and touch it.
** But also only Ofelia sees could see it move and hears hear its pained screams during the fireplace scene.



* Captain Vidal has been haunted all his life by his father's death, thanks to the memento of his broken watch. This must be why he wants a son so badly, so he can be a father to his boy like his own father never was. [[TroubledAbuser That makes him such a monster, the fact he has a very credible and very human backstory but still commits all these acts of evil.]]
** Not to mention, this human backstory makes him ''scarier'' -- it means that ''anyone'' can potentially turn out to be like him, if the right circumstances ever take place.
* A lot of what happens to Mercedes mirrors Ofelia's trials. Stealing the key from the toad's belly mirrors Mercedes stealing the key to the storehouse from Vidal, using the key to get what she needs stealthily, wanting to take Ofelia away mirrors Ofelia wanting to take her brother away.) At the end, Mercedes is left with Ofelia's brother; what if everything Ofelia goes through is just Mercedes' telling the baby a bedtime story? She's immortalizing the girl she loved so much by putting her into the stories she loved so much.
** The last part was most likely {{Jossed}}: See the link above. Nothing says Mercedes wouldn't tell the little brother awesome stories of his PluckyGirl of an older sister, though.

to:

* Captain Vidal has been haunted all his life by his father's death, thanks to the memento of his the latter's broken watch. This must be why he wants a son so badly, so badly- he can be a the father to his boy like that his own father had never was. been. [[TroubledAbuser That This still makes him such a monster, the fact monster: he has a very credible and very human backstory backstory, but he is still commits all these willing to commit many acts of evil.evil during the course of the movie.]]
** Not to mention, this human backstory makes him ''scarier'' -- it means that ''anyone'' can potentially turn out to be like him, if the right circumstances ever take took place.
* A lot of what happens to Mercedes mirrors Ofelia's trials. Stealing Ofelia stealing the key from the toad's belly mirrors Mercedes stealing the key to the storehouse from Vidal, using the key to Vidal so she can get what she needs stealthily, stealthily. Mercedes wanting to take Ofelia away mirrors Ofelia wanting to take her brother away.) At away. In the end, [[spoiler: Mercedes is left with holding Ofelia's brother; what brother]]. What if everything Ofelia goes through is just [[spoiler: Mercedes' telling the baby a bedtime story? She's She would be immortalizing the girl she loved so much by putting her into the stories she loved so much.
other well-loved stories]].
** The last part was most likely {{Jossed}}: See the link above. Nothing says Mercedes wouldn't [[spoilers: tell the little brother awesome stories of his PluckyGirl of an older sister, though.
though]].
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