History Fridge / KingdomHeartsII

2nd Feb '17 10:28:44 AM The_Pyro_Jawsome
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* So I was thinking about the Cavern of Remembrance, Final Mix's BonusDungeon, and why it's so platform-heavy compared to the rest of the game. Then I realized: the Cavern represents Sora's ''remembrance'' of his earlier adventures, and requires him to platform (and use the abilities gained by leveling the Drive Forms), to reach the end! And what's at the end? The area in the waterfall where the Data XIII await.
*Each of the Mushroom XIII correspond to a certain member of the Organization, yet most aren't encountered where you fought that member, except for one. Xemnas's mushroom is fought at the base of Memory's Skyscraper, where you fight Xemnas's first form. I also figured out that they're challenges also represent you releasing their hearts, be they that of the Organization's Other's, or others that imitated those Nobodies. Which is why once you complete their challenges and find them in the Great Maw, they give you the Winner's Proof and leave.
30th Jan '17 1:53:55 PM twg92
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30th Jan '17 1:53:31 PM twg92
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*** Adding to this Roxas looks just like Ventus, she might just think that they're the same person. After all someone not aging a single day after 10+ years wouldn't exactly be new to her.



** Actually it does. You don't necessarily always create a nobody when you become a heartless. Only those with a strong heart become nobodies. Scar had much darkness, but there's no proof he had a strong heart. Even if he did, it would have to be very strong to retain it's original form and it would definitely have Scar's mind. So why does it never say anything? Scar created an incredibly strong-willed heartless but a nobody is never seen. However, if he never made a nobody then technically his original self ought to have been reborn since his heartless' destruction... Then again, it's a bit ambiguous whether that even was a heartless at all.
*** Hopefully ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' will explain this, though if this world does reappear, I hope we can see Scar and Zira together as an action couple.
* So thanks to ''Dream Drop Distance'', we now know that [[spoiler: Xemnas' real plan was to use the artificial Kingdom Hearts to fill all thirteen Organization members with copies of Xehanort's heart. Now, having all of the others get killed obviously derailed that plan, and Ansem damaging Kingdom Hearts with his encoder device threw it even further off-course. However, Ansem didn't destroy all of it, and Xemnas merged with the remains. What happened to all those hearts when Xemnas was defeated? What if there are hundreds if not ''thousands'' of hearts returning to the ''real'' Kingdom Hearts tainted by Xehanort through Xemnas? We're talking about [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII a potential Jenova plot]] at this point!]]
* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.
* In this game, Sora opens the gateway to the next world after completing a world instead of sealing the world's Keyhole. But what about the Keyholes of the worlds that he visits for the first time in this game? Those worlds are still in danger of being consumed by TheHeartless!
** It took ten years for the Heartless invasion in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' to get as bad as it did, and sealing a Keyhole doesn't stop the Heartless from causing havoc on a world's surface. The new worlds in this game are probably still in the early stages of invasion and won't be in serious danger for some time. On the other hand, the Organization was planning something that [[EvilOnlyHasToWinOnce could have put all the worlds in danger at once,]] so it'd make sense to stop them first, then worry about the Keyholes later [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome off-screen]] (or [[SequelHook on-screen,]] depending on how ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' plays out).

to:

** Actually it does. You don't necessarily always create a nobody when you become a heartless. Only those with a strong heart become nobodies. Scar had much darkness, but there's no proof he had a strong heart. Even if he did, it would have to be very strong to retain it's original form and it would definitely have Scar's mind. So why does it never say anything? Scar created an incredibly strong-willed heartless but a nobody is never seen. However, if he never made a nobody then technically his original self ought to have been reborn since his heartless' destruction... Then again, it's a bit ambiguous whether that even was a heartless at all.
*** Hopefully ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' will explain this, though if this world does reappear, I hope we can see Scar and Zira together as an action couple.
* So thanks to ''Dream Drop Distance'', we now know that [[spoiler: Xemnas' real plan was to use the artificial Kingdom Hearts to fill all thirteen Organization members with copies of Xehanort's heart. Now, having all of the others get killed obviously derailed that plan, and Ansem damaging Kingdom Hearts with his encoder device threw it even further off-course. However, Ansem didn't destroy all of it, and Xemnas merged with the remains. What happened to all those hearts when Xemnas was defeated? What if there are hundreds if not ''thousands'' of hearts returning to the ''real'' Kingdom Hearts tainted by Xehanort through Xemnas? We're talking about [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII a potential Jenova plot]] at this point!]]
* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.
* In this game, Sora opens the gateway to the next world after completing a world instead of sealing the world's Keyhole. But what about the Keyholes of the worlds that he visits for the first time in this game? Those worlds are still in danger of being consumed by TheHeartless!
** It took ten years for the Heartless invasion in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' to get as bad as it did, and sealing a Keyhole doesn't stop the Heartless from causing havoc on a world's surface. The new worlds in this game are probably still in the early stages of invasion and won't be in serious danger for some time. On the other hand, the Organization was planning something that [[EvilOnlyHasToWinOnce could have put all the worlds in danger at once,]] so it'd make sense to stop them first, then worry about the Keyholes later [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome off-screen]] (or [[SequelHook on-screen,]] depending on how ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' plays out).
heartless
20th Jan '17 11:49:39 PM olivemeister
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** As it turns out, ''Dream Drop Distance'' gives us the actual answer. Rather than the above reason, it seems the true one is that [[spoiler: this was when Xemnas symbolically affixed the Recusant's Sigil to Roxas]]. Presumably, despite his hands-off attitude with the Organization, he was the one to meet with and rename each member for this exact reason.
29th Dec '16 12:07:13 PM DustSnitch
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* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!

to:

* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss badass than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!
15th Dec '16 11:52:08 AM Allronix
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* ''"Because I want to help them. [[Main/TinMan Something written into my code commands me to do what is right."]]'' - Oh, Tron. If one remembers the film, then you remember Gibbs's line "Our spirit remains in every program we design!" It's not necessarily his ''written'' code, but the fact he was designed by an incredibly ethical programmer. The films also play into the ambiguity of how much like humans Programs are, reflecting the best and worst of their creators. [[spoiler: likewise, come ''Dream Drop Distance'', we don't get a clear answer as to whether Programs have hearts or can develop them. Quorra certainly didn't think so, but Sora heartily disagreed.]]
12th Nov '16 1:23:01 PM MrUnderhill
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** It took ten years for the Heartless invasion in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' to get as bad as it did, and sealing a Keyhole doesn't stop the Heartless from causing havoc on a world's surface. Considering the Organization was planning something that [[EvilOnlyHasToWinOnce could have put all the worlds in danger at once,]] it'd make sense to stop them first, then worry about the Keyholes later [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome off-screen]] (or [[SequelHook on-screen,]] depending on how ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' plays out).

to:

** It took ten years for the Heartless invasion in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' to get as bad as it did, and sealing a Keyhole doesn't stop the Heartless from causing havoc on a world's surface. Considering The new worlds in this game are probably still in the early stages of invasion and won't be in serious danger for some time. On the other hand, the Organization was planning something that [[EvilOnlyHasToWinOnce could have put all the worlds in danger at once,]] so it'd make sense to stop them first, then worry about the Keyholes later [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome off-screen]] (or [[SequelHook on-screen,]] depending on how ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' plays out).
12th Nov '16 1:20:40 PM MrUnderhill
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* In this game, Sora opens the gateway to the next world after completing a world instead of sealing the world's Keyhole. But what about the Keyholes of the worlds that he visits for the first time in this game? Those worlds are still in danger of being consumed by TheHeartless!

to:

* In this game, Sora opens the gateway to the next world after completing a world instead of sealing the world's Keyhole. But what about the Keyholes of the worlds that he visits for the first time in this game? Those worlds are still in danger of being consumed by TheHeartless!TheHeartless!
** It took ten years for the Heartless invasion in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' to get as bad as it did, and sealing a Keyhole doesn't stop the Heartless from causing havoc on a world's surface. Considering the Organization was planning something that [[EvilOnlyHasToWinOnce could have put all the worlds in danger at once,]] it'd make sense to stop them first, then worry about the Keyholes later [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome off-screen]] (or [[SequelHook on-screen,]] depending on how ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'' plays out).
31st Oct '16 7:54:21 AM SereneSpecter13
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* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.

to:

* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.being.
* In this game, Sora opens the gateway to the next world after completing a world instead of sealing the world's Keyhole. But what about the Keyholes of the worlds that he visits for the first time in this game? Those worlds are still in danger of being consumed by TheHeartless!
2nd Aug '16 9:20:57 AM MathematicalVoid
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* The Proof of Existence in The World That Never Was, as Kairi points out, looks like a graveyard. So why do the Nobodies that are still around have tombstones that are perfectly intact, but not the ones that died? Because they regained their hearts and exist again. They're less dead.
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