History Fridge / KingdomHeartsII

2nd Aug '16 9:20:57 AM MathematicalVoid
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* The Proof of Existence in The World That Never Was, as Kairi points out, looks like a graveyard. So why do the Nobodies that are still around have tombstones that are perfectly intact, but not the ones that died? Because they regained their hearts and exist again. They're less dead.
31st Jul '16 5:08:29 PM vh1660924
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* Demyx's LetsGetDangerous wasn't just because Sora, Donald, and Goofy brought up the whole lack of a heart thing. It's because of the perceived hypocrisy that ''Roxas'' was telling him that.
** In ''Dream Drop Distance'' [[spoiler: it's revealed that Nobodies actually ''do'' develop replacements for their hearts over time. Maybe Demyx was somewhat aware of his own "heart" and was just ''very'' pissed off when Sora and co. [[CassandraTruth outright told him that he's lying when he's not]]. Of course, it's just as likely that Demyx thought that he really [[AccidentalTruth was lying all along.]] ]]
** On that note, I was puzzled ever since playing ''Kingdom Hearts II'' about why the Organization members kept refering to Sora as Roxas. Then, after playing Days and learning [[spoiler: Xion's true nature and that she merges with Roxas,]] it seems clear that Sora's appearance in [=KH2=] [[spoiler: varies depending on who is looking at him. Thus, the Organization members are calling him, "Roxas," because when they look at him, they see Roxas.]]
** Alternate explanation: [[spoiler: They somehow ''sense'' Roxas buried inside Sora. (They seem to recognize him as both Sora and Roxas at times.)]]
** To add to the alternate explanation above, it's been stated in-game that Nobodies give off a similar presence as their original being. Mickey states in-game that he'd seen Xemnas and Xehanort before, and that it "kinda felt like being around the same person. Additionally, in 358/2 Days the Magic Carpet in Agrabah seems to recognize Roxas (according to Genie, Carpet thinks he is a friend), but neither Carpet nor Genie can explain why. It's actually because Carpet recognizes Roxas as Sora, but because this was during the period in time where Sora's memories were being put back together, their memories of him were faint at best!
** To add to the above, when you go to Never Land in Days you meet up with Tinker Bell, who grants you flight right away. It's not hard to see why, you need Flight in order to move around on the map. Then when you come back with Axel she hides behind Roxas as if she completely trusts him. It's only because she senses Sora through Roxas that she's willing help him, without Peter Pan to be seen no less.
** Alternately, they're just fucking with him.
*** Possible, just look at the scene where Demyx reads out from the cue card!
-->'''Demyx''':If the subject fails to respond, use aggression to liberate his true disposition...Right.
* Usually we don't get jack of explanation about how Sora gets new Keyblades on every world he visits, neither on ''I'' or ''II''. The first Keyblade Sora earns (Besides his trademark Kingdom Key) on II is the Star Seeker, obtained on Yen Sid's tower. It would remain just another unexplained Keyblade until ''Birth By Sleep'' came out. The Kingdom Key D wasn't King Mickey's first Keyblade, that was the Star Seeker, which Yen Sid gave him in the first place. So it's not hard to conclude that same Star Seeker is the one Sora obtains on ''II''. It's a variation of TakeUpMySword. -- Oliveira
** Considering the Keyblades are actually just Keychains changing the form of the main blade, Sora probably just finds Keychains lying around. Kairi even gives him a Keychain (her good luck charm) at one point, and it's possible to use it as a Keyblade.
** It's more likely that the Key chains are just manifestations of Sora's memories of each world.
** I thought it was obvious (especially after BBS) that the "different" keyblades aren't actual different keyblades; just different forms the keyblade takes depending on it's keychain? For example, when Kairi gives Aqua the bunch of flowers in BBS, it's pretty much assumed Aqua just makes a wee token out of it to stick on the end of her keyblade's chain and tht transforms it. So I assume Sora just takes something to remember the world by and makes a keychain out of it.
*** ...[[IncrediblyLamePun Chain of Memories]]?
* When I played Kingdom Hearts II, it always bugged me a little bit how much of an IdiotHero Sora was, just driving forward in the plot without barely even considering what Organization XIII was planning. The main reason for this was because of Roxas - during his seven days, as he tried to figure out what was happening around him, he struck me as smarter than Sora, [[spoiler:which didn't make sense, considering he was his Nobody.]] Then I played 358/2 Days, expecting Roxas to stumble over a big secret of the Organization. [[spoiler:Instead, he stumbles around in the dark, completely unaware of his and Xion's status as [[UnwittingPawn pawns in Xemnas' plans]].]] He doesn't even try to solve the mystery, he's content just to do his work and eat ice cream with his friends. At that point I realized, not only is his thought process ''exactly'' like Sora's, he's a kid that never learned to have the drive and initiative that Sora [[spoiler:and Xion]] have in spades. Bravo, Nomura. - @/ArcVaranus
* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!
** Well, before Roxas joined, there was a nine year period where no one was collecting hearts (Marluxia even says that Roxas is the first member of the Org. to actually collect hearts.) You'd wonder, if he had a Keyblade of his own, why he didn't just collect the hearts and get it over with, but the thing is, Xemnas is very patient, and has apparently spent his time making lots of plans. I mean, consider how well Organized the Organization is for (most) of Days, and the fact that Xemnas has managed to build a castle, city, replicas, and an army of Nobodies with eleven-going-on-twelve Higher ranking ones directly obeying him. And there's a second FridgeBrilliance for Xemnas not going on Heart collection, and it's that [[spoiler:he doesn't want to risk being destroyed. When a Heartless and a Nobody are destroyed in that order, the original self is reborn, but it's not known what happens the other way around, and it's doubtful that Xemnas would risk that, so he's basically been waiting nine years for someone to off his Heartless.]] And finally, it seemed odd to me how Xemnas's weapons were almost more ridiculous than the rest of the Organization, FrickinLaserBeams coming out of the hands, but now I get that [[spoiler:his real weapon was the Keyblade and the Ethereal Blades were a manifestation of his '''powers'''.]]
** If [[spoiler:a Heartless and a Nobody being destroyed in that order causes the original self to be reborn]], doesn't that mean Xemnas got what he was after?
** There's no particular consequence in killing the Heartless and the Nobody in order. If the Heartless is destroyed, the heart remains in stasis until its Nobody is destroyed. If the Nobody is destroyed, it will be consumed by darkness waiting for its heart to be liberated by the keyblade.
* Xemnas and Axel both suggest that spending time near Sora's heart caused Axel to feel emotions of his own. If that's true, then no wonder he was acting so strangely! Feeling emotions after several years of not being able to? I'd go a little crazy, too.
** Not to mention they flat out say that Axel was the Organization's assassin, and probably racked up a hell of a body count during the decade or so he was in it. So since he's starting to be able to feel, the emotional whiplash of it all is probably hitting him like a fucking train. It's amazing that he's functional at all. [[spoiler:Although that interpretation does give more motives to his suicide, while making it even more of a tearjerker]]
* Near the end of the game when Ansem the Wise was using his Heart Encoder to encode the artificial Kingdom Hearts and Xemnas did nothing to stop it. Why, why did he not try to stop the one thing that could put a dent in his master plan? [[spoiler: Its revealed in Dream Drop Distance that the true goal of Organization XIII was to implant the heart of Master Xehanort among thirteen vessels using the power of the artifical Kingdom Hearts. So there was no point to stopping Ansem since by that point, the Organization was reduced to just Xemnas.]]
* In Sora's first encounter with Xigbar, Xigbar says, "He used to give me that same look." "He" isn't Roxas, because Roxas never had such interaction with Xigbar. No, the "he" in question is Ventus.
* This always confuses me, but whenever somebody enters the [[spoiler: alternate Twilight Town]], they remain in their normal forms, despite being in a computer. Maybe [=DiZ=] created a laser that teleports people without turning them into programs, thus. Shows he may be even better with computers than Kevin Flynn himself, considering that he had access to Space Paranoids for at least 11 years before [[spoiler: Terranort]] stole his name.
** Either that, or this is further proof that programs can leave computer worlds on their own free will [[spoiler: (that's later confirmed with Quorra)]], since Sora, Donald, Goofy and Mickey use a dark portal to leave a computer; thus, they remain pseudo-programs to this day.
** Organization XIII could've had their own digitization tech on their end of the portal. Presumably, that hole in the simulation was where Axel and his mooks got in when they were trying to extract Roxas.



* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.

!!Fridge Logic

* Demyx's LetsGetDangerous wasn't just because Sora, Donald, and Goofy brought up the whole lack of a heart thing. It's because of the perceived hypocrisy that ''Roxas'' was telling him that.
** In ''Dream Drop Distance'' [[spoiler: it's revealed that Nobodies actually ''do'' develop replacements for their hearts over time. Maybe Demyx was somewhat aware of his own "heart" and was just ''very'' pissed off when Sora and co. [[CassandraTruth outright told him that he's lying when he's not]]. Of course, it's just as likely that Demyx thought that he really [[AccidentalTruth was lying all along.]] ]]
** On that note, I was puzzled ever since playing ''Kingdom Hearts II'' about why the Organization members kept refering to Sora as Roxas. Then, after playing Days and learning [[spoiler: Xion's true nature and that she merges with Roxas,]] it seems clear that Sora's appearance in [=KH2=] [[spoiler: varies depending on who is looking at him. Thus, the Organization members are calling him, "Roxas," because when they look at him, they see Roxas.]]
** Alternate explanation: [[spoiler: They somehow ''sense'' Roxas buried inside Sora. (They seem to recognize him as both Sora and Roxas at times.)]]
** To add to the alternate explanation above, it's been stated in-game that Nobodies give off a similar presence as their original being. Mickey states in-game that he'd seen Xemnas and Xehanort before, and that it "kinda felt like being around the same person. Additionally, in 358/2 Days the Magic Carpet in Agrabah seems to recognize Roxas (according to Genie, Carpet thinks he is a friend), but neither Carpet nor Genie can explain why. It's actually because Carpet recognizes Roxas as Sora, but because this was during the period in time where Sora's memories were being put back together, their memories of him were faint at best!
** To add to the above, when you go to Never Land in Days you meet up with Tinker Bell, who grants you flight right away. It's not hard to see why, you need Flight in order to move around on the map. Then when you come back with Axel she hides behind Roxas as if she completely trusts him. It's only because she senses Sora through Roxas that she's willing help him, without Peter Pan to be seen no less.
** Alternately, they're just fucking with him.
*** Possible, just look at the scene where Demyx reads out from the cue card!
-->'''Demyx''':If the subject fails to respond, use aggression to liberate his true disposition...Right.
* Usually we don't get jack of explanation about how Sora gets new Keyblades on every world he visits, neither on ''I'' or ''II''. The first Keyblade Sora earns (Besides his trademark Kingdom Key) on II is the Star Seeker, obtained on Yen Sid's tower. It would remain just another unexplained Keyblade until ''Birth By Sleep'' came out. The Kingdom Key D wasn't King Mickey's first Keyblade, that was the Star Seeker, which Yen Sid gave him in the first place. So it's not hard to conclude that same Star Seeker is the one Sora obtains on ''II''. It's a variation of TakeUpMySword. -- Oliveira
** Considering the Keyblades are actually just Keychains changing the form of the main blade, Sora probably just finds Keychains lying around. Kairi even gives him a Keychain (her good luck charm) at one point, and it's possible to use it as a Keyblade.
** It's more likely that the Key chains are just manifestations of Sora's memories of each world.
** I thought it was obvious (especially after BBS) that the "different" keyblades aren't actual different keyblades; just different forms the keyblade takes depending on it's keychain? For example, when Kairi gives Aqua the bunch of flowers in BBS, it's pretty much assumed Aqua just makes a wee token out of it to stick on the end of her keyblade's chain and tht transforms it. So I assume Sora just takes something to remember the world by and makes a keychain out of it.
*** ...[[IncrediblyLamePun Chain of Memories]]?
* When I played Kingdom Hearts II, it always bugged me a little bit how much of an IdiotHero Sora was, just driving forward in the plot without barely even considering what Organization XIII was planning. The main reason for this was because of Roxas - during his seven days, as he tried to figure out what was happening around him, he struck me as smarter than Sora, [[spoiler:which didn't make sense, considering he was his Nobody.]] Then I played 358/2 Days, expecting Roxas to stumble over a big secret of the Organization. [[spoiler:Instead, he stumbles around in the dark, completely unaware of his and Xion's status as [[UnwittingPawn pawns in Xemnas' plans]].]] He doesn't even try to solve the mystery, he's content just to do his work and eat ice cream with his friends. At that point I realized, not only is his thought process ''exactly'' like Sora's, he's a kid that never learned to have the drive and initiative that Sora [[spoiler:and Xion]] have in spades. Bravo, Nomura. - @/ArcVaranus
* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!
** Well, before Roxas joined, there was a nine year period where no one was collecting hearts (Marluxia even says that Roxas is the first member of the Org. to actually collect hearts.) You'd wonder, if he had a Keyblade of his own, why he didn't just collect the hearts and get it over with, but the thing is, Xemnas is very patient, and has apparently spent his time making lots of plans. I mean, consider how well Organized the Organization is for (most) of Days, and the fact that Xemnas has managed to build a castle, city, replicas, and an army of Nobodies with eleven-going-on-twelve Higher ranking ones directly obeying him. And there's a second FridgeBrilliance for Xemnas not going on Heart collection, and it's that [[spoiler:he doesn't want to risk being destroyed. When a Heartless and a Nobody are destroyed in that order, the original self is reborn, but it's not known what happens the other way around, and it's doubtful that Xemnas would risk that, so he's basically been waiting nine years for someone to off his Heartless.]] And finally, it seemed odd to me how Xemnas's weapons were almost more ridiculous than the rest of the Organization, FrickinLaserBeams coming out of the hands, but now I get that [[spoiler:his real weapon was the Keyblade and the Ethereal Blades were a manifestation of his '''powers'''.]]
** If [[spoiler:a Heartless and a Nobody being destroyed in that order causes the original self to be reborn]], doesn't that mean Xemnas got what he was after?
** There's no particular consequence in killing the Heartless and the Nobody in order. If the Heartless is destroyed, the heart remains in stasis until its Nobody is destroyed. If the Nobody is destroyed, it will be consumed by darkness waiting for its heart to be liberated by the keyblade.
* Xemnas and Axel both suggest that spending time near Sora's heart caused Axel to feel emotions of his own. If that's true, then no wonder he was acting so strangely! Feeling emotions after several years of not being able to? I'd go a little crazy, too.
** Not to mention they flat out say that Axel was the Organization's assassin, and probably racked up a hell of a body count during the decade or so he was in it. So since he's starting to be able to feel, the emotional whiplash of it all is probably hitting him like a fucking train. It's amazing that he's functional at all. [[spoiler:Although that interpretation does give more motives to his suicide, while making it even more of a tearjerker]]
* Near the end of the game when Ansem the Wise was using his Heart Encoder to encode the artificial Kingdom Hearts and Xemnas did nothing to stop it. Why, why did he not try to stop the one thing that could put a dent in his master plan? [[spoiler: Its revealed in Dream Drop Distance that the true goal of Organization XIII was to implant the heart of Master Xehanort among thirteen vessels using the power of the artifical Kingdom Hearts. So there was no point to stopping Ansem since by that point, the Organization was reduced to just Xemnas.]]
* In Sora's first encounter with Xigbar, Xigbar says, "He used to give me that same look." "He" isn't Roxas, because Roxas never had such interaction with Xigbar. No, the "he" in question is Ventus.
* This always confuses me, but whenever somebody enters the [[spoiler: alternate Twilight Town]], they remain in their normal forms, despite being in a computer. Maybe [=DiZ=] created a laser that teleports people without turning them into programs, thus. Shows he may be even better with computers than Kevin Flynn himself, considering that he had access to Space Paranoids for at least 11 years before [[spoiler: Terranort]] stole his name.
** Either that, or this is further proof that programs can leave computer worlds on their own free will [[spoiler: (that's later confirmed with Quorra)]], since Sora, Donald, Goofy and Mickey use a dark portal to leave a computer; thus, they remain pseudo-programs to this day.
** Organization XIII could've had their own digitization tech on their end of the portal. Presumably, that hole in the simulation was where Axel and his mooks got in when they were trying to extract Roxas.

to:

* An interesting thing that Naminé says when speaking to Roxas is that, when he mentions Org XIII as being a bad group, her response is "Bad, or good. I don't know." On the surface, this doesn't make sense, they're undeniably a rotten group of people and Naminé has no reason to think otherwise, given they abused her and forced her to brainwash Sora. Then you remember that the only 'good' person she met, Sora, she only knew for a short span of time, and has spent the intervening ''year'' in the company of Ansem the Wise, who isn't shy about sharing his [[FantasticRacism opinion]] on Nobodies such as her. The only person in the Organization that Naminé met before Roxas (who she'd already had to brainwash into this summer vacation fantasy by that point) that wasn't intent on using her for their own means or pursuing an unknown agenda was Xion, who was being manipulated just like Naminé was (and whom Naminé had to convince to give up her own existence). Considering all that, of course Naminé doesn't know who is good and who is bad, both sides have offered up manipulative assholes that treated her like garbage and that's really all she knew for the entire year she existed as an independent being.

!!Fridge Logic

* Demyx's LetsGetDangerous wasn't just because Sora, Donald, and Goofy brought up the whole lack of a heart thing. It's because of the perceived hypocrisy that ''Roxas'' was telling him that.
** In ''Dream Drop Distance'' [[spoiler: it's revealed that Nobodies actually ''do'' develop replacements for their hearts over time. Maybe Demyx was somewhat aware of his own "heart" and was just ''very'' pissed off when Sora and co. [[CassandraTruth outright told him that he's lying when he's not]]. Of course, it's just as likely that Demyx thought that he really [[AccidentalTruth was lying all along.]] ]]
** On that note, I was puzzled ever since playing ''Kingdom Hearts II'' about why the Organization members kept refering to Sora as Roxas. Then, after playing Days and learning [[spoiler: Xion's true nature and that she merges with Roxas,]] it seems clear that Sora's appearance in [=KH2=] [[spoiler: varies depending on who is looking at him. Thus, the Organization members are calling him, "Roxas," because when they look at him, they see Roxas.]]
** Alternate explanation: [[spoiler: They somehow ''sense'' Roxas buried inside Sora. (They seem to recognize him as both Sora and Roxas at times.)]]
** To add to the alternate explanation above, it's been stated in-game that Nobodies give off a similar presence as their original being. Mickey states in-game that he'd seen Xemnas and Xehanort before, and that it "kinda felt like being around the same person. Additionally, in 358/2 Days the Magic Carpet in Agrabah seems to recognize Roxas (according to Genie, Carpet thinks he is a friend), but neither Carpet nor Genie can explain why. It's actually because Carpet recognizes Roxas as Sora, but because this was during the period in time where Sora's memories were being put back together, their memories of him were faint at best!
** To add to the above, when you go to Never Land in Days you meet up with Tinker Bell, who grants you flight right away. It's not hard to see why, you need Flight in order to move around on the map. Then when you come back with Axel she hides behind Roxas as if she completely trusts him. It's only because she senses Sora through Roxas that she's willing help him, without Peter Pan to be seen no less.
** Alternately, they're just fucking with him.
*** Possible, just look at the scene where Demyx reads out from the cue card!
-->'''Demyx''':If the subject fails to respond, use aggression to liberate his true disposition...Right.
* Usually we don't get jack of explanation about how Sora gets new Keyblades on every world he visits, neither on ''I'' or ''II''. The first Keyblade Sora earns (Besides his trademark Kingdom Key) on II is the Star Seeker, obtained on Yen Sid's tower. It would remain just another unexplained Keyblade until ''Birth By Sleep'' came out. The Kingdom Key D wasn't King Mickey's first Keyblade, that was the Star Seeker, which Yen Sid gave him in the first place. So it's not hard to conclude that same Star Seeker is the one Sora obtains on ''II''. It's a variation of TakeUpMySword. -- Oliveira
** Considering the Keyblades are actually just Keychains changing the form of the main blade, Sora probably just finds Keychains lying around. Kairi even gives him a Keychain (her good luck charm) at one point, and it's possible to use it as a Keyblade.
** It's more likely that the Key chains are just manifestations of Sora's memories of each world.
** I thought it was obvious (especially after BBS) that the "different" keyblades aren't actual different keyblades; just different forms the keyblade takes depending on it's keychain? For example, when Kairi gives Aqua the bunch of flowers in BBS, it's pretty much assumed Aqua just makes a wee token out of it to stick on the end of her keyblade's chain and tht transforms it. So I assume Sora just takes something to remember the world by and makes a keychain out of it.
*** ...[[IncrediblyLamePun Chain of Memories]]?
* When I played Kingdom Hearts II, it always bugged me a little bit how much of an IdiotHero Sora was, just driving forward in the plot without barely even considering what Organization XIII was planning. The main reason for this was because of Roxas - during his seven days, as he tried to figure out what was happening around him, he struck me as smarter than Sora, [[spoiler:which didn't make sense, considering he was his Nobody.]] Then I played 358/2 Days, expecting Roxas to stumble over a big secret of the Organization. [[spoiler:Instead, he stumbles around in the dark, completely unaware of his and Xion's status as [[UnwittingPawn pawns in Xemnas' plans]].]] He doesn't even try to solve the mystery, he's content just to do his work and eat ice cream with his friends. At that point I realized, not only is his thought process ''exactly'' like Sora's, he's a kid that never learned to have the drive and initiative that Sora [[spoiler:and Xion]] have in spades. Bravo, Nomura. - @/ArcVaranus
* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!
** Well, before Roxas joined, there was a nine year period where no one was collecting hearts (Marluxia even says that Roxas is the first member of the Org. to actually collect hearts.) You'd wonder, if he had a Keyblade of his own, why he didn't just collect the hearts and get it over with, but the thing is, Xemnas is very patient, and has apparently spent his time making lots of plans. I mean, consider how well Organized the Organization is for (most) of Days, and the fact that Xemnas has managed to build a castle, city, replicas, and an army of Nobodies with eleven-going-on-twelve Higher ranking ones directly obeying him. And there's a second FridgeBrilliance for Xemnas not going on Heart collection, and it's that [[spoiler:he doesn't want to risk being destroyed. When a Heartless and a Nobody are destroyed in that order, the original self is reborn, but it's not known what happens the other way around, and it's doubtful that Xemnas would risk that, so he's basically been waiting nine years for someone to off his Heartless.]] And finally, it seemed odd to me how Xemnas's weapons were almost more ridiculous than the rest of the Organization, FrickinLaserBeams coming out of the hands, but now I get that [[spoiler:his real weapon was the Keyblade and the Ethereal Blades were a manifestation of his '''powers'''.]]
** If [[spoiler:a Heartless and a Nobody being destroyed in that order causes the original self to be reborn]], doesn't that mean Xemnas got what he was after?
** There's no particular consequence in killing the Heartless and the Nobody in order. If the Heartless is destroyed, the heart remains in stasis until its Nobody is destroyed. If the Nobody is destroyed, it will be consumed by darkness waiting for its heart to be liberated by the keyblade.
* Xemnas and Axel both suggest that spending time near Sora's heart caused Axel to feel emotions of his own. If that's true, then no wonder he was acting so strangely! Feeling emotions after several years of not being able to? I'd go a little crazy, too.
** Not to mention they flat out say that Axel was the Organization's assassin, and probably racked up a hell of a body count during the decade or so he was in it. So since he's starting to be able to feel, the emotional whiplash of it all is probably hitting him like a fucking train. It's amazing that he's functional at all. [[spoiler:Although that interpretation does give more motives to his suicide, while making it even more of a tearjerker]]
* Near the end of the game when Ansem the Wise was using his Heart Encoder to encode the artificial Kingdom Hearts and Xemnas did nothing to stop it. Why, why did he not try to stop the one thing that could put a dent in his master plan? [[spoiler: Its revealed in Dream Drop Distance that the true goal of Organization XIII was to implant the heart of Master Xehanort among thirteen vessels using the power of the artifical Kingdom Hearts. So there was no point to stopping Ansem since by that point, the Organization was reduced to just Xemnas.]]
* In Sora's first encounter with Xigbar, Xigbar says, "He used to give me that same look." "He" isn't Roxas, because Roxas never had such interaction with Xigbar. No, the "he" in question is Ventus.
* This always confuses me, but whenever somebody enters the [[spoiler: alternate Twilight Town]], they remain in their normal forms, despite being in a computer. Maybe [=DiZ=] created a laser that teleports people without turning them into programs, thus. Shows he may be even better with computers than Kevin Flynn himself, considering that he had access to Space Paranoids for at least 11 years before [[spoiler: Terranort]] stole his name.
** Either that, or this is further proof that programs can leave computer worlds on their own free will [[spoiler: (that's later confirmed with Quorra)]], since Sora, Donald, Goofy and Mickey use a dark portal to leave a computer; thus, they remain pseudo-programs to this day.
** Organization XIII could've had their own digitization tech on their end of the portal. Presumably, that hole in the simulation was where Axel and his mooks got in when they were trying to extract Roxas.
being.
26th Jul '16 1:03:23 PM JamesSwann
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* Why does Mickey just run off and leave Mickey behind? As revealed by ''Dream Drop Distance'', '''''she''''' is the one with royal blood; its '''''her''''' castle, so ''of course'' he's going to leave the Queen in charge - leaving her behind also keeps her safe.

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* Why does Mickey just run off and leave Mickey Minnie behind? As revealed by ''Dream Drop Distance'', '''''she''''' is the one with royal blood; its '''''her''''' castle, so ''of course'' he's going to leave the Queen in charge - leaving her behind also keeps her safe.
26th Jul '16 1:01:41 PM JamesSwann
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to:

* Why does Mickey just run off and leave Mickey behind? As revealed by ''Dream Drop Distance'', '''''she''''' is the one with royal blood; its '''''her''''' castle, so ''of course'' he's going to leave the Queen in charge - leaving her behind also keeps her safe.
26th Jul '16 12:24:26 PM vh1660924
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to:

* Why is Xigbar of all people number II in the Organization, when that position could easily belong to either Saix or anyone else? [[spoiler:Because before they became Nobodies, it turns out Braig and Xehanort (Xigbar and Xemnas' completed beings) had known each other before anyone else in Organization XIII, and had secretly planned the whole events of the series together.]]
24th Jul '16 6:31:42 PM omegafire17
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to:

* Upon defeat, Xemnas' last words are 'Keyblade'. After the events of Birth by Sleep, [[spoiler:you realize he's ''really'' referring to the X-Blade, who's pronunciation is exactly the same]].
9th Jul '16 2:04:38 AM immortalfrieza
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Added DiffLines:

** It's most clearly shown when he finally finds Riku at The World That Never Was, but Sora is VERY close to breaking during KH2. Sora collapses in relief when he finds Riku, nearly breaking down crying after all he had to do to reach that moment. Sora has not only had enough of this crap by now, but he's being constantly jerked around by anyone and everyone, particularly the Organization. Unlike most of the previous villains who were concerned about simply getting him out of their way but otherwise don't care about him, Organization 13 goes out of their way to personally antagonize Sora in order to manipulate him for their plans, so it's understandable Sora would hold a grudge against them.
25th Jun '16 11:45:02 AM Allronix
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* The trio's armoring in the Space Paranoids level is even ''more'' brilliant once you take into account the ExpandedUniverse for the ''Film/{{Tron}}'' universe. Sora and Goofy are armored like game fighters, but Donald's caftan and skullcap are closer to a Tower Guardian (priest) attire - a perfect for for his mage class. Also, in-universe, their TronLines (both color and patterns) would mark them as User-Believers (or Users) from the Encom System, which would also be a big signal to Tron that they were on his side.

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* The trio's armoring in the Space Paranoids level is even ''more'' brilliant once you take into account the ExpandedUniverse for the ''Film/{{Tron}}'' universe. ''Film/{{Tron}}''. Sora and Goofy are armored like game fighters, but Donald's caftan and skullcap are closer to a Tower Guardian (priest) attire - a perfect for for his mage class. Also, in-universe, their TronLines (both color and patterns) would mark them as User-Believers (or Users) from the Encom System, which would also be a big signal to Tron that they were on his side.
25th Jun '16 11:43:26 AM Allronix
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to:

* The trio's armoring in the Space Paranoids level is even ''more'' brilliant once you take into account the ExpandedUniverse for the ''Film/{{Tron}}'' universe. Sora and Goofy are armored like game fighters, but Donald's caftan and skullcap are closer to a Tower Guardian (priest) attire - a perfect for for his mage class. Also, in-universe, their TronLines (both color and patterns) would mark them as User-Believers (or Users) from the Encom System, which would also be a big signal to Tron that they were on his side.
18th Jun '16 4:37:33 PM Faina-Umbra-Gamma
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* Luxord does have standard time powers. When he "teleports" [[spoiler:Riku, Kairi]], and Goofy out of the room with his cards, they were looking at the surrounding cards. When they got telported back after he was slain, [[YearOutsideHourInside they were still doing the same actions (with the same animations!) as they did before they got booted out.]]

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* Luxord does have standard time powers. When he "teleports" [[spoiler:Riku, Kairi]], Donald, and Goofy out of the room with his cards, they were looking at the surrounding cards. When they got telported back after he was slain, [[YearOutsideHourInside they were still doing the same actions (with the same animations!) as they did before they got booted out.]]



*** In Chain of Memories it could be the fact that Naminé manipulating his memories causes such cognitive dissonance in his mind that it's beginning to render him unbalanced. If you take close notice, he isn't cold and uncompassionate at the beginning of [=KHCoM=], just a bit bewildered. As he begins forgetting things and remembering things he shouldn't remember (the fake memories) the cognitive dissonance grows, and the fact that the fake Naminé memories come in bit by bit, instead of just instantly, causes even more conflict in his mind. The cognitive dissonance and contradictions in his mind render him unbalanced, and the true Fridge Horror of it all? It was Marluxia's plan to render him insane and "bind" his heart (as Vexen says right before his 2nd boss fight) and then make him a puppet to fight Xemnas and take over the Organization. If Naminé didn't put him back, then Sora would eventually have ended up either completely insane, a catatonic mess or both. Also note that his behavior in [=KH2=] (while at times cold, like with the "losing to the curse of the treasure" joke) is not at all like in [=KHCoM=]'s last hours. In the fully-voiced cutscenes from the [=PS2=] version of Chain of Memories it might be more easy to notice due to the fact the old game just has sprites and dialog boxes.

to:

*** In Chain of Memories it could be the fact that Naminé manipulating his memories causes such cognitive dissonance in his mind that it's beginning to render him unbalanced. If you take close notice, he isn't cold and uncompassionate at the beginning of [=KHCoM=], just a bit bewildered. As he begins forgetting things and remembering things he shouldn't remember (the fake memories) the cognitive dissonance grows, and the fact that the fake Naminé memories come in bit by bit, instead of just instantly, causes even more conflict in his mind. The cognitive dissonance and contradictions in his mind render him unbalanced, and the true Fridge Horror of it all? It was Marluxia's plan to render him insane and "bind" his heart (as Vexen says right before his 2nd boss fight) and then make him a puppet to fight Xemnas and take over the Organization. If Naminé didn't put him back, then Sora would eventually have ended up either completely insane, a catatonic mess or both. Also note that his behavior in [=KH2=] (while at times cold, like with the "losing Donald to the curse of the treasure" joke) is not at all like in [=KHCoM=]'s last hours. In the fully-voiced cutscenes from the [=PS2=] version of Chain of Memories it might be more easy to notice due to the fact the old game just has sprites and dialog boxes.



* The restoration percentages bothered me for a while. Namine has been restoring Sora's memories for nigh a year, so why does it seem like she just started? Days reveals the answer: it's 's fault. She had been absorbing Sora's memories, forcing them to reset after Roxas had merged with her and been secured. Of course, now that the memories are coherent, they can be repaired in a single week, rather than several months.

to:

* The restoration percentages bothered me for a while. Namine has been restoring Sora's memories for nigh a year, so why does it seem like she just started? Days reveals the answer: it's 's Xion's fault. She had been absorbing Sora's memories, forcing them to reset after Roxas had merged with her and been secured. Of course, now that the memories are coherent, they can be repaired in a single week, rather than several months.



* Demyx's LetsGetDangerous wasn't just because Sora, , and Goofy brought up the whole lack of a heart thing. It's because of the perceived hypocrisy that ''Roxas'' was telling him that.

to:

* Demyx's LetsGetDangerous wasn't just because Sora, , Donald, and Goofy brought up the whole lack of a heart thing. It's because of the perceived hypocrisy that ''Roxas'' was telling him that.



** On that note, I was puzzled ever since playing ''Kingdom Hearts II'' about why the Organization members kept refering to Sora as Roxas. Then, after playing Days and learning [[spoiler: 's true nature and that she merges with Roxas,]] it seems clear that Sora's appearance in [=KH2=] [[spoiler: varies depending on who is looking at him. Thus, the Organization members are calling him, "Roxas," because when they look at him, they see Roxas.]]

to:

** On that note, I was puzzled ever since playing ''Kingdom Hearts II'' about why the Organization members kept refering to Sora as Roxas. Then, after playing Days and learning [[spoiler: 's Xion's true nature and that she merges with Roxas,]] it seems clear that Sora's appearance in [=KH2=] [[spoiler: varies depending on who is looking at him. Thus, the Organization members are calling him, "Roxas," because when they look at him, they see Roxas.]]



* When I played Kingdom Hearts II, it always bugged me a little bit how much of an IdiotHero Sora was, just driving forward in the plot without barely even considering what Organization XIII was planning. The main reason for this was because of Roxas - during his seven days, as he tried to figure out what was happening around him, he struck me as smarter than Sora, [[spoiler:which didn't make sense, considering he was his Nobody.]] Then I played 358/2 Days, expecting Roxas to stumble over a big secret of the Organization. [[spoiler:Instead, he stumbles around in the dark, completely unaware of his and 's status as [[UnwittingPawn pawns in Xemnas' plans]].]] He doesn't even try to solve the mystery, he's content just to do his work and eat ice cream with his friends. At that point I realized, not only is his thought process ''exactly'' like Sora's, he's a kid that never learned to have the drive and initiative that Sora [[spoiler:and ]] have in spades. Bravo, Nomura. - @/ArcVaranus
* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!

to:

* When I played Kingdom Hearts II, it always bugged me a little bit how much of an IdiotHero Sora was, just driving forward in the plot without barely even considering what Organization XIII was planning. The main reason for this was because of Roxas - during his seven days, as he tried to figure out what was happening around him, he struck me as smarter than Sora, [[spoiler:which didn't make sense, considering he was his Nobody.]] Then I played 358/2 Days, expecting Roxas to stumble over a big secret of the Organization. [[spoiler:Instead, he stumbles around in the dark, completely unaware of his and 's Xion's status as [[UnwittingPawn pawns in Xemnas' plans]].]] He doesn't even try to solve the mystery, he's content just to do his work and eat ice cream with his friends. At that point I realized, not only is his thought process ''exactly'' like Sora's, he's a kid that never learned to have the drive and initiative that Sora [[spoiler:and ]] Xion]] have in spades. Bravo, Nomura. - @/ArcVaranus
* Okay, so apparently in the Birth by Sleep Ultimania, Nomura said that Xemnas may have been able to use the Keyblade, and that it's possible that he was intentionally choosing not to use one in Kingdom Hearts II. At first, that made absolutely no sense to me, since if Xemnas could use a Keyblade, then Roxas and Xon wouldn't have been so important to his goal of completing Kingdom Hearts. But then I thought back to all the things Xemnas said about the power of Nothingness ("Nothingness is eternal!", "Embrace Nothing!" and so forth), and it all came to me! Xemnas obviously believes that Nothingness is the superior force in the universe. But according to Xehanort's Report there are three types of Keyblade (X-blade aside); Keyblades of Light, Keyblades of Darkness, and Keyblades of Heart. None of these seem to represent Nothingness. So, Xemnas chose not to use the Keyblade, instead wielding Ethereal Blades, which better exemplify the power of Nothing. There's also a reason why he never used it even for heart collection... he never needed to! Xemnas definitely seems like the kind of person not to get his hands dirty unless he absolutely has to (notice how he's the only character other than Saïx who never accompanies you on a mission in Days?), and for a long time he had other people to complete Kingdom Hearts for him. For Kingdom Hearts I, he had Sora to collect hearts, and between Kingdom Hearts I and II, he had Roxas and Xion to pull heart collection duty. Even when Roxas and Xion left, Xemnas still didn't need to use the Keyblade himself, because six days later Sora woke up and started killing the Heartless again. This, of course, makes Xemnas even more of a BadAss than he was before, because it means that he is (if I'm not mistaken), the only character so far who actually REJECTED the Keyblade!



** Either that, or this is further proof that programs can leave computer worlds on their own free will [[spoiler: (that's later confirmed with Quorra)]], since Sora, , Goofy and Mickey use a dark portal to leave a computer; thus, they remain pseudo-programs to this day.

to:

** Either that, or this is further proof that programs can leave computer worlds on their own free will [[spoiler: (that's later confirmed with Quorra)]], since Sora, , Donald, Goofy and Mickey use a dark portal to leave a computer; thus, they remain pseudo-programs to this day.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fridge.KingdomHeartsII