History Fridge / Frasier

15th Aug '16 7:50:24 PM DrOO7
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* In "Room Full Of Heroes", while imitating Martin (who he's dressed as), Niles goes on and on about how "he" considers his sons "failures and disappointments". Yet he came to the party dressed as him. So despite genuinely believing that his father thinks he's a failure, Niles still considers him his hero. Very akin to an abuse victim still desperate for the love and approval of their abuser.
27th Nov '15 5:42:14 PM nombretomado
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* Rather unfortunate accidental shout-out -- Hester Crane cheated on Martin. She happens to share a name with one of the most famous female adulterers in literature: Hester Prynne of ''TheScarletLetter''.

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* Rather unfortunate accidental shout-out -- Hester Crane cheated on Martin. She happens to share a name with one of the most famous female adulterers in literature: Hester Prynne of ''TheScarletLetter''.''Literature/TheScarletLetter''.
5th Nov '15 12:07:13 AM Protectronics
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* Something I dismissed as CharacterizationMarchesOn was Martin's characterization as a grumpy, bitter, insecure old HasBeen in season 1, whereas he was later characterized as terminally cheerful, flippant and deadpan, and unwilling to let anything rattle him. Later, it occurred to me that this later characterization was probably his "original" personality all along — his demeanor in season 1 could easily be explained away as temporary depression due to his career-ending injury.
** It's shown via flashback that he's actually pretty depressed before he gets shot, because he feels abandoned by his children. So Frasier's return and getting to live with him and Daphne may have softened him because it was like having a family again.
*** The death of his wife also probably didn't help with matters; she's suggested to have died not too long before the series starts. So, a dead wife, distant sons, a career-ending injury leaving him dependent on a walking cane and live-in care; really, is it any ''wonder'' Martin was a bit pissed off back then?

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* Something I dismissed as CharacterizationMarchesOn was Martin's characterization as a grumpy, bitter, insecure old HasBeen in season 1, whereas he was later characterized as terminally cheerful, flippant and deadpan, and unwilling to let anything rattle him. Later, it occurred to me that this later characterization was probably his "original" personality all along — his demeanor in season 1 could easily be explained away as temporary depression due to his career-ending injury.
** It's shown via flashback that he's actually pretty depressed before he gets shot, because he feels abandoned by
injury, on top of being bitter over his children. So Frasier's return and getting to live with him and Daphne may have softened him because it was like having a family again.
*** The death of his
recently deceased wife also probably didn't help with matters; she's suggested to have died not too long before the series starts. So, a dead wife, and distant sons, a career-ending injury leaving him dependent on a walking cane and live-in care; really, is it any ''wonder'' Martin was a bit pissed off back then?sons.



* In ''The Two-Hundredth Episode'', the plot is this; Frasier is missing one of his early aircheck tapes. He is apparently obsessed with collecting all of his own tapes (common enough for people working in radio). Daphne admits she damaged the tape accidentally. Frasier announces on the air that if anyone happens to have this missing tape, they should call the station. So a man named Tom calls in, and Frasier and Niles head to his apartment. Turns out that Tom is ''obsessed'' with Frasier, replacing his entire Seattle skyline window with his pictures, having quit his job so he wouldn't miss the show (becoming a doorman instead) and having every single one of Frasier's shows on tape. Frasier tries to subtly break it to him that his life could have much more to it. He doesn't get the message, and Frasier and Niles leave, Tom being ecstatic due to meeting his idol. At home, when Daphne and his dad (I forget his name) ask if he got the tape, Frasier says he decided to let Tom keep the tape, as he has [[TearJerker "seen an example tonight of how an obsession can take over someones life."]] Two FridgeHorror examples jump to mind; the first, Frasier didn't help him. He'll spend the rest of his life, obsessed. The second, the finale revolves around [[spoiler:Frasier completing his last show.]] [[NothingIsScarier Imagine what Tom will do now.]]
** Well, if Frasier took that job in San Francisco, or got a show in Chicago (where Charolette lives), Tom would probably follow Frasier there.
*** He wouldn't even have to move; he could listen and record the show online, provided Frasier's new station had a live stream (quite possible in 2004).
** Or the guy just got over it at some point, or got treatment, or moved on to something else.

to:

* In ''The Two-Hundredth Episode'', the plot is this; Frasier is missing one of his early aircheck tapes. He is apparently obsessed with collecting all of his own tapes (common enough for people working in radio). Daphne admits she damaged the tape accidentally. Frasier announces on the air that if anyone happens to have this missing tape, they should call the station. So a man named Tom calls in, and Frasier and Niles head to his apartment. Turns out that Tom is ''obsessed'' with Frasier, replacing his entire Seattle skyline window with his pictures, having quit his job so he wouldn't miss the show (becoming a doorman instead) and having every single one of Frasier's shows on tape. Frasier tries to subtly break it to him that his life could have much more to it. He doesn't get the message, and Frasier and Niles leave, Tom being ecstatic due to meeting his idol. At home, when Daphne and his dad (I forget his name) ask if he got the tape, Frasier says he decided to let Tom keep the tape, as he has [[TearJerker "seen an example tonight of how an obsession can take over someones life."]] Two FridgeHorror examples jump to mind; the first, Frasier didn't help him. He'll spend the rest of his life, obsessed. The second, the finale revolves around [[spoiler:Frasier completing his last show.]] [[NothingIsScarier Imagine what Hopefully Tom will do now.]]
** Well, if Frasier took that job in San Francisco, or got a show in Chicago (where Charolette lives), Tom would probably follow Frasier there.
*** He wouldn't even have to move; he could listen and record the show online, provided Frasier's new station had a live stream (quite possible in 2004).
** Or the guy just got over it at some point, or got treatment, or
has moved on by then, because otherwise he's sure going to something else.
have a rough time.



* No matter what your feelings are about Julia, it is worth noting that two medical doctors, a healthcare worker, and a retired police officer all stood still and did nothing while a woman was choking. Played for laughs, but still speaks volumes about who they really are.
** As the conversation following the incident pretty much made clear, they all thought she was making sarcastic choking noises. Considering how much of a {{Jerkass}} she'd been, it's an understandable assumption--even Frasier admitted to it.
* In addition to Martin and Frasier's InUniverse Fridge Horror in "Dial M for Martin" that Niles may be subconsciously trying to hurt his father, the end of the episode can be interpreted as implying that Daphne wants to stay in the Crane household so much that she unconsciously kicked away Martin's cane just as Niles may have done earlier. If Frasier's theory is correct, then that means she's subconsciously willing to ''harm a patient'' to satisfy her own emotional needs. Now consider that she specializes in providing live-in help to the elderly and infirm, and that she's also spent decades repressing a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood….

to:

* No matter what your feelings are about Julia, it is worth noting that two medical doctors, a healthcare worker, and a retired police officer all stood still and did nothing while a woman was choking. Played for laughs, and it's indicated they thought she was making sarcastic choking noises, but if any of them thought it was serious and still didn't move speaks volumes about who they really are.
** As the conversation following the incident pretty much made clear, they all thought she was making sarcastic choking noises. Considering how much of a {{Jerkass}} she'd been, it's an understandable assumption--even Frasier admitted to it.
* In addition to Martin and Frasier's InUniverse Fridge Horror in "Dial M for Martin" that Niles may be subconsciously trying to hurt his father, the end of the episode can be interpreted as implying that Daphne wants to stay in the Crane household so much that she unconsciously kicked away Martin's cane just as Niles may have done earlier. If Frasier's theory is correct, then that means she's subconsciously willing to ''harm a patient'' to satisfy her own emotional needs. Now consider that she specializes in providing live-in help to the elderly and infirm, and that she's also spent decades repressing a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood….
HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood, and that she's apparently lost more patients than she could count...



* Martin is disappointed that his sons ended up as snobbish, effete sophisticates. However, with PropheticNames like "Frasier" and "Niles," what else could they possibly have become? It's like naming your son "Thrungnir the Bold," then being surprised when he grows up to be a BarbarianHero.
** He presumably let his wife name them (especially given she named them after her lab rats), along with most of their upbringing. If anything, it's surprising he doesn't see them more as [[SomeoneToRememberHimBy Someones To Remember Her By]].
*** A first season episode has him [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech point out]] that their mother was a [[WomenAreWiser much more down-to-earth person]] who was very welcoming and didn't sneer at "lower-class" tastes. Martin's disappointment comes from how they ''don't'' take after her more than how they do.
---> "All right, that's it. I've had enough of you two jackasses. I've spent all night hearing you make cracks about the food and the help. I got news for you. People like this place. I like this place. And when you insult this restaurant, you insult me. You know, I used to think you two took after your mother, liking ballet and all that. But your mother liked a good ball game too. She even ate a hot dog once in a while. She might have had fancy taste, but she had too much class to make me or anyone else ever feel second rate. If she saw the way you two behaved tonight she would be ashamed. I know I am."
** The show often hints that Martin doesn't place a lot of stock in Psychology- a better question might be how or why he managed to marry a psychologist given his thoughts on the profession.
*** She was doing police forensics at the time. They fell in love over chalk outlines over murder victims.
*** It may be that he doesn't put much stock in ''Freudian'' psychology, and just doesn't bother to verbally differentiate between that and the more scientific school of thought Hester followed.
*** Except that Hester would have been trained and educated in psychoanalytical thought, seeing as she probably trained in the fifties.
*** It's explicitly stated that she did experiments with lab rats, which is largely behavioral.
*** You don't have to share someone's vocational passions to fall in love with and marry them.
* An in-universe example. When Martin was disappointed that Frasier and Niles weren't crazy about Sherry, he somberly said to the brothers that they should like her because he chose her, and that should be good enough for them. The boys stand there looking guilty for a few seconds, until Frasier realizes (and gloriously throws back) that Martin never made one ounce of effort to like or tolerate any of his or Niles' paramours. Could be a subversion if that occurred to the viewer before Frasier said it.
** True, but we never hear about Martin trying to get Frasier to divorce Lillith or Niles to divorce Maris until things were beyond help (their cheating on the brothers). He even told Niles several times to try and work things out with Maris. Yet Frasier and Niles spent much of their time trying to get rid of Sherry. Martin may not approve of the boys' love lives, but he stays out of their affairs.
* One episode makes much humour out of Frasier being continually confused by a caller with a French accent referring to her 'monsieur'. Frasier? The fluent French speaker? Even if he weren't, most educated people would recognise monsieur if not much else.
** Not sure how the above functions as Fridge Logic, but it appears to be poking fun at Frasier's French abilities; he's snooty enough that anyone with the "wrong" accent would be unintelligible to him.
* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, shouldn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?
** Some psychiatric doctors (at the time, anyway) believed that some of the more violent antisocial behaviors in psychopaths and sociopaths isn't a direct lack of morality so much as ''having'' an understanding of morally correct behavior and conscience, but not actually holding them as having any value to them personally. He's one of them.

to:

* %%* Martin is disappointed that his sons ended up as snobbish, effete sophisticates. However, with PropheticNames like "Frasier" and "Niles," what else could they possibly have become? It's like naming your son "Thrungnir the Bold," then being surprised when he grows up to be a BarbarianHero.
** %%** He presumably let his wife name them (especially given she named them after her lab rats), along with most of their upbringing. If anything, it's surprising he doesn't see them more as [[SomeoneToRememberHimBy Someones To Remember Her By]].
*** %%*** A first season episode has him [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech point out]] that their mother was a [[WomenAreWiser much more down-to-earth person]] who was very welcoming and didn't sneer at "lower-class" tastes. Martin's disappointment comes from how they ''don't'' take after her more than how they do.
---> %%---> "All right, that's it. I've had enough of you two jackasses. I've spent all night hearing you make cracks about the food and the help. I got news for you. People like this place. I like this place. And when you insult this restaurant, you insult me. You know, I used to think you two took after your mother, liking ballet and all that. But your mother liked a good ball game too. She even ate a hot dog once in a while. She might have had fancy taste, but she had too much class to make me or anyone else ever feel second rate. If she saw the way you two behaved tonight she would be ashamed. I know I am."
** %%** The show often hints that Martin doesn't place a lot of stock in Psychology- a better question might be how or why he managed to marry a psychologist given his thoughts on the profession.
*** %%*** She was doing police forensics at the time. They fell in love over chalk outlines over murder victims.
*** %%*** It may be that he doesn't put much stock in ''Freudian'' psychology, and just doesn't bother to verbally differentiate between that and the more scientific school of thought Hester followed.
*** %%*** Except that Hester would have been trained and educated in psychoanalytical thought, seeing as she probably trained in the fifties.
*** %%*** It's explicitly stated that she did experiments with lab rats, which is largely behavioral.
*** %%*** You don't have to share someone's vocational passions to fall in love with and marry them.
* An in-universe example. When Martin was disappointed that Frasier and Niles weren't crazy about Sherry, he somberly said to the brothers that they should like her because he chose her, and that should be good enough for them. The boys stand there looking guilty for a few seconds, until Frasier realizes (and gloriously throws back) that Martin never made one ounce of effort to like or tolerate any of his or Niles' paramours. Could be a subversion an out of universe version too if that occurred to the viewer before Frasier said it.
** True, but we never hear about Martin trying to get Frasier to divorce Lillith or Niles to divorce Maris until things were beyond help (their cheating on the brothers). He even told Niles several times to try and work things out with Maris. Yet Frasier and Niles spent much of their time trying to get rid of Sherry. Martin may not approve of the boys' love lives, but he stays out of their affairs.
*
%%* One episode makes much humour out of Frasier being continually confused by a caller with a French accent referring to her 'monsieur'. Frasier? The fluent French speaker? Even if he weren't, most educated people would recognise monsieur if not much else.
** %%** Not sure how the above functions as Fridge Logic, but it appears to be poking fun at Frasier's French abilities; he's snooty enough that anyone with the "wrong" accent would be unintelligible to him.
* %%* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, shouldn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?
** %%** Some psychiatric doctors (at the time, anyway) believed that some of the more violent antisocial behaviors in psychopaths and sociopaths isn't a direct lack of morality so much as ''having'' an understanding of morally correct behavior and conscience, but not actually holding them as having any value to them personally. He's one of them.
13th Oct '15 9:19:41 PM DrOO7
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to:

* Maris' unseen copious weight gain, revealed to be because she's a BigEater when she gets stressed. Suddenly, all the previous references to her downright psychotic obsession with staying thin make a lot of sense and actually add some HiddenDepths to an otherwise {{Jerkass}} character--it's possible she was overweight as a child and is terrified of being so again.



* No matter what your feelings are about Julia, it is worth noting that a medical doctor, a healthcare worker, and a retired police officer all stood still and did nothing while a woman was choking. Played for laughs, but still speaks volumes about who they really are.

to:

* No matter what your feelings are about Julia, it is worth noting that a two medical doctor, doctors, a healthcare worker, and a retired police officer all stood still and did nothing while a woman was choking. Played for laughs, but still speaks volumes about who they really are.



--->Oh right, that's it. I've had enough of you two jackasses. I've spent all night hearing you make cracks about the food and the help. I got news for you. People like this place. I like this place. And when you insult this restaurant, you insult me. You know, I used to think you two took after your mother, liking ballet and all that. But your mother liked a good ball game too. She even ate a hot dog once in a while. She might have had fancy taste, but she had too much class to make me or anyone else ever feel second rate. If she saw the way you two behaved tonight she would be ashamed. I know I am.

to:

--->Oh ---> "All right, that's it. I've had enough of you two jackasses. I've spent all night hearing you make cracks about the food and the help. I got news for you. People like this place. I like this place. And when you insult this restaurant, you insult me. You know, I used to think you two took after your mother, liking ballet and all that. But your mother liked a good ball game too. She even ate a hot dog once in a while. She might have had fancy taste, but she had too much class to make me or anyone else ever feel second rate. If she saw the way you two behaved tonight she would be ashamed. I know I am. "
9th Oct '15 12:40:28 PM shamblingdead2
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Added DiffLines:

** Not sure how the above functions as Fridge Logic, but it appears to be poking fun at Frasier's French abilities; he's snooty enough that anyone with the "wrong" accent would be unintelligible to him.
27th Sep '15 11:01:08 AM lorgskyegon
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Added DiffLines:

** True, but we never hear about Martin trying to get Frasier to divorce Lillith or Niles to divorce Maris until things were beyond help (their cheating on the brothers). He even told Niles several times to try and work things out with Maris. Yet Frasier and Niles spent much of their time trying to get rid of Sherry. Martin may not approve of the boys' love lives, but he stays out of their affairs.
24th Sep '15 7:17:03 PM PurpleAlert
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* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, shouldn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?

to:

* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, shouldn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?is?
** Some psychiatric doctors (at the time, anyway) believed that some of the more violent antisocial behaviors in psychopaths and sociopaths isn't a direct lack of morality so much as ''having'' an understanding of morally correct behavior and conscience, but not actually holding them as having any value to them personally. He's one of them.
12th Sep '15 10:14:49 AM CaptEquinox
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* In ''The Two-Hundredth Episode'', the plot is this; Frasier is missing one of his early tapes. He is apparently obsessed with collecting all of his own tapes. Daphne admits she damaged the tape accidentally. Frasier announces on the air that if anyone happens to have this missing tape, they should call the station. So a man named Tom calls in, and Frasier and Niles head to his apartment. Turns out that Tom is ''obsessed'' with Frasier, replacing his entire Seattle skyline window with his pictures, having quit his job so he wouldn't miss the show (becoming a doorman instead) and having every single one of Frasier's shows on tape. Frasier tries to subtly break it to him that his life could have much more to it. He doesn't get the message, and Frasier and Niles leave, Tom being eccentric due to meeting his idol. At home, when Daphne and his dad (I forget his name) ask if he got the tape, Frasier says he decided to let Tom keep the tape, as he has [[TearJerker "seen an example tonight of how an obsession can take over someones life."]] Two FridgeHorror examples jump to mind; the first, Frasier didn't help him. He'll spend the rest of his life, obsessed. The second, the finale revolves around [[spoiler:Frasier completing his last show.]] [[NothingIsScarier Imagine what Tom will do now.]]

to:

* In ''The Two-Hundredth Episode'', the plot is this; Frasier is missing one of his early aircheck tapes. He is apparently obsessed with collecting all of his own tapes.tapes (common enough for people working in radio). Daphne admits she damaged the tape accidentally. Frasier announces on the air that if anyone happens to have this missing tape, they should call the station. So a man named Tom calls in, and Frasier and Niles head to his apartment. Turns out that Tom is ''obsessed'' with Frasier, replacing his entire Seattle skyline window with his pictures, having quit his job so he wouldn't miss the show (becoming a doorman instead) and having every single one of Frasier's shows on tape. Frasier tries to subtly break it to him that his life could have much more to it. He doesn't get the message, and Frasier and Niles leave, Tom being eccentric ecstatic due to meeting his idol. At home, when Daphne and his dad (I forget his name) ask if he got the tape, Frasier says he decided to let Tom keep the tape, as he has [[TearJerker "seen an example tonight of how an obsession can take over someones life."]] Two FridgeHorror examples jump to mind; the first, Frasier didn't help him. He'll spend the rest of his life, obsessed. The second, the finale revolves around [[spoiler:Frasier completing his last show.]] [[NothingIsScarier Imagine what Tom will do now.]]


Added DiffLines:

*** He wouldn't even have to move; he could listen and record the show online, provided Frasier's new station had a live stream (quite possible in 2004).


Added DiffLines:

25th Jul '15 5:01:18 PM BoostPressure
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* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, doesn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?

to:

* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, doesn't shouldn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?
25th Jul '15 4:00:34 PM BoostPressure
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* One episode makes much humour out of Frasier being continually confused by a caller with a French accent referring to her 'monsieur'. Frasier? The fluent French speaker? Even if he weren't, most educated people would recognise monsieur if not much else.

to:

* One episode makes much humour out of Frasier being continually confused by a caller with a French accent referring to her 'monsieur'. Frasier? The fluent French speaker? Even if he weren't, most educated people would recognise monsieur if not much else.else.
* In "Bad Dog", the plot is driven by Frasier's refusal to believe that a person with no moral conscience whatsoever can possibly exist. With all his training and experience, doesn't Frasier know what a sociopath is?
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