History Fridge / FinalFantasyXII

24th Apr '16 10:18:13 PM NickTheSwing
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* We know that Final Fantasy Tactics comes after Final Fantasy XII. We also know this means most of the other sentient races go extinct and humanity loses airship technology. We ''also'' know that Bhujerba is a continent floating in the sky reachable only by airship. When humanity loses the ability to make use of airships and the mining on Bhjerba was already getting at the material keeping them up there...[[ColonyDrop what]] ''[[EverybodysDeadDave happens]]'' [[NoEndorHolocaust to]] Bhujerba?
23rd Jan '16 6:23:44 AM frogwidget
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* Listen again to Vayne Solidor's introductory speech to Dalmasca. It's full of obvious Narm but the line that sticks out is "Here I will pay my debt! I swear it now!" [[spoiler: By the end of the game the Archadian Senate is dissolved leaving Larsa and Vayne in a position of absolute power, Larsa and Al-Cid are in positions to broker for peace between the empires, the Sun-Cryst is destroyed and Vayne dies against the party over Dalmasca in a battle that severely hinders the Archadian military. Whether intentionally or by a hell of a coincidence, Vayne fulfills his promise.]]
22nd Dec '15 9:00:13 PM Gingerkitteh
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*** What exactly are you handing over when you spend License Points? Evidence that you've been performing community service such as destroying creatures that would normally threaten the general populace. In return, you're actually ''being trained'' in the correct use of the items / skills the License applies to! How else would you know how to cast that Blizzard spell you just bought? To an untrained person, it would appear to be gibberish or they wouldn't know the proper method for accessing their MP reserves for the various spells. For instance, converting MP into ice would be quite a different process to converting it into fire, with possibly disastrous consequences for those lacking the training but trying anyway.
22nd Dec '15 8:41:12 PM Gingerkitteh
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*** Equally, the Occuria may have realised this fact about Vaan, which may have been what prompted them to send him images of Reks. Keep in mind that he and Ashe weren't the only ones hurt by the Empire. The Occuria might have sent him images to keep him from thinking clearly. Arguably, they may have been able to project images towards ''anyone'' who felt strongly enough against the Empire. Regardless, I agree that Vaan's presence certainly influenced Ashe by the end - remember how he refuses to kill Gabranth in retribution for Reks? In response to this note, I've personally put up Vaan as the Most Triumphant Example for Spaner in the Works, as well as an entry for FFXII in that same page. In light of these revelations, Vaan's Character Derailment in later games is certainly tragic. - CaellachTigerEye

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*** Equally, the Occuria may have realised this fact about Vaan, which may have been what prompted them to send him images of Reks. Keep in mind that he and Ashe weren't the only ones hurt by the Empire. The Occuria might have sent him images to keep him from thinking clearly. Arguably, they may have been able to project images towards ''anyone'' who felt strongly enough against the Empire. Regardless, I agree that Vaan's presence certainly influenced Ashe by the end - remember how he refuses to kill Gabranth in retribution for Reks? In response to this note, I've personally put up Vaan as the Most Triumphant Example for Spaner Spanner in the Works, as well as an entry for FFXII in that same page. In light of these revelations, Vaan's Character Derailment in later games is certainly tragic. - CaellachTigerEye
22nd Dec '15 8:37:14 PM Gingerkitteh
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** The Ink stain that we see right next to the judge on the logo? This is ''Venat'' people: they showed us the BigBad is hidden in plain side: s/he is the first thing you see when you begin to play. -Nixou-

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** The Ink stain that we see right next to the judge on the logo? This is ''Venat'' people: they showed us the BigBad is hidden in plain side: sight: s/he is the first thing you see when you begin to play. -Nixou-
7th Dec '15 8:15:45 PM karategal
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* FridgeBrilliance: The crashing of the hoverbike - at first seemingly a random plot device, but careful consideration leads to the first hint of the nethicite's nature.
* FridgeBrilliance: FFT actually shows how Vayne's and Venat's wishes have been fulfilled. People have said that because Ashe and co. ended the Occuria's control on history, it has caused the decline of magic, the rise of St. Ajora's ignorant religion and allowed the Lucavi to eventually attempt to cause the world's destruction; but this isnít the only thing it did: it also was what allowed Ramaza to do his actions in the first place. Ramza, a mortal, without the help of the Occuria or other gods, is able to change history on his own because Ashe and the rest ended the control of the Occuria on humanity. The whole story of ''FFT'' in relation to ''FF12'' shows how the reign of history has been put back into the hands of man.

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* FridgeBrilliance: The crashing of the hoverbike - -- at first seemingly a random plot device, but careful consideration leads to the first hint of the nethicite's nature.
* FridgeBrilliance: FFT actually shows how Vayne's and Venat's wishes have been fulfilled. People have said that because Ashe and co. ended the Occuria's control on history, it has caused the decline of magic, the rise of St. Ajora's ignorant religion and allowed the Lucavi to eventually attempt to cause the world's destruction; but this isnít the only thing it did: it also was what allowed Ramaza to do his actions in the first place. Ramza, a mortal, without the help of the Occuria or other gods, is able to change history on his own because Ashe and the rest ended the control of the Occuria on humanity. The whole story of ''FFT'' in relation to ''FF12'' ''[=FF12=]'' shows how the reign of history has been put back into the hands of man.
7th Dec '15 8:14:17 PM karategal
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**** Speaking of revenge: the events at the end of the Pharos are actually the absolute ideological triumph for Venat. Why? Because of the seven characters, 6 (all but Fran) have personal reasons to hate Archadia, and the Sun Crist gives them the mean to have their revenge. Cid and Gabranth are defeated, the Occurias are watching and would most certainly stop Venat for directly stopping Ashe & co, so nothing is stopping them for taking new nethicites and blowing up Archades especially considering the fact that the Sun Crist was used to power up the Bahamut even gives them the excuse of using the [[WeaponOfMassDestruction Magicites of Mass Destruction]] against Archadia as "legitimate defense". And yet they ''refuse'' to do so. Think about it: the Occurias' postulate is that the Humes are unable to go beyond their base instincts and need Gods' gidding hand. And here, Humes who have more than enough reasons to use violence against Archadia deliberately choose compassion. At this point [[AntiVillain Venat]] has won: s/he was right about the Hume: the ideological conflict between the Rogue Occuria and its kin end up in the absolute victory of Venat. -Nixou-
*** Finally, there is one thing that often missed about the game. Some players have complained that the main characters did not take part in the most "interesting" parts of the story: there are epic battles and political maneuvering, but Ashe & co are wandering the countryside and are seldom linked with the "heavy" stuff. But this is the whole point of the story: most of what the main characters do will be regarded as insignificant by historians, but it is these apparently insignificant deeds that will have changed the tide of history. Now, an important point of the plot of VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics and VagrantStory was that events recorded in historical chronicles (like battles, the rise of kings and emperors, etc...) are not always as important as you would believe. There is a good chance that Ashe will be remembered for infiltrating the Bahamut and killing Vayne, an impressive feat, yes, but the really relevant deed -refusing to avenge her husband and her kingdom and destroying the Sun Crist- will probably be neglected by historians and eventually forgotten. Basically, this means that the games of the Ivalice verse share a common Aesop. Damn, [[SoCoolItsAwesome this game is deep]] -Nixou-

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**** Speaking of revenge: the events at the end of the Pharos are actually the absolute ideological triumph for Venat. Why? Because of the seven characters, 6 six (all but Fran) have personal reasons to hate Archadia, and the Sun Crist Cryst gives them the mean means to have their revenge. Cid and Gabranth are defeated, the Occurias Occuria are watching and would most certainly stop Venat for directly stopping Ashe & co, so nothing is stopping them for from taking new nethicites and blowing up Archades Archades, especially considering the fact that the Sun Crist Cryst was used to power up the Bahamut ''Bahamut'' and even gives them the excuse of using the [[WeaponOfMassDestruction Magicites of Mass Destruction]] against Archadia as "legitimate defense". And yet they ''refuse'' to do so. Think about it: the Occurias' Occuria's postulate is that the Humes are unable to go beyond their base instincts and need Gods' gidding guiding hand. And here, Humes who have more than enough reasons to use violence against Archadia deliberately choose compassion. At this point point, [[AntiVillain Venat]] has won: s/he was right about the Hume: the ideological conflict between the Rogue Occuria and its kin end up in the absolute victory of Venat. -Nixou-
*** Finally, there is one thing that often missed about the game. Some players have complained that the main characters did not take part in the most "interesting" parts of the story: there are epic battles and political maneuvering, but Ashe & co are wandering the countryside and are seldom linked with the "heavy" stuff. But this is the whole point of the story: most of what the main characters do will be regarded as insignificant by historians, but it is these apparently insignificant deeds that will have changed the tide of history. Now, an important point of the plot of VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' and VagrantStory ''VagrantStory'' was that events recorded in historical chronicles (like battles, the rise of kings and emperors, etc...) are not always as important as you would believe. There is a good chance that Ashe will be remembered for infiltrating the Bahamut ''Bahamut'' and killing Vayne, an impressive feat, yes, but the really relevant deed -refusing -- refusing to avenge her husband and her kingdom and destroying the Sun Crist- Cryst -- will probably be neglected by historians and eventually forgotten. Basically, this means that the games of the Ivalice verse share a common Aesop. Damn, [[SoCoolItsAwesome this game is deep]] deep]]. -Nixou-



* FridgeBrilliance: FFT actually shows how Vayne's and Venat's wishes have been fulfilled. People have said that because Ashe and co. ended the Occuria's control on history, it has caused the decline of magic, the rise of St. Ajora's ignorant religion and allowed the Lucavi to eventually attempt to cause the world's destruction; but this isnít the only thing it did: it also was what allowed Ramaza to do his actions in the first place. Ramza, a mortal, without the help of the Occuria or other gods, is able to change history on his own because Ashe and the rest ended the control of the Occuria on humanity. The whole story of FFT in relation to FF12 shows how the reign of history has been put back into the hands of man.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: FFT actually shows how Vayne's and Venat's wishes have been fulfilled. People have said that because Ashe and co. ended the Occuria's control on history, it has caused the decline of magic, the rise of St. Ajora's ignorant religion and allowed the Lucavi to eventually attempt to cause the world's destruction; but this isnít the only thing it did: it also was what allowed Ramaza to do his actions in the first place. Ramza, a mortal, without the help of the Occuria or other gods, is able to change history on his own because Ashe and the rest ended the control of the Occuria on humanity. The whole story of FFT ''FFT'' in relation to FF12 ''FF12'' shows how the reign of history has been put back into the hands of man.



*** The Occuria rule is akin to a colonial empire, but with a different sense of scale compared to real world colonial empires: instead of directly controlling the Hume masses, they rule throught proxies, showing no interest whatsoever to the day to day administration of their domain. Plus, they are immortal beings: for them, the eight centuries between Raithwall's rule and Ashe's birth might seem like a short period: while from a mortal perspective being inactive for 800 years might seem like impotance, the Occuria might very well think that giving a few magic nukes to a pawn every 800 years is akin to strengthening their cattle pinfold every now and then, with the world being on the verge of a global war between two continental empires being from the Occuria's perspective nothing more than the cattle acting up a little. Venat's approach is much more direct because the Occuria technology is so much more advanced that they can keep on producing invincible figureheads to do their biding, unless someone either destroys their tools for control, or build weapons which matches the Occurias. The Occurias want to keep on subtly controling the mortal races forever, while Venat's goal is to destroy their invisible rule before [[ButNowIMustGo leaving the stage]].

* The License Board seemed like GameplayAndStorySegregation before you realized that this is ''Ivalice'' - the world is built around law. The licenses are actually the Medieval equivalent of permits today. Makes a lot of sense that they would request you to have a license for using a certain kind of weapon or magick, not only to keep the public from planning a Coup de'tat but also because irresponsible use of weapons or magicks would wind up hurting you. This doesn't make ''as'' much sense for stuff like armour, except for ''maybe'' heavy armour meant for battle.

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*** The Occuria rule is akin to a colonial empire, but with a different sense of scale compared to real world colonial empires: instead of directly controlling the Hume masses, they rule throught through proxies, showing no interest whatsoever to the day to day administration of their domain. Plus, they are immortal beings: for them, the eight centuries between Raithwall's rule and Ashe's birth might seem like a short period: while from a mortal perspective being inactive for 800 years might seem like impotance, impotence, the Occuria might very well think that giving a few magic nukes to a pawn every 800 years is akin to strengthening their cattle pinfold every now and then, with the world being on the verge of a global war between two continental empires being from the Occuria's perspective nothing more than the cattle acting up a little. Venat's approach is much more direct because the Occuria technology is so much more advanced that they can keep on producing invincible figureheads to do their biding, unless someone either destroys their tools for control, or build weapons which matches the Occurias. Occuria's. The Occurias Occuria want to keep on subtly controling controlling the mortal races forever, while Venat's goal is to destroy their invisible rule before [[ButNowIMustGo leaving the stage]].

stage]].
* The License Board seemed like GameplayAndStorySegregation before you realized that this is ''Ivalice'' - -- the world is built around law. The licenses are actually the Medieval equivalent of permits today. Makes a lot of sense that they would request you to have a license for using a certain kind of weapon or magick, not only to keep the public from planning a Coup de'tat but also because irresponsible use of weapons or magicks would wind up hurting you. This doesn't make ''as'' much sense for stuff like armour, except for ''maybe'' heavy armour meant for battle.




* Basch is one of the better melee fighters of the party, but has a curiously low Vitality stat? Why? Well he's only recently finished a very long stint in prison - solitary confinement, at that. It's a wonder he can even fight.

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\n* Basch is one of the better melee fighters of the party, but has a curiously low Vitality stat? Why? Well Well, he's only recently finished a very long stint in prison - -- solitary confinement, at that. It's a wonder he can even fight.



** Also prison kind of explains why he joins the party with 0 MP - not only is he pretty much destroyed physically and mentally, but it's hard to run around to charge your MP up when you're dangling from shackles over a deep pit.

* Talking to [=NPCs=] around Rabanastre at the start of the game made me wonder how Vaan's never been arrested before, given how many people seem to know about his less lawful activities. And sure, most citizens have been driven to poverty by the Empire, but wow, how many thieves and pickpockets does this city have? Then I realized that you can't talk to ''all'' the [=NPCs=] for a reason - Vaan's just approaching the ones he knows, or (in other towns and such) the ones he thinks would be friendly. Of course the Rabanastrans he speaks to on a regular basis are gonna talk shop with him!

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** Also Also, prison kind of explains why he joins the party with 0 MP - -- not only is he pretty much destroyed physically and mentally, but it's hard to run around to charge your MP up when you're dangling from shackles over a deep pit.

pit.
* Talking to [=NPCs=] around Rabanastre at the start of the game made me wonder how Vaan's never been arrested before, given how many people seem to know about his less lawful activities. And sure, most citizens have been driven to poverty by the Empire, but wow, how many thieves and pickpockets does this city have? Then I realized that you can't talk to ''all'' the [=NPCs=] for a reason - -- Vaan's just approaching the ones he knows, or (in other towns and such) the ones he thinks would be friendly. Of course course, the Rabanastrans he speaks to on a regular basis are gonna talk shop with him!



* Near the end of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII'', the party [[spoiler:destroy the [[MineralMacGuffin Sun Cryst]] thereby breaking the control the Occuria have over mankind.]] That's sounds good at first but then consider ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' which takes place far into the future of Ivalice. All the sentient races aside from humans are extinct, [[LostTechnology humans have lost the means to create things like airships]], and [[spoiler: the Lucavi, who had originally been bound by the Occuria, have attempting to free themselves destroy the world.]] Perhaps they were better off [[spoiler: [[NiceJobBreakingItHero doing what the Occuria said]] ]]

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* Near the end of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII'', the party [[spoiler:destroy the [[MineralMacGuffin Sun Cryst]] thereby breaking the control the Occuria have over mankind.]] That's sounds good at first but then consider ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'', which takes place far into the future of Ivalice. All the sentient races aside from humans are extinct, [[LostTechnology humans have lost the means to create things like airships]], and [[spoiler: the Lucavi, who had originally been bound by the Occuria, have attempting attempted to free themselves and destroy the world.]] Perhaps they were better off [[spoiler: [[NiceJobBreakingItHero doing what the Occuria said]] ]]said]]]].



*** That's not really a "point" so much as a stance against the Occuria who had some very legitimate accomplishments to their name. Its much closer to {{grey and gray morality}} even if its not treated as such.
** You want horror? WordOfGod mentions that St. Ajora Glabados is alive during the events of FFXII. Who is the BigBad of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics''? Ultima and the Lucavi. Who are the Espers the party freed from their Occuria-imposed prisons? Ultima and the Lucavi. ''You'' cause the events of ''Tactics''. Freed from her prison, Ultima will possess Ajora, die, and set the plot of Tactics in motion...

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*** That's not really a "point" so much as a stance against the Occuria Occuria, who had some very legitimate accomplishments to their name. Its It's much closer to {{grey and gray morality}} morality}}, even if its it's not treated as such.
** You want horror? WordOfGod mentions that St. Ajora Glabados is alive during the events of FFXII.''FFXII''. Who is the BigBad of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics''? Ultima and the Lucavi. Who are the Espers the party freed from their Occuria-imposed prisons? Ultima and the Lucavi. ''You'' cause the events of ''Tactics''. Freed from her prison, Ultima will possess Ajora, die, and set the plot of Tactics ''Tactics'' in motion...
2nd Jan '15 1:49:51 PM MrUnderhill
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*** Another point for GreyAndGrayMorality: all the summons you get in this game are ''evil'', either as the future villains of FinalFantasyTactics or [[{{Expy}} expies]] of past games' [[BigBad Big Bads]] ([[MyFriendsAndZoidberg and Shemhazai]], but she still fits the pattern). The good-aligned summons you've used in past games, like Bahamut, Leviathan, and Alexander? They're still present, but they're the namesakes of ''the enemy's'' warships, not yours.
15th Dec '14 1:51:49 PM nombretomado
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** At first, I was a little disappointed by the ending of the game; I'm used to saving the world in ''FinalFantasy'', after all, and liberating some dinky little desert kingdom didn't seem to have the same feel. Then, on a second run through, I realized you ''do'' save the world. Not from some [[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere eldritch abomination]] or [[OmnicidalManiac some madman's plot to destroy it]], but from [[spoiler:a world war fought between two empires, using the local equivalent of weapons of mass destruction.]] Somehow, it feels more "real" to save the world from something like that, and gives more weight to the story. - MrDeath

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** At first, I was a little disappointed by the ending of the game; I'm used to saving the world in ''FinalFantasy'', ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'', after all, and liberating some dinky little desert kingdom didn't seem to have the same feel. Then, on a second run through, I realized you ''do'' save the world. Not from some [[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere eldritch abomination]] or [[OmnicidalManiac some madman's plot to destroy it]], but from [[spoiler:a world war fought between two empires, using the local equivalent of weapons of mass destruction.]] Somehow, it feels more "real" to save the world from something like that, and gives more weight to the story. - MrDeath



** You want horror? WordOfGod mentions that St. Ajora Glabados is alive during the events of FFXII. Who is the BigBad of FinalFantasyTactics? Ultima and the Lucavi. Who are the Espers the party freed from their Occuria-imposed prisons? Ultima and the Lucavi. ''You'' cause the events of ''Tactics''. Freed from her prison, Ultima will possess Ajora, die, and set the plot of Tactics in motion...

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** You want horror? WordOfGod mentions that St. Ajora Glabados is alive during the events of FFXII. Who is the BigBad of FinalFantasyTactics? ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics''? Ultima and the Lucavi. Who are the Espers the party freed from their Occuria-imposed prisons? Ultima and the Lucavi. ''You'' cause the events of ''Tactics''. Freed from her prison, Ultima will possess Ajora, die, and set the plot of Tactics in motion...
1st Sep '13 8:10:52 PM Ghostninja109
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* Remember the [[BonusBoss Omega Mark XII]]? The extra bestiary entries for the Urutan-Yensa are project notes written by its creator, the same guy who [[CreatingLifeIsBad created the Mimics]]. The Mark XII got away from him and considering it's the Mark XII, the other Omega bonus bosses in the series may be his creations as well. Add that to the fact the the Mark XII and the Mimic Queen have very similar designs and you get the implication that the Mimic Queen was intended to be a prototype Omega [[OhCrap that is capable of reproduction]]. Fortunately, it only spawns relatively normal mimics, but what if there are others out there that don't have that limitation?
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