History Fridge / DawnOfWar

28th May '16 12:15:31 PM Shishkahuben
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* Read up on the Blood Ravens on Lexicanum. It says their battle doctrine relies on knowing what the enemy is going to do ahead of time and then hitting them at [[ForMassiveDamage just the right moment with just the right combination of forces]]. That suits their psyker-heavy fluff, sure, but doesn't it sound just a bit like an RTS gamer playing their favourite scenarios over and over again?

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* Read up on the Blood Ravens on Lexicanum. It says their battle doctrine relies on knowing what the enemy is going to do ahead of time and then hitting them at [[ForMassiveDamage [[AwesomenessByAnalysis just the right moment with just the right combination of forces]]. That suits their psyker-heavy fluff, sure, but doesn't it sound just a bit like an RTS gamer playing their favourite scenarios over and over again?
17th Apr '16 9:50:43 AM MinisterOfSinister
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* For one mission of Chaos Rising, you have to explore a Space Hulk, and if you spend too long doing so your characters will start to fall under the influence of the Warp, and can be heard arguing with non-existent people or muttering to themselves. Although what they say seems to be random mutterings when you first play through the game, when you play through a second time you realize their comments actually [[spoiler: foreshadow their reasons for possibly being the traitor!]] For example:

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* For one mission of Chaos Rising, you have to explore a Space Hulk, and if you spend too long doing so your characters will start to fall under the influence of the Warp, and can be heard arguing with non-existent people or muttering to themselves. Although what they say seems to be random mutterings when you first play through the game, when you play through a second time you realize their comments actually [[spoiler: foreshadow their reasons for possibly being the traitor!]] traitor! For example:



** Tarkus can be heard mumbling how "It must be mine, then I will have the power..." [[spoiler: If Tarkus is the traitor, it's because he wants to use Corrupted/Chaos wargear to become powerful enough to destroy all the Chapter's enemies.]]

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** Tarkus can be heard mumbling how "It "None other will do, it must be mine, then I will have the power...we can fight back..." [[spoiler: If Tarkus is the traitor, it's because he wants to use Corrupted/Chaos Chaos-corrupted wargear to become powerful enough to destroy all the Chapter's enemies.]]
17th Apr '16 7:32:51 AM Discar
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* One of the characters that [[TheScrappy most annoyed me]] in ''[[VideoGame/DawnOfWar Dawn of War II]]'' was Avitus, the [[TokenEvilTeammate violent, cruel]] BigGuy of your squad. But I grinded my teeth and ignored it, figuring it was part of all the GRIMDARK of the setting I've been hearing so much about. Then, as I was rifling through the MoodDissonance and CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming pages, the stuff written there helped me realize- every time Avitus was acting in a particularly mean or spiteful fashion, the other squad sergeants angrily reprimanded him. His cruelty helped bring out the other Marines' inherent kindness and decency, which probably wouldn't show if it didn't resonate against his nastiness. With Retribution it is generally accepted that Avitus is [[spoiler: the canon Chaos Rising traitor. Relic was foreshadowing it the whole time.]]

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* One of the characters that [[TheScrappy most annoyed me]] in ''[[VideoGame/DawnOfWar Dawn of War II]]'' was Avitus:
**
Avitus, the [[TokenEvilTeammate violent, cruel]] BigGuy of your squad. squad, seems overly cruel. But I grinded my teeth and ignored it, figuring it was part of all the GRIMDARK of the setting I've been hearing so much about. Then, as I was rifling through the MoodDissonance and CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming pages, the stuff written there helped me realize- every time Avitus was acting in a particularly mean or spiteful fashion, the other squad sergeants angrily reprimanded him. His cruelty helped bring out the other Marines' inherent kindness and decency, which probably wouldn't show if it didn't resonate against his nastiness. With Retribution it is generally accepted that Avitus is [[spoiler: the canon Chaos Rising traitor. Relic was foreshadowing it the whole time.]]



** Something I realized was that as much as Avitus acts like a stock Space Marine, there are hints in his speech near the end of the game that he's extremely maladjusted to his job. This quote in particular stands out: "War is all we are. Killing is all we are good for." He can't stop being a Space Marine because it's such a one-way process, but he doesn't like being one, so he channels his all his resultant anger, grief and frustration into battle. Bearing in mind that [[spoiler:he's all but confirmed to be the traitor]], we know he's also haunted by the memory of all the people he's killed, and sees only death where others see life. Avitus is a walking deconstruction of what it means to be a Space Marine, with Tarkus on hand to provide a reconstruction.

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** Something I realized was that as As much as Avitus acts like a stock Space Marine, there are hints in his speech near the end of the game that he's extremely maladjusted to his job. This quote in particular stands out: "War is all we are. Killing is all we are good for." He can't stop being a Space Marine because it's such a one-way process, but he doesn't like being one, so he channels his all his resultant anger, grief and frustration into battle. Bearing in mind that [[spoiler:he's all but confirmed to be the traitor]], we know he's also haunted by the memory of all the people he's killed, and sees only death where others see life. Avitus is a walking deconstruction of what it means to be a Space Marine, with Tarkus on hand to provide a reconstruction.



* In ''Retribution'' as well as the preceding ''Dawn of War 2'' games, the notion that [[spoiler:a psyker like Azariah Kyras]] would be an aspiring servant of Khorne would initially seem like an oversight if not an AssPull on the part of the writers. That is until one realizes that while Khorne has no love for psykers or sorcerers, neither does he actually ''care'' about whose blood is spilled (let alone how), only that it ''does.'' [[spoiler:Using the Exterminatus as a sacrifice to the Chaos God definitely helps his ascension to daemonhood too.]]

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* Psykers and Khorne:
**
In ''Retribution'' as well as the preceding ''Dawn of War 2'' games, the notion that [[spoiler:a psyker like Azariah Kyras]] would be an aspiring servant of Khorne would initially seem like an oversight if not an AssPull on the part of the writers. That is until one realizes that while Khorne has no love for psykers or sorcerers, neither does he actually ''care'' about whose blood is spilled (let alone how), only that it ''does.'' [[spoiler:Using the Exterminatus as a sacrifice to the Chaos God definitely helps his ascension to daemonhood too.]]



* The ending to the Space Marine Campaign in ''Retribution'' [[spoiler: has Diomedes and Angelos finishing the purge of heresy on the chapter, and Angelos ascending as the new chapter master in front of a crowd of Marines. Considering how high the Blood Raven casualties have been over the course of ''Dawn of War II'', that may very well be all that's left of the chapter.]]
** However, it's made slightly less horrific, as Several Space Marine Chapters have bounced back from massive losses; the most recent well-known example is the Celestial Lions, who were brought to less than 96 Astartes and are currently recouping their losses, with the aid the Black Templars.

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* The ending to the Space Marine Campaign in ''Retribution'' [[spoiler: has Diomedes and Angelos finishing the purge of heresy on the chapter, and Angelos ascending as the new chapter master in front of a crowd of Marines. Considering how high the Blood Raven casualties have been over the course of ''Dawn of War II'', that may very well be all that's left of the chapter.]]
**
]] However, it's made slightly less horrific, as Several Space Marine Chapters have bounced back from massive losses; the most recent well-known example is the Celestial Lions, who were brought to less than 96 Astartes and are currently recouping their losses, with the aid the Black Templars.
17th Apr '16 6:49:50 AM MinisterOfSinister
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Added DiffLines:

** Something I realized was that as much as Avitus acts like a stock Space Marine, there are hints in his speech near the end of the game that he's extremely maladjusted to his job. This quote in particular stands out: "War is all we are. Killing is all we are good for." He can't stop being a Space Marine because it's such a one-way process, but he doesn't like being one, so he channels his all his resultant anger, grief and frustration into battle. Bearing in mind that [[spoiler:he's all but confirmed to be the traitor]], we know he's also haunted by the memory of all the people he's killed, and sees only death where others see life. Avitus is a walking deconstruction of what it means to be a Space Marine, with Tarkus on hand to provide a reconstruction.
20th Mar '16 11:53:57 AM BlackSunNocturne
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** However, it's made slightly less horrific, as Several Space Marine Chapters have bounced back from massive losses; the most recent well-known example is the Celestial Lions, who were brought to less than 96 Astartes and are currently recouping their losses, with the aid the Black Templars.
20th Mar '16 11:46:32 AM BlackSunNocturne
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* The Tau's Relic unit in the first game is a ''Kroot'' warbeast. This makes little sense... until you realize the Tau are [[FlatEarthAtheist Flat Earth Atheists]]: relics and other religious symbols mean nothing to them (nearly every other relic unit has a religious connotation), but very likely hold significance to the BarbarianHero Kroot (as all Kroot species are derived from the basic one, it could be a form of AncestorWorship).

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* The Tau's Relic unit in the first game is a ''Kroot'' warbeast. This makes little sense... until you realize the Tau are [[FlatEarthAtheist Flat Earth Atheists]]: relics and other religious symbols mean nothing to them (nearly every other relic unit has a religious connotation), but very likely hold significance to the BarbarianHero Kroot (as all Kroot species are derived from the basic one, it could be a form of AncestorWorship).Ancestor Worship).




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** Additionally, it's stated ''in official canon'' that Khorne's hang-up about Psykers/Sorcerer is when they ''only'' use their psychic powers for combat, and no martial prowess. A Psyker/Sorcerer that fights more like a MagicKnight, using their psychic powers to ''augment'' their martial abilities, is not as hated as a "pure mage" psyker.
9th Mar '16 6:25:17 PM ThraggLootrippa
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** When you play as Chaos, Carron's tactics will inevitably become more pleasing to the Blood God. For one, the player will have to actively attack and conquer enemy territory. You can play defensively just fine, but Carron will still be killing without relying on the blasphemous shield. His last stand in the Peninsula will (probably) not come to pass, meaning Carron will be out taking blood and skulls all over the system. He would be far, far more likely to earn Khorne's favor at this point.
22nd Nov '15 6:16:52 PM MinisterOfSinister
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** Then there's the small matter of the shields he erected that poison any non-Chaos units which enter it. First of all, poison is yet ''another'' method of killing someone that doesn't involve spilling blood. Second of all, Khorne expects you to [[VillainousValor be proactive and meet your enemies head-on]]; hiding behind defences like a civilian and [[OrcusOnHisThrone waiting for them to come to you]], in the Blood God's view, is the ''coward's'' way of fighting. Whoever won the

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** Then there's the small matter of the shields he erected that poison any non-Chaos units which enter it. First of all, poison is yet ''another'' method of killing someone that doesn't involve spilling blood. Second of all, Khorne expects you to [[VillainousValor be proactive and meet your enemies head-on]]; hiding behind defences like a civilian and [[OrcusOnHisThrone waiting for them to come to you]], in the Blood God's view, is the ''coward's'' way of fighting. Whoever won the Kaurava conflict, it's pretty clear Khorne was rooting for them when they came to the Peninsula of Iseult.
22nd Nov '15 6:14:25 PM MinisterOfSinister
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Added DiffLines:

** Then there's the small matter of the shields he erected that poison any non-Chaos units which enter it. First of all, poison is yet ''another'' method of killing someone that doesn't involve spilling blood. Second of all, Khorne expects you to [[VillainousValor be proactive and meet your enemies head-on]]; hiding behind defences like a civilian and [[OrcusOnHisThrone waiting for them to come to you]], in the Blood God's view, is the ''coward's'' way of fighting. Whoever won the
19th Nov '15 11:43:48 PM dvorak
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** He also delivers a blistering rant about how much he hates being a Blood Raven after a late-game mission. No wonder he ends up as [[spoiler: one of the guys trying to destroy the universe.]]
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