History Flanderization / LiveActionTV

10th Jul '17 7:36:40 AM LaszloZapacik
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** In early series, the others get his name wrong simply through genuine belief that "Jerry" is his real name. By Season 6, they are openly and deliberately calling him by the wrong name.
*** Up to about Season 5, the other characters are on occasion shamed by Leslie and Ann into feeling guilty about how they treat Jerry. When Ben tries the same thing in Season 6, he is shouted down by everyone.
3rd Jul '17 3:06:13 PM Manny20444
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Also Carly has become dumber. While she was never [[TheSimpsons Lisa Simpson]], she was a good student at the very least, She complained about not getting a well-deserved A in a class. As well as being generally pretty smart, she also worked hard on her schooling to get her first ever straight a's. She was also much more book smart than Sam to the point where she was accepted into a private school that even Freddie wasn't. But now she seems but now she seems just barely smart enough to live. This didn't happen all at once, but gradually over time, coming to a head in season 5. Like in the space episode, she can't pronounce claustrophobic, even though she is claustrophobic. In ''iQ'' she has to fake/cheat being intelligent to try and impress a guy when the old Carly would've have been able to at least hold the conversation easily.

to:

*** Also Carly has become dumber. While she was never [[TheSimpsons Lisa Simpson]], she was a good student at the very least, She complained about not getting a well-deserved A in a class. As well as being generally pretty smart, she also worked hard on her schooling to get her first ever straight a's. She was also much more book smart than Sam to the point where she was accepted into a private school that even Freddie wasn't. But now she seems but now she seems just barely smart enough to live. This didn't happen all at once, but gradually over time, coming to a head in season 5. Like in the space episode, she can't pronounce claustrophobic, even though she is claustrophobic. In ''iQ'' she has to fake/cheat being intelligent to try and impress a guy when the old Carly would've have been able to at least hold the conversation easily.
29th Jun '17 9:34:09 AM Sapphirea2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The Cybermen, one of the major villains of the show, also hit several ones down the road. When initially introduced, the Cybermen were completely alien but in many ways better than humans, even winning the arguments thrown at them, and offered cyber-conversion as a choice, but couldn't care less about mankind. Later on, the Cybermen's main motto seemed to have completely become "convert everyone into Cybermen", although this could be excused by EarlyInstallmentWeirdness and the fact that their survival motive seems to be intertwined with cyber-converting.

to:

** The Cybermen, one of the major villains of the show, also hit several ones down the road. When initially introduced, the Cybermen were completely alien but in many ways better than humans, even winning the arguments thrown at them, and offered cyber-conversion as a choice, but couldn't care less about mankind. Later on, the Cybermen's main motto seemed to have completely become "convert everyone into Cybermen", although this could be excused by EarlyInstallmentWeirdness and the fact that their survival motive seems to be intertwined with cyber-converting. The revival series explored the heartbreaking backstory of the original Mondasian Cybermen in depth in Series 10's [[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E11WorldEnoughAndTime "World Enough and Time"]], emphasizing their desperation to survive their PollutedWasteland at any cost.
28th Jun '17 9:07:52 PM Blacknuz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Rebecca as well. At first seems to be a very respectable, and confident, business woman, who liked successful men like herself-finding Sam childish. Later when she first shows her vulnerable side with the situation with Drake, she starts to become more and more whiny about hating her life, and wanting to kill herself, acting bratty, as we hear in one episode her father still gives her an allowance, and a complete gold-digger with no self-esteem, and openly going after some guys just because they have money. The show's writers have commented that this was quite deliberate, as it was funnier, and Christie Ally was so good a playing a neurotic wreck.

to:

** Rebecca as well. At first seems to be a very respectable, and confident, business woman, who liked successful men like herself-finding Sam childish. Later when she first shows her vulnerable side with the situation with Drake, she starts to become more and more whiny about hating her life, and wanting to kill herself, acting bratty, as we hear in one episode her father still gives her an allowance, and a complete gold-digger with no self-esteem, and openly going after some guys just because they have money. The show's writers have commented that this was quite deliberate, as it was funnier, and Christie Ally Kirstie Alley was so good a playing a neurotic wreck.



** Bud, Bud Bud Bud. We could go on for hours how much his sister suffered from this, but he gets hit pretty hard with this as well. At the beginning of the show, he was the CoolLoser who could outwit (and outdo) his sister and wasn't as victimized by her and the rest of the family. Then around season four, his quirkiness that still attracted girls turned to outright nerdiness that they gradually rejected and it was portrayed that no matter how many times he had sex, no matter how [[{{bishonen}} attractive]] David Faustino became, [[StatusQuoIsGod he was still a virgin]]. Even worse, his reputation for being a pervert overtook his other qualities, that he was seen as someone who had to [[ADateWithRosiePalms pleasure himself]] because he apparently was so lonely and repulsive to women (or at least according to [[BigSisterBully Kelly]]), from doing it in a public library to the one [[UnreliableNarrator apparent flashback]][[note]]Which is also the one where Kelly ''supposedly'' ended up stupid due to hitting her head in the car as a child[[/note]] where he was caught doing it as a ''[[{{Squick}} baby.]]''

to:

** Bud, Bud Bud Bud.Bud, Bud, Bud.. We could go on for hours how much his sister suffered from this, but he gets hit pretty hard with this as well. At the beginning of the show, he was the CoolLoser who could outwit (and outdo) his sister and wasn't as victimized by her and the rest of the family. Then around season four, his quirkiness that still attracted girls turned to outright nerdiness that they gradually rejected and it was portrayed that no matter how many times he had sex, no matter how [[{{bishonen}} attractive]] David Faustino became, [[StatusQuoIsGod he was still a virgin]]. Even worse, his reputation for being a pervert overtook his other qualities, that he was seen as someone who had to [[ADateWithRosiePalms pleasure himself]] because he apparently was so lonely and repulsive to women (or at least according to [[BigSisterBully Kelly]]), from doing it in a public library to the one [[UnreliableNarrator apparent flashback]][[note]]Which is also the one where Kelly ''supposedly'' ended up stupid due to hitting her head in the car as a child[[/note]] where he was caught doing it as a ''[[{{Squick}} baby.]]''



* Myycroft in Series/{{Sherlock}}, while notably thinner than his literary origins, still refuses to perform "legwork". However, in the Recap/SherlockSpecialTheAbominableBride, he's presented so far in the other direction it's almost a parody. [[spoiler: Granted that Victorian!Mycroft is (likely) just a figment of Sherlock's imagination as part of moving a puzzle, it may just be Sherlock getting a dig in at his brother]]

to:

* Myycroft Mycroft in Series/{{Sherlock}}, while notably thinner than his literary origins, still refuses to perform "legwork". However, in the Recap/SherlockSpecialTheAbominableBride, he's presented so far in the other direction it's almost a parody. [[spoiler: Granted that Victorian!Mycroft is (likely) just a figment of Sherlock's imagination as part of moving a puzzle, it may just be Sherlock getting a dig in at his brother]]
5th Jun '17 5:01:27 PM frogpatrol
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart was introduced in Season 5 and made a regular in Season 7, serving as an action-oriented non-scientific foil for the Doctor. Despite being a somewhat stubborn and closed-minded military man who depended upon the Doctor in dire circumstances, he was shown in his first 2 seasons as crafty and capable. Starting in Season 8, his most obvious traits were magnified. It got so bad that by Season 10 he was incapable of getting ''anything'' done when the Doctor was away, failed to understand even simple scientific principles, and was incredulous of any unusual phenomenon. This trend was reversed somewhat when his character was reintroduced in Season 20 after an absence of 7 years.
** Every incarnation of the Doctor has gone through this to one extent or another, where certain quirks and personality traits seem to become more magnified the longer any one actor stays in the role.
*** The Second Doctor can be viewed as a Flanderization of the First Doctor. The First Doctor was funny, rude and eccentric and could be relied upon to charge into any situation and be more outrageous than everyone else in it - he's written primarily that way in "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E7TheSpaceMuseum The Space Museum]]", "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS3E3TheMythMakers The Myth Makers]]" and especially "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E4TheRomans The Romans]]" - but it was tempered with a frightening, brooding and vulnerable side to his personality, which tends to be what people remember of him. The Second Doctor, however, was ''primarily'' funny, rude and eccentric and did not have much of a brooding side. For a quick point of comparison, in "The Romans", the Doctor goes to Rome posing as a harpist and embarrasses Emperor Nero by pretending to play a harp piece so subtle that only those with perfectly attuned ears could detect it. In the Second Doctor's only pure historical, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS4E4TheHighlanders The Highlanders]]", the Doctor goes to Scotland posing as a German doctor with a campy and ridiculous accent, and captures an English clerk by telling him he had a headache, and when he protested, bashing his head against the table until he agreed that he did, before prescribing he go and lock himself in a cupboard.
*** A prominent example is the Fourth Doctor, who (ignoring EarlyInstallmentWeirdness) started out as a brooding and distant character, darker than his predecessor due to his capriciousness, foul temper and alien spookiness. He also was childish and kind and loved making his companions laugh - he wore a funny scarf and a silly hairstyle but also had a solemn, sad-eyed face whose smiles were [[TheUnSmile a little too mad and disturbing]]. For various reasons (LighterAndSofter direction and an AttentionWhore actor who could make even scary material [[CreepyCute adorable]]) he got sillier and sillier and sillier over Seasons 14-17, becoming a total CloudCuckooLander MetaGuy known for ComicalOverreacting and tons of wordplay. His [[LoveableRogue rakish recklessness]] also developed into an AwesomeEgo, eventually with much of the humour involving K-9 or Romana proving him wrong about something and him scrabbling to look smarter than them. A quick discussion with a casual fan of his era will prove he is more memorable as a funny Doctor with a serious side than as a serious one with a funny side, but whether or not this is an improvement will strongly depend on your own stance on [[{{Camp}} Guns vs. Frocks]] and how funny you think HamAndCheese-mode Tom Baker is. It helped that CharacterCheck moments would show up fairly frequently, so he still felt relatively fleshed out even though the focus was changing to his funniness. Then Season 18 radically {{Retool}}ed his character in a [[OlderAndWiser different]] [[DarkIsNotEvil direction]] [[WizardClassic entirely]].
*** The Tenth Doctor's first appearance had him dropping an attacking Sycorax commander he had previously spared off a spaceship while saying "No second chances, I'm that sort of man". His pacifist nature got played up more and more until he started believing that former companions threatening to kill [[OmnicidalManiac a ship full of Daleks]] who were moments away from destroying all of ''reality'' was somehow a bad thing.

to:

** Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart was introduced in Season 5 and made a regular in Season 7, serving as an action-oriented non-scientific foil for the Doctor. Despite being a somewhat stubborn and closed-minded military man who depended upon the Doctor in dire circumstances, he was shown in his first 2 two seasons as as, if anything, extraordinarily crafty and capable. Starting Beginning in Season 8, his most obvious traits were magnified. It got so bad that by By Season 10 10, he was incapable of getting ''anything'' done when the Doctor was away, failed to understand even simple scientific principles, and was incredulous of any unusual phenomenon. This trend was reversed somewhat a little when his character was reintroduced in Season 20 after an absence of 7 seven years.
** Every Arguably, every incarnation of the Doctor has gone through this to one extent or another, where certain quirks and personality traits seem to become more magnified the longer any one actor stays in the role.
*** The Second Doctor can be viewed as a Flanderization of the First Doctor. The First Doctor was funny, rude and eccentric and could be relied upon to charge into any situation and be more outrageous than everyone else in it - he's written primarily that way in "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E7TheSpaceMuseum The Space Museum]]", "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS3E3TheMythMakers The Myth Makers]]" and especially "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E4TheRomans The Romans]]" - but it was tempered with a frightening, brooding and vulnerable side to his personality, which tends to be what people remember of him. The Second Doctor, however, was ''primarily'' funny, rude and eccentric and did not have much of a brooding side. For a quick point of comparison, in "The Romans", the Doctor goes to Rome posing as a harpist and embarrasses Emperor Nero by pretending to play a harp piece so subtle that only those with perfectly attuned ears could detect it. In the Second Doctor's only pure historical, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS4E4TheHighlanders The Highlanders]]", the Doctor goes to Scotland posing as a German doctor with a campy and ridiculous accent, and captures an English clerk by telling him he had a headache, and when he protested, bashing his head against the table until he agreed that he did, before prescribing he go and lock himself in a cupboard.
***
A prominent example is the Fourth Doctor, who (ignoring EarlyInstallmentWeirdness) started out who, ignoring EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, began as a brooding and distant character, darker than his predecessor due to his capriciousness, foul temper and alien spookiness. He also was childish and kind and loved making his companions laugh - he wore a funny scarf and a silly hairstyle but also had a solemn, sad-eyed face whose smiles were [[TheUnSmile a little too mad and disturbing]]. For various reasons (LighterAndSofter direction and an AttentionWhore actor who could make even scary material [[CreepyCute adorable]]) actor) he got sillier and sillier and sillier over Seasons 14-17, becoming a total CloudCuckooLander MetaGuy known for ComicalOverreacting and tons of frequent wordplay. His [[LoveableRogue rakish recklessness]] also developed into an AwesomeEgo, eventually with much AwesomeEgo. Much of the humour involving involved K-9 or Romana proving him wrong about something and him scrabbling to look smarter than them. A quick discussion with a casual fan of his era will prove he is more memorable as a funny Doctor with a serious side than as a serious one with a funny side, but whether or not this is an improvement will strongly depend on your own stance on [[{{Camp}} Guns vs. Frocks]] and {{Camp}}and how funny you think HamAndCheese-mode HamAndCheese mode Tom Baker is. It helped that CharacterCheck moments would show up fairly frequently, so he still felt relatively fleshed out even though the focus was changing to his funniness. Then Season 18 radically {{Retool}}ed his character in a [[OlderAndWiser different]] [[DarkIsNotEvil direction]] [[WizardClassic entirely]].
entirely and remade him into a science fiction version of WizardClassic.
*** The Tenth Doctor's first appearance had him dropping an attacking Sycorax commander he had previously spared off a spaceship while saying saying, "No second chances, I'm that sort of man". His pacifist nature got played up more and more until he started believing to believe that former companions threatening to kill [[OmnicidalManiac a ship full of Daleks]] who were moments away from destroying all of ''reality'' was somehow a bad thing.
5th Jun '17 1:10:28 AM irrevenant
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Aaron "Hotch" Hotchner was at first an intense stoic who, on the outside, was cold and distant but, underneath, was extremely empathetic, doing all he could for others (and then some) with an occasional sense of humour. Now, only the cold stoic remains.

to:

** Aaron "Hotch" Hotchner was at first an intense stoic who, on the outside, was cold and distant but, underneath, was extremely empathetic, doing all he could for others (and then some) with an occasional sense of humour. Now, only the cold stoic remains. (Although this was less a case of Flanderization and more a result of the [[TraumaCongaLine trauma conga line]] the character went through).
20th May '17 12:58:21 AM Benbeasted
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Minor recurring character Gunther started out as having a crush on Rachel and being too shy to act on his feelings. As the series went on, he was still shy, but his dialogue with the main cast when Rachel was not in earshot and his inner thoughts made him a perverted leech that wanted Rachel all to himself. It wasn't until the series finale where Gunther ''finally'' spits it out to Rachel about how he feels about her, but Rachel took it as Gunther just being cute.

to:

** Minor recurring character Gunther started out as having a crush on Rachel and being too shy to act on his feelings. As the series went on, he was still shy, but his dialogue with the main cast when Rachel was not in earshot and his inner thoughts made him a perverted leech lech that wanted Rachel all to himself. It wasn't until the series finale where Gunther ''finally'' spits it out to Rachel about how he feels about her, but Rachel took it as Gunther just being cute.
12th May '17 10:12:33 AM Demetrios
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold who still had a nice side]] ([[JerkassFacade although he'd hard-pressed to admit it]]) in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.

to:

** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold who still had a nice side]] ([[JerkassFacade ([[MenAreTough although he'd hard-pressed to admit it]]) in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.
12th May '17 10:11:40 AM Demetrios
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold who still had a nice side]] ([[JerkassFaced although he'd hard-pressed to admit it]]) in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.

to:

** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold who still had a nice side]] ([[JerkassFaced ([[JerkassFacade although he'd hard-pressed to admit it]]) in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.
12th May '17 10:11:16 AM Demetrios
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.

to:

** Eric, Kelso, Donna and Fez. Eric turned from a relatively normal teenager into an absolute nerd; Kelso went from awkward and indecisive to plain stupid; Donna became so aggressive that she was a borderline StrawFeminist; and Fez, formerly a classic desperate virgin, turned into a pervert. Also, Red was a somewhat stern, but no-nonsense parent [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold who still had a nice side]] ([[JerkassFaced although he'd hard-pressed to admit it]]) in the first season, but as seasons went on, he became a constantly angry introvert that borderline terrorised and bullied Eric.
This list shows the last 10 events of 465. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Flanderization.LiveActionTV