History Film / TheNatural

24th Jun '16 3:05:54 PM Mdumas43073
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Based on the novel by Bernard Malamud, ''The Natural'' is a 1984 film starring Creator/RobertRedford as Roy Hobbs, a supernaturally gifted young baseball talent whose career is derailed when he is shot in the gut by a deranged fan. Sixteen years later he makes his belated big league debut, but his dark secret threatens to destroy him.

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Based on the 1952 novel by Bernard Malamud, ''The Natural'' is a 1984 film directed by Barry Levinson and starring Creator/RobertRedford as Roy Hobbs, a supernaturally gifted young baseball talent whose career is derailed when he is shot in the gut by a deranged fan. Sixteen years later he makes his belated big league debut, but his dark secret threatens to destroy him.


Added DiffLines:

21st May '16 12:54:01 PM ajbit26
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** About third of the way through the film, the Knights' bat boy Bobby Savoy comments that he wishes he had a bat of his own, and Roy agrees to make one with him. [[spoiler:After Wonderboy breaks in the climactic game, Bobby loans him the bat he and Roy made, and Roy sends the next pitch crashing into a lighting tower.

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** About a third of the way through the film, the Knights' bat boy Bobby Savoy comments that he wishes he had a bat of his own, and Roy agrees to make one with him. [[spoiler:After [[spoiler: After Wonderboy breaks in the climactic game, Bobby loans him the bat he and Roy made, and Roy sends the next pitch crashing into a lighting tower.]]
9th Mar '16 1:42:50 PM StarSword
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** Max is introduced reading a news story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer. [[spoiler:After Roy strikes out the Whammer on a bet,

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** Max is introduced reading a news story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer. [[spoiler:After Roy strikes out the Whammer on a bet, she switches targets and shoots him instead.]]
9th Mar '16 1:40:30 PM StarSword
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->'''Roy Hobbs''': I coulda been better. I coulda broke every record in the book.
->'''Iris Gaines''': And then?
->'''Roy Hobbs''': And then? And then when I walked down the street people would've looked and they would've said 'there goes Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was in this game'.

to:

->'''Roy Hobbs''': I coulda been better. I coulda broke every record in the book.
->'''Iris
book.\\
'''Iris
Gaines''': And then?
->'''Roy
then?\\
'''Roy
Hobbs''': And then? And then when I walked down the street people would've looked and they would've said 'there goes Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was in this game'.



Also stars Creator/WilfordBrimley as New York Knights manager Pop Fisher, Creator/GlennClose as Hobbs' childhood girlfriend Iris Gaines, and Creator/RobertDuvall as sportswriter Max Mercy.



* AndThenWhat: Both Harriet and Iris pointedly ask Roy at different times what his plan is for ''after'' becoming "the best there ever was in this game."



* CallBack: Roy, a young natural talent, strikes out The Whammer early in the film, right after Max calls Whammer the best there ever was. Roy becomes determined to earn that title for himself, and during the climax of the film he is almost struck out by a young pitcher who the radio announcer describes as "a natural", and who will clearly one day become a legend in his own right. The man even looks a little bit like a young Robert Redford.

to:

* CallBack: CallBack:
**
Roy, a young natural talent, strikes out The Whammer early in the film, right after Max calls Whammer the best there ever was. Roy becomes determined to earn that title for himself, and during the climax of the film he is almost struck out by a young pitcher who the radio announcer describes as "a natural", and who will clearly one day become a legend in his own right. The man even looks a little bit like a young Robert Redford.Redford.
** About third of the way through the film, the Knights' bat boy Bobby Savoy comments that he wishes he had a bat of his own, and Roy agrees to make one with him. [[spoiler:After Wonderboy breaks in the climactic game, Bobby loans him the bat he and Roy made, and Roy sends the next pitch crashing into a lighting tower.



* DarkIsEvil: Implied with [[NoNameGiven the Judge]], who refuses to light his office. Roy doesn't hold this belief, saying that the only think he knows about the dark is "you can't see in it."

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* TheConspiracy: A bit of {{exposition}} reveals that Pop Fisher owes a lot of money to the Judge, and bet his share in the New York Knights franchise against the forgiveness of the debt that the Knights would win the league pennant. The Judge conspires with a bookie and Fisher's own niece to fix the Knights' games so Fisher loses the bet, but Hobbs' talent and [[ScrewTheMoneyIHaveRules personal integrity]] become the SpannerInTheWorks.
* DarkIsEvil: Implied with [[NoNameGiven the Judge]], who refuses to light his office. Roy doesn't hold this belief, saying that the only think thing he knows about the dark is "you can't see in it."



--> '''Max''': You read my mind.
--> '''Roy''': That takes all of three seconds.

to:

--> '''Max''': You read my mind.
-->
mind.\\
'''Roy''': That takes all of three seconds.seconds.
* DestructiveSavior: Roy may have saved the Knights and Pop Fisher's career, but he smashes up a hell of a lot of ballpark with his home runs in the process.
* DisneyVillainDeath: Of the not-family-friendly variety. [[spoiler:Harriet Bird jumps out a high window in a black negligee after shooting Roy. The Judge later shows Roy the gory crime scene photographs in an attempt at {{blackmail}}ing him to stay out of the league pennant game.]]



* {{Expy}}: "The Whammer", played by Joe Don Baker, is obviously inspired by Creator/BabeRuth. For that matter Hobbs is both a tremendous pitcher (he strikes out the Whammer) and a fearsome slugger, much as Ruth was in real life.
** Hobbs is much closer to Ted Williams than Ruth. Williams was also a decent pitcher who was quickly changed to a left fielder while still in the minors, wore the number 9, and hit a home run in his last at bat of his career.
* TheFilmOfTheBook: Adapted from the novel by Bernard Malamud. Malamud's novel is considerably darker in tone and has a [[spoiler: DownerEnding in which Hobbs strikes out at the end and is disgraced]], while the movie has a completely opposite ending.
** Also, in the book, Hobbs becomes an arrogant {{Jerkass}} as a result of his sudden fame.
* FirstGirlWins / VictoriousChildhoodFriend: Roy refuses to throw the game and run away with Memo, and the final scene shows him playing catch with [[spoiler: his son]] while Iris watches with a smile.
* {{Foreshadowing}}: Max is introduced reading a news story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer.

to:

* {{Expy}}: "The Whammer", played by Joe Don Baker, is obviously inspired by Creator/BabeRuth. For that matter Hobbs is both a tremendous pitcher (he strikes out the Whammer) and a fearsome slugger, much as Ruth was in real life.
** Hobbs is much closer to Ted Williams than Ruth. Williams was also a decent pitcher who was quickly changed to a left fielder while still in the minors, wore the number 9, and hit a home run in his last at bat of his career.
* TheFilmOfTheBook: Adapted from the novel by Bernard Malamud. Malamud's novel is considerably darker in tone and has a [[spoiler: DownerEnding in which Hobbs strikes out at the end and is disgraced]], while the movie has a completely opposite ending.
**
ending. Also, in the book, Hobbs becomes an arrogant {{Jerkass}} as a result of his sudden fame.
fame, whereas he remains a goal-oriented NiceGuy in the movie.
* FirstGirlWins / VictoriousChildhoodFriend: FirstGirlWins[=/=]VictoriousChildhoodFriend: Roy refuses to throw the game and run away with Memo, and the final scene shows him playing catch with [[spoiler: his son]] while Iris watches with a smile.
* {{Foreshadowing}}: {{Foreshadowing}}:
**
Max is introduced reading a news story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer. [[spoiler:After Roy strikes out the Whammer on a bet,



* ICallItVera: "Wonderboy".
** And later, Bobby's "Savoy Special."

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* ICallItVera: "Wonderboy".
**
"Wonderboy", Roy's bat. And later, Bobby's "Savoy Special."



* LoonyFan: Of the very creepy variety.

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* LoonyFan: Of the very creepy variety. [[spoiler:Harriet Bird turns out to be the briefly-mentioned lunatic responsible for killing star athletes with silver bullets.]]



* NoCelebritiesWereHarmed:
** "The Whammer", played by Joe Don Baker, is obviously inspired by Creator/BabeRuth: they look an awful lot alike and the Whammer has a reputation as a tremendous home run hitter (though this is an InformedAttribute courtesy of Roy's right arm).
** Roy Hobbs is something of a CompositeCharacter inspired by both Ruth and Ted Williams. both a tremendous pitcher (he strikes out the Whammer) and a fearsome slugger, much as Ruth was in real life. Williams was also a decent pitcher who was quickly changed to a left fielder while still in the minors, wore the number 9, and hit a home run in his last at bat of his career.



* PutMeInCoach: Knights manager Pop Fisher is initially highly reluctant to let his absurdly old rookie play in a game.

to:

* {{Paparazzi}}: Sportswriter (and sports cartoonist) Max Mercy comes off as this, seemingly just as interested in baseball scandals and scoops as in baseball itself, and unknowingly aids and abets TheConspiracy on a number of occasions.
* PutMeInCoach: Knights manager Pop Fisher is initially highly reluctant to let his absurdly old rookie play in a game. He finally relents for batting practice after Hobbs loses his temper at him when Fisher announces he's sending Hobbs down to the Knights' minor league farm team, and Hobbs' talent for long fly balls convinces Fisher to let him try it for real.



* ShoutOut: Roy's statement he wants people on the street to say "There goes Roy Hobbs, the greatest hitter who ever lived" was something Ted Williams stated.
** The whole plot appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology and Homer's writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus, who patiently and faithfully waited for her true love to return home.

to:

* ShoutOut: ShoutOut:
**
Roy's statement he wants people on the street to say "There goes Roy Hobbs, the greatest hitter who ever lived" was something Ted Williams stated.
** The whole plot appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology Myth/GreekMythology and Homer's Creator/{{Homer}}'s writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus, who patiently and faithfully waited for her true love to return home. {{Lampshaded}} early in the film when Harriet Bird compares Roy striking out the Whammer to something out of Homer.



* TheVamp: Memo.
* VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory: Philadelphia Phillies shortstop Eddie Waitkus was shot in the chest in his hotel room by a deranged fan in 1949. He recovered from his wound and played six more seasons in the big leagues, starring with the 1950 "Whiz Kids" Philadelphia team that won the National League pennant.

to:

* TheVamp: Memo.
Pop Fisher's niece, Memo Paris, is in cahoots with the conspiracy trying to fix games to take the NY Knights franchise away from Fisher, [[DistractedByTheSexy using her attributes]] to distract the Knights' top players and cost them games.
* VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory: VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory:
**
Philadelphia Phillies shortstop Eddie Waitkus was shot in the chest in his hotel room by a deranged fan in 1949. He recovered from his wound and played six more seasons in the big leagues, starring with the 1950 "Whiz Kids" Philadelphia team that won the National League pennant.



* WholePlotReference: To ''Literature/LeMorteDarthur'', right down to the manager's name being Fisher (FisherKing), the team being called The Knights, Roy's bat being named (as Excalibur was), broken, and "healed" (in this case, a replacement).

to:

* WholePlotReference: To ''Literature/LeMorteDarthur'', right down to the manager's name being Fisher (FisherKing), the team being called The Knights, Roy's bat being named (as Excalibur was), broken, and "healed" (in this case, a replacement). [[spoiler:Except unlike Arthur, in the movie Roy Hobbs wins his final battle and lives to retire in apparent happiness.]]



----

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15th Oct '15 5:59:18 PM eroock
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-->'''Roy Hobbs''': I coulda been better. I coulda broke every record in the book.
-->'''Iris Gaines''': And then?
-->'''Roy Hobbs''': And then? And then when I walked down the street people would've looked and they would've said 'there goes Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was in this game'.

to:

-->'''Roy ->'''Roy Hobbs''': I coulda been better. I coulda broke every record in the book.
-->'''Iris ->'''Iris Gaines''': And then?
-->'''Roy ->'''Roy Hobbs''': And then? And then when I walked down the street people would've looked and they would've said 'there goes Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was in this game'.



!!This movie contains examples of:

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!!This movie contains film provides examples of:
3rd Oct '15 1:45:07 PM flambeau
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** The plot itself appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology and Homer's writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus, who patiently and faithfully waited for her true love to return home.

to:

** The whole plot itself appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology and Homer's writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus, who patiently and faithfully waited for her true love to return home.



* TamperingWithFoodAndDrink: To keep the Knight's from winning their next few games, Memo offers an unsuspecting Roy a bite of drugged a food at a party. He ends up ill and has to be rushed to the hospital, where he spends several days recovering.

to:

* TamperingWithFoodAndDrink: To keep the Knight's from winning their next few games, Memo offers an unsuspecting Roy a bite of drugged a food at a party. He ends up ill and has to be rushed to the hospital, where he spends several days recovering.
1st Oct '15 1:40:31 PM flambeau
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* SomeoneToRememberHimBy: Iris has a secret.



* SomeoneToRememberHimBy: Iris has a secret.
1st Oct '15 1:39:15 PM flambeau
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Based on the novel by Bernard Malamud, ''The Natural'' is a 1984 film starring Creator/RobertRedford as Roy Hobbs, a supernaturally gifted young baseball talent whose career is derailed when he is shot in the gut by a deranged fan. Years later he makes his belated big league debut, but his dark secret threatens to destroy him.

to:

Based on the novel by Bernard Malamud, ''The Natural'' is a 1984 film starring Creator/RobertRedford as Roy Hobbs, a supernaturally gifted young baseball talent whose career is derailed when he is shot in the gut by a deranged fan. Years Sixteen years later he makes his belated big league debut, but his dark secret threatens to destroy him. him.



* CallBack: Roy, a young natural talent, strikes out The Whammer early in the film, right after Max explicitly calls Whammer the best there ever was. Roy becomes determined to earn that title for himself, and during the climax of the film, he faces off against a young pitcher who the announcer describes as "a natural", and who will clearly one day become a legend in his own right. The man even looks a little bit like a young Robert Redford.

to:

* CallBack: Roy, a young natural talent, strikes out The Whammer early in the film, right after Max explicitly calls Whammer the best there ever was. Roy becomes determined to earn that title for himself, and during the climax of the film, film he faces off against is almost struck out by a young pitcher who the radio announcer describes as "a natural", and who will clearly one day become a legend in his own right. The man even looks a little bit like a young Robert Redford.



* CatapultNightmare: Roy has a nightmare involving the woman who shot him ([[{{Foreshadowing}} while in bed with Memo]]), and jerks awake in a panic.

to:

* CatapultNightmare: Roy has a nightmare involving the woman who shot him ([[{{Foreshadowing}} while in bed with Memo]]), and jerks awake in a panic.fright.



* {{Foreshadowing}}: Max is introduced reading a story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer.

to:

* {{Foreshadowing}}: Max is introduced reading a news story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer.



* HowWeGotHere: A subtle example. The film opens with a scene of Roy boarding a train as an adult, then flashes back to his childhood and days as a young, up and coming talent. After the incident that ends his career before it even starts, the film cuts to sixteen years later, and shows Roy arriving at the Knight's practice session, wearing the same clothing as the opening scene.

to:

* HowWeGotHere: A subtle example. The film opens with a scene of Roy boarding a train as an adult, then flashes back to his childhood and days as a young, up and coming talent. pitcher. After the incident that ends his career before it even starts, the film cuts to sixteen years later, later and shows Roy arriving at the Knight's practice session, ballpark in the middle of a game, wearing the same clothing as the opening scene.



* MissingMom: Roy's mother is never seen or mentioned, which leads to some interesting questions about who exactly took care of him after the death of his father.
* MoodWhiplash: Bump Bailey's death occurs during a game where he's playing exceptionally well, and the coaches are congratulating each other on successfully motivating him to play better... then he crashes through the outfield wall while chasing a ball and it cuts to a radio announcer describing his funeral while his ashes are scattered on the field. The whole thing comes completely out of nowhere.

to:

* MissingMom: Roy's mother is never seen or mentioned, which leads to raises some interesting questions about who exactly took care of him after the death of his father.
* MoodWhiplash: Bump Bailey's death occurs during a game where he's playing exceptionally well, and the coaches are congratulating each other on successfully motivating him to play better... then better. Then he crashes through the outfield wall while chasing a ball and it cuts to a radio announcer describing his funeral while his ashes are scattered on the field. The whole thing comes completely out of nowhere.



* TamperingWithFoodAndDrink: To keep the Knight's from winning their next few games, Memo offers an unsuspecting Roy a bite of drugged a food at a party. He ends up ill and has to be rushed to the hospital, where he spends several days recovering.



* VillainousBreakdown: Memo pulls a gun on Roy when he tells The Judge that he's not going to throw the game, since it means that he won't run away with her like she begged him to.

to:

* VillainousBreakdown: Memo [[spoiler: Memo]] pulls a gun on Roy when he tells The Judge that he's not going to throw the game, since it also means that he won't he's refusing to run away with her like she begged him to.



* WomanInWhite: Iris, when she attends the baseball game where Roy breaks his batting slump. She's even back-lit by the sun so it looks like she's glowing.

to:

* WomanInWhite: Iris, when she attends the baseball game where in which Roy breaks his batting slump. She's even back-lit by the sun so it looks like she's glowing.



----

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----
1st Oct '15 11:42:39 AM flambeau
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Added DiffLines:

* CallBack: Roy, a young natural talent, strikes out The Whammer early in the film, right after Max explicitly calls Whammer the best there ever was. Roy becomes determined to earn that title for himself, and during the climax of the film, he faces off against a young pitcher who the announcer describes as "a natural", and who will clearly one day become a legend in his own right. The man even looks a little bit like a young Robert Redford.


Added DiffLines:

* {{Foreshadowing}}: Max is introduced reading a story about two famous athletes who were both shot with silver bullets. Harriet enters the train-car moments later and begins eyeing Whammer.
** The first time we see Roy miss a pitch is at the carnival when Harriet (along with Max and Whammer) comes over to watch his throwing. This foreshadows the slump he goes through later, during his relationship with Memo.


Added DiffLines:

* HowWeGotHere: A subtle example. The film opens with a scene of Roy boarding a train as an adult, then flashes back to his childhood and days as a young, up and coming talent. After the incident that ends his career before it even starts, the film cuts to sixteen years later, and shows Roy arriving at the Knight's practice session, wearing the same clothing as the opening scene.


Added DiffLines:

* MissingMom: Roy's mother is never seen or mentioned, which leads to some interesting questions about who exactly took care of him after the death of his father.
1st Oct '15 10:36:47 AM flambeau
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* FirstGirlWins / VictoriousChildhoodFriend: Roy refuses to throw the game and run away with Memo like she begged him to, and the final scene shows him playing catch with [[spoiler: his son]] while Iris watches.

to:

* FirstGirlWins / VictoriousChildhoodFriend: Roy refuses to throw the game and run away with Memo like she begged him to, Memo, and the final scene shows him playing catch with [[spoiler: his son]] while Iris watches.watches with a smile.



* HypocriticalHumor: The Judge berates Roy for turning down his bribe to throw the game by declaring "I thought I could rely on your honor!"

to:

* HypocriticalHumor: The Judge berates Roy for [[ScrewTheMoneyIHaveRules turning down his bribe to throw the game game]] by declaring "I thought I could rely on your honor!"



** The plot itself appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology and Homer's writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines, Roy's true love, is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus.

to:

** The plot itself appears to be heavily influenced by Greek Mythology and Homer's writings. Roy is Odysseus, the hero trying to find his way home. Max Mercy is Vulcan, the God of Fire and Forging; he can "make or break" upcoming ball players and is always seen in red or brown clothing. Pop Fisher is Zeus, King of the Gods; his uniform is #1 and both the oak tree and lightning bolt are his symbols. The Judge is Hades, God of the Underworld; he is always in the dark a.k.a. death, and the dead are "judged" in the underworld. Memo Paris is Kalypso, a sea nymph who had an affair with Odysseus and held/distracted him from returning home. Gus Sands is the Cyclops with the one strange eye. Iris Gaines, Roy's true love, Gaines is Penelope, the wife of Odysseus.Odysseus, who patiently and faithfully waited for her true love to return home.



* TheThirties

to:

* TheThirtiesTheThirties: The commemorative centennial patches on the left arm of the Knight's uniforms indicate that the later part of the film takes place during the 1939 season.
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