History EvilCounterpart / AnimeAndManga

29th Sep '17 1:35:25 PM VisitorAlex
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[[quoteright:370:[[Anime/DragonBallSuper http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/black_vs_goku.jpg]]]]
[[caption-width-right:370:Goku ''[[DarkIsEvil Black]]'' vs. Son Goku]]
17th Sep '17 2:56:21 AM Vir
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** Atlas, who has become Astro's biggest rival over the years. Though he was little more than a violent thug in his first appearance, he was later updated in the [[Anime/AstroBoy 80s anime]] as a CompositeCharacter of Atlas, Astro's "brother" Cobalt & the Blue Knight. In the 2003 series, with the Blue Knight retained as a separate character, though, their conflict was more personal than political. Both had terrible relationships with the men they called "father", but had very different ways of dealing with it; Atlas' involving kidnapping, industrial sabotage & attempted murder. What makes it more poignant is the fact that they were both based on the same technology, adding a layer of "there but for the grace of god go I" for Astro, that an advanced AI can choose between good & evil.
** Astro II, a "more human" version of Astro, including human vices such as lust & sloth.

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** Atlas, who has become Astro's biggest rival over the years. Though he was little more than a violent thug in his first appearance, he was later updated in the [[Anime/AstroBoy 80s anime]] as a CompositeCharacter of Atlas, Astro's "brother" Cobalt & and the Blue Knight. In the 2003 series, with the Blue Knight retained as a separate character, though, their conflict was more personal than political. Both had terrible relationships with the men they called "father", but had very different ways of dealing with it; Atlas' involving kidnapping, industrial sabotage & sabotage, and attempted murder. What makes it more poignant is the fact that they were both based on the same technology, adding a layer of "there but for the grace of god go I" for Astro, that an advanced AI can choose between good & and evil.
** Astro II, a "more human" version of Astro, including human vices such as lust & and sloth.



* ''Manga/{{Eyeshield 21}}''

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* ''Manga/{{Eyeshield 21}}'' ''Manga/Eyeshield21''
13th Sep '17 7:18:11 PM VelvetPierrot
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** An ArcVillain example, though worth menctioning: The Fake Straw Hats. Their attempt to pass on as the genuine ones is already obviously poor in the eyes of the audience because: 1)These phonies always brag about their stolen reputation to intimidate anyone and get what they wanted because they have no real skills (they even tried to intimidate the real ones like this!), and 2) most of them never thought of them as friends or family [[note]]as when Fake Luffy simply gave no importance to the lost of his Robin[[/note]]. Anyone who knows the real Straw Hats has a perfect concept of their intense loyalty towards each other, their dedication to their "job" by becoming stronger, and their humbleness of some sort despite thinkng of their bounties as achievement [[note]]they never rub them to the faces of others to get what they want[[/note]].

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** An ArcVillain example, though worth menctioning: The Fake Straw Hats. Their attempt to pass on as the genuine ones is already obviously poor in the eyes of the audience because: 1)These phonies always brag about their stolen reputation to intimidate anyone and get what they wanted because they have no real skills (they even tried to intimidate the real ones like this!), 2)They aimed to recruit other pirates based solely on their bounties because they think of them as [[PowerLevels indicator for power]], meaning they only care for strength, and 2) 3) most of them never thought of them as friends or family [[note]]as when Fake Luffy simply gave no importance to the lost of his Robin[[/note]]. Anyone who knows the real Straw Hats has a perfect concept of their intense loyalty towards each other, their dedication to their "job" by becoming stronger, the fact that Luffy always handpicked his TrueCompanions if they interest him somehow [[note]]and tried to do so with anybody who looked weird and flashy[[/note]] not necesarily by strength, and their humbleness of some sort despite thinkng of their bounties as achievement [[note]]they never rub them to the faces of others to get what they want[[/note]].
11th Sep '17 7:55:00 PM VelvetPierrot
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** An ArcVillain example, though worth menctioning: The Fake Straw Hats. Their attempt to pass on as the genuine ones is already obviously poor in the eyes of the audience because: 1)These phonies always brag about their stolen reputation to intimidate anyone and get what they wanted because they have no real skills (they even tried to intimidate the real ones like this!), and 2) most of them never thought of them as friends or family [[note]]as when Fake Luffy simply gave no importance to the lost of his Robin[[/note]]. Anyone who knows the real Straw Hats has a perfect concept of their intense loyalty towards each other, their dedication to their "job" by becoming stronger, and their humbleness of some sort despite thinkng of their bounties as achievement [[note]]they never rub them to the faces of others to get what they want[[/note]].
11th Sep '17 7:36:37 PM VelvetPierrot
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** It looks like Blackbeard is shaping up to be Luffy's EvilCounterpart in addition to the BigBad. He's initially introduced as someone who has similar dreams to Luffy and similar ambitions, as well as the same BigEater nature (though with completely different tastes in food). Then it turns out he takes things a bit further and will actually betray his TrueCompanions and kill them to fulfill his ambitions. He even subtly points this out when [[spoiler: he and Luffy reunite in Impel Down]] and hints that they're NotSoDifferent. It helps that his crew mimics Luffy's as well, with [[ImprobableAimingSkills Van Augur]] as counterpart to [[LovableCoward Usopp]], [[AxCrazy Shiliew]] to [[BloodKnight Zoro]], etc.
*** The Blackbeard pirates [[spoiler: except perhaps the original members]] don't think of each other as nakama and some members has expressed an interest [[spoiler: in dethroning Blackbeard as leader]]. Some of them stated that if [[spoiler: Blackbeard wasn't able to steal Whitebeard's powers]], they would have just abandoned him to the Marines. Also, many of the members are {{Gonk}} in contrast with the Straw Hats who are good-looking, cool or cute. Another similarity is that, despite being a {{Jerkass}} and [[DirtyCoward coward,]] he and the rest of the Blackbeard Pirates (Besides maybe the new members from Impel Down) all believe in destiny and dreams (Which seems to be a trait of the people who have the D initial)

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** It looks like Blackbeard is shaping up to be Luffy's EvilCounterpart in addition to the BigBad. He's initially introduced as someone who has similar dreams to Luffy and similar ambitions, as well as the same BigEater nature (though with completely different tastes in food). Then it turns out he takes things a bit further and will actually betray his TrueCompanions and kill them to fulfill his ambitions. He even subtly points this out when [[spoiler: he and Luffy reunite in Impel Down]] and hints that they're NotSoDifferent. Also, Luffy is a MagneticHero; Blackbeard acquires subordinates via cage matches. Luffy gets serious in a fight and smiles at death; Blackbeard grins evilly in battle and screams hysterically at the prospect of dying. Luffy never interferes in another's fight (or asks for assistance); Blackbeard has his crew finish his dirty work for him. It helps that his crew mimics Luffy's as well, with [[ImprobableAimingSkills Van Augur]] as counterpart to [[LovableCoward Usopp]], [[AxCrazy Shiliew]] to [[BloodKnight Zoro]], etc.
*** The Blackbeard pirates [[spoiler: except perhaps the original members]] don't think of each other as nakama and some members has expressed an interest [[spoiler: in dethroning Blackbeard as leader]]. Some of them stated that if [[spoiler: Blackbeard wasn't able to steal Whitebeard's powers]], they would have just abandoned him to the Marines. Also, many of the members are {{Gonk}} in contrast with the Straw Hats who are good-looking, cool or cute. Another similarity is that, despite being a {{Jerkass}} and [[DirtyCoward coward,]] he and the rest of the Blackbeard Pirates (Besides maybe the new members from Impel Down) all believe in destiny and dreams (Which seems to be a trait of the people who have the D initial)initial), though twisted to the point of believe in the cruel workings of fate, while Luffy's nakama are all Determinators.



** Most every BigBad Luffy's encountered along the way was something of an EvilCounterpart Moria revealing that he lost his beloved TrueCompanions in the New World. They seem to act as chilling reminders of what Luffy may become if he doesn't hold onto his dreams and his friends.

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** Most every BigBad Luffy's encountered along the way was something of an EvilCounterpart EvilCounterpart. Moria revealing that he lost his beloved TrueCompanions in the New World. They seem to act as chilling reminders of what Luffy may become if he doesn't hold onto his dreams and his friends.



** Nami herself has few counterparts (Miss Double Finger, Kalifa etc) who are intelligent, manipulative and [[MsFanservice beautiful]] like her. But while Nami is essentially a good and caring person, Miss Double Finger and Kalifia are ruthless FemmeFatale(s) who couldn't less for compassion.

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** Nami herself has few counterparts (Miss Double Finger, Doublefinger, Kalifa etc) who are intelligent, manipulative and [[MsFanservice beautiful]] like her. But while Nami is essentially a good and caring person, Miss Double Finger Doublefinger and Kalifia are ruthless FemmeFatale(s) who couldn't less for compassion.



** Jinble and Arlong are a subtle one and a non-human example being [[FishPeople fish dudes]]. Both of them hated humans and held bitter memories of Fish man slavery by humans, but after their mentor and hero [[LongDeadBadass Fisher Tiger]] kicked the bucket Jinble came to respect and care for humans while Arlong hated them forever becoming just as evil as they were to him.
** Donquixote Domflamingo has got ''a lot'' of good counterparts, while he remains one of the most evil and [[TragicVillain tragic figures]] of the series.
*** [[spoiler: Donquixote Rocinante (his own brother) [[RichesToRags former Nobles]] they both experienced poverty and misery when the Celestial Dragons turn their backs on them and lost their mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate is everything his older brother Doflamingo isn't, he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate is empathetic and cable of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].
*** Law like Domflamingo had his entire life ruined from a [[HarmfulToMinors earlier age]] Law and Doffy had to watch as their loved ones [[note]] Law's father, mother and sister and Domflamingo mother[[/note]] die from sickness in front of him causing them both to snap and become [[EnfantTerrible murderous kids]] however Law managed to become a better person. [[spoiler: Ironically thanks to Rocinate's affection despite him suffering the same as Doffy in the past]]. Even in the present Law still retains some of Domflamingo callous personality quirks (especially regarding the weak), but draws the line when comes to harming innocent while Doffy crosses it [[{{Sadist}} regularly]].
*** [[spoiler: Sanji surprisingly is coincidentally (or not) is a strong almost parallel counterpart to Domflamingo, firstly they both come from infamous Royalty in North Blue and were forced out, both Sanji and Doffy deeply [[MommasBoy loved their mothers]] and could do nothing as their respective mothers [[IllGirl died from illness]] despite their attempts to make them better with food. The big difference is Sanji [[RebelPrince hated his Royalty]] while Doffy did everything in his power to regain his nobility. There's also minor similarities: blonde hair, [[ExtremityExtremist kick-based marital arts]] and no shame in [[RealMenWearPink wearing pink]] and to put the cherry on top Sanji and Domflamingo are even attracted to the same women: Viola.]]
*** Luffy and [[spoiler: Sabo]] are also counterparts, Luffy and Domflamingo share a connection in the fact that Doffy unlike so many other evil Pirates actually cares and looks after his crew like Luffy does, both of them were also ''nearly'' burned alive in a Noble town (Luffy by Nobles and Doffy by commoners). [[spoiler: Sabo is a better counterpart since he and Domflamingo are Nobles by birth but Sabo hates the fact he is a Noble while Domflamingo reveled in it, when Nobility was taken away from him Sabo became an even better person than he already was while [[StartOfDarkness it sent]] Doffy down the dark path]].

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** Jinble Jinbe and Arlong are a subtle one and a non-human example being [[FishPeople fish dudes]]. Both of them hated humans and held bitter memories of Fish man slavery by humans, but after their mentor and hero [[LongDeadBadass Fisher Tiger]] kicked the bucket Jinble Jinbe came to respect and care for humans while Arlong hated them forever becoming just as evil as they were to him.
** Donquixote Domflamingo Doflamingo has got ''a lot'' of good counterparts, while he remains one of the most evil and [[TragicVillain tragic figures]] of the series.
*** [[spoiler: Donquixote Rocinante (his own brother) [[RichesToRags former Nobles]] they both experienced poverty and misery when the Celestial Dragons turn their backs on them and lost their mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate Rocinante is everything his older brother Doflamingo isn't, isn't: he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate Rocinante is empathetic and cable able of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, Sengoku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo Doflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].
*** Law like Domflamingo Doflamingo had his entire life ruined from a [[HarmfulToMinors earlier age]] age]]. Law and Doffy had to watch as their loved ones [[note]] Law's father, mother and sister and Domflamingo mother[[/note]] die from sickness in front of him causing them both to snap and become [[EnfantTerrible murderous kids]] however kids]]. However Law managed to become a better person. person [[spoiler: Ironically thanks to Rocinate's Rocinante's affection despite him suffering the same as Doffy in the past]]. Even in the present Law still retains some of Domflamingo Doflamingo callous personality quirks (especially regarding the weak), but draws the line when comes to harming innocent while Doffy crosses it [[{{Sadist}} regularly]].
*** [[spoiler: Sanji surprisingly is coincidentally (or not) is a strong almost parallel counterpart to Domflamingo, Doflamingo; firstly they both come from infamous Royalty in North Blue and were forced out, both Sanji and Doffy deeply [[MommasBoy loved their mothers]] and could do nothing as their respective mothers [[IllGirl died from illness]] despite their attempts to make them better with food. The big difference is Sanji [[RebelPrince is a[[RebelPrince hated his Royalty]] while Doffy did everything in his power to regain his nobility. There's also minor similarities: blonde hair, [[ExtremityExtremist kick-based marital arts]] and no shame in [[RealMenWearPink wearing pink]] and to put the cherry on top Sanji and Domflamingo are even attracted to the same women: Viola.]]
*** Luffy and [[spoiler: Sabo]] are also counterparts, Luffy and Domflamingo Doflamingo share a connection in the fact that Doffy unlike so many other evil Pirates actually cares and looks after his crew like Luffy does, both of them were also ''nearly'' burned alive in a Noble town (Luffy by Nobles and Doffy by commoners). [[spoiler: Sabo is a better counterpart since he and Domflamingo Doflamingo are Nobles by birth but Sabo hates the fact he is a Noble while Domflamingo Doflamingo reveled in it, when Nobility was taken away from him Sabo became an even better person than he already was while [[StartOfDarkness it sent]] Doffy down the dark path]].
8th Sep '17 7:58:38 AM ThomasProofreader
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** Nami herself has few counterparts (Miss Double Finger, Kalifa etc) who are intelligent, manipulative and [[MissFanService beautiful]] like her. But while Nami is essentially a good and caring person, Miss Double Finger and Kalifia are ruthless FemmeFatale(s) who couldn't less for compassion.

to:

** Nami herself has few counterparts (Miss Double Finger, Kalifa etc) who are intelligent, manipulative and [[MissFanService [[MsFanservice beautiful]] like her. But while Nami is essentially a good and caring person, Miss Double Finger and Kalifia are ruthless FemmeFatale(s) who couldn't less for compassion.
27th Aug '17 11:42:07 PM Trustworthy69
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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].

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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].



*** [[spoiler: Donquixote Rocinante (his own brother) [[FromRichesToRags former Nobles]] they both experienced poverty and misery when the Celestial Dragons turn their backs on them and lost their mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate is everything his older brother Doflamingo isn't, he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate is empathetic and cable of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].

to:

*** [[spoiler: Donquixote Rocinante (his own brother) [[FromRichesToRags [[RichesToRags former Nobles]] they both experienced poverty and misery when the Celestial Dragons turn their backs on them and lost their mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate is everything his older brother Doflamingo isn't, he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate is empathetic and cable of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].
27th Aug '17 11:40:52 PM Trustworthy69
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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].

to:

* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].



*** Sanji less sinister counterpoint is the goofy cook [[BewareTheSillyOnes Wanze]] both of them are the cooks of their respective teams and are martial artists too, but while Sanji is a graceful cook who respects food, Wanze is klutzy idiotic madman who serves ramen though his nose. Wanze also uses kitchen knives and food as weapons something that's a big no-no in Sanji's book, he declares that Wanze is a disgrace to name of chef before sending the weird cook flying.

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*** Sanji Sanji's less sinister counterpoint is the goofy cook [[BewareTheSillyOnes Wanze]] both of them are the cooks of their respective teams and are martial artists too, to boot, but while Sanji is a graceful cook who respects food, Wanze is klutzy idiotic madman who serves ramen though his nose. Wanze also uses kitchen knives and food as weapons something that's a big no-no in Sanji's book, he even declares that Wanze is a disgrace to name of chef before sending the weird cook flying.beating to a pulp.



*** [[spoiler: His brother Donquixote Rocinante both [[FromRitchesToRags former Nobles]] who experienced hell on Earth alongside Doffy and lost the same mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate is everything his older brother Doffy isn't, he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate is empathetic and cable of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].

to:

*** [[spoiler: His brother Donquixote Rocinante both [[FromRitchesToRags (his own brother) [[FromRichesToRags former Nobles]] who they both experienced hell poverty and misery when the Celestial Dragons turn their backs on Earth alongside Doffy them and lost the same their mother. But on the other hand, Rocinate is everything his older brother Doffy Doflamingo isn't, he's an [[DoubleAgent undercover Marine]] while Doflamingo's is a infamous pirate, Rocinate is empathetic and cable of great love and loyalty for Law and Sengouku, while Doffy only moderately cares for his crew and treats every other person like their dirt beneath his feet. The biggest counterpoint is the fact Domflamingo could not forgo his Noble bigotry and superiority complex while Rocinate humbled himself completely and joined a better cause]].
27th Aug '17 11:31:23 PM Trustworthy69
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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].

to:

* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].



** Sanji gets a creepy counterpart in [[HauntedCastle Thriller Bark]] in the form of Invisible man [[InvisibleJerkAss Absalom]] from the QuirkyMinibossSquad. Sanji and Absalom bear many similarities to each other, both of them are blonde short-tempered pervs with a strong love for Navigator [[GoldDigger Nami]] also Sanji and Absalom both wanted the power of invisibility to peek on nude girls. But the similarities end there, personalty-wise Sanji is far better than Absalom, while Sanji is compassionate, charming and fearless. Absalom is cruel and down right malicious (even molesting poor Nami while she's a bathing) and cowardly too when Sanji finds out what Absalom has done he delivers a rage filled [[ExtremeMeleeRevenge beatdown]] on him in which Absalom tries to flee and uses [[DirtyCoward cheap tactics]] to get a advantage. Sanji soon sees that if he actually got the powers of invisibility he'd become no better than Absalom, so he gives up on it (though he still wants to peek on woman).

to:

** Sanji gets a creepy counterpart in [[HauntedCastle Thriller Bark]] in the form of Invisible man [[InvisibleJerkAss Absalom]] from the QuirkyMinibossSquad. Sanji and Absalom bear many similarities to each other, both of them are blonde short-tempered pervs with a strong crazed love for Navigator [[GoldDigger Nami]] Nami, also Sanji and Absalom both wanted the power of invisibility to peek on nude girls. But the similarities end there, personalty-wise Sanji is far better than Absalom, while Sanji is compassionate, charming and fearless. Absalom is cruel and down right malicious (even molesting poor Nami while she's a bathing) and cowardly too when Sanji finds out what Absalom has done he delivers a rage filled [[ExtremeMeleeRevenge beatdown]] on him in which Absalom tries to flee and uses [[DirtyCoward cheap tactics]] to get a an advantage. Sanji soon sees that if he actually got the powers of invisibility he'd become no better than Absalom, so he gives up on it (though he still wants to peek on woman).
27th Aug '17 11:28:05 PM Trustworthy69
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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].

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* {{Berserk}}, Guts and Griffith Griffith play this trope straight while also subverting it at the same time. Both characters were born in squalor and grew into the mercenary life which Griffith did so that he would one day claim a kingdom, while Guts had no choice but to earn his keep or starve. Both them at their [[CharlesAtlasSuperPower peak]] are MasterSwordsman and who are capable of leading the Band of Hawk [[note]] as Guts discovers when the former leader Griffith was rendered lame and crippled due to being tortured for a year [[/note]] and both Guts and Griffith each have a respective dream which they effectively ruin for each other. They both love [[CockFight the same woman]] as well as [[HoYay suggestible feelings]] for each other. And while they have plenty of connections the contrast is crystal clear as well, Guts is resembles the [[DarkIsNotEvil archetypal villain]] and often [[BloodKnight acts]] like it despite being TheHero. While Griffith is more [[UglyHeroGoodLookingVillain visually appealing]] than Guts and can be seen as the archetypal hero since Griffith is literally a KnightInShiningArmour but who is ultimately [[BigBad the villain]] due to his [[MoraleEventHorizon unforgivable actions]].



** But before Blackbeard even showed up in the story, [[ChessMaster Crododile]] was the first shadowy reflection of Luffy. Setting side the fact they're both leaders of a crew of misfits, Crocodile had the same dream of becoming pirate king as Luffy and they even have the same stitch scar-thing under their eyes (except Crocodile goes all cross his face) With that [[https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a9deed7095053e5a638a32b7a873c04/tumblr_n16z3mN5a21ttrzbeo1_500.jpg resemblance]] combined with the fact that Crocodile was apparently the "Luffy of his day" (according to WordOfGod) the similarities between these two are extremely uncanny. It's hinted that Crocodile can see it and tells Luffy that sooner or later his spirit will brake on his voyage same as his. And this is true Luffy became massively depressed when [[spoiler: Ace]] died and almost give up on being the pirate king if had not be for his [[AFriendInNeed friends]]

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** But before Blackbeard even showed up in the story, [[ChessMaster Crododile]] Crocodile]] was the first shadowy reflection of Luffy. Setting side the fact they're both leaders of a crew of misfits, Crocodile had the same dream of becoming pirate king as Luffy and they even have the same stitch scar-thing under their eyes (except Crocodile goes all cross his face) With that [[https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a9deed7095053e5a638a32b7a873c04/tumblr_n16z3mN5a21ttrzbeo1_500.jpg resemblance]] combined with the fact that Crocodile was apparently the "Luffy of his day" (according to WordOfGod) the similarities between these two are extremely uncanny. It's hinted that Crocodile can see it and tells Luffy that sooner or later his spirit will brake on his voyage same as his. And this is true Luffy became massively depressed when [[spoiler: Ace]] died and almost give up on being the pirate king if had not be for his [[AFriendInNeed friends]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=EvilCounterpart.AnimeAndManga