History DumbMuscle / TabletopGames

10th May '18 1:56:06 PM CaptainCrawdad
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* PlayedWith in TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost as a sterotype of [[OurGiantsAreBigger the]] [[TheOgre Ogre]] [[TouchedByVorlons Kith]]. Most Freehold leaders generally view new Ogres as this trope, and while there is occasionally some truth to this due to the Ogre's innate curse of getting less mentally adept as they grow magically powerful, it explicitly does not make them stupid. A genuinely dumb Ogre is actually extremely rare, and for good reason; few changelings escape from Arcadia and their True Fae captors with dumb muscle alone, and usually tricking the True Fae or bargaining their way out, and most sample Ogre characters in the books avert this trope.
** To paraphrase ''Winter Masques'', "A Gargantuan who spent forty years guarding the libraries of a Faerie Knight spent forty years [[BadassBookworm reading those tomes]]."
* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' plays with this; orks and trolls (races with higher physical stats) have lower intelligence ''caps'' than humans, elves and dwarves. Your average troll is no dumber than the average human, but trolls and orks can never be ''as'' smart as the highest possible peaks of human intellect. In the third edition intro to the races, the guest troll writer complains about the trope and claims that trolls and orks face discrimination and prejudice because everyone assumes this trope is true.
** Earlier editions stated that orks and trolls weren't dumber than humans, just ''slower''. As in, their thought processes were slower. Give a human and a similarly gifted troll an advanced mathematical problem and they'll both solve it, it'll just take the troll a bit longer.

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* PlayedWith in TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost as a sterotype of [[OurGiantsAreBigger the]] [[TheOgre Ogre]] [[TouchedByVorlons Kith]]. Most Freehold leaders generally view new Ogres as this trope, and while there is occasionally some truth to this due to the Ogre's innate curse of getting less mentally adept as they grow magically powerful, it explicitly does not make them stupid. A genuinely dumb Ogre is actually extremely rare, and for good reason; few changelings escape from Arcadia and their True Fae captors with dumb muscle alone, and usually tricking the True Fae or bargaining their way out, and most sample Ogre characters in the books avert this trope.
**
trope. To paraphrase ''Winter Masques'', "A Gargantuan who spent forty years guarding the libraries of a Faerie Knight spent forty years [[BadassBookworm reading those tomes]]."
* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' plays with this; orks and trolls (races with higher physical stats) have lower intelligence ''caps'' than humans, elves and dwarves. Your average troll is no dumber than the average human, but trolls and orks can never be ''as'' smart as the highest possible peaks of human intellect. In the third edition intro to the races, the guest troll writer complains about the trope and claims that trolls and orks face discrimination and prejudice because everyone assumes this trope is true.
**
true. Earlier editions stated that orks and trolls weren't dumber than humans, just ''slower''. As in, their thought processes were slower. Give a human and a similarly gifted troll an advanced mathematical problem and they'll both solve it, it'll just take the troll a bit longer.
9th May '18 1:22:23 AM SebastianGray
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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' there are lots of these. Orcs, trolls, kroxigors, sauruses and ogres can all be this.
** Orcs are about as smart as their futuristic counterparts below; just as loud, just as strong, and just as terribly dim to the point it's rare for them to use any tactic other than "violent melee charge".
** Trolls cannot think of anything that isn't their next meal, and that's [[ExtremeOmnivore a pretty easy decision as is due to how open it can be]].
** Ogres are not quite as bad as trolls, but they're still pretty dumb; ''maybe'' smarter than orcs in average, but only slightly. Their thoughts mostly concern violence and ways to inflict it, and most of all their next meal. To exemplify, the smartest ogre of all (Greasus Goldtooth), already clever to begin with plus wearing an intellect-enhancing crown, is explicitly described as ''almost''-human in intelligence.
* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', the semi-intelligent Fungal race, 'Da Orkz' fit this trope to a T. They're loud, they're strong, but they're not very bright. They do, however, tend to possess a certain animal cunning. In any case, Orkz which exhibit unusual intelligence are called 'Oddboyz', and would be outcast, if not for their obvious usefulness in a fight.
** Ogryns, who are humans who have evolved into being very tall and strong, at the expense of their intelligence (which is about the same as an average ork). To make a revealing example, the ogryn Nork Deddog is a genius by his race's standards, as he can write his first initial of his name, speak in full sentences, and count on up to four using his fingers (his thumb confuses him). The Imperium is quite fond of them due to their DumbIsGood philosophy, in addition to their great size and strength for a non-Space Marine human, making them powerful, loyal soldiers.
*** The small mind is easily filled with faith. One of the main reasons ogryns are allowed to join the Imperium and not destroyed as mutants is their unquestionable faith in Emperor. They are simply too dumb to think about betrayal. In cases of Chaos-corrupted ogryns it's always their leaders who turn to Chaos and then lie to ogryns. They still think they are fighting on the right side.

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' there are lots of these. Orcs, trolls, kroxigors, sauruses and ogres can all be this.
*Creator/GamesWorkshop games:
** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'':
***
Orcs are about as smart as their futuristic counterparts below; just as loud, just as strong, and just as terribly dim to the point it's rare for them to use any tactic other than "violent melee charge".
** *** Trolls cannot think of anything that isn't their next meal, and that's [[ExtremeOmnivore a pretty easy decision as is due to how open it can be]].
** *** Ogres are not quite as bad as trolls, but they're still pretty dumb; ''maybe'' smarter than orcs in average, but only slightly. Their thoughts mostly concern violence and ways to inflict it, and most of all their next meal. To exemplify, the smartest ogre of all (Greasus Goldtooth), already clever to begin with plus wearing an intellect-enhancing crown, is explicitly described as ''almost''-human in intelligence.
* ** In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', ''TabletopGame/BloodBowl'', most teams can hire at least one "Big Guy." With only a handful of exceptions, they all have either the Bone-head, Really Stupid, or Wild Animal traits, which means they are liable to stand around and do nothing for a turn. Even more of them have the loner trait, which means they can waste rerolls.
** ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'':
*** The
semi-intelligent Fungal race, 'Da Orkz' fit this trope to a T. They're loud, they're strong, but they're not very bright. They do, however, tend to possess a certain animal cunning. In any case, Orkz which exhibit unusual intelligence are called 'Oddboyz', and would be outcast, if not for their obvious usefulness in a fight.
** *** Ogryns, who are [[HumanSubspecies humans who have evolved into being very tall and strong, strong]], at the expense of their intelligence (which is about the same as an average ork). To make a revealing example, the ogryn Nork Deddog is a genius by his race's standards, as he can write his first initial of his name, speak in full sentences, and count on up to four using his fingers (his thumb confuses him). The Imperium is quite fond of them due to their DumbIsGood philosophy, in addition to their great size and strength for a non-Space Marine human, making them powerful, loyal soldiers.
*** The small mind is easily filled with faith.
soldiers. One of the main reasons ogryns are allowed to join the Imperium and not destroyed as mutants is their unquestionable faith in Emperor. They are simply too dumb to think about betrayal. In cases of Chaos-corrupted ogryns it's always their leaders who turn to Chaos and then lie to ogryns. They still think they are fighting on the right side.side.
** In ''TabletopGame/{{Necromunda}}'', [[HumanSubspecies abhuman]] [[LizardFolk Scalies]] are recruited into Scavvy Gangs for their considerable size and strength rather than for their, somewhat limited, intelligence. To represent this, the 2nd Edition rules for Scalies barred them from becoming a gang leader as their high Leadership represented the fact that they are unlikely to run away (due to being too stupid to understand the danger they are in) rather than their command abilities.



* In ''TabletopGame/BloodBowl'', most teams can hire at least one "Big Guy." With only a handful of exceptions, they all have either the Bone-head, Really Stupid, or Wild Animal traits, which means they are liable to stand around and do nothing for a turn. Even more of them have the loner trait, which means they can waste rerolls.
4th May '18 5:08:07 PM Pseudoname
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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'', any given type of enemy has examples ranging the whole gamut of challenge ratings. Howver, based on the rules for the different enemy types, animals can never have an intelligence score above two and oozes usually don't have an intelligence score at all. As such, they can pack a mean punch for players of any level but don't have the brainpower to back up their muscle.
14th Feb '18 4:17:43 AM Cryoclaste
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** The Orc god of strength [[ForgottenRealms Bahgtru]] is stupid even by Orc standards with one of his nicknames being "the awesomely stupid." He is so stupid, intelligence draining attacks have no effect since he cannot get any dumber. On the other hand he is so strong he is immune to strength draining spells and can bypass spells that protect from physical damage. Weapons and armor only slow him down, and he is never depicted using either in any myths, instead pummeling legions of enemies into paste with his bare hands; the symbol associated with him, a broken femur, comes from a famous orcish myth where he slew a giant, hundred-legged monster from another dimension by breaking all its legs.

to:

** The Orc god of strength [[ForgottenRealms [[TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms Bahgtru]] is stupid even by Orc standards with one of his nicknames being "the awesomely stupid." He is so stupid, intelligence draining attacks have no effect since he cannot get any dumber. On the other hand he is so strong he is immune to strength draining spells and can bypass spells that protect from physical damage. Weapons and armor only slow him down, and he is never depicted using either in any myths, instead pummeling legions of enemies into paste with his bare hands; the symbol associated with him, a broken femur, comes from a famous orcish myth where he slew a giant, hundred-legged monster from another dimension by breaking all its legs.
6th Jan '18 8:31:24 AM Lopiny
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Added DiffLines:

** Orcs are about as smart as their futuristic counterparts below; just as loud, just as strong, and just as terribly dim to the point it's rare for them to use any tactic other than "violent melee charge".
** Trolls cannot think of anything that isn't their next meal, and that's [[ExtremeOmnivore a pretty easy decision as is due to how open it can be]].
** Ogres are not quite as bad as trolls, but they're still pretty dumb; ''maybe'' smarter than orcs in average, but only slightly. Their thoughts mostly concern violence and ways to inflict it, and most of all their next meal. To exemplify, the smartest ogre of all (Greasus Goldtooth), already clever to begin with plus wearing an intellect-enhancing crown, is explicitly described as ''almost''-human in intelligence.
12th Nov '17 5:49:49 PM FordPrefect
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to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Paranoia}}'': Internal Security likes to promote these types straight to [[GreenAndMean Green]] clearance. The goons love the authority, plus they act as a HateSink to distract attention from their superiors. "You're thinking, 'They sound like orcs'. Nope-- these are orcs you're ''not allowed to kill''."
20th Aug '16 6:29:11 PM nombretomado
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** A lot of monsters fit the profile of dim-witted thugs, if you go by stereotypes, including ogres, hill giants, trolls, and minotaurs (except minotaurs on [[{{Dragonlance}} Krynn]], who can be rather smart).

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** A lot of monsters fit the profile of dim-witted thugs, if you go by stereotypes, including ogres, hill giants, trolls, and minotaurs (except minotaurs on [[{{Dragonlance}} [[Literature/{{Dragonlance}} Krynn]], who can be rather smart).
2nd Mar '16 4:41:47 AM LadyJaneGrey
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* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', most [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Demon Lords]] of the [[ChaoticEvil Abyss]] are {{Genius Bruiser}}s, [[TheChessmaster Chessmasters]], {{Magnificent Bastard}}s, or some combination there of. The exception is Kostchtchie, a PsychopathicManChild who may or may not have been a former [[OurGiantsAreBigger frost giant]], which is ironic as he's a textbook case of HotBlooded.
** Technically, his official statistics in at least one source list his Intelligence Score at 18. He's clearly not as smart as most other planar rulers, but that's better than the average human.

to:

* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', most ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'',
** Most
[[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Demon Lords]] of the [[ChaoticEvil Abyss]] are {{Genius Bruiser}}s, [[TheChessmaster Chessmasters]], {{Magnificent Bastard}}s, or some combination there of. The exception is Kostchtchie, a PsychopathicManChild who may or may not have been a former [[OurGiantsAreBigger frost giant]], which is ironic as he's a textbook case of HotBlooded.
** Technically,
HotBlooded. (Technically, his official statistics in at least one source list his Intelligence Score at 18. He's clearly not as smart as most other planar rulers, but that's better than the average human. )



** Of the ''classes'', Barbarians fit the mold better than any other. Before 4th Edition, anyone rolling a Barbarian had to spend points for their character to know how to ''read''. Naturally, the popular Half-Orc Barbarian is often both a mental midget and a paragon of power.
*** Meanwhile, the Fighter of 3.5 is actually something of an aversion: though they're free to dump mental stats, one of the best feats in a Fighter build, Improved Trip, requires an above-average Intelligence of at least 13.
** The Orc god of strength [[ForgottenRealms Bahgtru]] is stupid even by Orc standards with one of his nicknames being "the awesomely stupid." He is so stupid intelligence draining attacks have no effect since he cannot get any dumber. On the other hand he is so strong he is immune to strength draining spells and can bypass spells that protect from physical damage. He's so strong, weapons and armor only slow him down, and he is never depicted using either in any myths, instead pummeling legions of enemies into paste with his bare hands; the symbol associated with him, a broken femur, comes from a famous orcish myth where he slew a giant, hundred-legged monster from another dimension by breaking all its legs.

to:

** Of the ''classes'', Barbarians fit the mold better than any other. Before 4th Edition, anyone rolling a Barbarian had to spend points for their character to know how to ''read''. Naturally, the popular Half-Orc Barbarian is often both a mental midget and a paragon of power.
***
power. Meanwhile, the Fighter of 3.5 is actually something of an aversion: though they're free to dump mental stats, one of the best feats in a Fighter build, Improved Trip, requires an above-average Intelligence of at least 13.
** The Orc god of strength [[ForgottenRealms Bahgtru]] is stupid even by Orc standards with one of his nicknames being "the awesomely stupid." He is so stupid stupid, intelligence draining attacks have no effect since he cannot get any dumber. On the other hand he is so strong he is immune to strength draining spells and can bypass spells that protect from physical damage. He's so strong, weapons Weapons and armor only slow him down, and he is never depicted using either in any myths, instead pummeling legions of enemies into paste with his bare hands; the symbol associated with him, a broken femur, comes from a famous orcish myth where he slew a giant, hundred-legged monster from another dimension by breaking all its legs.
16th Mar '15 4:02:52 AM Divra
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Added DiffLines:

** Earlier editions stated that orks and trolls weren't dumber than humans, just ''slower''. As in, their thought processes were slower. Give a human and a similarly gifted troll an advanced mathematical problem and they'll both solve it, it'll just take the troll a bit longer.
15th Mar '15 7:36:17 AM LordGro
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** WordOfGod says the Orcs are a parody of the British football hooligans. Nigel Stillman is a great fan of TheBeautifulGame, and he loathes the hooligans. The Orcs are intended to be a comparison in intelligence to a brick what a brick is to the football hooligans.
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