History DracoInLeatherPants / ComicBooks

29th Apr '18 8:55:25 AM ACW
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Wolverine's ArchEnemy, Comic/{{Sabretooth}}, is an even more storied and flagrant Leather Pants recipient, despite being one of the most singularly deserving characters of the CompleteMonster label in all of comics. From [[WouldHitAGirl brutally murdering Wolverine's girlfriends]] to [[ManipulativeBastard playing on the above Daken's daddy issues]] to pit him against Wolverine and get him killed, to ''[[EatsBabies literally eating babies]]'', if there's a horrible act you can imagine there's a good chance Sabretooth has committed it. And yet, in spite of this truly heinous history, the character has been the recipient of ''multiple'' attempts to reform him, first as a VillainProtagonist who happened to be ALighterShadeOfGrey and then making him good outright via AWizardDidIt during the ''ComicBook/{{Axis}}'' storyline. Sabes has since reverted to his usual abhorrent personality, but given the above attempts and others it's a safe bet that it's a matter of time before the bullpen tries foisting a Leather Pantsed Sabretooth on readers again.

to:

** Wolverine's ArchEnemy, Comic/{{Sabretooth}}, is an even more storied and flagrant Leather Pants recipient, despite being one of the most singularly deserving characters of the CompleteMonster label in all of comics.recipient. From [[WouldHitAGirl brutally murdering Wolverine's girlfriends]] to [[ManipulativeBastard playing on the above Daken's daddy issues]] to pit him against Wolverine and get him killed, to ''[[EatsBabies literally eating babies]]'', if there's a horrible act you can imagine there's a good chance Sabretooth has committed it. And yet, in spite of this truly heinous history, the character has been the recipient of ''multiple'' attempts to reform him, first as a VillainProtagonist who happened to be ALighterShadeOfGrey and then making him good outright via AWizardDidIt during the ''ComicBook/{{Axis}}'' storyline. Sabes has since reverted to his usual abhorrent personality, but given the above attempts and others it's a safe bet that it's a matter of time before the bullpen tries foisting a Leather Pantsed Sabretooth on readers again.
10th Apr '18 11:30:21 AM zealots
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** This also happens to [[spoiler:Ozymandias]] a lot. Due to his noble intentions, there are some people who willing to rationalize his deeds [[spoiler:even after his mass murder of millions via [[ItMakesSenseInContezt psychic squid]]/Manhattan bomb]].

to:

** This also happens to [[spoiler:Ozymandias]] a lot. Due to his noble intentions, there are some people who willing to rationalize his deeds [[spoiler:even after his mass murder of millions via [[ItMakesSenseInContezt [[ItMakesSenseInContext psychic squid]]/Manhattan bomb]].
10th Apr '18 11:25:17 AM zealots
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The Juggernaut has been the victim of this since [[CanonDiscontinuity Chuck Austen]] got a hold of him. Despite being a mass-murderer, a terrorist (he did destroy one of the WTC towers) and a sociopath who cares nothing for all the death and destruction he has caused and mainly concerns himself with his own gratification. You get one writer who portrays him as [[RetCon not having killed anyone on purpose and is just a misunderstood bully]]. Then people come out of the wood work to explain his actions, going so far as to say him not actively doing something evil is proof of his heroic qualities that were there the whole time.
* Franchise/{{Batman}}:
** Jason Todd, [[StrawmanHasAPoint while not without reason]], was the main antagonist in ComicBook/BattleForTheCowl. While some may disagree with writer Tony Daniel's reasoning behind it, some are going as far to say he should have been Batman while Dick Grayson shouldn't. This despite the fact he was a Gun Toting Batman in the mini series and he willingly killed before that. The very thing the original would never have stood for. The fact that he was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in the ''WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood'' movie likely playing a part in it too. Many, many fangirls are completely willing to overlook or "justify" the fact that he has brutally murdered people by saying that his victims [[AssholeVictim deserved it]] or that he just needs a hug because ''he's just so cute and troubled!'' Fans get outraged whenever it's suggested, in-universe or out, that he should maybe be punished for his crimes. Because it's totally not ''his'' fault he picked that gun up and put a bullet in that dude's skull. It's played UpToEleven in the New 52, where even the writers attempt to portray him as a troubled anti-hero, despite his complete murderous past being intact.

to:

* The Juggernaut has been the victim of this since [[CanonDiscontinuity Chuck Austen]] got a hold of him. Despite being a mass-murderer, a terrorist (he did destroy one of the WTC towers) and a sociopath who cares nothing for all the death and destruction he has caused and mainly concerns himself with his own gratification. You get one writer who portrays him as [[RetCon not having killed anyone on purpose and is just a misunderstood bully]]. Then people come out of the wood work to explain his actions, going so far as to say him not actively doing something evil is proof of his heroic qualities that were there the whole time.
* Franchise/{{Batman}}:
''Franchise/{{Batman}}'':
** Jason Todd, [[StrawmanHasAPoint while not without reason]], was the main antagonist in ComicBook/BattleForTheCowl.[[BatFamilyCrossover BattleForTheCowl]]. While some may disagree with writer Tony Daniel's reasoning behind it, some are going as far to say he should have been Batman while Dick Grayson shouldn't. This despite the fact he was a Gun Toting Batman in the mini series and he willingly killed before that. The very thing the original would never have stood for. The fact that he was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in the ''WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood'' movie likely playing a part in it too. Many, many fangirls are completely willing to overlook or "justify" the fact that he has brutally murdered people by saying that his victims [[AssholeVictim deserved it]] or that he just needs a hug because ''he's just so cute and troubled!'' Fans get outraged whenever it's suggested, in-universe or out, that he should maybe be punished for his crimes. Because it's totally not ''his'' fault he picked that gun up and put a bullet in that dude's skull. It's played UpToEleven in the New 52, where even the writers attempt to portray him as a troubled anti-hero, despite his complete murderous past being intact.



* In the story "Mad Love," Harley Quinn was obviously believing this in-story about The Joker before her own descent into madness.
* Franchise/GreenLantern:

to:

* ** In the story "Mad Love," Harley Quinn was obviously believing this in-story about The Joker before her own descent into madness.
* Franchise/GreenLantern:ComicBook/DoctorDoom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent badass AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in ''Avengers: The Children's Crusade'' where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story ''Unthinkable'' where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]
** Doom is also an ''enormous'' beneficiary of this thanks to fans of his RunningTheAsylum who greatly emphasize his few positive traits while massively downplaying his many negative ones and portraying him as a sort of [[HobbesWasRight enlightened tyrant]] who would have brought peace and prosperity to the world a long time ago [[ReedRichardsIsUseless if not for that meddling Reed Richards]]. Stories portraying Doom in this way are almost too numerous to count (there have been novels!)
* Willy Pete from ''Comicbook/{{Empowered}}'' becomes an in-universe example of this after a video of him [[spoiler:massacring (and in some cases raping) nearly a dozen superheroes]] leaks to the internet. People begin drawing ''yaoi doujinshi'' of him and the heroes he either injured, raped, or killed. Even another female superhero speaks well of him and [[YaoiFangirl adoringly downloads the doujinshi]], brushing off his atrocities by saying that she didn't like the personalities of those he raped and killed anyway.
* ''Franchise/GreenLantern'':



* Ironically, ever since ''Comicbook/CivilWar'' and ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', Tony Stark's popularity has '''exploded''' among the fangirls. Granted, this may have something to do with the release of TheMovie, but the seemingly insane fannishness predates even that...but not by much, since while he was always popular ''before'' Civil War, he was a relatively obscure figure compared to the household names of the ComicBook/XMen and Franchise/SpiderMan. So [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys yeah...]]
* Madelyne Pryor, the [[CloningBlues clone of Jean Grey]], gets this as well. Part of it may be thanks to her initial portrayal as a [[BadassNormal strong-willed]], [[ActionGirl capable woman]], with an entire story arc set to establish that she was in fact ''not'' the reincarnation of the person she looked like ([[Creator/ChrisClaremont author's]] original intent notwithstanding). Part of it is '''definitely''' due to the [[MoralEventHorizon abandonment by her husband]] [[ExecutiveMeddling to lead another superhero team with said lookalike on it.]] Either way, people like to focus on the WomanScorned aspect of her characterization and not look at the part where a DrunkOnTheDarkSide Maddie threatened the life of half a dozen innocent children...[[OffingTheOffspring Including her own]].
* ComicBook/DarkReign gave Bullseye and Mac Gargan (Venom III) fangirls, thanks to the HoYay they had with Daken. For that matter, the Comicbook/DarkAvengers as a whole got this treatment from fans and Dark Avengers was a popular book. Hell, some fans say ComicBook/NormanOsborn did a better job as "top cop" than ComicBook/IronMan.
** Also, Moonstone. Even though she's a therapist who used to make her patients off themselves for fun and stole her superpowers from another patient, a lot of fans like her MagnificentBastard nature, and because, well, they find [[MsFanservice her]] [[EvilIsSexy damn sexy]].
* ComicBook/DoctorDoom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent badass AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]
* Willy Pete from ''Comicbook/{{Empowered}}'' becomes an in-universe example of this after a video of him [[spoiler:massacring (and in some cases raping) nearly a dozen superheroes]] leaks to the internet. People begin drawing ''yaoi doujinshi'' of him and the heroes he either injured, raped, or killed. Even another female superhero speaks well of him and [[YaoiFangirl adoringly downloads the doujinshi]], brushing off his atrocities by saying that she didn't like the personalities of those he raped and killed anyway.
* In the ComicBook/New52 reboot, ComicBook/TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.

to:

** Sinestro is an occasional beneficiary of this when writers RunningTheAsylum try playing up the "enlightened tyrant" angle played to much greater Leather Pants success with Doom above and Magneto below. Still, there are a few readers (and writers) who believe that Sinestro is a NecessarilyEvil ruler than the space Hitler {{Expy}} that the character has been very unsubtly coded as for most of history. His HoYay with Hal Jordan in recent years has ''not'' helped matters.
* ''Franchise/IronMan'':
**
Ironically, ever since ''Comicbook/CivilWar'' and ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', Tony Stark's popularity has '''exploded''' among the fangirls. Granted, this may have something to do with the release of TheMovie, but the seemingly insane fannishness predates even that...but not by much, since while he was always popular ''before'' Civil War, he was a relatively obscure figure compared to the household names of the ComicBook/XMen and Franchise/SpiderMan. So Franchise/SpiderMan, [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys yeah...]]
* Madelyne Pryor,
so, yeah.]] What makes Tony's ascension so amusing is how he was crafted ''from the [[CloningBlues clone of Jean Grey]], gets very start'' to have this as well. Part of it may be thanks effect on readers, being an ArmsDealer sold to her initial portrayal readers during the arms dealer-hating UsefulNotes/TheSixties as a [[BadassNormal strong-willed]], [[ActionGirl capable woman]], with an entire story arc set to establish that she was in fact ''not'' the reincarnation of the person she looked like ([[Creator/ChrisClaremont author's]] original intent notwithstanding). Part of it is '''definitely''' due to the [[MoralEventHorizon abandonment by her husband]] [[ExecutiveMeddling to lead another superhero team with said lookalike on it.]] Either way, people like to focus on the WomanScorned aspect of her characterization and not look at the part where a DrunkOnTheDarkSide Maddie threatened the life of half a dozen innocent children...[[OffingTheOffspring Including her own]].
* ComicBook/DarkReign gave Bullseye and Mac Gargan (Venom III) fangirls, thanks to the HoYay they had with Daken. For that matter, the Comicbook/DarkAvengers as a whole got this treatment from fans and Dark Avengers was a popular book. Hell, some fans say ComicBook/NormanOsborn did a better job as "top cop" than ComicBook/IronMan.
** Also, Moonstone. Even though she's a therapist who used to make her patients off themselves for fun and stole her superpowers from another patient, a lot of fans like her MagnificentBastard nature, and because, well, they find [[MsFanservice her]] [[EvilIsSexy damn sexy]].
* ComicBook/DoctorDoom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent badass AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]
* Willy Pete from ''Comicbook/{{Empowered}}'' becomes an in-universe example of this after a video of him [[spoiler:massacring (and in some cases raping) nearly a dozen superheroes]] leaks to the internet. People begin drawing ''yaoi doujinshi'' of him and the heroes he either injured, raped, or killed. Even another female superhero speaks well of him and [[YaoiFangirl adoringly downloads the doujinshi]], brushing off his atrocities by saying that she didn't like the personalities of those he raped and killed anyway.
* In the ComicBook/New52 reboot, ComicBook/TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.
hero.



* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a white-haired attractive pretty-boy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
** However, as ''Magneto: Not A Hero'' revealed in his TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to the resurrected Joseph, a) just because he's changed his methods does not mean he has changed his goals, b) he doesn't give a damn about 'hero' or 'villain' - "There is just what I want and how I'll get it." In other words, he's not gone soft, as such - he's just more of a hardcore AntiHero[=/=]AntiVillain these days.
** Even the more typically villainous incarnation in ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'', usually on the Heel side of the HeelFaceRevolvingDoor, is played as a sympathetic and cool TragicVillain by deeply charismatic CoolOldGuy Creator/IanMcKellen, and in the new timeline, by the similarly charismatic, [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys and handsome]], Creator/MichaelFassbender. This, plus the emphasis put on his backstory, and a hefty dose of EvilIsCool, means that he has a ''lot'' of fans.
* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
** ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story - including the daycare centre bombing - was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman; that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.
** More than a few have gone so far as to claim that, if not for Superman, Luthor would have created a utopia on Earth. This is ignoring the stories that show him pre-Superman as a full-on CorruptCorporateExecutive, or ''ComicBook/FiftyTwo'', where Superman being depowered for a year led to some of Luthor's [[MoralEventHorizon worst acts ever]]. The character of [[ComicBook/AllStarSuperman Leo Quintum]], a scientist who based revolutionary research on Superman's biology, was even created to counter this argument, showing that if Luthor really did want to advance humanity, Superman certainly wouldn't be stopping him.
* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[Creator/StanLee Stan]] and [[Creator/JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.
* [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] in ''Comicbook/{{Miracleman}}'' with the "Bateses", a subculture that identifies itself with the supervillain Kid Miracleman/Johnny Bates. This idolization occurs after Bates personally murders most of London and the surrounding countryside in grotesque and grisly fashion. We're talking grade-A horrific here, easily. This is likely a parody of real-life skinheads and Neo-Nazis, who became popular in Britain and greater Europe a generation or so after WWII.

to:

* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a white-haired attractive pretty-boy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
''ComicBook/TheMightyThor''
** However, as ''Magneto: Not A Hero'' revealed in his TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to the resurrected Joseph, a) just because he's changed his methods does not mean he has changed his goals, b) he doesn't give a damn about 'hero' or 'villain' - "There is just what I want and how I'll get it." In other words, he's not gone soft, as such - he's just more of a hardcore AntiHero[=/=]AntiVillain these days.
** Even the more typically villainous incarnation in ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'', usually on the Heel side of the HeelFaceRevolvingDoor, is played as a sympathetic and cool TragicVillain by deeply charismatic CoolOldGuy Creator/IanMcKellen, and in the new timeline, by the similarly charismatic, [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys and handsome]], Creator/MichaelFassbender. This, plus the emphasis put on his backstory, and a hefty dose of EvilIsCool, means that he has a ''lot'' of fans.
* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
** ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story - including the daycare centre bombing - was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman; that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.
** More than a few have gone so far as to claim that, if not for Superman, Luthor would have created a utopia on Earth. This is ignoring the stories that show him pre-Superman as a full-on CorruptCorporateExecutive, or ''ComicBook/FiftyTwo'', where Superman being depowered for a year led to some of Luthor's [[MoralEventHorizon worst acts ever]]. The character of [[ComicBook/AllStarSuperman Leo Quintum]], a scientist who based revolutionary research on Superman's biology, was even created to counter this argument, showing that if Luthor really did want to advance humanity, Superman certainly wouldn't be stopping him.
*
A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[Creator/StanLee Stan]] and [[Creator/JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.
Thor. Note also that Loki has been receiving a ''lot'' more of this in recent years as a byproduct of his [[Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse successful adaptation]] to the silver screen.
* ''Comicbook/{{Miracleman}}''
**
[[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] in ''Comicbook/{{Miracleman}}'' with the "Bateses", a subculture that identifies itself with the supervillain Kid Miracleman/Johnny Bates. This idolization occurs after Bates personally murders most of London and the surrounding countryside in grotesque and grisly fashion. We're talking grade-A horrific here, easily. This is likely a parody of real-life skinheads and Neo-Nazis, who became popular in Britain and greater Europe a generation or so after WWII.WWII.
* In the ComicBook/New52 reboot, ComicBook/TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.



* Second long-running main villain Negan in ''Comicbook/TheWalkingDead'' is arguably the comic's most loved character mostly driven simply by his [[MagnificentBastard charisma and intelligence]]. It doesn't take long on a website dedicated to the comics side of the franchise to spot numerous fans of Negan, even if the character's introduction already sees him [[spoiler:brutally murdering fan-favorite Glenn, a character that has been with the readers since the very beginning of the series]].



** Comicbook/NormanOsborn has his fair share of, hum, "entusiasthic" fans; raging from writers trying to excuse his crimes and despicable attitude by giving him a tragic backstory, or the kinky fans who fantasize about him and his random rendevouz (see "Sins Past", or how he seems to have gotten a little more...active with the ladies ever since he returned from the dead).
* ''Comicbook/TeenTitans'' has Eric Forrester, an "emotional vampire" type of villain in a late '80s arc who preyed on women and would drain them of their souls for power, after making them sleep with him. While even the story states that he didn't really love Raven and was only using her as his next victim, it hasn't stopped a group of fans from portraying Eric as just a misunderstood, nice young man who would be cured by having Raven as his girlfriend.

to:

** Comicbook/NormanOsborn has his fair share of, hum, "entusiasthic" "enthusiastic" fans; raging from writers trying to excuse his crimes and despicable attitude by giving him a tragic backstory, or the kinky fans who fantasize about him and his random rendevouz (see "Sins Past", or how he seems to have gotten a little more...active with the ladies ever since he returned from the dead).
* ''Comicbook/TeenTitans'' ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'':
** ComicBook/LexLuthor
has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story - including the daycare centre bombing - was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman; that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.
** More than a few have gone so far as to claim that, if not for Superman, Luthor would have created a utopia on Earth. This is ignoring the stories that show him pre-Superman as a full-on CorruptCorporateExecutive, or ''ComicBook/FiftyTwo'', where Superman being depowered for a year led to some of Luthor's [[MoralEventHorizon worst acts ever]]. The character of [[ComicBook/AllStarSuperman Leo Quintum]], a scientist who based revolutionary research on Superman's biology, was even created to counter this argument, showing that if Luthor really did want to advance humanity, Superman certainly wouldn't be stopping him.
* ''Franchise/TeenTitans'':
**
Eric Forrester, an "emotional vampire" "[[EmotionEater emotional vampire]]" type of villain in a late '80s arc who preyed on women and would drain them of their souls for power, [[MoreThanMindControl after making them sleep with him.him]]. While even the story states that he didn't really love Raven and was only using her as his next victim, it hasn't stopped a group of fans from portraying Eric as just a misunderstood, nice young man who would be cured by having Raven as his girlfriend.



** Speaking of Deathstroke, he himself has also had this applied to him by fans. Much of it came because after George Perez left the series, Marv Wolfman himself applied it to Deathstroke, treating him as legitimate AntiVillain with a code of honor who was just caught in a bad situation and didn't truly want to kill the Titans, allowing him to become an AntiHero and friendly ally of their's even though none of this jived well with his previous characterization from when Perez was still on board, in which he was a ruthless and greedy assassin who would stoop to taking innocent hostages and being psychologically manipulative, who ''created'' the whole treachery plan that Terra executed, and who very clearly ''wanted'' to kill the Titans since he blamed the Titans for the death of his oldest son [[NeverMyFault rather than take responsibility for it himself.]] Even after he eventually was turned back into a villain who has done even more terrible things, there are still many fans who cling to the idea of him being an honorable and moral person.
** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''ComicBook/SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she gleefully wiped out an entire Middle Eastern country with a stolen nuke, that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.

to:

** Speaking of Deathstroke, he himself has also had this applied to him by fans. Much of it came because after George Perez left the series, [[RunningTheAsylum Marv Wolfman himself applied it to Deathstroke, Deathstroke]], treating him as legitimate AntiVillain with a code of honor who was just caught in a bad situation and didn't truly want to kill the Titans, allowing him to become an AntiHero and friendly ally of their's theirs even though none of this jived well with his previous characterization from when Perez was still on board, in which he was a ruthless and greedy assassin who would stoop to taking innocent hostages and being psychologically manipulative, who ''created'' the whole treachery plan that Terra executed, and who very clearly ''wanted'' to kill the Titans since he blamed the Titans for the death of his oldest son [[NeverMyFault rather than take responsibility for it himself.]] Even after he eventually was turned back into a villain who has done even more terrible things, there are still many fans (and writers) who cling to the idea of him being an honorable and moral person.
** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''ComicBook/SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide gleefully wiped out an an]] ''[[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide entire Middle Eastern country country]]'' [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide with a stolen nuke, nuke]], that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.qualities.
* ''ComicBook/{{Thunderbolts}}'':
** ComicBook/DarkReign gave Bullseye and Mac Gargan (Venom III) fangirls, thanks to the HoYay they had with Daken (you can read more on him below). For that matter, the Comicbook/DarkAvengers as a whole got this treatment from fans and Dark Avengers was a popular book. Hell, some fans say ComicBook/NormanOsborn did a better job as "top cop" than ComicBook/IronMan.
** Also, Moonstone. Even though she's a therapist who used to make her patients off themselves for fun and stole her superpowers from another patient, a lot of fans like her ManipulativeBastard nature, and because, well, they find [[MsFanservice her]] [[EvilIsSexy damn sexy]]. These fans tend to brush off or otherwise ignore that, unlike other characters who are all but endorsed as Leather Pants wearers by the writers themselves, Moonstone is consistently portrayed as a SmugSnake who [[BigBadWannabe greatly overestimates her own competence]] and becomes a one-trick pony with no cards to play when her usual ManipulativeBastard gambits fail.
** Baron Zemo, like Dr. Doom above, is an example of a Draco caused by writers RunningTheAsylum who fell in love with the character and genuinely began to buy his own sell. The original Baron, Heinrich Zemo was a stock NaziNobleman archetype, while the Zemo of ''Thunderbolts'' was Heinrich's son Helmut, a LegacyCharacter whose original goal was AvengingTheVillain. He originally created the Thunderbolts for this purpose, until he and his team all began BecomingTheMask and liking the idea of being heroes. Since that series Zemo has become much more of a WellIntentionedExtremist who, like Doom above, is written as being so enlightened that he probably ''could'' bring about a peaceful era if only the heroes of the Marvel Universe (and his own ego) would stop getting in his way.
* ''Comicbook/TheWalkingDead'':
** Second long-running main villain Negan is arguably the comic's most loved character mostly driven simply by his [[MagnificentBastard charisma and intelligence]]. It doesn't take long on a website dedicated to the comics side of the franchise to spot numerous fans of Negan, even if the character's introduction already sees him [[spoiler:brutally murdering fan-favorite Glenn, a character that has been with the readers since the very beginning of the series]].



** This also happens to [[spoiler:Ozymandias]] a lot. Due to his noble intentions, there were some people who were willing to rationalize his deeds [[spoiler: even after his mass murder]]
* ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'s son {{ComicBook/Daken}} gets a lot of this, even though he kills his lovers (both men and women) for shits and giggles. Doesn't help that his justification is [[ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} his father's]] [[DisappearedDad absence from his life]]. Fans who identify with his [[WellDoneSonGuy misplaced rage]] against said father, or the position [[SpotlightStealingSquad said father fills]] on his team, or maybe just like the idea of an [[NoBisexuals explicitly bisexual]] [[{{Expy}} version]] of their favorite badass, flock to him in throngs. In the first issue of his 2010 ongoing [[spoiler: it's strongly suggested that Daken raped a female assassin sent to kill him]]. [[BrokenBase Fandom has broken into three parts]] - those who deny it [[spoiler: saying he just mocked her before delivering the killing blow]], those who are disgusted by it and... some [[UnfortunateImplications really sick individuals]] saying that [[spoiler: she deserved it]].
** [[http://io9.com/5807707/why-wolverines-smelly-son-shows-the-true-dark-side-of-the-romantic-hero This article]] argues convincingly that Daken is a deliberate deconstruction of this character trope: he's the dark romantic hero ''without'' a wounded soul to protect.

to:

** This also happens to [[spoiler:Ozymandias]] a lot. Due to his noble intentions, there were are some people who were willing to rationalize his deeds [[spoiler: even [[spoiler:even after his mass murder]]
murder of millions via [[ItMakesSenseInContezt psychic squid]]/Manhattan bomb]].
* ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'s ''ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'':
** Wolverine's
son {{ComicBook/Daken}} gets a lot of this, even though he kills his lovers (both men and women) for shits and giggles. Doesn't help that his justification is [[ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} his father's]] [[DisappearedDad absence from his life]]. Fans who identify with his [[WellDoneSonGuy misplaced rage]] against said father, or the position [[SpotlightStealingSquad said father fills]] on his team, or maybe just like the idea of an [[NoBisexuals explicitly bisexual]] [[{{Expy}} version]] of their favorite badass, flock to him in throngs. In the first issue of his 2010 ongoing [[spoiler: it's strongly suggested that Daken raped a female assassin sent to kill him]]. [[BrokenBase Fandom has broken into three parts]] - those who deny it [[spoiler: saying he just mocked her before delivering the killing blow]], those who are disgusted by it and... some [[UnfortunateImplications really sick individuals]] saying that [[spoiler: she deserved it]].
**
it]]. [[http://io9.com/5807707/why-wolverines-smelly-son-shows-the-true-dark-side-of-the-romantic-hero This article]] argues convincingly that Daken is a deliberate deconstruction of this character trope: he's the dark romantic hero ''without'' a wounded soul to protect.protect.
** Wolverine's ArchEnemy, Comic/{{Sabretooth}}, is an even more storied and flagrant Leather Pants recipient, despite being one of the most singularly deserving characters of the CompleteMonster label in all of comics. From [[WouldHitAGirl brutally murdering Wolverine's girlfriends]] to [[ManipulativeBastard playing on the above Daken's daddy issues]] to pit him against Wolverine and get him killed, to ''[[EatsBabies literally eating babies]]'', if there's a horrible act you can imagine there's a good chance Sabretooth has committed it. And yet, in spite of this truly heinous history, the character has been the recipient of ''multiple'' attempts to reform him, first as a VillainProtagonist who happened to be ALighterShadeOfGrey and then making him good outright via AWizardDidIt during the ''ComicBook/{{Axis}}'' storyline. Sabes has since reverted to his usual abhorrent personality, but given the above attempts and others it's a safe bet that it's a matter of time before the bullpen tries foisting a Leather Pantsed Sabretooth on readers again.
* ''Franchise/XMen'':
** The Juggernaut has been the victim of this since [[CanonDiscontinuity Chuck Austen]] got a hold of him. Despite being a mass-murderer, a terrorist (he did destroy one of the WTC towers) and a sociopath who cares nothing for all the death and destruction he has caused and mainly concerns himself with his own gratification. You get one writer who portrays him as [[RetCon not having killed anyone on purpose and is just a misunderstood bully]]. Then people come out of the wood work to explain his actions, going so far as to say him not actively doing something evil is proof of his heroic qualities that were there the whole time.
** Madelyne Pryor, the [[CloningBlues clone of Jean Grey]], gets this as well. Part of it may be thanks to her initial portrayal as a [[BadassNormal strong-willed]], [[ActionGirl capable woman]], with an entire story arc set to establish that she was in fact ''not'' the reincarnation of the person she looked like ([[Creator/ChrisClaremont author's]] original intent notwithstanding). Part of it is '''definitely''' due to the [[MoralEventHorizon abandonment by her husband]] [[ExecutiveMeddling to lead another superhero team with said lookalike on it.]] Either way, people like to focus on the WomanScorned aspect of her characterization and not look at the part where a DrunkOnTheDarkSide Maddie threatened the life of half a dozen innocent children...[[OffingTheOffspring Including her own]].
** Without a doubt, though, the ''archetypal'' X-Men Draco is Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy SuperVillain into a [[TheExtremistWasRight sane]], [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and [[WickedCultured cultured]] WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[MonsterSobStory Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a white-haired attractive pretty-boy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
*** However, as of ''Magneto: Not A Hero'' revealed in his TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to the resurrected Joseph, a) just because he's changed his methods does not mean he has changed his goals, b) he doesn't give a damn about 'hero' or 'villain' - "There is just what I want and how I'll get it." In other words, he's not gone soft, as such - he's just more of a hardcore AntiHero[=/=]AntiVillain these days.
*** Even the more typically villainous incarnation in ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'', usually on the Heel side of the HeelFaceRevolvingDoor, is played as a sympathetic and cool TragicVillain by deeply charismatic CoolOldGuy Creator/IanMcKellen, and in the new timeline, by the similarly charismatic, [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys and handsome]], Creator/MichaelFassbender. This, plus the emphasis put on his backstory, and a hefty dose of EvilIsCool, means that he has a ''lot'' of fans.
16th Mar '18 3:31:06 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** This is especially {{egregious}} in ComicBook/{{the Joker}}'s case since he's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.

to:

*** This is especially {{egregious}} {{JustForFun/egregious}} in ComicBook/{{the Joker}}'s case since he's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.
15th Feb '18 10:26:42 AM XFllo
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a WhiteHairedPrettyBoy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.

to:

* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a WhiteHairedPrettyBoy white-haired attractive pretty-boy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
3rd Feb '18 1:20:18 PM DarkPhoenix94
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from EvilIsUgly to someone looking very good for his age (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a WhiteHairedPrettyBoy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.

to:

* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from EvilIsUgly [[EvilMakesYouUgly typically villainously ugly]] to someone looking very good for his age a SilverFox (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a WhiteHairedPrettyBoy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
3rd Feb '18 1:18:12 PM DarkPhoenix94
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/XMen'' has perhaps the archetypal example in Magneto, largely thanks to Creator/ChrisClaremont transforming him from standard ranting AxCrazy supervillain into a sane, [[AffablyEvil polite]], eloquent and cultured WellIntentionedExtremist, as well as a [[DarkAndTroubledPast Holocaust survivor]] determined to prevent mutants from suffering the same fate as the Jews, who regretted having to fight the X-Men and even joined them for a while. He was also rendered ProgressivelyPrettier, with a deaging incident or two, that turned him from EvilIsUgly to someone looking very good for his age (he even has a six-pack), even ultimately getting a WhiteHairedPrettyBoy clone (believed for a time to be a deaged and innocently amnesiac Magneto) called Joseph who ended up hooking up with Rogue. As a result, Claremont's characterisation became the predominant one for Magneto, with more classically villainous moments being [[{{Retcon}} retconned]] as his powers driving him insane, outside influence, etcetera. He even joined the X-Men following ''ComicBook/HouseOfM''.
** However, as ''Magneto: Not A Hero'' revealed in his TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to the resurrected Joseph, a) just because he's changed his methods does not mean he has changed his goals, b) he doesn't give a damn about 'hero' or 'villain' - "There is just what I want and how I'll get it." In other words, he's not gone soft, as such - he's just more of a hardcore AntiHero[=/=]AntiVillain these days.
** Even the more typically villainous incarnation in ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'', usually on the Heel side of the HeelFaceRevolvingDoor, is played as a sympathetic and cool TragicVillain by deeply charismatic CoolOldGuy Creator/IanMcKellen, and in the new timeline, by the similarly charismatic, [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys and handsome]], Creator/MichaelFassbender. This, plus the emphasis put on his backstory, and a hefty dose of EvilIsCool, means that he has a ''lot'' of fans.
18th Dec '17 8:31:54 PM KingClark
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In the ComicBook/New52 reboot, ComicBook//TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.

to:

* In the ComicBook/New52 reboot, ComicBook//TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.
29th Apr '17 10:33:43 PM Isaac_Heller
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The original Terra gets this as well. Part of it is due to UnfortunateImplications of her being portrayed as sociopathic ''and'' promiscuous at her young age to show how "evil" she was (enough to sleep with the middle-aged Deathstroke), while another part is due to some fans holding the idea that she could have been rehabilitated and redeemed of her hate by the Titans. A retcon by Brad Meltzer also cast Terra as a victim of circumstance, driven to insanity by Deathstroke drugging her. Even keeping that in mind, there are fans that will ignore that Terra deliberately murdered Beast Boy's first adoptive father (King Tawaba), and that she was also a dangerous manipulator before she'd even met Deathstroke.

to:

** The original Terra gets this as well. Part of it is due to UnfortunateImplications of her being portrayed as sociopathic ''and'' promiscuous at her young age to show how "evil" she was (enough to sleep with the middle-aged Deathstroke), while another part is due to some fans holding the idea that she could have been rehabilitated and redeemed of her hate by the Titans. A retcon by Brad Meltzer also cast Terra as a victim of circumstance, driven to insanity by Deathstroke drugging her. Even keeping that in mind, there are fans that will ignore that Terra deliberately quite possibly murdered Beast Boy's first adoptive father (King Tawaba), Tawaba)[[note]]Deathstroke mentions that she did it off-panel, but it's never brought up again afterward[[/note]], and that she was also a dangerous manipulator before she'd even met Deathstroke.Deathstroke.
** Speaking of Deathstroke, he himself has also had this applied to him by fans. Much of it came because after George Perez left the series, Marv Wolfman himself applied it to Deathstroke, treating him as legitimate AntiVillain with a code of honor who was just caught in a bad situation and didn't truly want to kill the Titans, allowing him to become an AntiHero and friendly ally of their's even though none of this jived well with his previous characterization from when Perez was still on board, in which he was a ruthless and greedy assassin who would stoop to taking innocent hostages and being psychologically manipulative, who ''created'' the whole treachery plan that Terra executed, and who very clearly ''wanted'' to kill the Titans since he blamed the Titans for the death of his oldest son [[NeverMyFault rather than take responsibility for it himself.]] Even after he eventually was turned back into a villain who has done even more terrible things, there are still many fans who cling to the idea of him being an honorable and moral person.
4th Mar '17 8:18:02 AM narm00
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** There are way too many fangirls out there who claim that they want to be Harley Quinn for the Joker, a number that has only grown with the release of ''Film/TheDarkKnight''. Harley was originally created as a parody of this, then became a PossessionSue for a surprising number of people. And while there are certainly good reasons to feel sorry for her, she's still a murderer in her own right and utterly fixated on the Joker - a fixation which he himself has gone to some efforts to maintain.
*** This is especially {{egregious}} in the Joker's case since he's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.
** Really Batman's RoguesGallery gets this treatment (arguably) more then any other RoguesGallery in comic history. Besides Harley and Joker as previously mentioned other candidates include Poison Ivy, Two-Face, Mister Freeze, really it would be easier to list the members that don't get this treatment. And while many of them are Tragic Villains or AntiVillains that [[EvenEvilHasStandards do show standards]] from time to time that's ignoring that even the most sympathetic villains (such as the aforementioned Mister Freeze) are often unrepentant murderers who do terrible things for selfish reasons.
* GreenLantern:

to:

** There are way too many fangirls out there who claim that they want to be Harley Quinn ComicBook/HarleyQuinn for the Joker, a number that has only grown with the release of ''Film/TheDarkKnight''. Harley was originally created as a parody of this, then became a PossessionSue for a surprising number of people. And while there are certainly good reasons to feel sorry for her, she's still a murderer in her own right and utterly very much fixated on the Joker - a fixation which he himself has gone to some efforts to maintain.
*** This is especially {{egregious}} in the Joker's ComicBook/{{the Joker}}'s case since he's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.
** Really Batman's RoguesGallery gets this treatment (arguably) more then any other RoguesGallery in comic history. Besides Harley and Joker as previously mentioned other candidates include Poison Ivy, Two-Face, ComicBook/PoisonIvy, ComicBook/TwoFace, Mister Freeze, really it would be easier to list the members that don't get this treatment. And while many of them are Tragic Villains or AntiVillains that [[EvenEvilHasStandards do show standards]] from time to time that's ignoring that even the most sympathetic villains (such as the aforementioned Mister Freeze) are often unrepentant murderers who do terrible things for selfish reasons.
* GreenLantern:In the story "Mad Love," Harley Quinn was obviously believing this in-story about The Joker before her own descent into madness.
* Franchise/GreenLantern:



* Doctor Doom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent badass AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]

to:

* Doctor Doom ComicBook/DoctorDoom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent badass AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]



* In the [=DCnU=] reboot, SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.

to:

* In the [=DCnU=] ComicBook/New52 reboot, SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook//TheJoker becomes an in-universe example after he disappears leaving only his face behind while Franchise/{{Batman}} suffers in-universe RonTheDeathEater treatment. Suddenly Gothamites think ''Joker'' is a sympathetic murder victim and ''Batman'' is a heartless murderer who needs to be brought to justice. Somewhat retconned, in that it's later revealed that a significant amount of the protest in question was made up of people who usually either form his henchmen, or use his sprees as an excuse to go AxeCrazy.



** Jhonen Vasquez seems to have an accidental habit of making these. His first creation, Johnny C has an '''insane''' amount of fangirls who claim that he's [[TheWoobie just misunderstood and lonely]]. It's true: most of Nny's prominent victims are {{asshole|Victim}}s, the world is decidedly {{Crapsack|World}}, and he ''does'' get a few PetTheDog moments (notably with Squee). Yet this overlooks that Johnny is schizophrenic, psychotic, sociopathic, and AxCrazy; that he killed an entire restaurant full of people because [[RantInducingSlight someone said he "looked wacky"]]; he has entire torture chambers in his TortureCellar that contain who-knows-how-many people; he tried to ''murder the one girl who really liked him'' and drove her to become a recluse and hide in her apartment almost 24/7 out of paranoia; and he has killed numerous people for various insane reasons.

to:

** Jhonen Vasquez seems to have an accidental habit of making these. His first creation, creation Johnny C has an '''insane''' amount of fangirls who claim that he's [[TheWoobie just misunderstood and lonely]]. It's true: most of Nny's prominent victims are {{asshole|Victim}}s, the world is decidedly {{Crapsack|World}}, and he ''does'' get a few PetTheDog moments (notably with Squee). Yet this overlooks that Johnny is schizophrenic, psychotic, sociopathic, and AxCrazy; that he killed an entire restaurant full of people because [[RantInducingSlight someone said he "looked wacky"]]; he has entire torture chambers in his TortureCellar that contain who-knows-how-many people; he tried to ''murder the one girl who really liked him'' and drove her to become a recluse and hide in her apartment almost 24/7 out of paranoia; and he has killed numerous people for various insane reasons.



** ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- including the daycare centre bombing- was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.

to:

** ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- story - including the daycare centre bombing- bombing - was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- Superman; that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.



* In the story "Mad Love," Harley Quinn was obviously believing this in-story about The Joker before her own descent into madness.



* ''{{Spiderman}}'':

to:

* ''{{Spiderman}}'':''ComicBook/{{Spiderman}}'':



** Peter's MeanBoss at ''The Daily Bugle'' J. Jonah Jameson is an odd case. Fans usually side with Spidey whenever he acts like an UngratefulBastard and unfairly makes accusations against the hero. (Usually.) However, if there is even a hint that Jonah has been kidnapped, hurt, conned, or - God forbid - killed, fans never fail to send in mail showing support, concern, or outrage, whichever is appropriate. (It seems that, Jonah is thorn in the hero's side that fans just ''don't'' want to see go away.)

to:

** Peter's MeanBoss at ''The Daily Bugle'' J. Jonah Jameson is an odd case. Fans usually side with Spidey whenever he acts like an UngratefulBastard and unfairly makes accusations against the hero. (Usually.) However, if there is even a hint that Jonah has been kidnapped, hurt, conned, or - God forbid - killed, fans never fail to send in mail showing support, concern, or outrage, whichever is appropriate. (It seems that, that Jonah is a thorn in the hero's side that fans just ''don't'' want to see go away.)



* {{Wolverine}}'s son {{ComicBook/Daken}} gets a lot of this, even though he kills his lovers (both men and women) for shits and giggles. Doesn't help that his justification is [[{{Wolverine}} his father's]] [[DisappearedDad absence from his life]]. Fans who identify with his [[WellDoneSonGuy misplaced rage]] against said father, or the position [[SpotlightStealingSquad said father fills]] on his team, or maybe just like the idea of an [[NoBisexuals explicitly bisexual]] [[{{Expy}} version]] of their favorite badass, flock to him in throngs. In the first issue of his new ongoing [[spoiler: it's strongly suggested that Daken raped a female asassian sent to kill him]]. [[BrokenBase Fandom has broken into three parts]] - those who deny it [[spoiler: saying he just mocked her before delivering the killing blow]], those who are disgusted by it and... some [[UnfortunateImplications really sick individuals]] saying that [[spoiler: she deserved it]].

to:

* {{Wolverine}}'s ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'s son {{ComicBook/Daken}} gets a lot of this, even though he kills his lovers (both men and women) for shits and giggles. Doesn't help that his justification is [[{{Wolverine}} [[ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} his father's]] [[DisappearedDad absence from his life]]. Fans who identify with his [[WellDoneSonGuy misplaced rage]] against said father, or the position [[SpotlightStealingSquad said father fills]] on his team, or maybe just like the idea of an [[NoBisexuals explicitly bisexual]] [[{{Expy}} version]] of their favorite badass, flock to him in throngs. In the first issue of his new 2010 ongoing [[spoiler: it's strongly suggested that Daken raped a female asassian assassin sent to kill him]]. [[BrokenBase Fandom has broken into three parts]] - those who deny it [[spoiler: saying he just mocked her before delivering the killing blow]], those who are disgusted by it and... some [[UnfortunateImplications really sick individuals]] saying that [[spoiler: she deserved it]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 165. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DracoInLeatherPants.ComicBooks