History DracoInLeatherPants / ComicBooks

13th Oct '16 9:43:29 AM narm00
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** Jason Todd, [[StrawmanHasAPoint while not without reason]], was the main antagonist in Battle for the Cowl. While some may disagree with writer Tony Daniel's reasoning behind it, some are going as far to say he should have been Batman while Dick Grayson shouldn't. This despite the fact he was a Gun Toting Batman in the mini series and he willingly killed before that. The very thing the original would never have stood for. The fact that he was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in the ''WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood'' movie likely playing a part in it too. Many, many fangirls are completely willing to overlook or "justify" the fact that he has brutally murdered people by saying that his victims [[AssholeVictim deserved it]] or that he just needs a hug because ''he's just so cute and troubled!'' Fans get outraged whenever it's suggested, in-universe or out, that he should maybe be punished for his crimes. Because it's totally not ''his'' fault he picked that gun up and put a bullet in that dude's skull. It's played UpToEleven in the New 52, where even the writers attempt to portray him as a troubled anti-hero, despite his complete murderous past being intact.

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** Jason Todd, [[StrawmanHasAPoint while not without reason]], was the main antagonist in Battle for the Cowl.ComicBook/BattleForTheCowl. While some may disagree with writer Tony Daniel's reasoning behind it, some are going as far to say he should have been Batman while Dick Grayson shouldn't. This despite the fact he was a Gun Toting Batman in the mini series and he willingly killed before that. The very thing the original would never have stood for. The fact that he was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in the ''WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood'' movie likely playing a part in it too. Many, many fangirls are completely willing to overlook or "justify" the fact that he has brutally murdered people by saying that his victims [[AssholeVictim deserved it]] or that he just needs a hug because ''he's just so cute and troubled!'' Fans get outraged whenever it's suggested, in-universe or out, that he should maybe be punished for his crimes. Because it's totally not ''his'' fault he picked that gun up and put a bullet in that dude's skull. It's played UpToEleven in the New 52, where even the writers attempt to portray him as a troubled anti-hero, despite his complete murderous past being intact.



** There are way too many fangirls out there who claim that they want to be Harley Quinn for the Joker, a number that has only grown with the release of ''TheDarkKnight''. Harley was originally created as a parody of this, then became a PossessionSue for a surprising number of people. And while there are certainly good reasons to feel sorry for her, she's still a murderer in her own right and utterly fixated on the Joker - a fixation which he himself has gone to some efforts to maintain.
*** This is especially {{Egregious}} in The Joker's case since while almost every villain in Batman's RoguesGallery, such as Harley, tend to have Sympathetic qualities or [[TragicVillain tragic backstory's]] The Joker has none. He's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.

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** There are way too many fangirls out there who claim that they want to be Harley Quinn for the Joker, a number that has only grown with the release of ''TheDarkKnight''.''Film/TheDarkKnight''. Harley was originally created as a parody of this, then became a PossessionSue for a surprising number of people. And while there are certainly good reasons to feel sorry for her, she's still a murderer in her own right and utterly fixated on the Joker - a fixation which he himself has gone to some efforts to maintain.
*** This is especially {{Egregious}} {{egregious}} in The the Joker's case since while almost every villain in Batman's RoguesGallery, such as Harley, tend to have Sympathetic qualities or [[TragicVillain tragic backstory's]] The Joker has none. He's he's easily the biggest monster Batman regularly goes up against, has crossed the MoralEventHorizon multiple times, and is a complete [[TheSociopath sociopath]] to boot. Despite this many fans are willing to ignore this thanks to his [[EvilIsCool charisma]], his [[MagnificentBastard intellect]], his [[LaughablyEvil funny lines]] and for having [[BadassInANiceSuit a nice suit]] to boot.
23rd Jun '16 5:34:46 AM Tron80
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** It can also be argued that the [[{{Flanderization}} opposite]] happened to Maddie - she's a mostly blameless woman who had a moment of selfishness while she thought she was dreaming, and has been written off as evil in canon ever since. Probably half the X-Men have tried to do similar things while possessed.



* ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparant humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- including the daycare centre bombing- was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.

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* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
**
ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' Superman story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparant apparent humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- including the daycare centre bombing- was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.



* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[Creator/StanLee Stan]] and [[Creator/JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.

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* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] adaptations [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[Creator/StanLee Stan]] and [[Creator/JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.
27th May '16 2:16:24 PM Doug86
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* Ironically, ever since ''Comicbook/CivilWar'' and ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', Tony Stark's popularity has '''exploded''' among the fangirls. Granted, this may have something to do with the release of TheMovie, but the seemingly insane fannishness predates even that...but not by much, since while he was always popular ''before'' Civil War, he was a relatively obscure figure compared to the household names of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} and {{Spider-Man}}. So [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys yeah...]]
* Madelyne Pryor, the [[CloningBlues clone of Jean Grey]], gets this as well. Part of it may be thanks to her initial portrayal as a [[BadassNormal strong-willed,]] [[ActionGirl capable woman,]] with an entire story arc set to establish that she was in fact ''not'' the reincarnation of the person she looked like ([[Creator/ChrisClaremont author's]] original intent notwithstanding). Part of it is '''definitely''' due to the [[MoralEventHorizon abandonment by her husband]] [[ExecutiveMeddling to lead another superhero team with said lookalike on it.]] Either way, people like to focus on the WomanScorned aspect of her characterization and not look at the part where a DrunkOnTheDarkSide Maddie threatened the life of half a dozen innocent children...[[OffingTheOffspring Including her own.]]

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* Ironically, ever since ''Comicbook/CivilWar'' and ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', Tony Stark's popularity has '''exploded''' among the fangirls. Granted, this may have something to do with the release of TheMovie, but the seemingly insane fannishness predates even that...but not by much, since while he was always popular ''before'' Civil War, he was a relatively obscure figure compared to the household names of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} ComicBook/XMen and {{Spider-Man}}.Franchise/SpiderMan. So [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys yeah...]]
* Madelyne Pryor, the [[CloningBlues clone of Jean Grey]], gets this as well. Part of it may be thanks to her initial portrayal as a [[BadassNormal strong-willed,]] strong-willed]], [[ActionGirl capable woman,]] woman]], with an entire story arc set to establish that she was in fact ''not'' the reincarnation of the person she looked like ([[Creator/ChrisClaremont author's]] original intent notwithstanding). Part of it is '''definitely''' due to the [[MoralEventHorizon abandonment by her husband]] [[ExecutiveMeddling to lead another superhero team with said lookalike on it.]] Either way, people like to focus on the WomanScorned aspect of her characterization and not look at the part where a DrunkOnTheDarkSide Maddie threatened the life of half a dozen innocent children...[[OffingTheOffspring Including her own.]]own]].
9th Mar '16 12:08:28 AM Spookongo
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Added DiffLines:

* Second long-running main villain Negan in ''Comicbook/TheWalkingDead'' is arguably the comic's most loved character mostly driven simply by his [[MagnificentBastard charisma and intelligence]]. It doesn't take long on a website dedicated to the comics side of the franchise to spot numerous fans of Negan, even if the character's introduction already sees him [[spoiler:brutally murdering fan-favorite Glenn, a character that has been with the readers since the very beginning of the series]].
16th Jan '16 4:28:44 PM nombretomado
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* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[StanLee Stan]] and [[JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.

to:

* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[StanLee [[Creator/StanLee Stan]] and [[JackKirby [[Creator/JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.
31st Dec '15 6:06:56 PM Anddrix
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* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[StanLee Stan]] and [[JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.

to:

* A very...''unusual'' form of this happens with SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}.Loki. While he certainly has a lot of fangirls, a lot of people tend to ignore his more heinous acts in the comics by the fact that he's not ''nearly'' that much of an asshole in the original [[Myth/NorseMythology mythology]], and was basically [[HijackedByJesus turned into a villain by years of translations and adaptations]] [[RonTheDeathEater that ignored his positive traits and played up his negative ones]]. There's a large number of people who dislike this, and complain about the fact Loki is sometimes depicted as being a CardCarryingVillain. Ironically, [[StanLee Stan]] and [[JackKirby Jack]] did write some issues based on actual stories which had Loki in a much more positive light, being based ''before'' he turned on Thor.
30th Dec '15 2:13:58 PM Anddrix
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* SelfDemonstrating/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparant humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- including the daycare centre bombing- was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.

to:

* SelfDemonstrating/LexLuthor ComicBook/LexLuthor has gotten some love ever since ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel'' (well, mostly since), which tells a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' story from his point of view and sees him rationalise his actions as BewareTheSuperman, with Lex seeing himself as the OnlySaneMan on Earth who sees that humanity is becoming dependant on an untrustworthy, godlike alien whose mere presence will ultimately result in a stagnating and static civilization as nothing innovators like him create would be worth a jot next to the hero. Adding to the contrast is Superman rescuing [[PsychopathicManchild the Toyman]] from an angry mob after he [[MoralEventHorizon blew up a daycare centre]] and doing other things that were making him a HeroWithBadPublicity. '''However''', the fans who side with him on this for his apparant humanist sympathies tend to overlook the fact that '''everything''' that happened in the story- including the daycare centre bombing- was secretly his doing and part of a grander plan to discredit and humiliate Superman- that he really does believe himself to be the hero doesn't make him good, it just makes him [[AxCrazy batshit insane]]. Not to mention that, for all his supposed humanism, he is ultimately a bigger threat to humanity than Superman ever would be -- he certainly has a lot more of them killed throughout the story.
29th Dec '15 8:16:03 AM Anddrix
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* SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent BadAss AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]

to:

* SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom Doctor Doom has received treatment of this nature from the fans. He is a complex EvilOverlord with a strong (if warped) sense of nobility and a tendency towards frequent BadAss AwesomeMoments, but he is still a villain. For example; the image of 'Doom as benevolent dictator' partially stems from a one-off book, ''Emperor Doom'', in which Doom manages to conquer the Earth and begins to make numerous improvements in how things are run; this book is often used to reinforce the impression that Doom would be a great and benevolent leader if he managed to take over. However, he manages this largely by brainwashing the entire planet into accepting his rule (goodbye, freedom of thought and dissent); and he ultimately gives it up and lets the heroes defeat him because he gets bored, suggesting that he's ultimately not as interested in 'making the world a better place for all' as many would like to think. And yet some create an exaggerated ideal of how noble and ''benevolent'' . His vanity, insecurity, egomania, and brutality tend to be underplayed or ignored and writers who attempt to stress Doom's less-attractive qualities can be rejected vitriolically. Doom so embodies this characteristic that people actually brush off his actions in Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he [[spoiler: kills the teenage Cassie Lang and takes the credit for Avengers Disassembled and House of M]] or the story "Unthinkable" where he [[spoiler: murders his ex-love for demonic power and again attacks the Richards family, including possessing Valeria - just to hurt the patriarch.]]
28th Nov '15 5:31:44 PM nombretomado
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** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she gleefully wiped out an entire Middle Eastern country with a stolen nuke, that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.

to:

** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''SecretSix'').''ComicBook/SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she gleefully wiped out an entire Middle Eastern country with a stolen nuke, that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.
15th Nov '15 3:30:49 PM StFan
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** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she gleefully wiped out an entire Middle Eastern country with a stolen nuke, that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.

to:

** Many fans prefer to focus on Cheshire as being the mother to [[ComicBook/GreenArrow Arsenal's]] daughter Lian Harper, as well as to focus on the idea that there was some love shared between her and Arsenal when they were in a relationship. This has caused many arguments to spring up about her ability to love her children (including the son she had by Catman in ''SecretSix''). This occurs while said fans tend to downplay or ignore the fact that she gleefully wiped out an entire Middle Eastern country with a stolen nuke, that she once purposefully got out of a blackmail arrangement by conceiving a replacement child in case Lian actually was killed off, and that she's generally a sadistic PsychoForHire with a love of poisoning her enemies. Said arguments are not helped by her backstory including that she was sold into slavery as a child and that the ''YoungJustice'' ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' TV show gave her more characterization and redeeming qualities.
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