History DorkAge / TheDCU

23rd Apr '18 8:29:48 AM MBG159
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** The New 52 era had some bright points, such as Morrison's run, but it was overall remembered mostly for the number of writers who [[DependingOnTheWriter interpreted]] "somewhat more hotheaded and passionate" as "TookALevelInJerkass." Not helping this was the incredibly messy editorial causing writers and storylines to rotate out constantly, or the fact that his New 52 redesign was near-universally seen as one of the worst. It probably wasn't a coincidence that ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' kicked off with the death of the guy and the return of the post-Crisis version (though they did end up doing a FusionDance later).
21st Apr '18 2:10:22 AM najhoant
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** James Robinson's run reviled by many. Not only was he a largely unwanted addition (especially since, per his own admission, he was made writer as a favor), but his run was picking up a point from the [=N52=] era, which Greg Rucka's second run was largely dedicated to erasing. Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, many soured quickly as it saw Diana and her supporting cast ended up OutOfFocus in favor of her MartyStu LongLostRelative Jason, who was quickly despised by fans for a being a {{Wangst}} filled fratboy who was given constant CharacterShilling. Add in a downright ineffectual portrayal of Darkseid and glacial pacing (to the point that entire issues did nothing but [[{{Padding}} recap background elements we were already told about]]]) and fans were basically counting the days until Robinson left the book.

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** James Robinson's run has been reviled by many. Not only was he a largely unwanted addition (especially since, per his own admission, he was made writer as a favor), but his run was picking up a point from the [=N52=] era, which Greg Rucka's second run was largely dedicated to erasing. Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, many soured quickly as it saw Diana and her supporting cast ended up OutOfFocus in favor of her MartyStu LongLostRelative Jason, who was quickly despised by fans for a being a {{Wangst}} filled fratboy who was given constant CharacterShilling. Add in a downright ineffectual portrayal of Darkseid and glacial pacing (to the point that entire issues did nothing but [[{{Padding}} recap background elements we were already told about]]]) and fans were basically counting the days until Robinson left the book.
16th Apr '18 4:19:01 PM EternityofSpirits
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** ...Which cannot be said for the follow-up run by first-timer Meredith Finch. Azzarello's run had the advantage of being clearly driven and self-contained. Finch's run on the other hand was meant to tie into the larger DCU ''and'' reintroduce characters that Azzarello's run ignored. The result is nothing short of a disaster. Narratives have no direction whatsoever, Diana comes off as an ineffectual idiot, a new outfit that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" Donna Troy is reintroduced with a new origin that was instantly reviled by fans and stupid, stupid plot decisions (including a FaceHeelTurn for Hera that essentially spat on all the CharacterDevelopment she had recived in Azzarello's run). Add in downright Liefeldian artwork from Finch's husband David that objectified Diana and you have arguably the most hated run in Wonder Woman's entire history.

to:

** ...Which cannot be said for the follow-up run by first-timer Meredith Finch. Azzarello's run had the advantage of being clearly driven and self-contained. Finch's run on the other hand was meant to tie into the larger DCU ''and'' reintroduce characters that Azzarello's run ignored. The result is nothing short of a disaster. Narratives have had no direction whatsoever, Diana comes came off as an ineffectual idiot, a new outfit was introduced that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" Suit", Donna Troy is was reintroduced with a new origin that was instantly reviled by fans and there were stupid, stupid plot decisions (including a FaceHeelTurn for Hera that essentially spat on all the CharacterDevelopment she had recived in Azzarello's run). Add in downright Liefeldian artwork from Finch's husband David that objectified Diana and you have arguably the most hated run in Wonder Woman's entire history.
** James Robinson's run reviled by many. Not only was he a largely unwanted addition (especially since, per his own admission, he was made writer as a favor), but his run was picking up a point from the [=N52=] era, which Greg Rucka's second run was largely dedicated to erasing. Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, many soured quickly as it saw Diana and her supporting cast ended up OutOfFocus in favor of her MartyStu LongLostRelative Jason, who was quickly despised by fans for a being a {{Wangst}} filled fratboy who was given constant CharacterShilling. Add in a downright ineffectual portrayal of Darkseid and glacial pacing (to the point that entire issues did nothing but [[{{Padding}} recap background elements we were already told about]]]) and fans were basically counting the days until Robinson left the book.
10th Apr '18 8:53:54 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** The ComicBook/New52 era is an especially controversial example. This is mostly because of Creator/BrianAzzarello choosing to rewrite the entire mythos of the character to make it closer to actual Greek mythology, making Diana often hot-headed and violent, the Amazons a militaristic society that repopulated by raping sailors, and dumping pretty much any character not directly from Greek Myth, even long-established ones with roles in other books like Steve Trevor and Cheetah. Many of these changes did not go down well, and Diana's controversial romance with Superman did not help. Even so, Azzerello's run has a devote fandom, especially among non-Wonder Woman fans, casual readers and professional critics...

to:

** The ComicBook/New52 era is an especially controversial example. This is mostly because of Creator/BrianAzzarello choosing to rewrite the entire mythos of the character to make it closer to actual Greek mythology, making Diana often hot-headed and violent, the Amazons a militaristic society that repopulated by raping sailors, and dumping pretty much any character not directly from Greek Myth, even long-established ones with roles in other books like Steve Trevor and Cheetah. Many of these changes did not go down well, and Diana's controversial romance with Superman did not help. Even so, Azzerello's Azzarello's run has a devote fandom, especially among non-Wonder Woman fans, casual readers and professional critics...



** This was likely an attempt to tie Firestorm into the ''ComicBook/SwampThing'' mythos, with a similar revelation having happened to that character -- rather than a brilliant scientist turned into a plant-monster by a FreakLabAccident, he was actually a mystical plant elemental, who as a result of said FreakLabAccident, ended up thinking he was said brilliant scientist. DC went on to incorporate a number of characters into similar roles (for example, in addition to Firestorm, ComicBook/RedTornado was revealed to be a mystical air elemental, rather than a robot who could manipulate air via superscience). Sadly, what worked for a horror-based ''Swamp Thing'' written by Creator/AlanMoore led to mass-dorkageness in LighterAndSofter works written by anyone slightly less talented than Moore.

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** This was likely an attempt to tie Firestorm into the ''ComicBook/SwampThing'' mythos, with a similar revelation having happened to that character -- rather than a brilliant scientist turned into a plant-monster by a FreakLabAccident, he was actually a mystical plant elemental, who as a result of said FreakLabAccident, ended up thinking he was said brilliant scientist. DC went on to incorporate a number of characters into similar roles (for example, in addition to Firestorm, ComicBook/RedTornado was revealed to be a mystical air elemental, rather than a robot who could manipulate air via superscience). Sadly, what worked for a horror-based ''Swamp Thing'' written by Creator/AlanMoore led to mass-dorkageness in LighterAndSofter works written by anyone slightly less talented than Moore.[[TheAce Moore]].
6th Apr '18 12:35:29 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** Pretty much every single time Chuck Austen gets his claws on a mainstream comic, one of these results ([[DorkAge/{{Marvel}} go to the Marvel section]] for what he did to ''Uncanny Franchise/XMen''). A particularly JustForFun/{{egregious}} one, though, was probably his run on ''Action Comics'', where he seemed to really want Superman to be a violent asshole somewhat like the Golden Age Batman. And he was loudly adamant that Clark Kent should dump ComicBook/LoisLane because she was a gold-digging, power-hungry whore who was only sleeping with him because he was Superman... ''[[CriticalResearchFailure even though Lois fell in love with and became engaged to Clark long before she ever found out he was Superman]]'' (although to be fair, this is how most superhero fans see Lois Lane). This led to loads of DerailingLoveInterests in favor of ComicBook/LanaLang, who came off as a pathetic sociopathic {{stalker|WithACrush}} and made the elder Kents into {{jerkass}} MeddlingParents. Needless to say, the entire run was hustled into CanonDiscontinuity faster than a speeding bullet when Austen got booted off the title.

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** Pretty much every single time Chuck Austen gets his claws on a mainstream comic, one of these results ([[DorkAge/{{Marvel}} go to the Marvel section]] for what he did to ''Uncanny Franchise/XMen''). A particularly JustForFun/{{egregious}} one, though, was probably his run on ''Action Comics'', where he seemed to really want Superman to be a violent asshole somewhat like the Golden Age Batman. And he was loudly adamant that Clark Kent should dump ComicBook/LoisLane because she was a gold-digging, power-hungry whore who was only sleeping with him because he was Superman... ''[[CriticalResearchFailure even though Lois fell in love with and became engaged to Clark long before she ever found out he was Superman]]'' (although to be fair, this is how most superhero fans see Lois Lane).Superman]]''. This led to loads of DerailingLoveInterests in favor of ComicBook/LanaLang, who came off as a pathetic sociopathic {{stalker|WithACrush}} and made the elder Kents into {{jerkass}} MeddlingParents. Needless to say, the entire run was hustled into CanonDiscontinuity faster than a speeding bullet when Austen got booted off the title.
6th Apr '18 12:33:45 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** Tim hasn't fared too well in the New 52, either, with most of his backstory and character traits being jettisoned in the reboot. To wit: He's a former athlete instead of a PlayfulHacker, he doesn't have any of his usual supporting cast or family, he acts and sounds a lot dumber, his costume doesn't look remotely similar, he didn't discover Batman's identity (which Tim Drake fans will remember as the defining trait of his character; it'd be like doing a Batman reboot where his parents are still alive), and to cap it all off, Tim Drake apparently isn't even his real name. This last bit has led to particularly bitter fans calling him "the imposter," avidly hoping for the "real" Tim Drake to return at some point.
*** Thankfully, as of ComicBook/DCRebirth, Tim has had his original backstory reinstated.

to:

** Tim hasn't fared too well in the New 52, either, with most of his backstory and character traits being jettisoned in the reboot. To wit: He's a former athlete instead of a PlayfulHacker, he doesn't have any of his usual supporting cast or family, he acts and sounds a lot dumber, his costume doesn't look remotely similar, he didn't discover Batman's identity (which Tim Drake fans will remember as the defining trait of his character; it'd be like doing a Batman reboot where his parents are still alive), and to cap it all off, Tim Drake apparently isn't even his real name. This last bit has led to particularly bitter fans calling him "the imposter," avidly hoping for the "real" Tim Drake to return at some point.
***
point. Thankfully, as of ComicBook/DCRebirth, Tim has had his original backstory reinstated.



** The ComicBook/New52 era is an especially controversial example. This is mostly because of Creator/BrianAzzerello choosing to rewrite the entire mythos of the character to make it closer to actual mythology, making Diana often hot-headed and violent, the Amazons a millertistic society that repopulated by raping sailors, and dumping pretty much any character not directly from Greek Myth, even long-established ones with roles in other books like Steve Trevor and Cheetah. Many of these changes did not go down well, and Diana's controversial romance with Superman did not help. Even so, Azzerello's run has a devote fandom...
** ...Which cannot be said for the follow-up run by first-timer Meredith Finch. Azzerello's run had the advantage of being clearly driven and self-contained. Finch's run on the other hand was meant to tie into the larger DCU ''and'' reintroduce characters that Azzerello's run ignored. The result is nothing short of a disaster. Narratives have no direction whatsoever, Diana comes off as an ineffectual idiot, Donna Troy is reintroduced with a new origin that was instantly reviled by fans, a new outfit that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" and stupid, stupid plot decisions (including a FaceHeelTurn for Hera that essentially spat on all the CharacterDevelopment she had recived in Azzerello's run). Add in downright Liefeldian artwork from Finch's husband David, and you have arguably the most hated run in Wonder Woman's entire history.

to:

** The ComicBook/New52 era is an especially controversial example. This is mostly because of Creator/BrianAzzerello Creator/BrianAzzarello choosing to rewrite the entire mythos of the character to make it closer to actual Greek mythology, making Diana often hot-headed and violent, the Amazons a millertistic militaristic society that repopulated by raping sailors, and dumping pretty much any character not directly from Greek Myth, even long-established ones with roles in other books like Steve Trevor and Cheetah. Many of these changes did not go down well, and Diana's controversial romance with Superman did not help. Even so, Azzerello's run has a devote fandom...
fandom, especially among non-Wonder Woman fans, casual readers and professional critics...
** ...Which cannot be said for the follow-up run by first-timer Meredith Finch. Azzerello's Azzarello's run had the advantage of being clearly driven and self-contained. Finch's run on the other hand was meant to tie into the larger DCU ''and'' reintroduce characters that Azzerello's Azzarello's run ignored. The result is nothing short of a disaster. Narratives have no direction whatsoever, Diana comes off as an ineffectual idiot, a new outfit that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" Donna Troy is reintroduced with a new origin that was instantly reviled by fans, a new outfit that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" fans and stupid, stupid plot decisions (including a FaceHeelTurn for Hera that essentially spat on all the CharacterDevelopment she had recived in Azzerello's Azzarello's run). Add in downright Liefeldian artwork from Finch's husband David, David that objectified Diana and you have arguably the most hated run in Wonder Woman's entire history.
2nd Apr '18 10:01:25 PM EternityofSpirits
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** The New 52 (see below) Wonder Woman series is sometimes considered this, though not for its characterization of the titular heroine. Rather, the most commonly criticized elements were in the depiction of the Amazons as militantly anti-male serial rapists and child murderers. While this is accurate to the original Greek myths about Amazons, as several critics have noted, those myths were the product of an ''incredibly'' misogynistic society (as in it was a subject of serious public debate whether women were even human beings), so an accurate recreation of those stories ends up being misogynistic. DC seems to agree, as the first three arcs of [[Creator/GregRucka Greg Rucka's]] ''ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth'' are devoting to revealing that the Nu52 Amazons are frauds created by Wonder Woman's enemies, and that the real Amazons have none of their violent or misandrist traits.

to:

** The New 52 (see below) Wonder Woman series is sometimes considered this, though not for its characterization of the titular heroine. Rather, the most commonly criticized elements were in the depiction of set-up after Infinite Crisis. After the Amazons as militantly anti-male serial rapists and child murderers. While this is accurate Greek Pantheon got PutOnABus, DC tried to do an ill-fated revival of the Mod Era, with Diana as a secret agent in a white jumpsuit, with a suddenly boorish Nemesis as her love interest. This would be bad enough, but, due to writer Alan Heinberg having other work, the run suffered huge ScheduleSlip, to the original Greek myths about Amazons, as several critics point that replacement writer Jodi Piccoult had to be brought on before Heinberg's first arc was even finished. Problem there, though, is that not only did Picoult not have noted, those myths were any knowledge or interest in the product franchise or comics in general (leading to her writing Diana as [[IdiotBall a massive idiot]]), but her run was also a tie-in to ''ComicBook/AmazonsAttack'', considered one of the worst stories in the DC history period due to unnessecery gore, a massive Idiot Plot, the Amazons being turned into {{Straw Feminist}}s and continuity so poor that very basic details changed between issues.
** The ComicBook/New52 era is
an ''incredibly'' misogynistic especially controversial example. This is mostly because of Creator/BrianAzzerello choosing to rewrite the entire mythos of the character to make it closer to actual mythology, making Diana often hot-headed and violent, the Amazons a millertistic society (as in it was a subject of serious public debate whether women were that repopulated by raping sailors, and dumping pretty much any character not directly from Greek Myth, even human beings), so an accurate recreation long-established ones with roles in other books like Steve Trevor and Cheetah. Many of those stories ends up these changes did not go down well, and Diana's controversial romance with Superman did not help. Even so, Azzerello's run has a devote fandom...
** ...Which cannot be said for the follow-up run by first-timer Meredith Finch. Azzerello's run had the advantage of
being misogynistic. DC seems to agree, as clearly driven and self-contained. Finch's run on the first three arcs of [[Creator/GregRucka Greg Rucka's]] ''ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth'' are devoting other hand was meant to revealing tie into the larger DCU ''and'' reintroduce characters that Azzerello's run ignored. The result is nothing short of a disaster. Narratives have no direction whatsoever, Diana comes off as an ineffectual idiot, Donna Troy is reintroduced with a new origin that was instantly reviled by fans, a new outfit that was mockingly described as "The Clown Suit" and stupid, stupid plot decisions (including a FaceHeelTurn for Hera that essentially spat on all the Nu52 Amazons are frauds created by CharacterDevelopment she had recived in Azzerello's run). Add in downright Liefeldian artwork from Finch's husband David, and you have arguably the most hated run in Wonder Woman's enemies, and that the real Amazons have none of their violent or misandrist traits.entire history.
1st Apr '18 3:31:02 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** General agreement is that the first decline occurred after Geroge Perez left. This sent a number of shockwaves throughout the book, including a huge increase in {{Wangst}}, Deathstroke being EasilyForgiven and the introduction of the much reviled [[TheScrappy Danny Chase]]. Then came the long, difficult to follow "Titans Hunt" arc and the book began self-destructing, with a ton of uninteresting and/or unlikable new characters being introduced, loads of 90s clichés, chaotic storytelling and art and tons of {{Shocking Swerve}}s. After Cyborg got PutOnTheBusToHell, the book was left in shambles, with the team constantly changing and being interrupted by crossovers. By the end, many felt the ending to the run was MercyKill.
** Dan Jurgens relatively short-lived run, starring a de-aged Ray Palmer leading a bunch of teenagers empowered by aliens, was considered this during its original run. It's since been VindicatedByHistory, being considered a very good run held back by the fans difficulty with accepting a group of entirely new characters carrying the title of such a beloved team.

to:

** General agreement is that the first decline occurred after Geroge George Perez left. This sent a number of shockwaves throughout the book, including a huge increase in {{Wangst}}, Deathstroke being EasilyForgiven and the introduction of the much reviled [[TheScrappy Danny Chase]]. Then came the long, difficult to follow "Titans Hunt" arc and the book began self-destructing, with a ton of uninteresting and/or unlikable new characters being introduced, loads of 90s clichés, chaotic storytelling and art and tons of {{Shocking Swerve}}s. After Cyborg got PutOnTheBusToHell, the book was left in shambles, with the team constantly changing and being interrupted by crossovers. By the end, many felt the ending to the run was MercyKill.
** Dan Jurgens Jurgens' relatively short-lived run, starring a de-aged Ray Palmer leading a bunch of teenagers empowered by aliens, was considered this during its original run. It's since been VindicatedByHistory, being considered a very good run held back by the fans fans' difficulty with accepting a group of entirely new characters carrying the title of such a beloved team.



** Volume 3. Several ''Comicbook/YoungJustice'' characters were derailed for the purpose of "graduating" them to the Titans, which mostly irritated fans of both comics. Though fans enjoyed the return of the book's original title and cast, the novelty wound up wearing off fairly quickly, and the book's quality went downhill even further with the ''One Year Later'' portion and Johns leaving the book, as well as ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'' seemingly making the Titans "[[CListFodder the heroes that it's okay to kill]]." The remainder of Volume 3 proved to be a slow decline, with characters being offed for no reason, being pointlessly DarkerAndEdgier, and the few usable plotlines being wasted. The series needed a reboot more than most...
** Then the Teen Titans' ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' reboot proceeded to take things FromBadToWorse. Written by the largely reviled Scott Lobdell, the series kicked off with a ridiculous, unfocused arc that tried to cross over with about six other books and starred a VillainSue. Several characters had core personality traits ironed out, almost to InNameOnly levels (see Tim Drake above), the costumes were ridiculous, many plotlines felt like an excuse for more fight scenes, the plotlines that actually ''tried'' were awful, convoluted and inconsistent, and the Titans themselves didn't feel like a team or even like friends. The resulting book didn't make it past thirty issues, and was promptly rebooted...
** Into another Dork Age. This time, Will Pfeifer wrote largely forgettable stories trying [[WereStillRelevantDammit incredibly hard to be "relevant"]], with the social media side of things amped up in embarrassing ways, characters being downright unlikeable, and an ''ungodly'' amount of focus on CreatorsPet VillainSue Manchester Black, who basically existed to pull off stupid gambits while retaining none of what made him a good villain when he debuted in [[Franchise/{{Superman}} "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?"]]. There were also tons of continuity issues with the previous run, which this run for ''some reason'' kept canon. Then Lobdell was brought back for some reason, meaning Pfeifer had to rush whatever he had planned and just ended up dumping most of it. Lobdell proceeded to screw the series once again, and it limped along with some fill-in writers (who wrapped up some lingering plot threats) while it waited for [[spoiler: Tim Drake to die over in ''ComicBook/DetectiveComicsRebirth'']], while the rest of DC's comics had been relaunched under the well-received ComicBook/DCRebirth banner, essentially leaving ''Teen Titans'' as this thing that just ''refused to die''. The series finally came to an end once [[spoiler: Tim apparently died (in actuality, he was beamed into another dimension and being captive under Mr. Oz)]]. The legacy both series left was being the series that it was seemingly okay to make fun of ''in-universe'', which the subsequent series, ''ComicBook/TeenTitansRebirth'', ''did''.

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** Volume 3.The 2003 series. Several ''Comicbook/YoungJustice'' characters were derailed for the purpose of "graduating" them to the Titans, which mostly irritated fans of both comics. Though fans enjoyed the return of the book's original title and cast, the novelty wound up wearing off fairly quickly, and with the first 25 or so issues by Geoff Johns being divisive at best. The book's quality went downhill even further downhill with the ''One Year Later'' portion and portion, after which Johns leaving left the book, as well as book. Not helping matters was how ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'' seemingly making made the Titans "[[CListFodder the heroes that it's okay to kill]]." kill]]", further contributing to the team's fluctuating membership. The remainder of Volume 3 the series proved to be a slow decline, with characters being offed for no reason, being pointlessly DarkerAndEdgier, DarkerAndEdgier (including an infamous story where a demonic Wonder Dog mauled the Wonder Twins leading to backlash from comics sites), characters acting like assholes for no reason, and the few usable plotlines being wasted. The series needed a reboot more than most...
** Then the Teen Titans' ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' reboot proceeded to take things FromBadToWorse. Written by the largely reviled Scott Lobdell, the series kicked off with a ridiculous, unfocused arc that tried to cross over with about six other books and starred a VillainSue.VillainSue (literally everything the team did ended up being tied to his plan somehow). Several characters had core personality traits ironed out, almost to InNameOnly levels (see Tim Drake above), the costumes were ridiculous, many plotlines felt like an excuse for more fight scenes, the plotlines that actually ''tried'' were awful, convoluted and inconsistent, and the Titans themselves didn't feel like a team or even like friends. The resulting book didn't make it past thirty issues, and was promptly rebooted...
** Into another Dork Age. This time, Will Pfeifer wrote largely forgettable stories trying [[WereStillRelevantDammit incredibly hard to be "relevant"]], with the social media side of things amped up in embarrassing ways, characters being downright unlikeable, and an ''ungodly'' amount of focus on CreatorsPet VillainSue Manchester Black, who basically existed to pull off stupid gambits while retaining none of what made him a good villain when he debuted in [[Franchise/{{Superman}} "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?"]]. There were also tons of continuity issues with the previous run, which this run for ''some reason'' kept canon. Then Lobdell was brought back for some reason, meaning Pfeifer had to rush whatever he had planned and just ended up dumping most of it. Lobdell proceeded to screw the series once again, and it limped along with some fill-in writers (who wrapped up some lingering plot threats) while it waited for [[spoiler: Tim Drake to die over in ''ComicBook/DetectiveComicsRebirth'']], while the rest of DC's comics had been relaunched under the well-received ComicBook/DCRebirth banner, essentially leaving ''Teen Titans'' as this thing that just ''refused to die''. The series finally came to an end once [[spoiler: Tim apparently died (in actuality, he was beamed into another dimension and being captive under Mr. Oz)]].died]]. The legacy both series left was being the series that it was seemingly okay to make fun of ''in-universe'', which the subsequent series, ''ComicBook/TeenTitansRebirth'', ''did''.



** Similarly, Dan Abnett's ''ComicBook/TitansRebirth'' run. The series started off strong, with a focus on the friendship between the characters and the return of BreakoutCharacter Wally West. However, ''huge'' mishandling of Wally West and Donna Troy that seemed to fundamentally misunderstand parts of their characters, awful romance plots that went nowhere, were unwanted or poorly executed, ConflictBall elements that existed for no reason (especially when the Justice League showed up to basically be huge assholes for no reason) and plots that felt straight out of the 90s all led to a title that nobody but the most diehard fans liked. The handling of Donna Troy is especially despised for, against all odds, ''reigniting'' her ContinuitySnarl by being beholden to her despised New 52 incarnation, in a relaunch where writers seem to be ''encouraged'' to scrap what they dislike from that era. The only positively received aspects were Donna Troy's relationship with Roy Harper and the implication of a past history between Roy and Cheshire (because it leaves the door open for Lian Harper's return). In the end, the series was cancelled, and Abnett even apologised ''in-universe'' for his handling of Wally, although the follow-up ''Titans'' series will still be written by him.
** ''ComicBook/TeenTitansRebirth'' isn't considered much better in this regard. Like its sister book, it started strong, but quickly fell apart afterwards. The main problem ended up being the portrayal of Damian, who ended up being written as a huge JerkSue who treated his team like crap and yet was never really reprimanded for it. Even beyond that, the team, being largely whoever was available from the Wolfman/Perez run, felt extremely stale and unable to develop as a group, the stories were pretty much regurgitations of prior runs, and the book kept getting tied into crossovers that developed the stories of other books, leaving it utterly directionless. Sure enough, the run ended up being canceled, with PromotedFanboy Adam Glass becoming the new writer and everyone besides Damian and Wallace getting dumped.

to:

** Similarly, Dan Abnett's ''ComicBook/TitansRebirth'' run. The series started off strong, with a focus on the friendship between the characters and the return of BreakoutCharacter Wally West. However, ''huge'' mishandling of Wally West and Donna Troy that seemed to fundamentally misunderstand parts of their characters, awful romance plots that went nowhere, nowhere or were unwanted or poorly executed, ConflictBall elements that existed for no reason (especially when the Justice League showed show up to basically be huge assholes for no reason) reason a few times) and plots that felt straight out of the 90s all led to a title that nobody but the most diehard fans liked. The handling of Donna Troy is especially despised for, against all odds, ''reigniting'' her ContinuitySnarl by being beholden to her despised New 52 incarnation, in a relaunch where writers seem to be ''encouraged'' to scrap what they dislike from that era. The only positively received aspects were Donna Troy's relationship with Roy Harper and the implication of a past history between Roy and Cheshire (because it leaves the door open for Lian Harper's return). In the end, the series was cancelled, and Abnett even apologised ''in-universe'' for his handling of Wally, although the follow-up ''Titans'' series will still be written by him.
** ''ComicBook/TeenTitansRebirth'' isn't considered much better in this regard. Like its sister book, it started strong, but quickly fell apart afterwards. The main problem ended up being the portrayal of Damian, who ended up being written as a huge JerkSue who treated his team like crap and yet was never really reprimanded for it. Even beyond that, the team, being largely whoever was available from the Wolfman/Perez run, felt extremely stale and unable to develop as a group, the with attempts to develop a bond between them being composed of characters quite literally explaining their character and motivations to others and then just becoming friends out of nowhere and never developing beyond that. The stories were pretty much regurgitations of prior runs, runs or incredibly basic concepts, and the book kept getting tied into crossovers that developed the stories of other books, leaving it utterly directionless. Sure enough, the run ended up being canceled, with PromotedFanboy Adam Glass becoming the new writer and everyone besides Damian and Wallace getting dumped.
1st Apr '18 3:07:28 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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** Barry's return has, in turn, met this reaction from many, particularly those that loved Wally's character. With Barry's return brought about a sudden demotion of Wally into an extra at best (until being erased completely), while Barry's character was given several controversial rewrites, including giving him a DarkerAndEdgier backstory involving his mother's murder which many felt was unnecessary, promoting him as the 'most important' of the Flash legacy that was felt as a diservice to the rest of the Flash family, who all in-turn were given a sharp DemotedToExtra status. On top of this came the ''New 52'' reboot, which while the Flash book was considered one of the strongest titles, its changes to the Rogues (now metahumans, something that annoyed Geoff Johns enough that he personally undid it with ''ComicBook/ForeverEvil''), as well as the entire Flash family outside of Barry being ''erased completely''. The run ''did'' bring in many new fans and inspired the basis of the 2014 TV series, but many older fans felt like it lost a lot of what made the Flash such a great legacy.
** The rock bottom ''The Flash'' reached was when Robert Venditti and Van Jensen took over. None of the writers had ''any'' Flash knowledge beforehand and unlike Manapul and Buccellato run, they ''were'' given the task of reintroducing important characters like Wally West and Eobard Thawne. They dropped the ball completely, with incredibly divisive changes to Wally West and an extremely inconsistent Professor Zoom, leading to arguably the '''worst''' run of ''The Flash''. Unlike the previous examples, which all had their fans and defenders, this run is quite possibly universally hated by past readers. Add on Brett Booth's divisive 90s Image inspired art right after Francis Manapul's acclaimed pencils, and the book had turned into a nightmare that never seemed to end. In the end, the series sales reached bottom again and Geoff Johns had to do DCRebirth to fix the damage this run had done to the character and his allies.

to:

** Barry's return has, in turn, was met this reaction from many, particularly those that loved Wally's character. character, but also ''non''-Flash fans. With Barry's return brought about a sudden demotion of Wally into an extra at best (until being erased completely), while Barry's character was given several controversial rewrites, including giving him a DarkerAndEdgier backstory involving his mother's murder which many felt was unnecessary, to promoting him as the 'most important' of the Flash legacy that was felt as a diservice disservice to the rest of the Flash family, who all in-turn were given a sharp DemotedToExtra status. On top of this came General comic and DC fans dislike it for missing the ''New 52'' reboot, point of the DCU and bringing back a character whose death was highly regarded, and whose resurrection was considered altogether unnecessary. Not helping is that Barry's return also brought back Eobard Thawne, which while led to the removal of other villainous speedsters like Hunter Zolomon, Inertia, the Black Flash and Lady Savitar. That Thawne came back with retcons to ''his'' history and [[NewPowersASThePlotDemands powers]], as well as the retcon of him basically being responsible for everything bad that's happened to Barry, doesn't help him from being seen as a VillainSue.
** The Brian Buccellato/Francis Manapul run. While
the Flash book was considered one of the strongest titles, better titles (at least in the reboot's earlier days), its changes to the Rogues (now metahumans, something that annoyed Geoff Johns enough that he personally undid it with ''ComicBook/ForeverEvil''), as well as the entire Flash family outside of Barry being ''erased completely''. completely'' has given it a negative reputation to all but those who the series was a gateway to. The run ''did'' bring in many new fans and inspired the basis of the 2014 TV series, series and has art that's pretty much universally acclaimed, but many older fans felt like it lost a lot of what made the Flash such a great legacy.
franchise, from the expansive cast to the nature of the stories themselves.
** The rock bottom ''The Flash'' reached was when Robert Venditti and Van Jensen took over. None Neither of the writers had ''any'' Flash knowledge beforehand and unlike Manapul and Buccellato run, they ''were'' given the task of reintroducing important characters like Wally West and Eobard Thawne. They dropped the ball completely, with incredibly divisive changes to Wally West and an extremely inconsistent Professor Zoom, leading to arguably the '''worst''' run of ''The Flash''. Unlike the previous examples, which all had their fans and defenders, this run is quite possibly universally hated by past readers. Add on Brett Booth's divisive 90s Image inspired art right after Francis Manapul's acclaimed pencils, and the book had turned into a nightmare that never seemed to end. In the end, the series series' sales reached bottom again and Geoff Johns had to do DCRebirth to fix the damage this run had done to the character and his allies.
29th Mar '18 9:15:46 AM TheMountainKing
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Barry's return has, in turn, met this reaction from many, particularly those that loved Wally's character. With Barry's return brought about a sudden demotion of Wally into an extra at best (until being erased completely), while Barry's character was given several controversial rewrites, including giving him a DarkerAndEdgier backstory involving his mother's murder which many felt was unnecessary, promoting him as the 'most important' of the Flash legacy that was felt as a deservice to the rest of the Flash family, who all in-turn were given a sharp DemotedToExtra status. On top of this came the ''New 52'' reboot, which while the Flash book was considered one of the strongest titles, its changes to the Rogues (now metahumans, something that annoyed Geoff Johns enough that he personally undid it with ''ComicBook/ForeverEvil''), as well as the entire Flash family outside of Barry being ''erased completely''. The run ''did'' bring in many new fans and inspired the basis of the 2014 TV series, but many older fans felt like it lost a lot of what made the Flash such a great legacy.

to:

** Barry's return has, in turn, met this reaction from many, particularly those that loved Wally's character. With Barry's return brought about a sudden demotion of Wally into an extra at best (until being erased completely), while Barry's character was given several controversial rewrites, including giving him a DarkerAndEdgier backstory involving his mother's murder which many felt was unnecessary, promoting him as the 'most important' of the Flash legacy that was felt as a deservice diservice to the rest of the Flash family, who all in-turn were given a sharp DemotedToExtra status. On top of this came the ''New 52'' reboot, which while the Flash book was considered one of the strongest titles, its changes to the Rogues (now metahumans, something that annoyed Geoff Johns enough that he personally undid it with ''ComicBook/ForeverEvil''), as well as the entire Flash family outside of Barry being ''erased completely''. The run ''did'' bring in many new fans and inspired the basis of the 2014 TV series, but many older fans felt like it lost a lot of what made the Flash such a great legacy.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DorkAge.TheDCU