History DorkAge / AnimeAndManga

30th Sep '16 4:29:01 PM MyFinalEdits
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* The genre in general was considered to be going through one during the later years of the TurnOfTheMillennium and the first half of TheNewTens, when there was a prominent shift towards LighterAndSofter {{Moe}} productions that [[PanderingToTheBase pandered]] to otakus, with [[AudienceALienatingPremise little to no regard]] towards international appeal. Meanwhile, the rise in fansubs and illegal torrenting discouraged dubbing companies from producing dubs for foreign audiences, who could easily download a fansubbed anime episode just hours after its Japanese airing for free. During this time, it became more popular to mock anime fans than to be one, with the {{Kawaiiko}} and OccidentalOtaku stereotypes becoming common insults against them. The age is arguably considered to be ending nowadays, since the airing [[Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica of]] [[Anime/DragonBallKai several]] [[Manga/HunterXHunter well]]-[[Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure received]], [[Manga/AttackOnTitan non]]-[[Anime/KillLaKill moe]] [[Anime/SpaceDandy anime]] [[Manga/PingPong in]] [[Manga/{{Parasyte}} recent]] [[Webcomic/OnePunchMan years]] and the revival of Toonami have [[WinBackTheCrowd spurred a renewed interest]] in anime & manga in the west and a gradually re-emerging interest in international appeal in the east (for instance, Toei Animation decided to [[{{Uncancelled}} uncancel]] ''Dragon Ball Kai'' as a result of the anime's wide appeal in the west).

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* The genre in general was considered to be going through one during the later years of the TurnOfTheMillennium and the first half of TheNewTens, when there was a prominent shift towards LighterAndSofter {{Moe}} productions that [[PanderingToTheBase pandered]] to otakus, with [[AudienceALienatingPremise little to no regard]] towards international appeal. Meanwhile, the rise in fansubs and illegal torrenting discouraged dubbing companies from producing dubs for foreign audiences, who could easily download a fansubbed anime episode just hours after its Japanese airing for free. During this time, it became more popular to mock anime fans than to be one, with the {{Kawaiiko}} and OccidentalOtaku stereotypes becoming common insults against them. The age is arguably considered to be ending nowadays, reach its final days, since the airing [[Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica of]] [[Anime/DragonBallKai several]] [[Manga/HunterXHunter well]]-[[Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure received]], [[Manga/AttackOnTitan non]]-[[Anime/KillLaKill moe]] [[Anime/SpaceDandy anime]] [[Manga/PingPong in]] [[Manga/{{Parasyte}} recent]] [[Webcomic/OnePunchMan years]] of several well-received, non-moe anime in the following years and the revival of Toonami have [[WinBackTheCrowd spurred a renewed interest]] in anime & manga in the west and a gradually re-emerging interest in international appeal in the east (for instance, Toei Animation decided to [[{{Uncancelled}} uncancel]] ''Dragon Ball Kai'' as a result of the anime's wide appeal in the west).



* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic roots of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Despite ''Dragon Ball'' creator Creator/AkiraToriyama having been heavily involved with the show's production and giving his personal approval of the series, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily for these fans, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only seen as superior sequels to ''Z'', but also seem to ignore ''GT'' entirely.

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* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic roots of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's ''GT'''s detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Despite ''Dragon Ball'' creator Creator/AkiraToriyama having been heavily involved with the show's production and giving his personal approval of the series, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily for these fans, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only seen as superior sequels to ''Z'', but also seem to ignore ''GT'' entirely.



* The retirement (which appears to be permanent [[TenMinuteRetirement this time]]) of Creator/HayaoMiyazaki in 2013 sent Creator/StudioGhibli into an existential crisis. But, even before Miyazaki gave up film-making, the studio is considered by its hardcore fans to have entered a Dork Age starting around 2004 when Miyazaki released ''Anime/HowlsMovingCastle'', which did well on both sides of the Pacific but got mixed reviews. This was followed by his son Goro's ''Anime/TalesFromEarthsea'', which was critically-panned ([[CreatorBacklash especially by Ursula K. LeGuin]]) and thrown into NoExportForYou limbo in North America for several years due to rights issues. After that came Miyazaki's ''Anime/{{Ponyo|On The Cliff By The Sea}}'', which was a return to the whimsical tone of his late-80s-era movies but still disappointed hardcore fans despite doing quite well at the box office. By 2010, longtime producer Toshio Suzuki openly speculated about closing the studio, although a shutdown was at least delayed by the modest success of ''Anime/{{Arrietty}}''.

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* The retirement (which appears to be permanent [[TenMinuteRetirement this time]]) of Creator/HayaoMiyazaki in 2013 sent Creator/StudioGhibli into an existential crisis. But, even before Miyazaki gave up film-making, the studio is considered by its hardcore fans to have entered a Dork Age starting around 2004 when Miyazaki released ''Anime/HowlsMovingCastle'', which did well on both sides of the Pacific but got mixed reviews. This was followed by his son Goro's ''Anime/TalesFromEarthsea'', which was critically-panned ([[CreatorBacklash especially by Ursula K. LeGuin]]) and thrown into NoExportForYou limbo in North America for several years due to rights issues. After that came Miyazaki's ''Anime/{{Ponyo|On The Cliff By The Sea}}'', which was a return to the whimsical tone of his late-80s-era movies but still disappointed hardcore fans despite doing quite well at the box office. By 2010, longtime producer Toshio Suzuki openly speculated about closing the studio, although a shutdown was at least delayed by the modest success of ''Anime/{{Arrietty}}''.



* ''Manga/SaintSeiya'' hit the dorkiest of all ages with ''Anime/SaintSeiyaOmega''. It's not Kurumada canon, it changed the super-suit from metal armor to spandex, it added a superhero school, the eponymous character is rarely in the spotlight(!), and so on. It seems that the writers eventually understood why it was so hated, and gave it a second season that thoroughly reverted all changes.
** On the other hand, this has caused a broken base, with people that ''liked'' the first season of ''Omega'' (including some fans who didn't like the original SS) being unhappy that they reverted things, and declaring season 2 a Dork Age.

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* ''Manga/SaintSeiya'' hit the dorkiest of all ages its dork age with ''Anime/SaintSeiyaOmega''. It's not Kurumada canon, it changed the super-suit from metal armor to spandex, it added a superhero school, the eponymous character is rarely in the spotlight(!), and so on. It seems that the writers eventually understood why it was so hated, and gave it a second season that thoroughly reverted all changes.
** On the other hand, this has caused a broken base, with people that ''liked'' the first season of ''Omega'' (including some fans who didn't like the original SS) being unhappy that they reverted things, and declaring season 2 a Dork Age.
changes.



* Happened to ''Anime/YuGiOh'' once it hit filler. Arcs tended to give Kaiba's backstory or company more prominence, and each arc had its own kind of sin for the fans: the Virtual World interrupted Battle City, and was incredibly weird and nonsensical to many people. Waking the Dragons/Doma had irrational characterization for both Yami and Mai, and screwed with the history of the Shadow Games, and the KC Tournament arc was perceived as just a long breather episode that did little even to expand on Kaiba's character, who the Big Bad of that arc was targeting. And that isn't even mentioning the oddness that is Capsule Monsters.
** And when the people who write the filler arcs have to do their own series, you get the first two seasons of ''Anime/YuGiOhGX''. The original series ending and the considerably lower quality of ''GX'''s dub did it no favors in the popularity department, but even fans of the series acknowledge that the series's lack of focus, slow pace, and excessive goofiness did a lot to ingrain the "[[FirstInstallmentWins spinoffs are always awful]]" mindset. That it came directly after one of the most filler-heavy and poorly-animated segments of the original meant that fans tend to label just about everything after Battle City to be a DorkAge. Thankfully, it GrewTheBeard with the Yubel arc, rescuing the franchise from its DorkAge in time for the first season of ''5Ds.''

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* Happened to ''Anime/YuGiOh'' once it hit filler. filler.
**
Arcs tended to give Kaiba's backstory or company more prominence, and each arc had its own kind of sin for the fans: the Virtual World interrupted Battle City, and was incredibly weird and nonsensical to many people. Waking the Dragons/Doma had irrational characterization for both Yami and Mai, and screwed with the history of the Shadow Games, and the KC Tournament arc was perceived as just a long breather episode that did little even to expand on Kaiba's character, who the Big Bad of that arc was targeting. And that isn't even mentioning the oddness that is Capsule Monsters.
** And when When the people who write the filler arcs have to do their own series, you get the first two seasons of ''Anime/YuGiOhGX''. The original series ending and the considerably lower quality of ''GX'''s dub did it no favors in the popularity department, but even fans of the series acknowledge that the series's lack of focus, slow pace, and excessive goofiness did a lot to ingrain the "[[FirstInstallmentWins spinoffs are always awful]]" mindset. That it came directly after one of the most filler-heavy and poorly-animated segments of the original meant that fans tend to label just about everything after Battle City to be a DorkAge. Thankfully, it GrewTheBeard with the Yubel arc, rescuing the franchise from its DorkAge in time for the first season of ''5Ds.''



** ''Anime/TransformersArmada'' was ''very'' rushed, with many bouts of OffModel on par with those seen in ''[[WesternAnimation/TheTransformers Generation 1]]'', an English dub with clunky dialogue, incorrect names and [[LullDestruction originally silent moments filled with inane chatter and stock phrases]], and a slow beginning with repetitive episodic adventures happening [[GrowingTheBeard before the plot really kicks off]]. But the main reason why ''Armada'' isn't considered the worst ''Transformers'' series ever...
** ... is because ''Anime/TransformersEnergon'' took that spot with almost little competition. All the problems with ''Armada'' were [[UpToEleven amplified]], with the plot starting off good, before repeating itself halfway in and having the final few episodes have nothing to do with anything, character arcs largely being quietly dropped or else ended in a way that doesn't actually resolve them, the setting robbing the cast of any real ''need'' to transform, and the CG models [[DullSurprise lacking emotion]] (to the point where sometimes they're hand-drawn ''just because it looks more impressive''). The dub is even worse - unfinished animation is used, LullDestruction is in full effect (seriously, count how many times you hear "Uhh?" in a moment of silence), mistranslations are plentiful, and an important episode that develops two characters is dropped and replaced with a non-canon Japanese special. [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Energon_%28cartoon%29 Just read what]] Wiki/TFWikiDotNet has to say about it.

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** ''Anime/TransformersArmada'' was ''very'' rushed, with many bouts of OffModel on par with those seen in ''[[WesternAnimation/TheTransformers Generation 1]]'', an English dub with clunky dialogue, incorrect names and [[LullDestruction originally silent moments filled with inane chatter and stock phrases]], and a slow beginning with repetitive episodic adventures happening [[GrowingTheBeard before the plot really kicks off]]. But the main reason why ''Armada'' isn't considered the worst ''Transformers'' series ever...
** ...
ever is because ''Anime/TransformersEnergon'' took that spot with almost little competition. All the problems with ''Armada'' were [[UpToEleven amplified]], with the plot starting off good, before repeating itself halfway in and having the final few episodes have nothing to do with anything, character arcs largely being quietly dropped or else ended in a way that doesn't actually resolve them, the setting robbing the cast of any real ''need'' to transform, and the CG models [[DullSurprise lacking emotion]] (to the point where sometimes they're hand-drawn ''just because it looks more impressive''). The dub is even worse - unfinished animation is used, LullDestruction is in full effect (seriously, count how many times you hear "Uhh?" in a moment of silence), mistranslations are plentiful, and an important episode that develops two characters is dropped and replaced with a non-canon Japanese special. [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Energon_%28cartoon%29 Just read what]] Wiki/TFWikiDotNet has to say about it.
19th Sep '16 11:51:12 AM SpinAttaxx
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** Kalos is considered a Dork Age for Japanese fans. The main factors are most likely [[SatelliteCharacter Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash]], and the rise of ''Franchise/YokaiWatch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokémon'' (though this could be reversed with the advent of ''VideoGame/PokemonGo''). Oddly, while [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Western fans considered Kalos an improvement]], this changed when [[spoiler:[[StatusQuoIsGod Ash lost the Kalos League to Alain]], when everything hyped the episode up so that he would actually win]], thus this season is now considered a Dork Age amongst Western fans too. Take a hint, TV-Tokyo: the fans don't like [[spoiler:Ash being a FailureHero]].

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** Kalos is considered a Dork Age for Japanese fans. The main factors are most likely [[SatelliteCharacter Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash]], and the rise of ''Franchise/YokaiWatch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokémon'' (though this could be reversed with the advent of ''VideoGame/PokemonGo''). Oddly, while [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Western fans considered Kalos an improvement]], this changed when [[spoiler:[[StatusQuoIsGod Ash lost the Kalos League to Alain]], when everything hyped the episode up so that he would actually win]], thus this season is now considered a Dork Age amongst Western fans too. Take a hint, TV-Tokyo: too (those that kept watching, however, felt that the fans don't like [[spoiler:Ash being a FailureHero]].Team Flare arc which followed at least partially made up for it).
3rd Sep '16 4:11:05 PM SpinAttaxx
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** ... is because ''Anime/TransformersEnergon'' took that spot with almost little competition. All the problems with ''Armada'' were [[UpToEleven amplified]], with the plot starting off good, before repeating itself halfway in and having the final few episodes have nothing to do with anything, character arcs largely being quietly dropped or else ended in a way that doesn't actually resolve them, the setting robbing the cast of any real ''need'' to transform, and the CG models [[DullSurprise lacking emotion]] (to the point where sometimes they're hand-drawn ''just because it looks more impressive''). The dub is even worse - unfinished animation is used, LullDestruction is in full effect (seriously, count how many times you hear "Uhh?" in a moment of silence), mistranslations are plentiful and an important episode is dropped and replaced with ''a Japanese special that is non-canon in the series''. [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Energon_%28cartoon%29 Just read what]] Wiki/TFWikiDotNet has to say about it.
** ''Anime/TransformersCybertron'' is, however, agreed to be a ''massive'' improvement over its predecessors (with the dub and animation being far less shoddy than them), though it still has its flaws (such as an abundance of StockFootage used to pad episodes and a drawn-out first half with a comparatively trunciated second half).
* ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'': You'll get a lot of answers for what the anime's have been. Two examples crop up more often than others: Johto and Unova.
** The first one (chronologically) is Johto; between the start of the fall of Team Rocket, Brock and Misty being reduced to moving background, {{Flanderization}} of the main cast, and the "Filler Hell" in general. While it started within Season 3 (with the GS Ball becoming an AbortedArc and such), it is Season 4 where the reputation for Johto comes from: very little of significance takes place (no captures, only several evolutions and three ''very'' spaced-out badges), and the {{Filler}} was less memorable overall - the slower pacing led to much of the old vanguard becoming disillusioned with the show. That said, the succeeding "Master Quest" season is largely considered a return to form: more development of the show's MythArc, more {{Story Arc}}s to spice up the plot, stronger standalone episodes, and wrapping up the Original Series with a solid TournamentArc (the Silver Conference being a ToughActToFollow judging from the overall response to later League arcs) makes people more forgiving of it compared to what Johto previously gave them.
** Unova, due to how hard the ResetButton was pressed, the amount of [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot potentially awesome plot threads that were left untapped]], having ''several'' [[TheScrappy Scrappys]], the massive AssPull to make Ash lose at the Unova League that's possibly worse than [[DiabolusExMachina Tobias]], [[EndingFatigue and ending on a]] FillerArc. [[FleetingDemographicRule And that's]] [[ReplacementScrappy not even]] [[PlotHole getting into]] [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the Genesect movie]].
** Kalos is considered the Dork Age for Japanese fans, while it's the opposite in the western world. The main factors are most likely Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash, and the rise of ''Yo-Kai Watch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokemon'' (this could be reversed with the advent of ''Pokemon GO'', however). Oddly, this actually changed when [[spoiler:Ash lost the Kalos League to Alain, when everything was hyping up that he would actually win]] thus this season is now considered a Dork Age for the Western fans. Take a hint: TV-Tokyo: the fans don't like [[spoiler:Ash being a FailureHero]]

to:

** ... is because ''Anime/TransformersEnergon'' took that spot with almost little competition. All the problems with ''Armada'' were [[UpToEleven amplified]], with the plot starting off good, before repeating itself halfway in and having the final few episodes have nothing to do with anything, character arcs largely being quietly dropped or else ended in a way that doesn't actually resolve them, the setting robbing the cast of any real ''need'' to transform, and the CG models [[DullSurprise lacking emotion]] (to the point where sometimes they're hand-drawn ''just because it looks more impressive''). The dub is even worse - unfinished animation is used, LullDestruction is in full effect (seriously, count how many times you hear "Uhh?" in a moment of silence), mistranslations are plentiful plentiful, and an important episode that develops two characters is dropped and replaced with ''a Japanese special that is a non-canon in the series''.Japanese special. [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Energon_%28cartoon%29 Just read what]] Wiki/TFWikiDotNet has to say about it.
** ''Anime/TransformersCybertron'' is, however, agreed to be a ''massive'' improvement over its predecessors (with the dub and animation being far less shoddy than them), though it still has its flaws (such as an abundance of StockFootage used to pad episodes episodes, and a drawn-out first half with a comparatively trunciated second half).
* ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'': You'll get a lot of answers for what counts as the anime's have been.show's Dork Age (and if it has ever left it). Two examples crop up more often than others: Johto and Unova.
** The first one (chronologically) Johto is Johto; between a common citation as it contains the start of the fall of Team Rocket, Brock and Misty being reduced to moving background, {{Flanderization}} {{flanderization}} of the main cast, and the "Filler Hell" in general. While it started within Season 3 (with the GS Ball becoming an AbortedArc and such), it is Season 4 where the reputation for Johto comes from: very little of significance takes place (no captures, only several evolutions and three ''very'' spaced-out badges), and the {{Filler}} {{filler}} was less memorable overall - the slower pacing led to much of the old vanguard becoming disillusioned with the show. That said, the succeeding "Master Quest" season is largely considered a return to form: more development of the show's MythArc, more {{Story Arc}}s to spice up the plot, stronger standalone episodes, and wrapping up the Original Series with a solid TournamentArc (the Silver Conference being a ToughActToFollow judging from the overall response to later League arcs) makes people more forgiving of it compared to what Johto previously gave them.
** Unova, Unova is brought up a lot due to how hard the ResetButton was pressed, pressed for Ash, the amount of [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot potentially awesome plot threads that were left untapped]], having ''several'' [[TheScrappy Scrappys]], the massive AssPull to make Ash lose at the Unova League that's possibly worse than [[DiabolusExMachina Tobias]], [[EndingFatigue and ending on a]] FillerArc. [[FleetingDemographicRule And that's]] [[ReplacementScrappy not even]] [[PlotHole getting into]] [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the Genesect movie]].
** Kalos is considered the a Dork Age for Japanese fans, while it's the opposite in the western world. fans. The main factors are most likely [[SatelliteCharacter Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash, Ash]], and the rise of ''Yo-Kai Watch'', ''Franchise/YokaiWatch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokemon'' (this ''Pokémon'' (though this could be reversed with the advent of ''Pokemon GO'', however). ''VideoGame/PokemonGo''). Oddly, while [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Western fans considered Kalos an improvement]], this actually changed when [[spoiler:Ash [[spoiler:[[StatusQuoIsGod Ash lost the Kalos League to Alain, Alain]], when everything was hyping hyped the episode up so that he would actually win]] win]], thus this season is now considered a Dork Age for the amongst Western fans. fans too. Take a hint: hint, TV-Tokyo: the fans don't like [[spoiler:Ash being a FailureHero]]FailureHero]].
20th Aug '16 4:18:49 PM Blazer
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** Kalos is considered the Dork Age for Japanese fans, while it's the opposite in the western world. The main factors are most likely Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash, and the rise of ''Yo-Kai Watch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokemon'' (this could be reversed with the advent of ''Pokemon GO'', however).

to:

** Kalos is considered the Dork Age for Japanese fans, while it's the opposite in the western world. The main factors are most likely Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash, and the rise of ''Yo-Kai Watch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokemon'' (this could be reversed with the advent of ''Pokemon GO'', however). Oddly, this actually changed when [[spoiler:Ash lost the Kalos League to Alain, when everything was hyping up that he would actually win]] thus this season is now considered a Dork Age for the Western fans. Take a hint: TV-Tokyo: the fans don't like [[spoiler:Ash being a FailureHero]]
25th Jul '16 12:48:49 AM BNSF1995
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Added DiffLines:

** Kalos is considered the Dork Age for Japanese fans, while it's the opposite in the western world. The main factors are most likely Serena's character being built almost entirely around her crush on Ash, and the rise of ''Yo-Kai Watch'', which is seen as the death of ''Pokemon'' (this could be reversed with the advent of ''Pokemon GO'', however).
14th Jun '16 11:43:07 PM ShiroAkuma
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* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic routes of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Despite ''Dragon Ball'' creator Creator/AkiraToriyama having been heavily involved with the show's production and giving his personal approval of the series, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily for these fans, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only seen as superior sequels to ''Z'', but also seem to ignore ''GT'' entirely.

to:

* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic routes roots of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Despite ''Dragon Ball'' creator Creator/AkiraToriyama having been heavily involved with the show's production and giving his personal approval of the series, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily for these fans, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only seen as superior sequels to ''Z'', but also seem to ignore ''GT'' entirely.
9th Jun '16 11:14:48 PM bowserbros
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* While ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' is still very popular in Japan and considerably well-loved in the west, each region has their own candidate for the comic's low point:
** In Japan, ''Diamond is Unbreakable'' is seen as a rather inferior PostScriptSeason compared to the first three parts. Reasons for this include the [[{{Retcon}} retcons]] of the bow & arrow and the protagonist Josuke being the illegitimate son of Joseph, the incredibly formulaic MonsterOfTheWeek plotline (which had already been established as a formula in ''Stardust Crusaders''), and the lack of a real end goal until Reimi Sugimoto and Yoshikage Kira show up. Not helping is Creator/HirohikoAraki displaying a conspicuous bias in favor of ''[=DiU=]'', classifying Josuke as his favorite [=JoJo=] and pushing for representation of part 4 to the point where Japanese fans see it as over-represented.
** Overseas fans of the series tend to look down on ''Vento Aureo'' due to the perception of main protagonist Giorno as bland and uninteresting (though translations may be to blame for this), the extremely-formulaic MonsterOfTheWeek nature that exacerbated the flaws of the previous two parts' plot styles, the [[{{Narm}} narmily]]-[[WTHCostumingAgency designed]] and overly-generic villain Diavolo, and the ending, which reeks of DeusExMachina even by ''[=JoJo=]'' standards. Detractors take particular ire towards Giorno, who for the latter reason plus the fact that he's the illegitimate son of [[GreaterScopeVillain D]][[CrazyAwesome I]][[MagnificentBastard O]] (even reappropriating his battle cry of "MUDA MUDA MUDA") comes off as somewhat of a MartyStu.
** Interestingly enough, each of the above parts that is loathed in one region is highly enjoyed in the other.
1st Jun '16 5:21:05 PM bowserbros
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* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic routes of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Today, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only superior sequels to ''Z'', but also ignore ''GT'' entirely.

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* Many, '''many''' fans of ''Franchise/DragonBall'' see ''Anime/DragonBallGT'' as this. After the end of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', Creator/ToeiAnimation decided to bank off of ''Z'' 's success by creating an original sequel series taking place after Goku leaves to train Uub. The anime attempted to [[LighterAndSofter return]] the franchise to the comedic routes of the original ''Manga/DragonBall'', but suddenly went back to ''Z'' 's DarkerAndEdgier tone after Toei realized how little people appreciated the comedy. Many of ''GT'' 's detractors state that both the comedy and drama of the show was shoehorned in compared to the more natural flow of the original manga, and the [[CerebusRollercoaster sudden shifts in tone]] taken by ''GT'' certainly didn't help matters. Today, Despite ''Dragon Ball'' creator Creator/AkiraToriyama having been heavily involved with the show's production and giving his personal approval of the series, it's become so disliked that one of the biggest [[BrokenBase points of debate]] in the fandom is whether or not the show is canon. Luckily, Luckily for these fans, Toei seems to have redeemed themselves with ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'', ''Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF'', and ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', which are not only seen as superior sequels to ''Z'', but also seem to ignore ''GT'' entirely.
29th May '16 9:23:32 PM Willbyr
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* The second season of the ''BlackButler'' anime is seen as this by nearly all of the fandom. The {{shotacon}} fanservice was cranked up to intolerably {{squick}}y levels, the new characters were poorly written and completely unlikable (and the returning ones were derailed or {{flanderized}}), and the plot was a near-complete mess that had nothing to do with the manga and had a GainaxEnding. It took ''years'' for another season to be made, and it unsurprisingly ignores everything that happened in this.

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* The second season of the ''BlackButler'' ''Manga/BlackButler'' anime is seen as this by nearly all of the fandom. The {{shotacon}} fanservice was cranked up to intolerably {{squick}}y levels, the new characters were poorly written and completely unlikable (and the returning ones were derailed or {{flanderized}}), and the plot was a near-complete mess that had nothing to do with the manga and had a GainaxEnding. It took ''years'' for another season to be made, and it unsurprisingly ignores everything that happened in this.
18th Apr '16 1:44:54 PM mlsmithca
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* ''Manga/AstroBoy'' might be a classic, but not even it is immune to dork ages. In the sixties, Tezuka had Astro Boy go through a FaceHeelTurn, and wrote a story where a construction error turned Astro Boy evil. Instead of being a champion of justice who never wanted to hurt a human being, the evil Astro didn't care a bit about human lives anymore. Tezuka didn't actually like the idea of Astro Boy turning evil, but his editor insisted that an Astro Boy who killed people and destroyed buildings would be more interesting. Though Tezuka was fully aware that violent anti-heroes were the latest trend in manga, he didn't feel that it was the way to go for Astro Boy. Still, the editor [[ExecutiveMeddling made Tezuka change Astro.]] Tezuka himself was convinced that the readers preferred Astro to be a good-hearted robot, and was proven right when the readers turned out to have zero interest in reading about an evil Astro Boy. Tezuka [[HeelFaceTurn changed him back,]] but it took a lot of time and effort to get the series' popularity back.

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* ''Manga/AstroBoy'' might be a classic, but not even it is immune to dork ages. In the sixties, Tezuka had Astro Boy go through a FaceHeelTurn, and wrote a story where a construction error turned Astro Boy evil. Instead of being a champion of justice who never wanted to hurt a human being, the evil Astro didn't care a bit about human lives anymore. Tezuka didn't actually like the idea of Astro Boy turning evil, but his editor insisted that an Astro Boy who killed people and destroyed buildings would be more interesting. Though Tezuka was fully aware that violent anti-heroes were the latest trend in manga, he didn't feel that it was the way to go for Astro Boy. Still, the editor Boy, but his [[ExecutiveMeddling made Tezuka change Astro.editor insisted that an Astro Boy who killed people and destroyed buildings would be more interesting.]] Tezuka himself was convinced that the readers preferred Astro to be a good-hearted robot, and was proven right when the readers turned out to have zero interest in reading about an evil Astro Boy. Tezuka [[HeelFaceTurn changed him back,]] but it took a lot of time and effort to get the series' popularity back.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DorkAge.AnimeAndManga