History Disney / TheLionKingIISimbasPride

12th May '17 7:06:06 PM ngh93
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** Zira blames Kovu for Nuka's death though it was an accident, yet ''she worships Scar who killed his brother on purpose''

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** Zira blames Kovu for Nuka's death though it was an accident, yet ''she worships Scar who killed his brother on purpose''purpose''.
30th Apr '17 10:01:37 PM hopeshalllive
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Added DiffLines:

* DisproportionateRetribution: Simba roaring at Kovu simply for playing with his daughter is a blatant case of this. While you could understand being worried when he found out about her getting away, Kovu is only playing with Kiara, and Zira had not revealed herself yet, so roaring at a cub who is doing nothing but playing innocently is going way, way too far. Simba really should have just approached calmly and asked him who he was.
20th Apr '17 1:05:44 AM gjjones
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** Simba after Kiara's WhatTheHellHero moment when Kovu is exiled.

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** Simba after Kiara's WhatTheHellHero moment moment.
** Simba again
when Kovu is exiled.he realizes that Kiara has ran off to search for Kovu.
20th Apr '17 1:01:30 AM gjjones
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* {{Big Bad}}: [[DragonAscendant Zira]], who wants to kill Simba and the Pridelanders.
* BigNever: In the original ending, this is uttered by [[DragonAscendant Zira]] at the end of refusing to accept Kiara's offer to rescue her before she [[DisneyVillainDeath falls to her doom]] in the river below. This was cut for [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath being too dark]]; the final cut only involves Zira struggling for Kiara's paw before screaming as she falls into the giant-log-filled river.

to:

* {{Big Bad}}: BigBad: [[DragonAscendant Zira]], who wants to kill Simba and the Pridelanders.
* BigNever: In the original ending, this is uttered by ending [[DragonAscendant Zira]] utters one at the end of refusing to accept Kiara's offer to rescue her before she [[DisneyVillainDeath falls to her doom]] in the river below. This was cut for [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath being too dark]]; the final cut only involves Zira struggling for Kiara's paw before screaming as she falls into the giant-log-filled river.



** Despite the fact that it was done to avoid unfortunate [[KissingCousins incestual implications,]] the idea of Kovu hand-chosen without being his blood by the self-centred Scar requires quite a stretch of imagination.

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** Despite the fact that it was done to avoid unfortunate [[KissingCousins incestual implications,]] implications]], the idea of Kovu hand-chosen without being his blood by the self-centred Scar requires quite a stretch of imagination.



** Kiara tries to do this several times to her OverprotectiveDad, but it never seems to take until Simba banishes Kovu, resulting in [[WhatTheHellHero "You will never be Mufasa!"]]


Added DiffLines:

** Kiara tries several times to call her father out for his overprotectiveness, but it never seems to take until Simba banishes Kovu, resulting in "[[WhamLine You will]] [[WhatTheHellHero never be Mufasa]]!"
20th Apr '17 12:59:15 AM gjjones
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* CrowdSong: "Not One of Us" is a remarkably dark one.

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* CrowdSong: "Not One "One of Us" is a remarkably dark one.



* DarkerAndEdgier: Even in comparison to the first movie, the sequel is arguably much more intense. The villain of this one is motivated primarily by spite and vengeance, whereas at least Scar had the semi-pragmatic motive of greed. Zira's VillainSong is almost entirely about how much she LovesTheSoundOfScreaming, and said song is considerably more vicious than Scar's VillainSong. In general, the very style of this movie is arguably much darker than the first movie, like during the fire scene, [[spoiler:wherein we see Kiara surrounded by flames, coughing from the smoke, and collapsing from exhaustion,]] or during Zira's first attack, [[spoiler:when Simba is being [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown mercilessly mauled by several other lions]],]] and then there is "He Is Not One Of Us" where the Pridelanders are all announcing their intense hatred for Kovu, who is not even guilty of what they are all accusing him of in the first place. The movie was even toned down by the alteration of some scenes, the best example being [[spoiler:Zira's death at the end.]] Originally, it was suicide.

to:

* DarkerAndEdgier: Even in comparison to the first movie, the sequel is arguably much more intense. The villain of this one is motivated primarily by spite and vengeance, whereas at least Scar had the semi-pragmatic motive of greed. Zira's VillainSong is almost entirely about how much she LovesTheSoundOfScreaming, and said song is considerably more vicious than Scar's VillainSong. In general, the very style of this movie is arguably much darker than the first movie, like during the fire scene, [[spoiler:wherein we see Kiara surrounded by flames, coughing from the smoke, and collapsing from exhaustion,]] or during Zira's first attack, [[spoiler:when Simba is being [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown mercilessly mauled by several other lions]],]] and then there is "He Is Not One "One Of Us" where the Pridelanders are all announcing their intense hatred for Kovu, who is not even guilty of what they are all accusing him of in the first place. The movie was even toned down by the alteration of some scenes, the best example being [[spoiler:Zira's death at the end.]] Originally, it was suicide.



* DidNotThinkThisThrough: Zira choosing Kovu as the one to infiltrate the Pridelanders. For a start he ''already'' got attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power to begin with, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka - who was more violent ''and'' desperate to please her - rather than the inherently sweet natured Kovu.



* DidntThinkThisThrough: Zira choosing Kovu as the one to infiltrate the Pridelanders. For a start he ''already'' got attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power to begin with, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka - who was more violent ''and'' desperate to please her - rather than the inherently sweet natured Kovu.



* EvilCannotComprehendGood: Zira's undoing is ''severely'' underestimating how good of a person Kovu is. As pointed out under DidNotThinkThisThrough, she automatically sees Kovu and Kiara's friendship as a chance for Kovu to kill Simba...not considering that their attachment actually suggests that Kovu is the ''worst'' person to send to the Pridelanders. It clearly never occurred to her that Kovu's original affection for Kiara could override years of indoctrination, or that experiencing the Pridelanders kinder lifestyle would make him realize he was on the wrong side. Sure enough it takes barely a day for Kovu to redevelop feelings for Kiara and refuse to become a killer.

to:

* EvilCannotComprehendGood: Zira's undoing is ''severely'' underestimating how good of a person Kovu is. As pointed out under DidNotThinkThisThrough, DidntThinkThisThrough, she automatically sees Kovu and Kiara's friendship as a chance for Kovu to kill Simba...not considering that their attachment actually suggests that Kovu is the ''worst'' person to send to the Pridelanders. It clearly never occurred to her that Kovu's original affection for Kiara could override years of indoctrination, or that experiencing the Pridelanders kinder lifestyle would make him realize he was on the wrong side. Sure enough it takes barely a day for Kovu to redevelop feelings for Kiara and refuse to become a killer.



* GoodScarsEvilScars: Kovu ends up getting a scar identical to Scar's, but that happens after he's decided to [[BecomingTheMask become the mask]]. The song "Not One of Us" has the animals believing it's an evil scar.

to:

* GoodScarsEvilScars: Kovu ends up getting a scar identical to Scar's, but that happens after he's decided to [[BecomingTheMask become the mask]]. The song "Not One "One of Us" has the animals believing it's an evil scar.



* TheHeroSucksSong: "One Of Us" which has [[spoiler: Kovu]] "booed" off of Pride Rock because Simba believes that he attempted to [[spoiler: ambush him]] while the two had a friendly chat on a trek through the jungle.

to:

* TheHeroSucksSong: "One Of Us" which has [[spoiler: Kovu]] "booed" off forced out of Pride Rock because Simba believes that he attempted to [[spoiler: ambush him]] while the two had a friendly chat on a trek through the jungle.



* JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope: Subverted. Although most of his decisions are understandable and realistic given what happened to him and the situation he finds himself in, Simba's actions are certainly not portrayed as good at all, and he arguably makes the plot worse. He reaches the lowest end when he banishes Kovu for a crime we know he had not done at all. Thankfully, when Kiara calls him on this, he doesn't take the jump off the slippery slope, but he remains an AntiHero at the end of the film.

to:

* JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope: Subverted. Although most of his decisions are understandable and realistic given what happened to him and the situation he finds himself in, Simba's actions are certainly not portrayed as good at all, and he arguably makes the plot worse. He reaches the lowest end when he banishes Kovu for a crime we know he had not hadn't done at all. Thankfully, when Kiara calls him on this, he doesn't take the jump off the slippery slope, but he remains an AntiHero at the end of the film.



* OhCrap: Even the Outlanders become still with concern when Zira enters the fight in the climax.

to:

* OhCrap: Even the Outlanders become still with concern when Zira enters the fight in the climax.OhCrap:



** Kovu when Simba exiles him from the Pride Lands.
** Simba after Kiara's WhatTheHellHero moment when Kovu is exiled.
** Even the Outlanders become still with concern when Zira enters the fight in the climax.



* RealityEnsues: Simba arguably suffers this after assuming his throne. Despite destiny and all the trials he went through to become a far better king than Scar ever could be, it's clear that he still hasn't learned every lesson he needs to in order to become a truly great king.

to:

* RealityEnsues: Simba arguably suffers this after assuming his throne. Despite destiny and all the trials he Simba went through to become a far better king than Scar ever could be, it's clear that he still hasn't learned every lesson he needs to in order to become a truly great king.



* RejectionRitual: The "He is not One of Us" sequence. Everyone present (minus the Royal Family) sing their hatred at Kovu, who also has to run a gauntlet.

to:

* RejectionRitual: The "He is not One "One of Us" sequence. Everyone present (minus the Royal Family) sing their hatred at Kovu, who also has to run a gauntlet.



* SanitySlippage: Simba might be going through this, considering the trauma from the first film leaving its mark on him, something underscored even more by his BadDreams, implied to be recurring ones, which say a lot about the state of his psyche. All of his previous decisions, although antagonistic, are completely understandable. However, at the trial and during the final battle, he is far more angry, and far more violent, not to mention his inability to listen to something that is pretty reasonable, and he is nowhere near the calm, if fierce, character we saw during both films. There is a rather large amount of NightmareFuel in the idea of Simba losing his sanity and therefore becoming that which he hates the most. Thankfully, Kiara is able to save him from losing anymore sanity and brings him back from the brink.

to:

* SanitySlippage: Simba might be going through this, losing his mind, considering the trauma from the first film leaving its mark on him, something underscored even more by his BadDreams, implied to be recurring ones, which say a lot about the state of his psyche. All of his previous decisions, although antagonistic, are completely understandable. However, at the trial and during the final battle, he is far more angry, and far more violent, not to mention as well as his inability to listen to something that is pretty reasonable, and he is nowhere near the calm, if fierce, character we saw during both films. There is a rather large amount of NightmareFuel in the idea of Simba losing his sanity and therefore becoming that which he hates the most. Thankfully, Kiara is able to save him from losing anymore sanity and brings him back from the brink.



* WhamLine: "You will NEVER be Mufasa!"

to:

* WhamLine: "You will NEVER ''never'' be Mufasa!"



* WhatTheHellHero: Towards the end, Simba sharply scolds Kiara for "blindly" trusting Kovu, which nearly got him killed. Kiara responds with her ''own'' WhatTheHellHero in five simple words: "You will ''never'' be Mufasa!"
* WhatWouldXDo: Actually Simba's biggest failing. He's so focused on trying to be as good as Mufasa that he ends up making knee-jerk reactions when something unexpected happens and cocks everything up. Kiara [[WhatTheHellHero calls him out on it big time]].

to:

* WhatTheHellHero: Towards the end, Simba sharply scolds Kiara for "blindly" trusting Kovu, which nearly got him killed. Kiara responds with her ''own'' WhatTheHellHero one in five simple words: "You will ''never'' be Mufasa!"
* WhatWouldXDo: Actually Simba's biggest failing. He's so focused on trying to be as good as Mufasa that he ends up making knee-jerk reactions when something unexpected happens and cocks screws everything up. Kiara [[WhatTheHellHero calls him out on it big time]].



* YouCantFightFate: ''"Helpless to defy his fate!"'' This lyric in "Not One of Us" suggests that the singers believe Kovu couldn't ''not'' be a follower of Zira even if he wanted to.

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* YouCantFightFate: ''"Helpless to defy his fate!"'' This lyric in "Not One "One of Us" suggests that the singers believe Kovu couldn't ''not'' be a follower of Zira even if he wanted to.
23rd Mar '17 5:39:04 AM MagBas
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* AbsurdlySharpClaw: Zira's claws are shown to go through ''solid rock''.

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* AbsurdlySharpClaw: AbsurdlySharpClaws: Zira's claws are shown to go through ''solid rock''.
23rd Mar '17 5:37:55 AM MagBas
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* AbsurdlySharpClaw: Zira's are shown to go through ''solid rock''.

to:

* AbsurdlySharpClaw: Zira's claws are shown to go through ''solid rock''.
23rd Mar '17 5:35:21 AM ben9192
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* AbsurdlySharpBlade: In this case, Zira's claws - they have been shown to claw through ''solid rock''.

to:

* AbsurdlySharpBlade: In this case, AbsurdlySharpClaw: Zira's claws - they have been are shown to claw go through ''solid rock''.



** There's also Zira's ear, which is partially torn, but it remains unknown as to how she got it.

to:

** There's also Zira's ear, which is partially torn, but it remains unknown as to how she got it.it... like Scar.
* PlotRelevantAgeUp: The story understandly jumps forward in time to proceed to the romance part (which needs mature characters). However, the way it is introduced makes it look like the two protagonists suddenly grew up. It’s the case to a mild extent with Zira who is pleased about the big-built lion Kovu has become more like if it was a recent thing and not the long result of years of training (unless she is emphasizing about how much he is ready). It is more obvious with Kiara, whom the Pride congratulates for the beautiful young lioness she has become, one saying “My, how you have grown”, like if they were discovering her at the same time than the viewers… despite she is supposed to have been living with them for all this time.
12th Mar '17 2:58:54 PM BB8ForPresident
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* DidNotThinkThisThrough: Zira's whole plan to have Kovu infiltrate the Pridelanders and kill Simba. For a start he was ''already'' attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power to bein with, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka - who was more violent ''and'' desperate to please her - rather than the inherently sweet natured Kovu.

to:

* DidNotThinkThisThrough: Zira's whole plan to have Zira choosing Kovu as the one to infiltrate the Pridelanders and kill Simba. Pridelanders. For a start he was ''already'' got attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power to bein begin with, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka - who was more violent ''and'' desperate to please her - rather than the inherently sweet natured Kovu.
12th Mar '17 2:57:32 PM BB8ForPresident
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* DidNotThinkThisThrough: Zira's whole plan to have Kovu infiltrate the Pridelanders and kill Simba. For a start he was ''already'' attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power or kingship anyway, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer, even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka who was more savage and desperate to please her, rather than the sweet natured Kovu.

to:

* DidNotThinkThisThrough: Zira's whole plan to have Kovu infiltrate the Pridelanders and kill Simba. For a start he was ''already'' attached to Kiara as a cub, so sending him to befriend her risked him redeveloping that connection, he never wanted power or kingship anyway, to bein with, and Zira implies he argued with her morals even after he'd grown up. Her whole scheme depended on her brainwashing the softest hearted cub available and hope he'd remain a ruthless killer, killer even when around genuinely good lions. It would have been better to send in Nuka - who was more savage and violent ''and'' desperate to please her, her - rather than the inherently sweet natured Kovu.



* EvilCannotComprehendGood: Zira's undoing is ''severely'' underestimating how good of a person Kovu is. As pointed out under DidNotThinkThisThrough, she automatically sees Kovu and Kiara's friendship as a chance for Kovu to kill Simba...not considering that their attachment actually suggests that Kovu is the ''worst'' person to send to the Pridelanders. It clearly never occurred to her that Kovu's original affection for Kiara could override her years of indoctrination, or that experiencing the Pridelanders kinder lifestyle would make him realize he was on the wrong side. Sure enough it takes barely a day for Kovu to redevelop feelings for Kiara and refuse to become a killer.

to:

* EvilCannotComprehendGood: Zira's undoing is ''severely'' underestimating how good of a person Kovu is. As pointed out under DidNotThinkThisThrough, she automatically sees Kovu and Kiara's friendship as a chance for Kovu to kill Simba...not considering that their attachment actually suggests that Kovu is the ''worst'' person to send to the Pridelanders. It clearly never occurred to her that Kovu's original affection for Kiara could override her years of indoctrination, or that experiencing the Pridelanders kinder lifestyle would make him realize he was on the wrong side. Sure enough it takes barely a day for Kovu to redevelop feelings for Kiara and refuse to become a killer.
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