History Discworld / CarpeJugulum

16th Feb '17 7:16:50 AM PaulA
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* EitherWorldDominationOrSomethingAboutBananas: Mightily Oats notes that although the Old Book of Om is very clear about what should be done to witches, there's a school of thought which believes the passage in question has been mistranslated and was originally referring to cockroaches, and the bit about them bringing lavicious dreams might just as easily be read in context as being about boiled lobsters.
9th Feb '17 3:14:16 AM NanoMoose
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** Importantly, the whole book Oats had tried to gain faith by reading random passages from the Book of Om. When he meets Granny she stresses that he has the ability to make his own faith...and in the end, he does.

to:

** Importantly, the whole book Oats had tried to gain faith by reading random passages from the Book of Om. When he meets Granny she stresses that he has the ability to make his own faith... and in the end, he does.



* BurnTheWitch: When Oats mentions the records of Omnians doing this, Granny suggests that the victims were more likely ordinary old women who looked like easy targets. In her opinion, witches are more likely to be the ones ''doing'' the burning ("We ain't all nice.")

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* BurnTheWitch: When Oats mentions the records of Omnians doing this, Granny suggests that the victims were more likely ordinary old women who looked like easy targets. In her opinion, witches are more likely to be the ones ''doing'' the burning burning. ("We ain't all nice.")



* DeconReconSwitch: Of the ClassicalMovieVampire, especially Dracula himself. The Magpyrs are the deconstruction, having overcome their various weaknesses and dropped the VillainBall so that they can be effective monsters and rule over humanity. Granny presents the reconstruction, and this is demonstrated by the Old Count, who is a good sport about the traditional cycle - just enough of a threat that his victims get to have a fun adventure without anybody getting seriously hurt, including him.

to:

* DeconReconSwitch: Of the ClassicalMovieVampire, especially Dracula himself. The Magpyrs are the deconstruction, having overcome their various weaknesses and dropped the VillainBall so that they can be effective monsters and rule over humanity. Granny presents the reconstruction, and this is demonstrated by the Old Count, who is a good sport about the traditional cycle - -- just enough of a threat that his victims get to have a fun adventure without anybody getting seriously hurt, including him.



** Once Count von Magpyr takes baby Esmerelda hostage, Igor decides that enough's enough and revives the old Count. ([[KickTheDog Killing his dog]] probably factored into it, too.)
*** Though this is more a case of Igor's personal GodzillaThreshold being crossed. A more classic example is him being confronted with the prospect of the Magpyrs using the mist trick to get through the vault door that Magrat and baby Esmerelda are behind, simply because it's so unsporting.

to:

** Once Count von Magpyr takes baby Esmerelda hostage, Igor decides that enough's enough and revives the old Count. ([[KickTheDog Killing his dog]] probably factored into it, too.)
*** Though this is
Count, that that may more be a case of Igor's personal GodzillaThreshold being crossed. ([[KickTheDog Killing his dog]] probably factored into it as well.) A more classic example is him being confronted with the prospect of the Magpyrs using the mist trick to get through the vault door that Magrat and baby Esmerelda are behind, simply because it's so unsporting.



* FightingFromTheInside: King Verence is shown noticeably attempting to resist the vampires' mind control.

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* FightingFromTheInside: King Verence is shown noticeably attempting to resist the vampires' mind control. [[spoiler:Agnes also shrugs off being turned by Vlad, though it helped that she was more "Weatherwaxed" than "vampired".]]



** The vampyres try to portray themselves this way, but completely fail due to their IndustrializedEvil being worse than popping up every few decades to terrorize the populace.
** The Old Count, due to his FairPlayVillain status, ends up as this. Yes, he's a monster who feeds on the living, but he never pretended to be anything else, he's a FriendlyEnemy who's free with the VillainRespect, nobody ever got ''too'' seriously hurt, and fighting him is good sport for the local lads and the occasional lass every generation or so.

to:

** The vampyres try to portray themselves this way, but completely fail due to their IndustrializedEvil being worse than popping up every few decades to terrorize the populace.
populace and get put down.
** The Old Count, due to his FairPlayVillain status, ends up as this. Yes, he's a monster who feeds on the living, but he never pretended to be anything else, he's a FriendlyEnemy who's free with the VillainRespect, nobody ever got ''too'' seriously hurt, and fighting him is good sport for the local lads and the occasional lass (if adventurous and over the age of nineteen) every generation or so.



** With a little unconscious help from Granny, [[spoiler:Agnes also avoids being turned, though Vlad tried]].



--> '''Count''': "An axe isn't even a holy symbol!" \\
'''Oats''': "Oh... Then let's make it so."

to:

--> '''Count''': "An An axe isn't even a holy symbol!" \\
symbol!\\
'''Oats''': "Oh...Oh. Then let's make it so."



* SoulJar: The heart in a hidden jar variation is mentioned to be used by magicians in Howondaland so they can't be killed.

to:

* SoulJar: The heart in a hidden jar heart-in-a-hidden-jar variation is mentioned to be used by magicians in Howondaland so they can't be killed.



* TookALevelInBadass: With a little coaching from Granny, Mightily Oats goes from a wishy-washy priest wracked with doubt and inner turmoil to [[spoiler:chopping off the head of the evil Count Magpyr with a single axe blow.]]

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* TookALevelInBadass: With a little coaching from Granny, Mightily Oats goes from a wishy-washy priest wracked with doubt and inner turmoil to [[spoiler:chopping off the head of the evil Count Magpyr with a single axe blow.]]blow]].



---> '''Nanny:''' "It's Granny's thoughts that are shaping this place. But she wouldn't raise a hand to a child. Couldn't do it. Hasn't got it in her."

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---> '''Nanny:''' "It's It's Granny's thoughts that are shaping this place. But she wouldn't raise a hand to a child. Couldn't do it. Hasn't got it in her."
9th Feb '17 1:12:41 AM NanoMoose
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* ParanoiaFuel: For the Magpyrs, Granny's Borrowing trick goes from mildly amusing delaying tactic to this once [[spoiler: they start succumbing to her attack from within]] and they start turning on each other, arguing about where she might be.

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* ParanoiaFuel: ParanoiaGambit: For the Magpyrs, Granny's Borrowing trick goes from mildly amusing delaying tactic to this alarming once [[spoiler: they start succumbing to her attack from within]] and they start turning on each other, arguing about where she might be.
21st Jan '17 3:13:47 AM I_love_dragons
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** Subverted with the old Count, who allows himself to die so that no one ever tries to render him DeaderThanDead.

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** Subverted with Invoked by the old Count, who allows himself to die so that no one ever tries to render him DeaderThanDead.
15th Oct '16 6:50:18 PM DarkPhoenix94
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* ContractualGenreBlindness: Traditional vampires like the Old Count did this for entirely pragmatic reasons, and Igor does it too (though mostly just to aggravate the new Count, whom he finds insufferable). The Old Count did it so people wouldn't try to make sure he stayed dead, Igor does it as a matter of style (which is integral to being an Igor), which the vampyres eschew.

to:

* ContractualGenreBlindness: Traditional vampires like the Old Count did this for entirely pragmatic reasons, and because he was a FairPlayVillain, and Igor does it too (though mostly just to aggravate the new Count, whom he finds insufferable). The Old Count did it so people wouldn't try to make sure he stayed dead, Igor does it as a matter of style (which is integral to being an Igor), which the vampyres eschew.



*** Though this is more a case of Igor's personal GodzillaThreshold being crossed. A more classic example is him being confronted with the prospect of the Magpyrs using the mist trick to get through the vault door that Magrat and baby Esmerelda are behind, simply because it's so unsporting.



** The Old Count, due to his FairPlayVillain status, ends up as this. Yes, he's a monster who feeds on the living, but he never pretended to be anything else, nobody ever got ''too'' seriously hurt, and fighting him is good sport for the local lads and the occasional lass every generation or so.

to:

** The Old Count, due to his FairPlayVillain status, ends up as this. Yes, he's a monster who feeds on the living, but he never pretended to be anything else, he's a FriendlyEnemy who's free with the VillainRespect, nobody ever got ''too'' seriously hurt, and fighting him is good sport for the local lads and the occasional lass every generation or so.



** The vampyres are apparently less "dark" than traditional vampires. This is just a trap.
** During Granny's BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind, [[spoiler:the right answer is walking towards the darkness, because that's where the light should go]].

to:

** The vampyres are apparently less "dark" than traditional vampires. This is just a trap.Appearances deceive.
** During Granny's BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind, [[spoiler:the [[spoiler: the right answer is walking towards the darkness, because that's where the light should go]].



* ParanoiaFuel: For the Magpyrs, Granny's Borrowing trick goes from mildly amusing delaying tactic to this once [[spoiler: they start succumbing to her attack from within]] and they start turning on each other, arguing about where she might be.



'''Oats''': "Oh... let's make it so."

to:

'''Oats''': "Oh... Then let's make it so."



** Several aspects of the phoenixes seem to owe just a little bit to [[ComicBook/XMen Marvel's Phoenix Force]] - the habit of blending in with those around it by taking a form[=/=]host that allows it to do so until it needs to be a Phoenix, a distinct lack of tolerance for evil, sharing memories, [[spoiler: manifesting a house sized bird of flame around a small mortal form in battle]] and last but not least, in hanging out with Granny, a preference for powerful women.



* TooSpicyForYogSothoth: The vampires suck Granny Weatherwax's blood, and ''they're'' the ones who come off worse.
--> '''Granny''': "I ain't been vampired. You've been Weatherwaxed."

to:

* TooSpicyForYogSothoth: The vampires [[spoiler: suck Granny Weatherwax's blood, blood,]] and ''they're'' the ones who come off worse.
--> '''Granny''': "I [[spoiler: [[BadassBoast I ain't been vampired. You've been Weatherwaxed."]]]]



** Granny defeats the vampires by putting part of herself in the vampires but using Nanny to make them think she put herself elsewhere.

to:

** Granny [[spoiler: defeats the vampires by putting part of herself in the vampires but using her blood when Nanny to make made them think that she put herself elsewhere.]]
21st Aug '16 7:36:09 PM PaulA
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* EmbarrassingMiddleName:
** Princess Esmerelda Margaret Note Spelling of Lancre.
** Also mentioned: James What The Hell Is That Cow Doing In Here? Poorchick and King My God He's Heavy the First.


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* NamingCeremony: The one for Magrat and Verence's daughter is key to the plot. The ceremony can apparently be performed by whatever priest is handy, and there seems to be a rule that whatever the priest says after "I now name you..." is irrevocable -- which is how the girl in question ends up as Princess Esmerelda Margaret Note Spelling of Lancre. (Also mentioned: James What The Hell Is That Cow Doing In Here? Poorchick and King My God He's Heavy the First.)
26th Jul '16 4:12:14 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* GenreSavvy:
** The Magpyr vampires. They train themselves to overcome vampire weaknesses, and mock the old count for his Film/HammerHorror style GenreBlindness - easily-opened curtains, objects easily broken into holy symbols and stakes, copious holy water, etc.
** {{Subverted}} when it turns out the Old Count is far more GenreSavvy than his offspring. He deliberately allows humans to exploit his weaknesses so that, being an easily dispatched villain and giving the village boys something to feel good about, he is never KilledOffForReal.



* HeelRealization: [[spoiler: The Count outright asks the villagers of Escrow to look at him, and then at the newly-resurrected previous Count, believing that the comparison will convince them that he's the better of the two. But VillainousBreakdown ensues when he realizes that being DangerouslyGenreSavvy is considered far, ''far'' worse than the old Count's intentional use of the VillainBall. Vlad gets this too, presumably, since he genuinely believes that the alternative for Escrow that his father offers is better than what it used to be.]]

to:

* HeelRealization: [[spoiler: The Count outright asks the villagers of Escrow to look at him, and then at the newly-resurrected previous Count, believing that the comparison will convince them that he's the better of the two. But VillainousBreakdown ensues when he realizes that being DangerouslyGenreSavvy savvy is considered far, ''far'' worse than the old Count's intentional use of the VillainBall. Vlad gets this too, presumably, since he genuinely believes that the alternative for Escrow that his father offers is better than what it used to be.]]



** The vampyres are apparently less "dark" than traditional vampires. [[GenreSavvy This is just a trap]].

to:

** The vampyres are apparently less "dark" than traditional vampires. [[GenreSavvy This is just a trap]].trap.
28th Jun '16 7:05:55 PM NanoMoose
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** Granny mentions that Lancre once had a vampire queen, who denied her vampire nature, refusing to drink blood and only getting by on blue steaks. Subverted in that she was a horrific dictator who killed countless people and impaled them on spikes; it's just this had nothing to do with her being a vampire.

to:

** Granny mentions that Lancre once had a vampire queen, queen who denied her vampire nature, refusing to drink blood and only getting by on blue steaks. Subverted in that she was a horrific dictator who killed countless people and impaled them on spikes; it's ''was'' an iron-fisted dictator; it just this had nothing to do with her being a vampire.
23rd May '16 2:07:19 AM Morgenthaler
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* ImprovisedCross: Weaponized, where the vampires have built up an immunity to all the traditional vampire repellents including garlic and holy symbols (crosses are not mentioned, but there are so many religions on the Disc there's probably one or two). This backfires spectacularly when [[spoiler:Granny gets in their heads causes them to recognize the shapes of the symbols everywhere, paralyzing them]].
6th May '16 5:42:50 AM portraitinflesh42
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-->'''Countess:''' And we met such lovely people. Do you remember [[{{Dracula}} Mr and Mrs Harker?]]\\

to:

-->'''Countess:''' And we met such lovely people. Do you remember [[{{Dracula}} Mr and Mrs Harker?]]\\Harker]]?\\
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