History DethroningMoment / PokemonAnime

5th Aug '17 2:05:20 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.

to:

** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
desire.
** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion [[CluelessAesop then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
29th Jul '17 10:13:35 AM Dr.XXX
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** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. [[https://youtu.be/sI0Lo7OOpXA This video]] also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.

to:

** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. [[https://youtu.be/sI0Lo7OOpXA This video]] Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
16th Jun '17 10:17:54 AM ArgonianLorekeeper
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* SaiyanWarrior006: In the following episode to Ash's defeat in the Indigo League, everyone gets onto him and said if he trained Charizard better he would've won and told him not to make excuses for his loss. WHAT?! Gee, thanks a lot [[WithFriendsLikeThese Delia, Misty, Brock, and Professor Oak!]] You weren't the ones kidnapped and forced to waste time and energy getting back to the stadium and fight with a handicap so of course you would've won if that had happened to you instead. Honestly if I was Ash, the next time Team Rocket kidnapped one of them I would've said "Nice knowing ya" and went the other direction with the way they acted like jerks and treated him.

to:

* SaiyanWarrior006: In the following episode to Ash's defeat in the Indigo League, everyone gets onto him and said if he trained Charizard better he would've won and told him not to make excuses for his loss. WHAT?! What?! Gee, thanks a lot [[WithFriendsLikeThese Delia, Misty, Brock, and Professor Oak!]] You weren't the ones kidnapped and forced to waste time and energy getting back to the stadium and fight with a handicap so of course you would've won if that had happened to you instead. Honestly if I was Ash, the next time Team Rocket kidnapped one of them I would've said "Nice knowing ya" and went the other direction with the way they acted like jerks and treated him.
16th Jun '17 10:16:31 AM ArgonianLorekeeper
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With [[LongRunner over 900 episodes and 18 movies under its belt]], this show undeniably has moments that the cast, deep down, wishes some act of Arceus could make them forget.

to:

With [[LongRunner over 900 episodes and 18 19 movies under its belt]], this show undeniably has moments that the cast, deep down, wishes some act of Arceus could make them forget.
28th Apr '17 1:50:01 PM SenorCornholio
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* TheCallOutBSMan: When the TPCI English dub has Ash say the following in "A Rush of Ninja Wisdom": "Alright, Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" No kid in the world talks like this, not to mention it's completely out of character for Ash to say something like this.

to:

* TheCallOutBSMan: When the TPCI English dub has Ash say the following in "A Rush of Ninja Wisdom": "Alright, Froakie, "Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" No kid in the world talks like this, not to mention it's completely out of character for Ash to say something like this.
26th Apr '17 1:40:30 AM SenorCornholio
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** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, but because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.

to:

** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter.matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
26th Apr '17 1:20:57 AM SenorCornholio
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Added DiffLines:

** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, but because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
26th Apr '17 1:02:50 AM SenorCornholio
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* SenorCornholio: What, you thought the gym battles against Sabrina, Erika, and Team Rocket were a disappointment? Then allow me the (dis)honor of reintroducing you to the gym battle against Elesa. In the games, she's known for being not only a respectable character with quite the appealing design, but also for having quite the annoying team with moves like Volt Switch. In other words, she's quite the capable battler. Now let's see how the anime portrays her gym battle with Ash. The first red flag that this gym battle is going to be underwhelming is that she starts off with her [[SignatureMove signature mon]] Zebstrika, which is easily dispatched by Ash's trump card Palpitoad. Then Elesa's Emolga comes out and beats Palpitoad, and we see how bad this really gets; [[WhatAnIdiot Ash literally thought he could breeze through Elesa with just one Pokémon, and only brought Palpitoad!]] So he rushes out of the battlefield to get one more Pokémon, which happens to be Snivy. And Ash, being [[IdiotHero Ash]], forgot that Emolga's also part flying type, not to mention Attract only works on the opposite gender. Needless to say, Ash is now down 2-1, and Pikachu finally steps up to fight, beating the Emolga. At this point, Elesa sends out her last Pokémon...[[NotMakingThisUpDisclaimer a Tynamo]]. Not even evolved into an [[MightyGlacier Eelektross]] or even an Eelektrik, just...an unevolved Tynamo, whose only move is Tackle. I don't care if it was a powerful Tackle; Tackle is the most basic of moves, and it didn't even get its Gen VI power buff yet. It's such a huge disrespect, because Elesa is quite the fan favorite, and beating her in the games requires you to throw a monkey wrench into her own strategy. In the anime, Ash only nearly lost because he was even stupider than usual, and her team tried to look threatening while having one of the most underwhelming lineups in the anime's long history.
** Tropers/Samusforce: For me, it doesn't get any worse than Ash's fourth gym battle in this season. He goes into a fight with just one Pokemon, expecting to win with just ONE, and he loses and begs to hold off the rest of the fight to come back with a new one! Look, if you want a rookie, then just give us a brand new character with a brand new backstory. DON'T give us a character that we have stuck through with for years and make him pull off rookie moves and lose so easily to a gym leader. This wasn't funny, dramatic, or serious, it was just a reason to make Ash look bad and the viewers wondering why they haven't played the game instead.

to:

* SenorCornholio: What, you thought the gym battles against Sabrina, Erika, and Team Rocket were a disappointment? Then allow me the (dis)honor of reintroducing you to the gym battle against Elesa. In the games, she's known for being not only a respectable character with quite the appealing design, but also for having quite the annoying team with moves like Volt Switch. In other words, she's quite the capable battler. Now let's see how the anime portrays her gym battle with Ash. The first red flag that this gym battle is going to be underwhelming is that she starts off with her [[SignatureMove signature mon]] Zebstrika, which is easily dispatched by Ash's trump card Palpitoad. Then Elesa's Emolga comes out and beats Palpitoad, and we see how bad this really gets; [[WhatAnIdiot Ash literally thought he could breeze through Elesa with just one Pokémon, and only brought Palpitoad!]] So he rushes out of the battlefield to get one more Pokémon, which happens to be Snivy. And Ash, being [[IdiotHero Ash]], forgot that Emolga's also part flying type, not to mention Attract only works on the opposite gender. Needless to say, Ash is now down 2-1, and Pikachu finally steps up to fight, beating the Emolga. At this point, Elesa sends out her last Pokémon...[[NotMakingThisUpDisclaimer a Tynamo]]. Not even evolved into an [[MightyGlacier Eelektross]] or even an Eelektrik, just...an unevolved Tynamo, whose only move is Tackle. I don't care if it was a powerful Tackle; Tackle is the most basic of moves, and it didn't even get its Gen VI power buff yet. It's such a huge disrespect, because Elesa is quite the fan favorite, and beating her in the games requires you to throw a monkey wrench into her own strategy. In the anime, Ash only nearly lost because he was even stupider than usual, and her team tried to look threatening while having one of the most underwhelming lineups in the anime's long history.
**
Tropers/Samusforce: For me, it doesn't get any worse than Ash's fourth gym battle in this season. He goes into a fight with just one Pokemon, expecting to win with just ONE, and he loses and begs to hold off the rest of the fight to come back with a new one! Look, if you want a rookie, then just give us a brand new character with a brand new backstory. DON'T give us a character that we have stuck through with for years and make him pull off rookie moves and lose so easily to a gym leader. This wasn't funny, dramatic, or serious, it was just a reason to make Ash look bad and the viewers wondering why they haven't played the game instead.
12th Apr '17 1:12:32 PM Trialman
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Added DiffLines:

** Trialman: Okay, I'll be the first to admit that I do like Iris, but even then, her reaction to the Frillish incident did get under my skin. She yells at Ash about how blindly attacking a Frillish that has Cursed Body is an inherently stupid idea. It is a bad idea, but how would Ash know? Ash has spent the past 10 years in regions where Frillish is not native. Not to mention that in fact, the Cursed Body Ability was newly introduced for Gen 5, and the Frillish line was the only one that had it as a non-Hidden Ability. How could you expect Ash to know the details of the whole thing? Of course, the scene is also written to make Ash look like an idiot for attacking the Frillish, which also makes this a horrible moment for the writers. Iris' reaction also got under my skin, since this is around the time she was beginning to mellow out about Ash, but then they make her start yelling at him again, solely to make him look bad. I might enjoy Best Wishes myself, but a moment like this makes me understand the reputation as a DorkAge.
21st Mar '17 8:58:38 AM akaun6899
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* akaun6899: The episode "A Double Dilemma", which I recently watched for the first time, left a really bad taste in my mouth regarding its treatment of Ash. May and Max are recognized by the citizens of Petalburg as Norman's kids, so they get littered with fans. Ash tries to impress them by showing off his badges, but they dismiss him. Okay, fair enough, May and Max are related to a famous (?) Gym Leader, and Ash is just some kid. Next, two kids challenge Ash to a battle, saying that only those worthy of Norman can battle him. He defeats both of them, as well as tons of challengers coming off those kids. When the two lead citizens (a reporter and a shopowner) take note of this, they make May battle Ash. During this battle, whenever Ash's Taillow succeeds in attacking Torchic, the crowd boos him, and loudly at that.. You even see him wind up in pseudo-fetal position because of the crowd's bias. And then, when Team Rocket is exposed (they were posing as May and her family) and blasted off, the crowd falls in love with Pikachu, while still cruelly snubbing Ash. The reporter even calls him a pathetic novice. Well, Mr. Stuck-Up Reporter, who do you think trained that [[PrecisionFStrike goddamn]] Pikachu?! The pathetic novice, that's who! Remarkably, Ash takes it rather well ("At least they like one of us"), but that doesn't excuse how disgusting these characters-of-the-day are. I don't plan on watching this episode again anytime soon.

to:

* akaun6899: The episode "A Double Dilemma", which I recently watched for the first time, Dilemma" left a really bad taste in my mouth regarding its treatment of Ash. May and Max are recognized by the citizens of Petalburg as Norman's kids, so they get littered with fans. Ash tries to impress them by showing off his badges, but they dismiss him. Okay, fair enough, May and Max are related to a famous (?) Gym Leader, and Ash is just some kid. Next, two kids challenge Ash to a battle, saying that only those worthy of Norman can battle him. He defeats both of them, as well as tons of challengers coming off those kids. When the two lead citizens (a reporter and a shopowner) take note of this, they make May battle Ash. During this battle, whenever Ash's Taillow succeeds in attacking Torchic, the crowd boos him, and loudly at that.. You even see him wind up in pseudo-fetal position because of the crowd's bias. And then, when Team Rocket is exposed (they were posing as May and her family) family; somehow everyone believed that two obvious Pokémon are human children) and blasted off, the crowd falls in love with Pikachu, while still cruelly snubbing Ash. The reporter even calls him a pathetic novice. Well, Mr. Stuck-Up Reporter, who do you think trained that [[PrecisionFStrike goddamn]] Pikachu?! The pathetic novice, that's who! Remarkably, Ash takes it rather well ("At least they like one of us"), but that doesn't excuse how disgusting these characters-of-the-day are. I don't plan on watching this episode again anytime soon.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DethroningMoment.PokemonAnime