History DethroningMoment / PokemonAnime

21st Nov '17 12:56:12 PM HammerOfJustice
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* Tropers/CerotechOmega: Gary tried real hard to be king asshole during Kanto and bits of Johto. And yet, he can't compare to Paul's [[RageQuit ragequitting on Ash at the tag tournament!]] Good Arceus almighty, where to begin with that abominable act? If Paul's supposed to be a StopHavingFunGuy, why does he do something Smogon deems wrong (while I personally don't like metagame elitism, I have to cut them some slack aside from Tobias, who someone mentioned further down)?! The abuse of Chimchar goes to a whole 'nother level on top of that, and millions were watching, both in-person and via broadcast, meaning that everyone got a good glimpse of this debacle! And yet the writers treat the whole clusterfuck as a motherfucking [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment blam]] - Barry chimes in later about Paul's victory (Ash made the winning effort, dumbass!), and worse still, even Ash doesn't bring it up when he and Mister EasilyForgiven Asshole buddy up after their match at the Sinnoh Conference! Tobias, Cameron and Alain's wins are horrendous enough on their own, but this was the moment I felt the writing of the anime was taking a very sharp turn for the worse; I might have not quit at Cameron's clusterfuck victory had this not happened in the first place.

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* Tropers/CerotechOmega: Gary tried real hard to be king asshole during Kanto and bits of Johto. And yet, he can't compare to Paul's [[RageQuit ragequitting on Ash at the tag tournament!]] Good Arceus almighty, where to begin with that abominable act? If Paul's supposed to be a StopHavingFunGuy, why does he do something even Smogon deems wrong (while I personally don't like metagame elitism, I have to cut them some slack aside from Tobias, who someone mentioned further down)?! The abuse of Chimchar goes to a whole 'nother level on top of that, and millions were watching, both in-person and via broadcast, meaning that everyone got a good glimpse of this debacle! And yet the writers treat the whole clusterfuck as a motherfucking [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment blam]] - Barry chimes in later about Paul's victory (Ash made the winning effort, dumbass!), and worse still, even Ash doesn't bring it up when he and Mister EasilyForgiven Asshole buddy up after their match at the Sinnoh Conference! Tobias, Cameron and Alain's wins are horrendous enough on their own, but this was the moment I felt the writing of the anime was taking a very sharp turn for the worse; I might have not quit at Cameron's clusterfuck victory had this not happened in the first place.


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[[folder:Galactic Battles]]
*Tropers/HammerOfJustice: Paul himself is an absolute drain on the anime for this troper but the absolute pinnacle of this must be the two-part battle at Lake Acuity. Since it happens after Paul's abusive training methods are revealed, one would expect Ash to defeat him thanks to his bonds with his Pokemon, but no, the writers show that they have no intention of actually punishing Paul for his actions by letting him beat Ash 6-2. For the curious as to how this balances out, [[spoiler: it doesn't. The series ends with Paul suffering exactly two losses, once to a Frontier Brain (essentially an Elite Four member), and secondly to Ash at the League, but he still finishes top 8 which is supposed to be a huge accomplishment.]]
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15th Nov '17 2:24:03 PM Retloclive
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[[folder:The Series: Sun and Moon]]

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[[folder:The %%[[folder:The Series: Sun and Moon]]

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29th Aug '17 3:12:04 PM FalconPain
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* Tropers/FalconPain: The second episode of the XY season, "Lumiose City Pursuit", ends with Ash trying to pacify a Garchomp on top of Prism Tower (the Kalos equivalent of the Eiffel Tower). After he succeeds, disaster strikes as part of the tower crumbles and Pikachu is sent falling. Ash's immediate reaction is to jump off the tower after him. This part should be bad by itself, what with Ash's [[SenselessSacrifice complete lack of ability to save himself or even Pikachu after his jump]] (he doesn't even have another Pokémon on hand that can fly or use psychic moves or vine whips or anything else that could help), but knowing that he is HotBlooded and cares deeply for Pikachu means we can understand his kneejerk reaction. Disaster is averted when the two are caught by [[DeusExMachina an unexpectedly helpful Mega Blaziken]]. (And we'll set aside [[NotTheFallThatKillsYou the physical problems that could cause]], or the fact that Mega Blaziken could have caught Pikachu even without Ash's help.) No, the true issue is that, once everything is said and done, everyone else who saw the incident has nothing but positive opinions of his hasty actions that, in anything less than this idealistic universe, would have resulted in two fatalities instead of one. It's hard not to sympathize, but the show expects viewers to directly approve of it.

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* Tropers/FalconPain: The second episode of the XY season, "Lumiose City Pursuit", ends with Ash trying to pacify a Garchomp on top of Prism Tower (the Kalos equivalent of the Eiffel Tower). After he succeeds, disaster strikes as part of the tower crumbles and Pikachu is sent falling. Ash's immediate reaction is to jump off the tower after him. This part should be bad by itself, what with Ash's [[SenselessSacrifice complete lack of ability to save himself or even Pikachu after his jump]] (he doesn't even have another Pokémon on hand that can fly or use psychic moves or vine whips or anything else that could help), but knowing that he is HotBlooded and cares deeply for Pikachu means we can understand his kneejerk reaction. Disaster is averted when the two are caught by [[DeusExMachina an unexpectedly helpful Mega Blaziken]]. (And we'll set aside [[NotTheFallThatKillsYou the physical problems that could cause]], or the fact that Mega Blaziken could have caught Pikachu even without Ash's help.) No, the true issue is that, once everything is said and done, everyone else who saw the incident has nothing but positive opinions of his hasty actions that, in anything less than this idealistic universe, would have resulted in two fatalities instead of one. It's hard not to sympathize, but the show expects viewers to directly approve of it. It gets even worse when multiple characters have flashbacks to the scene whenever they think about how much Ash inspires them, and how later episodes often try to homage the sequence. It's not a stretch to say that the show considers this scene to be the moment that defines Ash as a protagonist from Kalos on... and if that's the case, it's really hard to stay interested in him.
5th Aug '17 2:05:20 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.

to:

** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
desire.
** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion [[CluelessAesop then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
29th Jul '17 10:13:35 AM Dr.XXX
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** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. [[https://youtu.be/sI0Lo7OOpXA This video]] also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.

to:

** Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as HoistByHisOwnPetard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ashís character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. Itís not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. [[https://youtu.be/sI0Lo7OOpXA This video]] Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. [[SarcasmMode Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it.]] Itís maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire. No sympathy shall be given to this lowly PuritySue anymore.
16th Jun '17 10:17:54 AM ArgonianLorekeeper
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* SaiyanWarrior006: In the following episode to Ash's defeat in the Indigo League, everyone gets onto him and said if he trained Charizard better he would've won and told him not to make excuses for his loss. WHAT?! Gee, thanks a lot [[WithFriendsLikeThese Delia, Misty, Brock, and Professor Oak!]] You weren't the ones kidnapped and forced to waste time and energy getting back to the stadium and fight with a handicap so of course you would've won if that had happened to you instead. Honestly if I was Ash, the next time Team Rocket kidnapped one of them I would've said "Nice knowing ya" and went the other direction with the way they acted like jerks and treated him.

to:

* SaiyanWarrior006: In the following episode to Ash's defeat in the Indigo League, everyone gets onto him and said if he trained Charizard better he would've won and told him not to make excuses for his loss. WHAT?! What?! Gee, thanks a lot [[WithFriendsLikeThese Delia, Misty, Brock, and Professor Oak!]] You weren't the ones kidnapped and forced to waste time and energy getting back to the stadium and fight with a handicap so of course you would've won if that had happened to you instead. Honestly if I was Ash, the next time Team Rocket kidnapped one of them I would've said "Nice knowing ya" and went the other direction with the way they acted like jerks and treated him.
16th Jun '17 10:16:31 AM ArgonianLorekeeper
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With [[LongRunner over 900 episodes and 18 movies under its belt]], this show undeniably has moments that the cast, deep down, wishes some act of Arceus could make them forget.

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With [[LongRunner over 900 episodes and 18 19 movies under its belt]], this show undeniably has moments that the cast, deep down, wishes some act of Arceus could make them forget.
28th Apr '17 1:50:01 PM SenorCornholio
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* TheCallOutBSMan: When the TPCI English dub has Ash say the following in "A Rush of Ninja Wisdom": "Alright, Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" No kid in the world talks like this, not to mention it's completely out of character for Ash to say something like this.

to:

* TheCallOutBSMan: When the TPCI English dub has Ash say the following in "A Rush of Ninja Wisdom": "Alright, Froakie, "Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" No kid in the world talks like this, not to mention it's completely out of character for Ash to say something like this.
26th Apr '17 1:40:30 AM SenorCornholio
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** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, but because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.

to:

** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, itself (which looking back on it, ''was'' rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter.matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, [[ArmorPiercingQuestion then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League]]? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like {{filler}} [[UpToEleven than the anime's actual filler]]. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
26th Apr '17 1:20:57 AM SenorCornholio
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Added DiffLines:

** [=SenorCornholio=]: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself, but because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash ''winning'' against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know it had some major sentimental value for Creator/RicaMatsumoto, [[TearJerker and Arceus bless her and Haro]], but in my opinion Greninja's departure would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it feels like the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the StatusQuoIsGod. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that they care so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. At least the ''Sun and Moon'' anime so far is making up for that debacle.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DethroningMoment.PokemonAnime