History DethroningMoment / Literature

23rd May '17 12:12:45 AM Midna
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* Tropers/KilgoreTrout faithfully bought and read just about every StarWars Expanded Universe novel published that was set after ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Did I read ''ComicBook/DarkEmpire''? Yes. ''[[JediAcademyTrilogy The Jedi Academy Trilogy?]]'' Indeed, I bought that. ''[[Literature/TheCallistaTrilogy Darksaber]]''? I didn't like it, but I still bought and read it. The only one I think I didn't read was ''Literature/TheCrystalStar'' and the ''Literature/YoungJediKnights'' series. I bought all those books, from mediocre to good to awesome to terrible, because no matter how much I disliked any of them nothing was enough to make me give up on the EU entirely. (''Darksaber'' was enough to make me give up on Anderson, though.) So what finally made me swear off the EU for the foreseeable future? ''Literature/LegacyOfTheForce''. One of my favourite characters, Jacen Solo, turns pure evil for the flimsiest of reasons and begins acting [[CharacterDerailment wildly out of character]]--and this wasn't just a single author getting him wrong, this was everybody. Then, he kills off another of my favourite characters, Mara Jade, which I felt was a MoralEventHorizon. You can blow up a Death Star, you can destroy Carida, but if you kill one of the EU's greatest characters how the hell are you supposed to atone for that even if you want to? Kyp Durron at least came to regret his actions and tried to atone for them. Jacen didn't. I stopped reading the books after the seventh one and read what happened next on Wookieepedia. Turns out that Jacen converted Tahiri into a Sith, so that she proceeded to become his [[TheDragon Dragon]] and does all sorts of horrible, evil shit. They kill off two of the biggest heroes in the story and top it off with a {{Retcon}}. They took Vergere, who made great points about how fucked up the Jedi philosophy was, and {{Retcon}}ed her into being a Sith because I guess Creator/GeorgeLucas got his panties in a knot over the idea of some moral ambiguity in his universe.

to:

* Tropers/KilgoreTrout Tropers/KilgoreTrout: I faithfully bought and read just about every StarWars Expanded Universe novel published that was set after ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Did I read ''ComicBook/DarkEmpire''? Yes. ''[[JediAcademyTrilogy The Jedi Academy Trilogy?]]'' Indeed, I bought that. ''[[Literature/TheCallistaTrilogy Darksaber]]''? I didn't like it, but I still bought and read it. The only one I think I didn't read was ''Literature/TheCrystalStar'' and the ''Literature/YoungJediKnights'' series. I bought all those books, from mediocre to good to awesome to terrible, because no matter how much I disliked any of them nothing was enough to make me give up on the EU entirely. (''Darksaber'' was enough to make me give up on Anderson, though.) So what finally made me swear off the EU for the foreseeable future? ''Literature/LegacyOfTheForce''. One of my favourite characters, Jacen Solo, turns pure evil for the flimsiest of reasons and begins acting [[CharacterDerailment wildly out of character]]--and this wasn't just a single author getting him wrong, this was everybody. Then, he kills off another of my favourite characters, Mara Jade, which I felt was a MoralEventHorizon. You can blow up a Death Star, you can destroy Carida, but if you kill one of the EU's greatest characters how the hell are you supposed to atone for that even if you want to? Kyp Durron at least came to regret his actions and tried to atone for them. Jacen didn't. I stopped reading the books after the seventh one and read what happened next on Wookieepedia. Turns out that Jacen converted Tahiri into a Sith, so that she proceeded to become his [[TheDragon Dragon]] and does all sorts of horrible, evil shit. They kill off two of the biggest heroes in the story and top it off with a {{Retcon}}. They took Vergere, who made great points about how fucked up the Jedi philosophy was, and {{Retcon}}ed her into being a Sith because I guess Creator/GeorgeLucas got his panties in a knot over the idea of some moral ambiguity in his universe.



* {{Tropers/esq263}}: Literature/LeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty. This portion of the book appears to have been put in solely to add some conflict to the story. It is completely lacking in verisimilitude, as this troper can't imagine anyone with any sense, who really knows and loves someone, jumping to such a conclusion with such flimsy evidence.

to:

* {{Tropers/esq263}}: Literature/LeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty. This portion of the book appears to have been put in solely to add some conflict to the story. It is completely lacking in verisimilitude, as this troper I can't imagine anyone with any sense, who really knows and loves someone, jumping to such a conclusion with such flimsy evidence.
16th May '17 7:33:50 PM Wildstar93
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Added DiffLines:

** Tropes/{{Wildstar93}}: To me, the bonus scene in ''Shattered Sky'', in Dovewing's point of view once more. Basically, Purdy dies from age-related heart problems, and the Clan mourns for him. That's pretty heartbreaking. But then Bumblestripe comes up and tells Dovewing right up that he wants to get with her, and she can have kits in the near future. This part reeks of three big reasons. First, I thought the whole Dovewing/Tigerheart/Bumblestripe relationship was put to rest in ''Bramblestar's Storm''? Why bring it back up? And second, they bring it back up at a time like this? During a funeral? And third, they try to keep Bumblestripe as this NiceGuy who's getting over the breakup, but having Bumblestripe say this during Purdy's funeral is far from InnocentlyInsensitive. The rest of ''A Vision Of Shadows'' is pretty good, but this bonus scene in an otherwise good book left a rather sour taste in my mouth.
16th Apr '17 4:34:37 AM esq263
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* {{Tropers/esq263}}: LiteratureLeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty. This portion of the book appears to have been put in solely to add some conflict to the story. It is lacking in verisimilitude, as this troper can't imagine anyone with any sense, who really knows and loves someone, jumping to such a conclusion with such flimsy evidence.

to:

* {{Tropers/esq263}}: LiteratureLeftBehind.Literature/LeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty. This portion of the book appears to have been put in solely to add some conflict to the story. It is completely lacking in verisimilitude, as this troper can't imagine anyone with any sense, who really knows and loves someone, jumping to such a conclusion with such flimsy evidence.
14th Apr '17 12:29:22 PM KrazyTVWatcher
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to:

* {{Tropers/KrazyTVWatcher}}: Don't get me wrong. ''Literature/DiaryOfAWimpyKid'' is my favorite book series, [[DethroningMomentOfSuck but there are some moments that even fans can't stomach.]] One moment from this book series that really bugged me in particular was from the second book ''Rodrick Rules''. On page 104, Greg told his readers about the time he told on his brother Rodrick for swearing at him, [[DisproportionateRetribution which ended with Greg getting a bar of soap to his mouth]]. Rodrick [[KarmaHoudini should've been punished as well]], [[BigBrotherBully because he knew better than to spout foul language in front of his little brother]].
8th Apr '17 3:53:25 PM nombretomado
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* Tropers/KilgoreTrout faithfully bought and read just about every StarWars Expanded Universe novel published that was set after ''ReturnOfTheJedi''. Did I read ''ComicBook/DarkEmpire''? Yes. ''[[JediAcademyTrilogy The Jedi Academy Trilogy?]]'' Indeed, I bought that. ''[[Literature/TheCallistaTrilogy Darksaber]]''? I didn't like it, but I still bought and read it. The only one I think I didn't read was ''Literature/TheCrystalStar'' and the ''Literature/YoungJediKnights'' series. I bought all those books, from mediocre to good to awesome to terrible, because no matter how much I disliked any of them nothing was enough to make me give up on the EU entirely. (''Darksaber'' was enough to make me give up on Anderson, though.) So what finally made me swear off the EU for the foreseeable future? ''Literature/LegacyOfTheForce''. One of my favourite characters, Jacen Solo, turns pure evil for the flimsiest of reasons and begins acting [[CharacterDerailment wildly out of character]]--and this wasn't just a single author getting him wrong, this was everybody. Then, he kills off another of my favourite characters, Mara Jade, which I felt was a MoralEventHorizon. You can blow up a Death Star, you can destroy Carida, but if you kill one of the EU's greatest characters how the hell are you supposed to atone for that even if you want to? Kyp Durron at least came to regret his actions and tried to atone for them. Jacen didn't. I stopped reading the books after the seventh one and read what happened next on Wookieepedia. Turns out that Jacen converted Tahiri into a Sith, so that she proceeded to become his [[TheDragon Dragon]] and does all sorts of horrible, evil shit. They kill off two of the biggest heroes in the story and top it off with a {{Retcon}}. They took Vergere, who made great points about how fucked up the Jedi philosophy was, and {{Retcon}}ed her into being a Sith because I guess Creator/GeorgeLucas got his panties in a knot over the idea of some moral ambiguity in his universe.

to:

* Tropers/KilgoreTrout faithfully bought and read just about every StarWars Expanded Universe novel published that was set after ''ReturnOfTheJedi''.''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Did I read ''ComicBook/DarkEmpire''? Yes. ''[[JediAcademyTrilogy The Jedi Academy Trilogy?]]'' Indeed, I bought that. ''[[Literature/TheCallistaTrilogy Darksaber]]''? I didn't like it, but I still bought and read it. The only one I think I didn't read was ''Literature/TheCrystalStar'' and the ''Literature/YoungJediKnights'' series. I bought all those books, from mediocre to good to awesome to terrible, because no matter how much I disliked any of them nothing was enough to make me give up on the EU entirely. (''Darksaber'' was enough to make me give up on Anderson, though.) So what finally made me swear off the EU for the foreseeable future? ''Literature/LegacyOfTheForce''. One of my favourite characters, Jacen Solo, turns pure evil for the flimsiest of reasons and begins acting [[CharacterDerailment wildly out of character]]--and this wasn't just a single author getting him wrong, this was everybody. Then, he kills off another of my favourite characters, Mara Jade, which I felt was a MoralEventHorizon. You can blow up a Death Star, you can destroy Carida, but if you kill one of the EU's greatest characters how the hell are you supposed to atone for that even if you want to? Kyp Durron at least came to regret his actions and tried to atone for them. Jacen didn't. I stopped reading the books after the seventh one and read what happened next on Wookieepedia. Turns out that Jacen converted Tahiri into a Sith, so that she proceeded to become his [[TheDragon Dragon]] and does all sorts of horrible, evil shit. They kill off two of the biggest heroes in the story and top it off with a {{Retcon}}. They took Vergere, who made great points about how fucked up the Jedi philosophy was, and {{Retcon}}ed her into being a Sith because I guess Creator/GeorgeLucas got his panties in a knot over the idea of some moral ambiguity in his universe.
3rd Apr '17 5:19:35 PM esq263
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* {{Tropers/esq263}}: LiteratureLeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty.

to:

* {{Tropers/esq263}}: LiteratureLeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty.
dirty. This portion of the book appears to have been put in solely to add some conflict to the story. It is lacking in verisimilitude, as this troper can't imagine anyone with any sense, who really knows and loves someone, jumping to such a conclusion with such flimsy evidence.
3rd Apr '17 5:07:31 PM esq263
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to:

* {{Tropers/esq263}}: LiteratureLeftBehind. One DMOS was in ''Kingdom Come'', when Kenny Bruce's entire family and girlfriend conclude that he has turned traitor and joined The Other Light. The problem: It was known beforehand that Kenny Bruce intended to infiltrate The Other Light to spy on them, and the person who revealed his so-called "defection" was a known liar and traitor. This would be like if your son, brother, or significant other was a cop and you knew he did undercover work; then a guy who conned you out of a sum of money approached you with a transcript of a web chat or text in which said cop is soliciting someone for drugs or child porn; and, despite your knowing the cop for years and being in a familial or romantic relationship with him, you immediately believe the con man and conclude that the cop really is dirty.
28th Feb '17 2:45:12 PM SorPepita
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* LegalAssassin: For the most part, I thought ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' by Cassandra Clare were just fluff books; not very intricate or well-written, but still fun enough that I could be entertained for a few hours. Even "City of Fallen Angels," which was just one big angst-fest with plot thrown in at the last minute, was still pretty okay in my view. But then came a certain moment "City of Lost Souls" and my patience with the series broke. Said moment? The main villain Jonathan (I refuse to call him Sebastian; that's not his name and you can't make me call him that, Clare) attempts to rape the protagonist Clary, who's also his sister. And pretty much right after that, the characters don't acknowledge what happened and none of them change based on that moment. A BigLippedAlligatorMoment is jarring enough, but when that moment is a rape scene it becomes infuriating. No writer should EVER just throw in rape or any other touchy subject into a narrative without addressing the issue somehow. But what really makes this moment a DMoS is Clare's response to readers' responses to the scene, where she 1) revealed that the scene was there to establish Jonathan as an irredeemable villain, 2) said trigger warnings were a form of censorship and shouldn't be used, and 3) called people who thought Clary should've reacted more to the attempted rape sexist because they were trying to impose a "right way" to react. My thoughts are 1) Jonathan was already planning to brainwash people and destroy the world, so that should be more than enough to establish him as irredeemable, 2) trigger warnings are there to warn about content one may not be able to handle, not to censor writing, and 3) while I agree there is no "right" way to react to rape, Clary didn't react to it at all. Even if you ignore how poorly handled the issue was, it's still bad writing to not have a character react to something that happened to them. It would be just as bad if a male character was tortured and didn't have any emotional response to it. What really irks me is that Clare essentially did what many other grim-dark series like ''Series/GameOfThrones'' and ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' have done - throw rape in for the sake of showing evil or darkness - and yet she gets praise for her supposedly "progressive" take on sexual violence.

to:

* LegalAssassin: For the most part, I thought ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' by Cassandra Clare were just fluff books; not very intricate or well-written, but still fun enough that I could be entertained for a few hours. Even "City of Fallen Angels," which was just one big angst-fest with plot thrown in at the last minute, was still pretty okay in my view. But then came a certain moment "City of Lost Souls" and my patience with the series broke. Said moment? The main villain Jonathan (I refuse to call him Sebastian; that's not his name and you can't make me call him that, Clare) attempts to rape the protagonist Clary, who's also his sister. And pretty much right after that, the characters don't acknowledge what happened and none of them change based on that moment. A BigLippedAlligatorMoment is jarring enough, but when that moment is a rape scene it becomes infuriating. No writer should EVER just throw in rape or any other touchy subject into a narrative without addressing the issue somehow. But what really makes this moment a DMoS [=DMoS=] is Clare's response to readers' responses to the scene, where she 1) revealed that the scene was there to establish Jonathan as an irredeemable villain, 2) said trigger warnings were a form of censorship and shouldn't be used, and 3) called people who thought Clary should've reacted more to the attempted rape sexist because they were trying to impose a "right way" to react. My thoughts are 1) Jonathan was already planning to brainwash people and destroy the world, so that should be more than enough to establish him as irredeemable, 2) trigger warnings are there to warn about content one may not be able to handle, not to censor writing, and 3) while I agree there is no "right" way to react to rape, Clary didn't react to it at all. Even if you ignore how poorly handled the issue was, it's still bad writing to not have a character react to something that happened to them. It would be just as bad if a male character was tortured and didn't have any emotional response to it. What really irks me is that Clare essentially did what many other grim-dark series like ''Series/GameOfThrones'' and ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' have done - throw rape in for the sake of showing evil or darkness - and yet she gets praise for her supposedly "progressive" take on sexual violence.
28th Feb '17 2:44:19 PM SorPepita
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* MewLettuceRush 2084: An Oral History Of The Great Warming was a book I happened to find on the Kindle store while [[TheLastPoliceman looking for another one]] that I read one day and found surprisingly good, if a bit overly pessimistic. However, there was one part that almost made me give up the book. Towards the end there was a chapter that read as a blatant Author Tract that pretty much [[GodwinsLaw compared American immigration policies to Nazi Germany]] and stated within the book in the 2030s and America First party identical to said Nazi Germany. Although I do agree that there needs to be an overhaulin immigration policy, and the American government isn't exactly the best with said issues, there are many problems with this belief. First of all, as racist as it has been at times, it has never been on the level of Hitler's Germany, so it is absurd to even remotely compare the two. Secondly, do you really think the United States would even allow that kind of party to even be elected? [[CriticalResearchFailure or allow a profiling program that required Mexicans to wear an identifying patch at all times?]] If that even came close to happening in real life I guarantee you they would be out of office very quickly. Finally, the overall tone of the book was essentially to [[MisplacedNationalism portray Americans or at least the government as Orwellian monsters who were the only people responsible for global warming.]] And it wasn't subtle in the least about this! Maybe it's because I am American myself, and, while I know Americans have fucked up a lot in the past and still have a lot of issues we are not complete monsters for Christ's sake! I managed to finish it and I have to say although it was generally not too bad it does make me reluctant to read it again, or anything else by the author.
* cricri3007: ''Literature/{{Revan}}''. I get that Drew Karpyshyn probably doesn't like what the sequel did to his character from the first game. I get that it's essentially a commercial for the then upcoming MMO. but, retconning the Exile as someone who just lost her connection to the Force and then got it back somehow is the biggest [=DMoS=] for this book. Why? Because, by retconning this, he makes the entire second game pointless as if it didn't happened (not helped by the fact that none of the Exile's companions get even a mention). All in all, it feels like he doesn't want to even acknowledge Kotor 2's existence, which piss me off to no end considering it was my first introduction to the Star Wars universe.
* WillBGood: ('''Note:''' I'm just moving this entry over from SoBadItsHorrible-- I have not read this book, but the Horrible page recommends putting individual books from otherwise well-regarded series on this page; if the original author of this wants to come and replace my name with theirs I'm fine with it.) ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'' series has ''Crossroads of Twilight,'' a {{Doorstopper}} without content which generally takes place at the same time as ''Winter's Heart'' (the previous book). Most of ''Crossroads'' consists of PurpleProse about food and clothing the book has 822 pages, but you could condense it into 100 and not miss anything. The BigBad in this book is grain weevils. The series has LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, but very few of them appear in what passes for the main plot; the book needs a 50-page prologue to explain what everybody's doing, and it doesn't help. Rand, the driving force of the series as a whole, only appears in the last few pages; he has the long-awaited confrontation with Loghain, but nothing comes of it. Every female character's identical, and they're all unlikable stuck-up bitches. The series had been heading this way for a while, but this is the nadir. But the later books are better, and you don't have to read this to understand them.

to:

* MewLettuceRush 2084: An Oral History Of The Great Warming was a book I happened to find on the Kindle store while [[TheLastPoliceman looking for another one]] that I read one day and found surprisingly good, if a bit overly pessimistic. However, there was one part that almost made me give up the book. Towards the end there was a chapter that read as a blatant Author Tract that pretty much [[GodwinsLaw compared American immigration policies to Nazi Germany]] and stated within the book in the 2030s and America First party identical to said Nazi Germany. Although I do agree that there needs to be an overhaulin immigration policy, and the American government isn't exactly the best with said issues, there are many problems with this belief. First of all, as racist as it has been at times, it has never been on the level of Hitler's Germany, so it is absurd to even remotely compare the two. Secondly, do you really think the United States would even allow that kind of party to even be elected? [[CriticalResearchFailure or Or allow a profiling program that required Mexicans to wear an identifying patch at all times?]] If that even came close to happening in real life I guarantee you they would be out of office very quickly. Finally, the overall tone of the book was essentially to [[MisplacedNationalism portray Americans or at least the government as Orwellian monsters who were the only people responsible for global warming.]] And it wasn't subtle in the least about this! Maybe it's because I am American myself, and, while I know Americans have fucked up a lot in the past and still have a lot of issues we are not complete monsters for Christ's sake! I managed to finish it and I have to say although it was generally not too bad it does make me reluctant to read it again, or anything else by the author.
* cricri3007: ''Literature/{{Revan}}''. I get that Drew Karpyshyn probably doesn't like what the sequel did to his character from the first game. I get that it's essentially a commercial for the then upcoming MMO. but, But, retconning the Exile as someone who just lost her connection to the Force and then got it back somehow is the biggest [=DMoS=] for this book. Why? Because, by retconning this, he makes the entire second game pointless as if it didn't happened happen (not helped by the fact that none of the Exile's companions get even a mention). All in all, it feels like he doesn't want to even acknowledge Kotor 2's existence, which piss pisses me off to no end considering it was my first introduction to the Star Wars universe.
* WillBGood: ('''Note:''' I'm just moving this entry over from SoBadItsHorrible-- I have not read this book, but the Horrible page recommends putting individual books from otherwise well-regarded series on this page; if the original author of this wants to come and replace my name with theirs I'm fine with it.) ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'' series has ''Crossroads of Twilight,'' a {{Doorstopper}} without content which generally takes place at the same time as ''Winter's Heart'' (the previous book). Most of ''Crossroads'' consists of PurpleProse about food and clothing the book has 822 pages, but you could condense it into 100 and not miss anything. The BigBad in this book is grain weevils. The series has LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, but very few of them appear in what passes for the main plot; the book needs a 50-page prologue to explain what everybody's doing, and it doesn't help. Rand, the driving force of the series as a whole, only appears in the last few pages; he has the long-awaited confrontation with Loghain, but nothing comes of it. Every female character's character is identical, and they're all unlikable stuck-up bitches. The series had been heading this way for a while, but this is the nadir. But the later books are better, and you don't have to read this to understand them.



* LegalAssassin: For the most part, I thought ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' by Cassandra Clare were just fluff books; not very intricate or well-written, but still fun enough that I could be entertained for a few hours. Even "City of Fallen Angels," which was just one big angst-fest with plot thrown in at the last minute, was still pretty okay in my view. But then came a certain moment "City of Lost Souls" and my patience with the series broke. Said moment? The main villain Jonathan (I refuse to call him Sebastian; that's not his name and you can't make me call him that, Clare) attempts to rape the protagonist Clary, who's also his sister. And pretty much right after that, the characters don't acknowledge what happen and none of them change based on that moment. A BigLippedAlligatorMoment is jarring enough, but when that moment is a rape scene it becomes infuriating. No writer should EVER just throw in rape or any other touchy subject into a narrative without addressing the issue somehow. But what really makes this moment a DMoS is Clare's response to readers' responses to the scene, where she 1) revealed that the scene was there to establish Jonathan as an irredeemable villain, 2) said trigger warnings were a form of censorship and shouldn't be used, and 3) called people who thought Clary should've reacted more to the attempted rape sexist because they were trying to impose a "right way" to react. My thoughts are 1) Jonathan was already planning to brainwash people and destroy the world, so that should be more than enough to establish him as irredeemable, 2) trigger warnings are there to warn about content one may not be able to handle, not to censor writing, and 3) while I agree there is no "right" way to react to rape, Clary didn't react to it at all. Even if you ignore how poorly handled the issue was, it's still bad writing to not have a character react to something that happened to them. It would be just as bad if a male character was tortured and didn't have any emotional response to it. What really irks me is that Clare essentially did what many other grim-dark series like ''Series/GameOfThrones'' and ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' have done - throw rape in for the sake of showing evil or darkness - and yet she gets praise for her supposedly "progressive" take on sexual violence.
* Tropers/MelancholyUtopia: As much as I love ''Literature/LordOfTheRings'' for its epic tale and classy story-telling, and am a big defender of Tolkien when somebody criticizes it, there's one moment even I don't like, and it's Gandalf's death and resurrection, for the same reasons I spited Pell's survival in ''Anime/OnePiece''. It was meant to be a HeroicSacrifice for the heroes, that he gave his life so they could survive the cave...only demeaning it by having him come back even stronger (specifically "Gandalf the White"). Just...what was the point? There was no reason for him to stay alive either, he's done his part in the quest of destroying the ring by providing guidance to Frodo. There's nothing more for him to do, he might as well stay dead. As much as I admire Tolkien for his years of planning the story and his old style of writing, this moment goes to show he is as prone to flaws as anyone else.

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* LegalAssassin: For the most part, I thought ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' by Cassandra Clare were just fluff books; not very intricate or well-written, but still fun enough that I could be entertained for a few hours. Even "City of Fallen Angels," which was just one big angst-fest with plot thrown in at the last minute, was still pretty okay in my view. But then came a certain moment "City of Lost Souls" and my patience with the series broke. Said moment? The main villain Jonathan (I refuse to call him Sebastian; that's not his name and you can't make me call him that, Clare) attempts to rape the protagonist Clary, who's also his sister. And pretty much right after that, the characters don't acknowledge what happen happened and none of them change based on that moment. A BigLippedAlligatorMoment is jarring enough, but when that moment is a rape scene it becomes infuriating. No writer should EVER just throw in rape or any other touchy subject into a narrative without addressing the issue somehow. But what really makes this moment a DMoS is Clare's response to readers' responses to the scene, where she 1) revealed that the scene was there to establish Jonathan as an irredeemable villain, 2) said trigger warnings were a form of censorship and shouldn't be used, and 3) called people who thought Clary should've reacted more to the attempted rape sexist because they were trying to impose a "right way" to react. My thoughts are 1) Jonathan was already planning to brainwash people and destroy the world, so that should be more than enough to establish him as irredeemable, 2) trigger warnings are there to warn about content one may not be able to handle, not to censor writing, and 3) while I agree there is no "right" way to react to rape, Clary didn't react to it at all. Even if you ignore how poorly handled the issue was, it's still bad writing to not have a character react to something that happened to them. It would be just as bad if a male character was tortured and didn't have any emotional response to it. What really irks me is that Clare essentially did what many other grim-dark series like ''Series/GameOfThrones'' and ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' have done - throw rape in for the sake of showing evil or darkness - and yet she gets praise for her supposedly "progressive" take on sexual violence.
* Tropers/MelancholyUtopia: As much as I love ''Literature/LordOfTheRings'' for its epic tale and classy story-telling, and am a big defender of Tolkien when somebody criticizes it, there's one moment even I don't like, and it's Gandalf's death and resurrection, for the same reasons I spited Pell's survival in ''Anime/OnePiece''. It was meant to be a HeroicSacrifice for the heroes, that he gave his life so they could survive the cave... only demeaning it by having him come back even stronger (specifically "Gandalf the White"). Just... what was the point? There was no reason for him to stay alive either, he's done his part in the quest of destroying the ring by providing guidance to Frodo. There's nothing more for him to do, he might as well stay dead. As much as I admire Tolkien for his years of planning the story and his old style of writing, this moment goes to show he is as prone to flaws as anyone else.
28th Feb '17 2:37:29 PM SorPepita
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* Tropers/Silverblade2: I read ''Literature/FiftyShadesOfGrey'' out of BileFascination but even then there was a moment that was so awful it wasn't even funny. Early on, Anna jokingly send an e-mail to Christian claiming she never want to see him again. How does he react? He break into her appartment and proceed to rape her. Anna only tells him that it was a joke after [[NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization enjoying being raped]]. Wow! This is so wrong and offensive.
** Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: There are a lot of moments in the ''50 Shades'' books, that could serve as a [=DMoS=]. The above is a great example at showing just how abusive their relationship is, despite Ana not having signed any kind of dom-sub contract. But I think there is a scene worse. Even if one slogs through the first two books and gets to the third, and makes it through majority of that book to get to this scene, it is still terrible. Now, Anastasia finds out she's pregnant - honest accident, her birth-control shot seems to have stopped working early. The horror comes when Anastasia has to tell Christian. Before she tells him, she repeatedly mentions how she knows he'll get angry. And boy, he gets angry!\\

to:

* Tropers/Silverblade2: I read ''Literature/FiftyShadesOfGrey'' out of BileFascination but even then there was a moment that was so awful it wasn't even funny. Early on, Anna jokingly send an e-mail to Christian claiming she never want to see him again. How does he react? He break breaks into her appartment and proceed proceeds to rape her. Anna only tells him that it was a joke after [[NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization enjoying being raped]]. Wow! This is so wrong and offensive.
** Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: There are a lot of moments in the ''50 Shades'' books, books that could serve as a [=DMoS=]. The above is a great example at showing just how abusive their relationship is, despite Ana not having signed any kind of dom-sub contract. But I think there is a scene worse. worse scene. Even if one slogs through the first two books and gets to the third, and makes it through the majority of that book to get to this scene, it is still terrible. Now, Anastasia finds out she's pregnant - honest accident, her birth-control shot seems to have stopped working early. The horror comes when Anastasia has to tell Christian. Before she tells him, she repeatedly mentions how she knows he'll get angry. And boy, he gets angry!\\



Aside from Christian then acting all sad and badly-put-upon because her being pregnant means she'll never, ever have sex with him again and will put the baby ahead of him, the scene does bring up a wonderful moment in the next chapter: Anastasia calling Christian out on his behavior upon hearing the news and how he ran away instead of acting mature, like he claims to be, and refusing to accept the responsibility he had in creating the child. A wonderful moment, unfortunately ruined, as Anastasia reverts to her demure ExtremeDoormat personality immediately after and never has that backbone again. That was a great scene, with potential of finally giving Anastasia some CharacterDevelopment and standing up to Christian, but ultimately ruined. It's like [=EJ=] James heard people complaining about Anastasia's lack of spine, then threw this in to appease the complainers, only to go back and blow them a metaphorical raspberry.
** Tropers/ThatsNumberwang: Like most women I had a copy of this book pressed into my hands at some point. Unlike most women however I actually have friends who are in the BDSM community. And nothing makes it more obvious that the author has never remotely experienced BDSM for herself is this concept of such a ridiculously detailed sub-dom contract. Here is a very important piece of advice for anyone reading this: If a man or woman wants you to sign a contract that basically makes you his/her slave forever; that person is NOT into BDSM. That person is a psychopath. The submissive in a healthy sub-dom relationship is the one WITH the power as he/she decides on the limits, the safe words and on how long such a relationship continues. The dominant is merely acting out a part. This is such a mirror image of Fifty Shades that it is absurd.

to:

Aside from Christian then acting all sad and badly-put-upon because her being pregnant means she'll never, ever have sex with him again and will put the baby ahead of him, the scene does bring up a wonderful moment in the next chapter: Anastasia calling Christian out on his behavior upon hearing the news and how he ran away instead of acting mature, like he claims to be, and refusing to accept the responsibility he had in creating the child. A wonderful moment, moment unfortunately ruined, as Anastasia reverts to her demure ExtremeDoormat personality immediately after and never has that backbone again. That was a great scene, with potential of finally giving Anastasia some CharacterDevelopment and standing up to Christian, but ultimately ruined. It's like [=EJ=] James heard people complaining about Anastasia's lack of spine, then threw this in to appease the complainers, only to go back and blow them a metaphorical raspberry.
** Tropers/ThatsNumberwang: Like most women I had a copy of this book pressed into my hands at some point. Unlike most women however I actually have friends who are in the BDSM community. And nothing makes it more obvious that the author has never remotely experienced BDSM for herself is that this concept of such a ridiculously detailed sub-dom contract. Here is a very important piece of advice for anyone reading this: If a man or woman wants you to sign a contract that basically makes you his/her slave forever; forever, that person is NOT into BDSM. That person is a psychopath. The submissive in a healthy sub-dom relationship is the one WITH the power as he/she decides on the limits, the safe words and on how long such a relationship continues. The dominant is merely acting out a part. This is such a mirror image of Fifty Shades that it is absurd.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DethroningMoment.Literature