History DethroningMoment / DoctorWho

4th Aug '17 2:18:39 AM LondonKdS
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** [=LondonKdS=]: Yes. This poisons the entire Tenth Doctor era for me, and outweighs even things like the Donna MindRape and all of Ten's reactions to his upcoming regeneration. I'm not convinced that Harriet deserved to be overthrown for doing something very similar to things that the Doctor has frequently done, especially not for killing a bunch of cold-blooded slavers who would go off and enslave some more people. But what makes it unforgivable is that the Doctor deliberately appeals to the sexism and class prejudice of Harriet's staff and the media against here, in a way that will make it more difficult for any future woman or non-public-school person to become PM, and which is extremely reminiscent of the way that the Blairites tried to shaft Mo Mowlam in real life, at a time when she was suffering from cancer. And all just so that Russell T Davies could make clear his opposition to a wartime strategic decision that Margaret Thatcher made over twenty years previously.
25th Jul '17 2:17:29 PM ClintEastwood
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* {{Stormchaser23}}: Now that series 10 is over, I have to put "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E8TheLieOfTheLand]]" on here. It has some interesting elements like the stuff with Bill's mother, and, of course, Missy, but it ultimately was a disappointing conclusion for me. I thought the Monks couldn't support a three part episode, and their gimmick of mind control wasn't explored effectively enough to be intimidating, especially since all four of our main protagonists seem completely unaffected. The episode never really shows why an earth ruled by the Monks would be so terrible, so their ultimate defeat feels somewhat hollow. Nor do we ever really come to understand why the Monks want the earth so badly, and what their plans are beyond conquest. And then, there's the worst part of all; the issue of the Doctor's fakeout regeneration. I think most fans came up with better about why and how this would happen in two minutes after the "next-time" trailer aired. [[spoiler: Bill shoots the Doctor when he tells her he's working with the Monks willingly, which already seems just a tad drastic. The Doctor starts regenerating. Then he just stops regenerating, and reveals the whole thing was a setup to see if Bill was already under mind control.]] This left me wondering WHY the Doctor would fake his own regeneration. There was never an onscreen moment where the Doctor told Bill he could regenerate and what it looked like, and faking regeneration was pointless anyway since the whole thing was a setup. He could have just as easily revealed his true intentions to Bill as soon as she pulled the trigger. But this also leaves me wondering HOW the Doctor faked his regeneration. When the Tenth Doctor started regenerating, he had to direct the energy into his severed hand to stop, and he lost an entire regeneration in the process. The whole scene just felt like a stupid, pointless tease, and the whole episode was a disappointing conclusion.

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* {{Stormchaser23}}: Now that series 10 is over, I have to put "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E8TheLieOfTheLand]]" "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E8TheLieOfTheLand The Lie of the Land]]" on here. It has some interesting elements like the stuff with Bill's mother, and, of course, Missy, but it ultimately was a disappointing conclusion for me. I thought the Monks couldn't support a three part episode, and their gimmick of mind control wasn't explored effectively enough to be intimidating, especially since all four of our main protagonists seem completely unaffected. The episode never really shows why an earth ruled by the Monks would be so terrible, so their ultimate defeat feels somewhat hollow. Nor do we ever really come to understand why the Monks want the earth so badly, and what their plans are beyond conquest. And then, there's the worst part of all; the issue of the Doctor's fakeout regeneration. I think most fans came up with better about why and how this would happen in two minutes after the "next-time" trailer aired. [[spoiler: Bill shoots the Doctor when he tells her he's working with the Monks willingly, which already seems just a tad drastic. The Doctor starts regenerating. Then he just stops regenerating, and reveals the whole thing was a setup to see if Bill was already under mind control.]] This left me wondering WHY the Doctor would fake his own regeneration. There was never an onscreen moment where the Doctor told Bill he could regenerate and what it looked like, and faking regeneration was pointless anyway since the whole thing was a setup. He could have just as easily revealed his true intentions to Bill as soon as she pulled the trigger. But this also leaves me wondering HOW the Doctor faked his regeneration. When the Tenth Doctor started regenerating, he had to direct the energy into his severed hand to stop, and he lost an entire regeneration in the process. The whole scene just felt like a stupid, pointless tease, and the whole episode was a disappointing conclusion.
19th Jul '17 12:48:43 PM Stormchaser23
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* {{Sinister_Sandwich}}: "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E4KnockKnock Knock Knock]]" is one of the worst episodes I've seen in a long time. It starts strongly, with Bill moving into a creepy house run by a creepy landlord with her student friends, and had great potential to be chilling. This all falls apart when the secret of the tower is revealed, resulting in one totally nonsensical plot twist after another. Why did the bugs turn the landlord's mother into a wood-nymph? Why doesn't she recognise her own son? When she does realise it's him, why does his plan fall apart? How do the bugs bring the students back to life after ''eating them alive?!'' Why does the Doctor not give a shit that a horde of alien woodlice, capable of devouring a very large house in minutes, are now loose in a major city? What did the bugs eat before they came to the house? Where did they come from? Literally none of this is explained; it's like the writers threw a load of ideas at the wall to see what stuck, and this mess is the result. In addition, the story is going for a heart-wrenching TragicMonster (which we've had three times in a row already in this series, can we have something nasty for a change please?) and it's just a sappy, saccharine 'everybody lives' ending, yet again. David Suchet's talents are wasted on this pathetic excuse for an episode. Doctor Who needs to do better if I am to make it through this season with my TV intact.

to:

* {{Sinister_Sandwich}}: "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E4KnockKnock Knock Knock]]" is one of the worst episodes I've seen in a long time. It starts strongly, with Bill moving into a creepy house run by a creepy landlord with her student friends, and had great potential to be chilling. This all falls apart when the secret of the tower is revealed, resulting in one totally nonsensical plot twist after another. Why did the bugs turn the landlord's mother into a wood-nymph? Why doesn't she recognise her own son? When she does realise it's him, why does his plan fall apart? How do the bugs bring the students back to life after ''eating them alive?!'' Why does the Doctor not give a shit that a horde of alien woodlice, capable of devouring a very large house in minutes, are now loose in a major city? What did the bugs eat before they came to the house? Where did they come from? Literally none of this is explained; it's like the writers threw a load of ideas at the wall to see what stuck, and this mess is the result. In addition, the story is going for a heart-wrenching TragicMonster (which we've had three times in a row already in this series, can we have something nasty for a change please?) and it's just a sappy, saccharine 'everybody lives' ending, yet again. David Suchet's talents are wasted on this pathetic excuse for an episode. Doctor Who needs to do better if I am to make it through this season with my TV intact.intact.
* {{Stormchaser23}}: Now that series 10 is over, I have to put "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E8TheLieOfTheLand]]" on here. It has some interesting elements like the stuff with Bill's mother, and, of course, Missy, but it ultimately was a disappointing conclusion for me. I thought the Monks couldn't support a three part episode, and their gimmick of mind control wasn't explored effectively enough to be intimidating, especially since all four of our main protagonists seem completely unaffected. The episode never really shows why an earth ruled by the Monks would be so terrible, so their ultimate defeat feels somewhat hollow. Nor do we ever really come to understand why the Monks want the earth so badly, and what their plans are beyond conquest. And then, there's the worst part of all; the issue of the Doctor's fakeout regeneration. I think most fans came up with better about why and how this would happen in two minutes after the "next-time" trailer aired. [[spoiler: Bill shoots the Doctor when he tells her he's working with the Monks willingly, which already seems just a tad drastic. The Doctor starts regenerating. Then he just stops regenerating, and reveals the whole thing was a setup to see if Bill was already under mind control.]] This left me wondering WHY the Doctor would fake his own regeneration. There was never an onscreen moment where the Doctor told Bill he could regenerate and what it looked like, and faking regeneration was pointless anyway since the whole thing was a setup. He could have just as easily revealed his true intentions to Bill as soon as she pulled the trigger. But this also leaves me wondering HOW the Doctor faked his regeneration. When the Tenth Doctor started regenerating, he had to direct the energy into his severed hand to stop, and he lost an entire regeneration in the process. The whole scene just felt like a stupid, pointless tease, and the whole episode was a disappointing conclusion.
19th Jul '17 12:23:27 PM Stormchaser23
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** @/{{Stormchaser23}}: Agreed completely, but I also have to bring up how much Rose pisses me off in this two parter. From her whiny, selfish "but you can't!" when her young, pretty Doctor is about to regenerate, to her unearned happy ending with the Meta-Crisis Doctor (a concept I also fundamentally disagree with as a blatant Deus-ex Machina that seems like it was made up on the fly). And then there's her kiss with the half-human Doctor. At least "Doomsday" left it the tiniest bit ambiguous as to what the Doctor was actually going to say to Rose when the hologram transmission was cut off, but the context of this scene in "The Stolen Earth" makes it impossible to doubt that the Doctor told Rose that he loved her. Why does Rose deserve this honor while other companions do not? Rose has time and time again proven herself to be shallow, self-absorbed, and stubborn, but time and time again, other characters ignore her obvious flaws. The Doctor especially treats her as the perfect companion, at the expense of poor Martha, who constantly gets compared unfavorably to Rose, and has to put up with the Doctor pining for Rose and ignoring her, despite Martha in many ways being a more humble and caring person.
18th Jul '17 4:39:25 PM ClintEastwood
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* @/{{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I sometimes tolerate New Series episodes that other fans have negative views on (specifically “Love and Monsters” and “Fear Her”, those two episodes that I don’t really find that bad). But if I can think of one episode that nearly stopped me from watching the New Series, it would be “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E8FathersDay Father's Day]]”. I know what the episode writer, Creator/PaulCornell (his written two-parter, “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E8HumanNature Human Nature]]” and “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E9TheFamilyOfBlood The Family of Blood]]”, were actually great), was trying to expand the rules of the space-time continuum (i.e. Reapers), but still, [[CanonDiscontinuity none of the established rules ever came back after that episode.]] What even pissed me the most was the [[JerkAss Ninth Doctor calling Rose a 'stupid ape' for saving her father from the accident,]] [[FreudianExcuse even though she did it because she wanted to get to know her father]]. I'm sorry, but as a victim of emotional abuse, that nearly made me lost my sympathy for the Ninth Doctor when [[spoiler: he regenerated]]!

to:

* @/{{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I sometimes tolerate New Series episodes that other fans have negative views on (specifically “Love and Monsters” and “Fear Her”, those two episodes that I don’t really find that bad). But if I can think of one episode that nearly stopped me from watching the New Series, it would be “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E8FathersDay Father's Day]]”. I know what the episode writer, Creator/PaulCornell (his written two-parter, “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E8HumanNature Human Nature]]” and “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E9TheFamilyOfBlood The Family of Blood]]”, were actually great), was trying to expand the rules of the space-time continuum (i.e. Reapers), but still, [[CanonDiscontinuity none of the established rules ever came back after that episode.]] What even pissed me the most was the [[JerkAss [[{{Jerkass}} Ninth Doctor calling Rose a 'stupid ape' for saving her father from the accident,]] [[FreudianExcuse even though she did it because she wanted to get to know her father]]. I'm sorry, but as a victim of emotional abuse, that nearly made me lost my sympathy for the Ninth Doctor when [[spoiler: he regenerated]]!
18th Jul '17 4:38:20 PM ClintEastwood
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* @/{{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I sometimes tolerate New Series episodes that other fans have negative views on (specifically “Love and Monsters” and “Fear Her”, those two episodes that I don’t really find that bad). But if I can think of one episode that nearly stopped me from watching the New Series, it would be “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E8FathersDay Father's Day]]”. I know what the episode writer, Paul Cornell (his written two-parter, “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E8HumanNature Human Nature]]” and “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E9TheFamilyOfBlood The Family of Blood]]”, were actually great), was trying to expand the rules of the space-time continuum (i.e. Reapers), but still, [[CanonDiscontinuity none of the established rules ever came back after that episode.]] What even pissed me the most was the [[JerkAss Ninth Doctor calling Rose a 'stupid ape' for saving her father from the accident,]] [[FreudianExcuse even though she did it because she wanted to get to know her father]]. I'm sorry, but as a victim of emotional abuse, that nearly made me lost my sympathy for the Ninth Doctor when [[spoiler: he regenerated]]!

to:

* @/{{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I sometimes tolerate New Series episodes that other fans have negative views on (specifically “Love and Monsters” and “Fear Her”, those two episodes that I don’t really find that bad). But if I can think of one episode that nearly stopped me from watching the New Series, it would be “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E8FathersDay Father's Day]]”. I know what the episode writer, Paul Cornell Creator/PaulCornell (his written two-parter, “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E8HumanNature Human Nature]]” and “[[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E9TheFamilyOfBlood The Family of Blood]]”, were actually great), was trying to expand the rules of the space-time continuum (i.e. Reapers), but still, [[CanonDiscontinuity none of the established rules ever came back after that episode.]] What even pissed me the most was the [[JerkAss Ninth Doctor calling Rose a 'stupid ape' for saving her father from the accident,]] [[FreudianExcuse even though she did it because she wanted to get to know her father]]. I'm sorry, but as a victim of emotional abuse, that nearly made me lost my sympathy for the Ninth Doctor when [[spoiler: he regenerated]]!
11th Jul '17 1:06:06 AM Statzkeen
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* @/{{Statzkeen}}: Yes, yes, yes this was awful. First of all, the Doctor's decision was idiotic. Second, the writers didn't seem to realize this. Third, the way it was done was completely unbelievable. Doctor or not, he doesn't have any powers that should make him able to turn a question about someone being tired into the whole country turning against said person.

to:

* ** @/{{Statzkeen}}: Yes, yes, yes this was awful. First of all, the Doctor's decision was idiotic. Second, the writers didn't seem to realize this. Third, the way it was done was completely unbelievable. Doctor or not, he doesn't have any powers that should make him able to turn a question about someone being tired into the whole country turning against said person.
11th Jul '17 1:05:51 AM Statzkeen
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* @/{{Statzkeen}}: Yes, yes, yes this was awful. First of all, the Doctor's decision was idiotic. Second, the writers didn't seem to realize this. Third, the way it was done was completely unbelievable. Doctor or not, he doesn't have any powers that should make him able to turn a question about someone being tired into the whole country turning against said person.
21st Jun '17 9:18:54 AM Sapphirea2
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** Sapphirea2: Beyond the Mary Sue treatment Clara and Me get in "Hell Bent", its treatment of the Twelfth Doctor is genuinely appalling when one considers what he's gone through -- a cruel betrayal by both Me and his own people (who all owe him their lives and those of their loved ones) inadvertently leading to the death of someone he loved, followed immediately by isolation and torture. The episode gives lip service to the monstrous behavior of the Time Lords while constantly condemning the Doctor's actions, blaming him for not just getting over Clara's death, but he didn't have a chance to properly process it ''because'' of the isolation and torture. Ohila, the General, Me, even Clara are browbeating a broken, ''mentally ill torture victim'' who didn't deserve any of this and needs '''help'''. Instead he ends up getting his memories of a wonderful, if ultimately toxic, relationship robbed from him, being dumped in the desert, and is forced to wander the Nevada desert in a daze before his TARDIS is returned to him. And while HE is forced to accept losing Clara to the grave and burning his bridges with his ungrateful people, Clara and Me -- who both told him he had to move on -- get to have all the fun they want with the former's "wiggle room". He deserved better.
20th Jun '17 3:49:32 AM AmuckCricetine
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* {{Sinister_Sandwich}}: "Knock Knock" is one of the worst episodes I've seen in a long time. It starts strongly, with Bill moving into a creepy house run by a creepy landlord with her student friends, and had great potential to be chilling. This all falls apart when the secret of the tower is revealed, resulting in one totally nonsensical plot twist after another. Why did the bugs turn the landlord's mother into a wood-nymph? Why doesn't she recognise her own son? When she does realise it's him, why does his plan fall apart? How do the bugs bring the students back to life after ''eating them alive?!'' Why does the Doctor not give a shit that a horde of alien woodlice, capable of devouring a very large house in minutes, are now loose in a major city? What did the bugs eat before they came to the house? Where did they come from? Literally none of this is explained; it's like the writers threw a load of ideas at the wall to see what stuck, and this mess is the result. In addition, the story is going for a heart-wrenching TragicMonster (which we've had three times in a row already in this series, can we have something nasty for a change please?) and it's just a sappy, saccharine 'everybody lives' ending, yet again. David Suchet's talents are wasted on this pathetic excuse for an episode. Doctor Who needs to do better if I am to make it through this season with my TV intact.

to:

* {{Sinister_Sandwich}}: "Knock Knock" "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS36E4KnockKnock Knock Knock]]" is one of the worst episodes I've seen in a long time. It starts strongly, with Bill moving into a creepy house run by a creepy landlord with her student friends, and had great potential to be chilling. This all falls apart when the secret of the tower is revealed, resulting in one totally nonsensical plot twist after another. Why did the bugs turn the landlord's mother into a wood-nymph? Why doesn't she recognise her own son? When she does realise it's him, why does his plan fall apart? How do the bugs bring the students back to life after ''eating them alive?!'' Why does the Doctor not give a shit that a horde of alien woodlice, capable of devouring a very large house in minutes, are now loose in a major city? What did the bugs eat before they came to the house? Where did they come from? Literally none of this is explained; it's like the writers threw a load of ideas at the wall to see what stuck, and this mess is the result. In addition, the story is going for a heart-wrenching TragicMonster (which we've had three times in a row already in this series, can we have something nasty for a change please?) and it's just a sappy, saccharine 'everybody lives' ending, yet again. David Suchet's talents are wasted on this pathetic excuse for an episode. Doctor Who needs to do better if I am to make it through this season with my TV intact.
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