History DeconstructedCharacterArchetype / BojackHorseman

18th Jun '18 8:53:50 PM DougDevilsMutt
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* CrusadingWidower: [[spoiler:Eddie the dragonfly has spent years living his life way after the death of his wife Loretta. However, Eddie is clearly not living out his life to the limit, having become a recluse after Loretta's passing as a sort of penance for having, y'know, caused her accidental death. In a way, he's become way too emotionally repressed and suicidal to ever make any kind of recovery on his own and as such, he's determined to live the rest of his days with mementos of his wife, waiting for his death.]]
18th Jun '18 8:37:00 PM DougDevilsMutt
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* PluckyOfficeGirl: Being optimistic in a cynical business is a fool's errand.
** Mia [=McKibben=] has every trait of an Creator/AaronSorkin female protagonist: competent, assertive, professional and willing to put a façade of good team worker. Except, because of her need to stay on top in a man's world and dislike for unprofessionality, she's also an A-grade {{Jerkass}} CompetitionFreak with no qualms about her [[InsufferableGenius insufferable ego]].
** Stefani Stilton's competence, bubbly attitude and almost diabetes-inducing tone has little to do with her real attitude which she often uses to her advantage to go for the hottest scoop. Not a cartoonish villain by any chance, just a cheerful individual whose job efficiency is made possible by a humble, pragmatic knowledge of her cynical soul.
18th Jun '18 8:27:03 PM DougDevilsMutt
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* TheSociopath: Joseph Sugarman's LackOfEmpathy, {{narcissist}}ic tendencies and complete obliviousness to his family's suffering and well-being [[spoiler:lead him to lobotomize his wife in an attempt to keep her mood-swings in check, mercilessly taught his daughter Beatrice the way of "woman attitude" without empathizing with her. In short, besides being the main culprit of this BigScrewedUpFamily, his actions led to the bankruptcy of [[FamilyBusiness Sugarman Sugar]] and a whole generation worth of abuse.]]
16th May '18 9:51:19 AM WaterBlap
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** Beatrice (nee Sugarman) and Butterscotch Horseman abused [=BoJack=] throughout most of his life. However, both are shown to have had harsh lives. [[IceQueen Beatrice]], for example, had a SurprisePregnancy and is a bitter ImpoverishedPatrician. [[HopeCrusher
Butterscotch]], on the other hand, is a JadedWashout who had suddenly learned that he was a father. Their bitterness for their situation -- that is, being unhappily married with a kid -- is channeled at each other at first, but [=BoJack=] inevitably becomes the target of their bitter hatred of one another.

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** Beatrice (nee Sugarman) and Butterscotch Horseman abused [=BoJack=] throughout most of his life. However, both are shown to have had harsh lives. [[IceQueen Beatrice]], for example, had a SurprisePregnancy and is a bitter ImpoverishedPatrician. [[HopeCrusher
[[HopeCrusher Butterscotch]], on the other hand, is a JadedWashout who had suddenly learned that he was a father. Their bitterness for their situation -- that is, being unhappily married with a kid -- is channeled at each other at first, but [=BoJack=] inevitably becomes the target of their bitter hatred of one another.
16th May '18 9:51:03 AM WaterBlap
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** [[IceQueen Beatrice]] and [[HopeCrusher Butterscotch Horseman]], while both being pathetic excuses for parents to [=BoJack=], are often hinted at having had a harsh life in the form of a SurprisePregnancy and ImpoverishedPatrician status for Beatrice, being a bitter JadedWashout for Butterscotch and a ShotgunWedding and UnequalPairing [[ParentsAsPeople for both of them]]. [[UnfitForgreatness Instead of stepping up to the plate]] of parenthood, their flaws, entitlement and bitterness at their situation ends up channeled towards their innocent son, dooming him to [[GenerationXerox become exactly like them]] and continue TheChainOfHarm.
** [[AsianRudeness Ma and Pa Nguyen's]] sole focus of abuse was their only daughter, Diane, while they spoiled and gave leeway to the rest of her siblings, thus creating in their mind the idea of abusing her was the norm for how to treat their sister. All of that coddling made the sons completely dependent on their parents for everything, while getting no attention made Diane self-reliant (and also giving her an inferiority complex and desperate need for acceptance). Even to this day, after Diane has moved on to better things, the idea of abuse as bonding remains at large in the Nguyen household, encouraged by the parents, and her mom especially, who resents her self-sufficiency.

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** [[IceQueen Beatrice]] Beatrice (nee Sugarman) and [[HopeCrusher Butterscotch Horseman]], while Horseman abused [=BoJack=] throughout most of his life. However, both being pathetic excuses for parents to [=BoJack=], are often hinted at having shown to have had a harsh life in the form of lives. [[IceQueen Beatrice]], for example, had a SurprisePregnancy and ImpoverishedPatrician status for Beatrice, being is a bitter ImpoverishedPatrician. [[HopeCrusher
Butterscotch]], on the other hand, is a
JadedWashout for Butterscotch and who had suddenly learned that he was a ShotgunWedding and UnequalPairing [[ParentsAsPeople for both of them]]. [[UnfitForgreatness Instead of stepping up to the plate]] of parenthood, their flaws, entitlement and father. Their bitterness at for their situation ends up -- that is, being unhappily married with a kid -- is channeled towards at each other at first, but [=BoJack=] inevitably becomes the target of their innocent son, dooming him to [[GenerationXerox become exactly like them]] and continue TheChainOfHarm.
bitter hatred of one another.
** [[AsianRudeness Ma and Pa Nguyen's]] sole focus of abuse was Nguyen]] are happily married with several children, but they abused their only daughter, Diane, while they spoiled and gave leeway to the rest of her siblings, thus creating in spoiling their mind the idea of abusing her was the norm sons. By being coddled for how to treat most of their sister. All of that coddling made lives, the sons completely dependent on became immature men who refuse to leave their parents for everything, while getting no attention made parents' house. Diane grew into an insightful, self-reliant (and also giving her woman, though she suffers from an inferiority complex and desperate need for acceptance). Even to this day, after acceptance. Upon returning home for a visit, Diane has moved on to better things, the idea of abuse as bonding learns that her family remains at large in the Nguyen household, encouraged by the parents, abusive towards her and that her mom especially, who mother actually resents her self-sufficiency.for being self-reliant.
23rd Mar '18 1:49:03 PM ironballs16
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** Sebastian St. Claire is a philanthropist whos dedicated to restore the ravaged country of Cordovia through riches, hard work and sheer will. His actions have contributed to the restoration of a semblance of normal life for the citizens. Hes also a narcissist with a lack of regard or conscience whos charity work is dedicated to building a cred around his status and dissassociation with the true needs of Cordovians lends an air of condescendence to the whole affair. Still, his work is genuinely working even if its not giving emotional support and his detachment helps him be more effective in dealing with the horror of bombings. The real reason behind most of his actions is not morality of any kind, but pure white guilt rooted in his rich lifestyle and the constant screams of dying children in his head every night which he seeks to drown.

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** Sebastian St. Claire is a philanthropist whos dedicated to restore the ravaged country of Cordovia through riches, hard work and sheer will. His actions have contributed to the restoration of a semblance of normal life for the citizens. Hes also a narcissist with a lack of regard or conscience whos charity work is dedicated to building a cred around his status and dissassociation with the true needs of Cordovians lends an air of condescendence to the whole affair. Still, his work is genuinely working even if its not giving emotional support and his detachment helps him be more effective in dealing with the horror of bombings. The real reason behind most of his actions is not morality of any kind, [[WhiteMansBurden but pure white guilt rooted in his rich lifestyle lifestyle]] and the constant screams of dying children in his head every night which he seeks to drown.
4th Jan '18 9:11:56 PM JJHIL325
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-->''The stupid thing is, even now I still just want them to be proud of me and think I did good. [[DeconstructedTrope Is that really stupid?]]''

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-->''The -->'''Diane''': The stupid thing is, even now I still just want them to be proud of me and think I did good. [[DeconstructedTrope Is that really stupid?]]''stupid?]]\\
'''Bojack''': [[BluntYes Yep]].\\
'''Diane''': No it isn't.\\
'''Bojack''': Yeah, it is! [[ArmorPiercingQuestion You want]] ''[[{{Jerkass}} those guys]]'' [[ArmorPiercingQuestion to be proud of you?]]
15th Dec '17 1:05:43 AM creader
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** A pretty complex take in the case of [=BoJack=]'s relationship with Princess Carolyn. They start the series as a (dysfunctional) couple who's always [[OnAgainOffAgainBoyfriend having ups and downs]]. This goes on for a while until [[TheConfidant Diane]] comes along. As they both work their issues separately, they both come to the realization that their intimate relationship is toxic and should only deal with each other in a professional level. While capable of being amiable to each other on a limited basis, their relationship is still far from perfect: Bojack gets mad at the level of effort Princess Carolyn puts into work and she loathes his neediness. It's not that they outright hate each other, they just know each other too well to make a good chemistry.

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** A pretty complex take in the case of [=BoJack=]'s relationship with Princess Carolyn. They start the series as a (dysfunctional) couple who's always [[OnAgainOffAgainBoyfriend having ups and downs]]. This goes on for a while until [[TheConfidant Diane]] comes along. As they both work their issues separately, they both come to the realization that their intimate relationship is toxic and should only deal with each other in a professional level. While capable of being amiable to each other on a limited basis, their relationship is still far from perfect: Bojack [=BoJack=] gets mad at the level of effort Princess Carolyn puts into work and she loathes his neediness. It's not that they outright hate each other, they just know each other too well to make a good chemistry.



* BastardBoyfriend: Bojack acts and behaves this way towards [[LoveMartyr Princess Carolyn]] at the beginning of the series. However, it's not because he hates her, or because he's intentionally being cruel; more because he's too LoveHungry and selfish to truly focus on a serious relationship with her. The fact that his mood can often make her the target of his ire by venting his frustrations or obsessive love and clinging doesn't help at all. In a way, the relationship is an example of what happens when an [[{{Narcissist}} arrogant]], yet [[BrokenBird insecure]] [[InferioritySuperiorityComplex individual]] [[LivingEmotionalCrutch hangs up]] to a much more well stable partner [[SexForSolace for solace]].

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* BastardBoyfriend: Bojack [=BoJack=] acts and behaves this way towards [[LoveMartyr Princess Carolyn]] at the beginning of the series. However, it's not because he hates her, or because he's intentionally being cruel; more because he's too LoveHungry and selfish to truly focus on a serious relationship with her. The fact that his mood can often make her the target of his ire by venting his frustrations or obsessive love and clinging doesn't help at all. In a way, the relationship is an example of what happens when an [[{{Narcissist}} arrogant]], yet [[BrokenBird insecure]] [[InferioritySuperiorityComplex individual]] [[LivingEmotionalCrutch hangs up]] to a much more well stable partner [[SexForSolace for solace]].



* ButtMonkey: "[[PhraseCatcher Shut up, Todd!]]", indeed. Todd's status as one of the AcceptableTargets of the show is usually PlayedForLaughs, but heaps and heaps of mockery (mostly from [[VitriolicBestBuds Bojack]]) have caused him to have a pretty low vision of himself, a desire to be part of something important and an ExtremeDoormat, to boot.

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* ButtMonkey: "[[PhraseCatcher Shut up, Todd!]]", indeed. Todd's status as one of the AcceptableTargets of the show is usually PlayedForLaughs, but heaps and heaps of mockery (mostly from [[VitriolicBestBuds Bojack]]) [=BoJack=]]]) have caused him to have a pretty low vision of himself, a desire to be part of something important and an ExtremeDoormat, to boot.



* ByronicHero: Bojack is self-centered, introspective, troubled, reflexive, impulsive with a DarkAndTroubledPast, TroubledButCute status and ReclusiveArtist shades. Instead of coming off as charming, mysterious and tragic, his demeanor gives the impression of him being arrogant, vain, pathetic and abrasive with no one being interested on digging deeper, and when they do, his issues prove to be too much to handle.

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* ByronicHero: Bojack [=BoJack=] is self-centered, introspective, troubled, reflexive, impulsive with a DarkAndTroubledPast, TroubledButCute status and ReclusiveArtist shades. Instead of coming off as charming, mysterious and tragic, his demeanor gives the impression of him being arrogant, vain, pathetic and abrasive with no one being interested on digging deeper, and when they do, his issues prove to be too much to handle.



* DirtyOldMan: Bojack has a tendency to sleep with women who are half his age, but in "Escape from LA", [[spoiler: he comes really close to sleeping with Charlotte's seventeen-year-old daughter Penny. Despite 17 being the legal age of consent in New Mexico and Penny making the first move, Charlotte still threatens to kill Bojack if he ever comes near her again, and she most likely thinks that Bojack is a child molester. "That's Too Much, Man!" also reveals that the whole event tramatized Penny and she seems to know that it wasn't the right choice, and is shocked when he finds out where she goes to college]].

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* DirtyOldMan: Bojack [=BoJack=] has a tendency to sleep with women who are half his age, but in "Escape from LA", [[spoiler: he comes really close to sleeping with Charlotte's seventeen-year-old daughter Penny. Despite 17 being the legal age of consent in New Mexico and Penny making the first move, Charlotte still threatens to kill Bojack [=BoJack=] if he ever comes near her again, and she most likely thinks that Bojack [=BoJack=] is a child molester. "That's Too Much, Man!" also reveals that the whole event tramatized traumatized Penny and she seems to know that it wasn't the right choice, and is shocked when he finds out where she goes to college]].



** [[HeroicSelfDeprecation Bojack]] was molded by his mother Beatrice to be a successful star to make up for trapping her in a loveless marriage. Oscillating between feelings of love and hate for her, Bojack would go to great lengths to impress her even after gaining independence and entering show business, inviting her to the first ''JustforFun/HorsinAround'' taping regardless of his prism of experience. Even after that, Bojack has often searched for the kind of love missing in his life, which is the root of his crippling narcissism.

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** [[HeroicSelfDeprecation Bojack]] [=BoJack=]]] was molded by his mother Beatrice to be a successful star to make up for trapping her in a loveless marriage. Oscillating between feelings of love and hate for her, Bojack [=BoJack=] would go to great lengths to impress her even after gaining independence and entering show business, inviting her to the first ''JustforFun/HorsinAround'' taping regardless of his prism of experience. Even after that, Bojack [=BoJack=] has often searched for the kind of love missing in his life, which is the root of his crippling narcissism.



* EvilFormerFriend: [[spoiler: Bojack's technically this towards Herb, since his word could have stopped the executives from firing Herb, yet he kept mum about it. Thing is, not only was Bojack actually reluctant about doing it, since Herb was his mentor and best friend, but the scandal was kind of Herb's fault for not being careful and Herb had tried to coerce Bojack into supporting him, which could have gone either way and gotten ''both of them fired''. However, Bojack still made no effort to get in touch with Herb or cared about anything he did for 20 years, when Herb he was left out cold without the OnlyFriend that could have supported him.]] Bojack was also forced to make a FriendOrIdolDecision [[spoiler: by the executives ''and'' by Herb, as the latter explicitly asked for Bojack to threaten to walk if Herb was fired. Given that Bojack picked "Idol", he had every reason to think Herb wouldn't want to see him again]].

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* EvilFormerFriend: [[spoiler: Bojack's [=BoJack=]'s technically this towards Herb, since his word could have stopped the executives from firing Herb, yet he kept mum about it. Thing is, not only was Bojack [=BoJack=] actually reluctant about doing it, since Herb was his mentor and best friend, but the scandal was kind of Herb's fault for not being careful and Herb had tried to coerce Bojack [=BoJack=] into supporting him, which could have gone either way and gotten ''both of them fired''. However, Bojack [=BoJack=] still made no effort to get in touch with Herb or cared about anything he did for 20 years, when Herb he was left out cold without the OnlyFriend that could have supported him.]] Bojack [=BoJack=] was also forced to make a FriendOrIdolDecision [[spoiler: by the executives ''and'' by Herb, as the latter explicitly asked for Bojack [=BoJack=] to threaten to walk if Herb was fired. Given that Bojack [=BoJack=] picked "Idol", he had every reason to think Herb wouldn't want to see him again]].



** Bojack didn't have an easy life growing up and it played a part in him becoming the person he is, but that doesn't earn him an EasilyForgiven card. He is still responsible for his own actions and Bojack's mistakes have damaged and alienated the very few friends he has.
** Bojack's mother Beatrice Horseman treats Bojack like crap, talking him down and insulting him with every conversation she has with him, trying to intentionally crush his dreams as an emotionally abusive parent. Flashbacks in Season Four show that she was raised by [[DeliberateValuesDissonance an extremely sexist father]] [[spoiler:who not only gave her mother a lobotomy when she "couldn't keep her womanly emotions in check," but was completely unsympathetic when he burned Beatrice's toys due to her Scarlet Fever, even obliquely threatening the crying Beatrice with a lobotomy of her own if she didn't reign it in]]. That being said, Beatrice is never portrayed as having been justified in her horrid treatment of Bojack and is still held accountable for her actions. Her son is also unable to forgive his mother for the way she treated him, even if he understands TheChainOfHarm that led them to where they are now and is willing to provide some comfort for the sake of burying the hatchet.

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** Bojack [=BoJack=] didn't have an easy life growing up and it played a part in him becoming the person he is, but that doesn't earn him an EasilyForgiven card. He is still responsible for his own actions and Bojack's [=BoJack=]'s mistakes have damaged and alienated the very few friends he has.
** Bojack's [=BoJack=]'s mother Beatrice Horseman treats Bojack [=BoJack=] like crap, talking him down and insulting him with every conversation she has with him, trying to intentionally crush his dreams as an emotionally abusive parent. Flashbacks in Season Four show that she was raised by [[DeliberateValuesDissonance an extremely sexist father]] [[spoiler:who not only gave her mother a lobotomy when she "couldn't keep her womanly emotions in check," but was completely unsympathetic when he burned Beatrice's toys due to her Scarlet Fever, even obliquely threatening the crying Beatrice with a lobotomy of her own if she didn't reign it in]]. That being said, Beatrice is never portrayed as having been justified in her horrid treatment of Bojack [=BoJack=] and is still held accountable for her actions. Her son is also unable to forgive his mother for the way she treated him, even if he understands TheChainOfHarm that led them to where they are now and is willing to provide some comfort for the sake of burying the hatchet.



* UnsympatheticComedyProtagonist: Bojack's a jerk and an abrasive individual, and ''that's exactly how people see him''. Thing is, [[JerkassRealization he's not happy at what he does or how he behaves]] and is [[WhatHaveIBecome often resentful of the actions he has taken to reach the place he is in]], often turning that hate onto others... Causing the very actions he himself hates. Also, unlike a simple HandWave of his behavior, his arc shows in detail the kind of emotional [[UsedToBeASweetKid damage]] [[JadeColouredGlasses a person]] [[LonelyAtTheTop would]] [[IJustWantToBeLoved have to]] [[LoveHungry endure]] [[FreudianExcuse to behave the way]] [[TragicHero he does]] and how that ''still'' won't excuse any of his behavior to the people in his life, his friends especially.

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* UnsympatheticComedyProtagonist: Bojack's [=BoJack=]'s a jerk and an abrasive individual, and ''that's exactly how people see him''. Thing is, [[JerkassRealization he's not happy at what he does or how he behaves]] and is [[WhatHaveIBecome often resentful of the actions he has taken to reach the place he is in]], often turning that hate onto others... Causing the very actions he himself hates. Also, unlike a simple HandWave of his behavior, his arc shows in detail the kind of emotional [[UsedToBeASweetKid damage]] [[JadeColouredGlasses a person]] [[LonelyAtTheTop would]] [[IJustWantToBeLoved have to]] [[LoveHungry endure]] [[FreudianExcuse to behave the way]] [[TragicHero he does]] and how that ''still'' won't excuse any of his behavior to the people in his life, his friends especially.
14th Dec '17 10:33:13 PM heartauthor
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*** Add to this idea a hefty amount of {{Deliberate Values Dissonance}}, and you have the Sugarman family. While Beatrice's parents telling her that as a girl, she should only be expected to be [[StayInTheKitchen be a perfect wife and mother]] may be shocking in this day and age, this was a commonplace mentality in the 1940s; however, things go {{From Bad To Worse}} after Beatrice's brother, [=CrackerJack=], is killed in action in World War II. Honey Sugarman's unchecked grief over her son's death results in her endangering Beatrice in a car accident and begging her husband to "fix" her, culminating in [[spoiler: a lobotomy, and]] making Beatrice promise [[LoveMakesYouCrazy not to love anyone that much ever again]]. Joseph Sugarman was callous and emotionally distant, telling his young daughter that "crying is stupid" and [[DissonantSerenity threatening Beatrice with her mother's condition]] to make her behave. Because of this, Beatrice was unable to openly express emotions such as love or fear, resulting in her loveless relationship with Butterscotch and their abuse of [=BoJack=].
21st Oct '17 9:33:52 AM JJHIL325
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** Bojack's mother Beatrice Horseman treats Bojack like crap, talking him down and insulting him with every conversation she has with him, trying to intentionally crush his dreams as an emotionally abusive parent. Flashbacks in Season Four show that she was raised by [[DeliberateValuesDissonance an extremely sexist father]] [[spoiler:who not only gave her mother a lobotomy when she "couldn't keep her womanly emotions in check," but was completely unsympathetic when he burned Beatrice's toys due to her Scarlet Fever, even obliquely threatening the crying Beatrice with a lobotomy of her own if she didn't reign it in]]. That being said, Beatrice is never portrayed as having been justified in her horrid treatment of Bojack and is still held accountable for her actions with her son being unable to forgive his mother for the way she treated him, even if he understands TheChainOfHarm that led them to where they are now and is willing to provide some comfort for the sake of burying the hatchet.

to:

** Bojack's mother Beatrice Horseman treats Bojack like crap, talking him down and insulting him with every conversation she has with him, trying to intentionally crush his dreams as an emotionally abusive parent. Flashbacks in Season Four show that she was raised by [[DeliberateValuesDissonance an extremely sexist father]] [[spoiler:who not only gave her mother a lobotomy when she "couldn't keep her womanly emotions in check," but was completely unsympathetic when he burned Beatrice's toys due to her Scarlet Fever, even obliquely threatening the crying Beatrice with a lobotomy of her own if she didn't reign it in]]. That being said, Beatrice is never portrayed as having been justified in her horrid treatment of Bojack and is still held accountable for her actions with her actions. Her son being is also unable to forgive his mother for the way she treated him, even if he understands TheChainOfHarm that led them to where they are now and is willing to provide some comfort for the sake of burying the hatchet.
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