7 Hours Left to Support a Troper-Created Project : Personal Space (discuss)

History CreatorsPet / ComicBooks

25th May '16 9:48:47 AM KamenRiderKrypton
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Creator/DwayneMcDuffie had Franchise/GreenLantern John Stewart, though this was largely part of self-fulfilling prophecy; a lot of fans didn't like Stewart for the way he leapfrogged Kyle Rayner (previously established in the animated canon) and longtime comic GL Hal Jordan to be the ''JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' Green Lantern. This led to [=McDuffie=] (a black creator who was quite vocal on what he felt was racism within the TV and comic industry, and who had inherited Stewart on the cartoon from the previous showrunner) making some comments equating ** [[EverythingIsRacist hatred of Stewart as racism]], which led to the widespread notion that Stewart was [=McDuffie=]'s pet character.
Fast forward a couple of years when [=McDuffie=] took over the ''Justice League of America'' comic and he was told to use John instead of Hal as the Justice League of America's Green Lantern on orders from above (partly because Hal was being given [[ComicBook/JusticeLeagueCryForJustice HIS JLA TEAM!]]). Sadly for [=McDuffie=], [[FanDumb fandom took the change badly]], not helped in the least by the fact that Hal's JLA spin-off was delayed and reduced to a mini-series when it became apparent that James Robinson's artist was never going to get the book done on time. This lead to Hal returning to the title until his book was ready, followed by John's reinstatement just long enough for him to be bounced again and replaced with Hal until he was quickly replaced with Jade when they needed a book to focus on her ''ComicBook/BrightestDay'' storyline. The entire process was made progressively worse and worse by ExecutiveMeddling, in case you couldn't tell. And when [=McDuffie=] had the ''gall'' to describe this and the other creative difficulties on his forum (without assigning blame or complaining), DC [[ShootTheMessenger responded by firing him]].

to:

* Creator/DwayneMcDuffie had Franchise/GreenLantern John Stewart, though this was largely part of self-fulfilling prophecy; a lot of fans didn't like Stewart for the way he leapfrogged Kyle Rayner (previously established in the animated canon) and longtime comic GL Hal Jordan to be the ''JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' Green Lantern. This led to [=McDuffie=] (a black creator who was quite vocal on what he felt was racism within the TV and comic industry, and who had inherited Stewart on the cartoon from the previous showrunner) making some comments equating ** [[EverythingIsRacist hatred of Stewart as racism]], which led to the widespread notion that Stewart was [=McDuffie=]'s pet character.
character. Fast forward a couple of years when [=McDuffie=] took over the ''Justice League of America'' comic and he was told to use John instead of Hal as the Justice League of America's Green Lantern on orders from above (partly because Hal was being given [[ComicBook/JusticeLeagueCryForJustice HIS JLA TEAM!]]). Sadly for [=McDuffie=], [[FanDumb fandom took the change badly]], not helped in the least by the fact that Hal's JLA spin-off was delayed and reduced to a mini-series when it became apparent that James Robinson's artist was never going to get the book done on time. This lead to Hal returning to the title until his book was ready, followed by John's reinstatement just long enough for him to be bounced again and replaced with Hal until he was quickly replaced with Jade when they needed a book to focus on her ''ComicBook/BrightestDay'' storyline. The entire process was made progressively worse and worse by ExecutiveMeddling, in case you couldn't tell. And when [=McDuffie=] had the ''gall'' to describe this and the other creative difficulties on his forum (without assigning blame or complaining), DC [[ShootTheMessenger responded by firing him]].



** He also, weirdly, decided to make her a big focus in his Silver Surfer run. Fan reception was no better there, with StrangledByTheReadString occurring as he tried to make readers believe that she was Norrin's true love, when everyone was ''already'' hoping he'd get together with Nova... which he eventually did, when Mantis was written out of the series, to the relief of all.

to:

** He also, weirdly, decided to make her a big focus in his Silver Surfer run. Fan reception was no better there, with StrangledByTheReadString StrangledByTheRedString occurring as he tried to make readers believe that she was Norrin's true love, when everyone was ''already'' hoping he'd get together with Nova... which he eventually did, when Mantis was written out of the series, to the relief of all.
22nd May '16 8:18:46 AM XSpectreGreyX
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** He also, weirdly, decided to make her a big focus in his Silver Surfer run. Fan reception was no better there, with StrangledByTheReadString occurring as he tried to make readers believe that she was Norrin's true love, when everyone was ''already'' hoping he'd get together with Nova... which he eventually did, when Mantis was written out of the series, to the relief of all.
19th May '16 1:50:07 PM PurpleEmperor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Creator/DwayneMcDuffie had Franchise/GreenLantern John Stewart, though this was largely part of self-fulfilling prophecy; a lot of fans didn't like Stewart for the way he leapfrogged Kyle Rayner (previously established in the animated canon) and longtime comic GL Hal Jordan to be the ''JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' Green Lantern. This led to [=McDuffie=] (a black creator who was quite vocal on what he felt was racism within the TV and comic industry, and who had inherited Stewart on the cartoon from the previous showrunner) making some comments equating [[EverythingIsRacist hatred of Stewart as racism]], which led to the widespread notion that Stewart was [=McDuffie=]'s pet character.\\
\\

to:

* Creator/DwayneMcDuffie had Franchise/GreenLantern John Stewart, though this was largely part of self-fulfilling prophecy; a lot of fans didn't like Stewart for the way he leapfrogged Kyle Rayner (previously established in the animated canon) and longtime comic GL Hal Jordan to be the ''JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' Green Lantern. This led to [=McDuffie=] (a black creator who was quite vocal on what he felt was racism within the TV and comic industry, and who had inherited Stewart on the cartoon from the previous showrunner) making some comments equating ** [[EverythingIsRacist hatred of Stewart as racism]], which led to the widespread notion that Stewart was [=McDuffie=]'s pet character.\\
\\
16th May '16 1:19:10 PM KlawKalash
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** And yet, to everyone's great surprise, his role in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'' has managed to overcome a lot of the hate he generated under less competent writers. He get's some holes punctured in his incessant moralizing, his spiritualism is written with a more humorous air, his backstory get's some nuance to it, and has some horrible consequences of his well intentioned actions coming back to bite him in the ass and leave him cast adrift. Even the [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Drift_%28G1%29#Notes Transformers Wiki]] admits he's a much more tolerable, if not outright enjoyable, character.

to:

** And yet, to everyone's great surprise, his role in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'' has managed to overcome a lot of the hate he generated under less competent writers. He get's some holes punctured in his incessant moralizing, his spiritualism is written with a more humorous air, his backstory get's gets some nuance to it, and has some horrible consequences of his well intentioned actions coming back to bite him in the ass and leave him cast adrift. Even the [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Drift_%28G1%29#Notes Transformers Wiki]] admits he's a much more tolerable, if not outright enjoyable, character.
16th May '16 1:04:11 PM KlawKalash
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Also, she's coming off as a CompositeCharacter to many. Tries hard to invoke the NerdsAreSexy trope, presumably so that she's "on the same intellectual level" as Peter or some such nonsense? '''Deb Whitman'''. Has a tragic past involving her father (really, couldn't even make it the mother? Or another authority figure?), that really doesn't come off as being as bad as '''MJ's''' was. Touted as being the "perfect girl" for Peter, being idolized (this time by people in-universe, as opposed to in fans' memories). '''Gwen Stacy''' (fans hope she will complete this set by dying) ''Falling in love with "plain" ol' Peter Parker?'' '''Mary Jane again'''.

to:

** Also, she's coming off as a CompositeCharacter to many. Tries hard to invoke the NerdsAreSexy trope, presumably so that she's "on the same intellectual level" as Peter or some such nonsense? '''Deb Whitman'''. Has a tragic past involving her father (really, couldn't even make it the mother? Or another authority figure?), that really doesn't come off as being as bad as '''MJ's''' was. Touted as being the "perfect girl" for Peter, being idolized (this time by people in-universe, as opposed to in fans' memories). memories) '''Gwen Stacy''' (fans hope she will complete this set by dying) ''Falling in love with "plain" ol' Peter Parker?'' '''Mary Jane again'''.
26th Apr '16 5:36:00 PM Mullon
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''ComicBook/{{Earth 2}}'' has a Pet quartet: Val-Zod, Thomas Wayne, Red Tornado Lois, and Jimmy Olsen. Though they were introduced in the well-liked Robinson run, it was under the pen of Tom Taylor that they became outright hated. The entire premise of the book was that it was a world where the Trinity were KilledOffForReal and the book would instead focus on the ex-JSA {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s, so bringing in {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s to the two most overexposed members of the Trinity and their supporting cast went over like a lead balloon. And that's before they started grabbing character focus and arcs like crazy, even taking a disproportionate amount of cover space, while the original main characters were weakened, DemotedToExtra, or just plain forgotten. The result was one of the most unique books in DC's library at the time being reduced in the eyes of readers to a second-rate knockoff of ''InjusticeGodsAmongUs'', with an appropriate crater in the sales. Fans consider them incredibly boring and completely redundant, and often theorize that Taylor is [[ExecutiveMeddling being ordered by editorial mandate]] to use [[WolverinePublicity more recognizable characters]] (which would explain why Robinson quit). Things might change for the new Earth-2 book following ''Convergence'', [[spoiler:where Thomas Wayne is now dead, and emphasis will hopefully be more on other characters like Jay Garrick or Alan Scott]].

to:

* ''ComicBook/{{Earth 2}}'' has a Pet quartet: Val-Zod, Thomas Wayne, Red Tornado Lois, and Jimmy Olsen. Though they were introduced in the well-liked Robinson run, it was under the pen of Tom Taylor that they became outright hated. The entire premise of the book was that it was a world where the Trinity were KilledOffForReal and the book would instead focus on the ex-JSA {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s, so bringing in {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s to the two most overexposed members of the Trinity and their supporting cast went over like a lead balloon. And that's before they started grabbing character focus and arcs like crazy, even taking a disproportionate amount of cover space, while the original main characters were weakened, DemotedToExtra, or just plain forgotten. The result was one of the most unique books in DC's library at the time being reduced in the eyes of readers to a second-rate knockoff of ''InjusticeGodsAmongUs'', ''ComicBook/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'', with an appropriate crater in the sales. Fans consider them incredibly boring and completely redundant, and often theorize that Taylor is [[ExecutiveMeddling being ordered by editorial mandate]] to use [[WolverinePublicity more recognizable characters]] (which would explain why Robinson quit). Things might change for the new Earth-2 book following ''Convergence'', [[spoiler:where Thomas Wayne is now dead, and emphasis will hopefully be more on other characters like Jay Garrick or Alan Scott]].
23rd Apr '16 12:07:53 AM Reddo
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Harper Row. She was created because of the post nu52 veto on Cass Cain and Steph Brown, but since they've come back she's been shilled as basically better than either of them as well as the 'uber Robin'. This includes things like being more determined than Steph (who's famously the biggest Determinator in the franchise in terms of never quitting despite horrible odds) and central to every part of Cass' character development to the point where her whole motivation is now based on Harper. We're frequently told how great she is without any evidence and nobody ever calls her out on any of her frequent Jerkass -ness.
17th Apr '16 1:06:48 PM Blazer
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ComicBook/SpiderGwen in ''ComicBook/WebWarriors''. While in her title, she's shown to be a rookie way out of her league against superhumans, in ''Web Warriors'', writer Mike Costa turns her into TheAce who can handle both armies of Electros and Dr. Octopuses with ease. ComicBook/SpiderManNoir ends up describing her as someone who really doesn't need to ''be'' part of the team when most of the heroes shown in the series have been fighting for so much longer and dealt with a lot more.
19th Feb '16 5:43:57 PM Tightwire
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Jason Todd as well, and for many of the same reasons. His characterisation since coming back from the dead changes depending on the writer, which makes it seem like DC is just doing anything and seeing what works. The attempt at darkening him has him do things that no other Bat-character could get away with, such as casually killing (emphasis on the casual) and using guns (Peter Tomasi did however write him as going for leg shots in front of Batman), while having the negative personality aspects of Damian, but none of the charm, nor the excuse of being a child.

to:

** Jason Todd as well, and for many of the same reasons. His characterisation since coming back from the dead changes depending on the writer, which makes it seem like DC is just doing anything and seeing throwing it all at the wall to see what works.sticks. The attempt at darkening him has him do things that no other Bat-character could get away with, such as casually killing (emphasis on the casual) and using guns (Peter Tomasi did however write him as going for leg shots in front of Batman), while having the negative personality aspects of Damian, but none of the charm, nor the excuse of being a child.
19th Feb '16 5:36:38 PM Tightwire
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Different writers have met criticism over over usage of certain cast members. Ken Penders was noted for his expansion of the Echidna brotherhood, which by the end of his run had its population and story background bloated to a convoluted rate. This treatment did not seem mutual with later writers, who decided to limit their numbers and had numerous Echidna characters KilledOffForReal. Ian Flynn however has been noted for his recent usage of Sally Acorn, reestablishing her as an active Freedom Fighter and love interest for Sonic and giving her a fairly notable role in nearly every arc (ranging from main character to prominent supporting character). Granted in both cases there are still [[BaseBreaker a fair amount of supporters]], though it's obvious the fanbase is very polarized by their heavy usage in the comics.
*** To be fair of Sally, up until Ian took over, Sally had been through a major Chickification during the comic's DorkAge, so trying to reestablish her as an ActionGirl once more through heavy usage is probably sensible. However, Sally, under Ian's and everyone else's pen, gets rather consistent flak for over usage at the expense of other characters and being a rather clear-cut case of PositiveDiscrimination. She garners complaints for being blandly lucid and hyper competent (with her flaws being much more superficial than the other characters' flaws), and for her role as TheStraightMan to Sonic. The fact that Ian released a blog consisting of nothing but how awesome a character Sally is doesn't help much.
*** If you want to get technical with the usage of Knuckles and the echidna expansion, consider the following: Ken Penders has stated, flat out, that he doesn't use characters that people created and, in turn, considers things that people do to his own characters non-canon. He has admitted that the first character that he used that wasn't his or already pre-established was Mina Mongoose in issue 150[[note]]which isn't actually true, as he'd apparently forgotten his use of Mammoth Mogul early in the Knuckles comic[[/note]] and proclaimed that, if he were to return to the comic, he would automatically make all of Ian Flynn's work non canon because they went against his pre-established ideas. If that doesn't scream "Creator's Pet", nothing will.
*** Here's one more: Penders has stated that Archie can his characters again if certain conditions are met, one of them is making his ''Mobius: 25 Years Later'' story the canon future of the book. Aside from that story having Knuckles be the one the ultimately kills Eggman and the Sega characters getting married off, it's also a prequel to ''The Lara-Su Chronicles'', a story that Penders is working to get published through a different company and stars Knuckles' daughter. Thing is, Penders can only publish ''TLSC'' if it doesn't resemble the Sega-Sonic art-style and isn't tied directly to the Sonic books. So the condition about''25YL'' is nothing than forcing his vision on the book for personal reasons.

to:

** Different writers have met criticism over over usage of certain cast members. Ken Penders was noted for his expansion of the Echidna brotherhood, which by the end of his run had its population and story background bloated to a convoluted rate. This treatment did not seem mutual with later writers, who decided Later writers preferred to limit their numbers and had numerous Echidna characters KilledOffForReal. Ian Flynn however has been noted for his recent heavy usage of Sally Acorn, reestablishing her as an active Freedom Fighter and love interest for Sonic and giving her a fairly notable role in nearly every arc (ranging from main character to prominent supporting character). Granted in both cases there are still [[BaseBreaker a fair amount of supporters]], though it's obvious the fanbase is very polarized by their heavy usage in the comics.
*** To be fair of with Sally, up until Ian took over, Sally had been through a major Chickification during the comic's DorkAge, so trying to reestablish re-establish her as an ActionGirl once more through heavy usage is probably sensible. However, Sally, under Ian's and everyone else's pen, gets rather consistent flak for over usage at the expense of other characters and being a rather clear-cut case of PositiveDiscrimination. She garners complaints for being blandly lucid and hyper competent (with her flaws being much more superficial than the other characters' flaws), and for her role as TheStraightMan to Sonic. The fact that Ian released a blog consisting of nothing but how awesome a character Sally is doesn't help much.
*** If you want to get technical with the usage of Knuckles and the echidna expansion, expansion of the Echidna civilisation, consider the following: Ken Penders has stated, flat out, that he doesn't use characters that other people created and, and in turn, considers things that people do to his own characters non-canon. He has admitted that the first character that he used that wasn't his or already pre-established was Mina Mongoose in issue 150[[note]]which isn't actually true, as he'd apparently forgotten his use of Mammoth Mogul early in the Knuckles comic[[/note]] and proclaimed that, if he were to return to the comic, he would automatically make all of Ian Flynn's work non canon because they went against his pre-established ideas. If that doesn't scream "Creator's Pet", nothing will.
*** Here's one more: more issue people have: Penders has stated that Archie can use his characters again if certain conditions are met, one of them is making his ''Mobius: 25 Years Later'' story the canon future of the book. Aside from that story having Knuckles be the one the ultimately kills Eggman and the Sega characters getting married off, off with babies. Not only would this drive fans absolutely crazy with ShippingWars, it's also meant to be a prequel to ''The Lara-Su Chronicles'', a story that Penders is working to get published through a different company and stars Knuckles' daughter. Thing is, Penders can only publish ''TLSC'' if it doesn't resemble the Sega-Sonic art-style and isn't tied directly to the Sonic books. So the condition about''25YL'' about ''25YL'' is nothing than just him forcing his vision on the book for personal reasons.
This list shows the last 10 events of 311. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=CreatorsPet.ComicBooks