History Comicbook / Watchmen

5th Mar '17 5:41:51 PM nombretomado
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** In ''Watchmen'', superhero comics died off after the 'real thing' started emerging -- instead, horror and drama comics are all the rage, D.C. and E.C. mainly publish stories about pirates, and Timely/Atlas Comics does not appear to have become MarvelComics, as it did in our world. It is implied in one article that Frederick Wertham's anti-comics campaigns were ignored due to the propaganda value of American costumed heroes being promoted in print; ironically, this prevents the genericisation of the American comics industry that happened after Wertham in real life, and the superhero genre eventually dies a natural death.

to:

** In ''Watchmen'', superhero comics died off after the 'real thing' started emerging -- instead, horror and drama comics are all the rage, D.C. and E.C. mainly publish stories about pirates, and Timely/Atlas Comics does not appear to have become MarvelComics, Creator/MarvelComics, as it did in our world. It is implied in one article that Frederick Wertham's anti-comics campaigns were ignored due to the propaganda value of American costumed heroes being promoted in print; ironically, this prevents the genericisation of the American comics industry that happened after Wertham in real life, and the superhero genre eventually dies a natural death.
15th Feb '17 11:45:38 AM JulianLapostat
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** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].

to:

** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].media. Indeed, when Nite Owl and Rorscharch meet Veidt in his lair, he is wearing his old superhero costume rather than the civilian clothing he had been wearing throughout the comic, which suggests that in his mind he sees his actions as superheroic even if it appears the contrary to his ex-Crimebusters]].
15th Feb '17 11:35:51 AM BatmanKalEl
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* FridgeLogic: Chapter 11 actually manages to [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]] this, qualifying as an in-universe use of the trope. When Veidt reveals that he hired his own assassin in order to cast suspicion away from him, Dan expresses disbelief, and asks what would happen if the assassin shot at him instead. Veidt replies that he would have just had to catch the bullet. Dan's reaction is priceless, and the look on Veidt's face is just awesome. The fact that he actually ''does'' catch a bullet in the next chapter, in spite of his own doubt, makes it even better. Also, it's worth noting that he managed to ''block'' the bullet with a heavy lamp when the assassin did shoot at him.
15th Feb '17 12:16:13 AM Mr.Bubbles
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** There's a movie star with an AlliterativeName running for President of the United States, but it's Creator/RobertRedford instead of Creator/RonaldReagan.
** The 22nd Amendment was apparently never passed in this universe, and Watergate either never happened or didn't have its real-life effects, since UsefulNotes/RichardNixon is on his fifth term in office.

to:

** There's a movie star with an AlliterativeName running for President of the United States, States in 1988, but it's Creator/RobertRedford instead of Creator/RonaldReagan.
** The 22nd Amendment was apparently never passed amended in this universe, and Watergate either never happened happened, wasn't discovered, or just didn't have its real-life effects, since so UsefulNotes/RichardNixon is on his fifth term in office.



* NeverWasThisUniverse: See the InSpiteOfANail entry above. Besides the "58 Varieties" and "New York Gazette" examples, there are also other minor differences between our world and the world of Watchmen such as the existence of a man with actual psychic powers that seem to be unrelated to the costumed heroes or Dr. Manhattan, therefore suggesting that world of Watchmen was never ours to begin with.

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* NeverWasThisUniverse: See the InSpiteOfANail entry above. Besides the "58 Varieties" and "New York Gazette" examples, there are also other minor differences between our world and the world of Watchmen such as the existence of a man with actual psychic powers that seem to be unrelated to the costumed heroes or Dr. Manhattan, therefore suggesting that world of Watchmen was never ours to begin with.
13th Feb '17 3:47:23 AM morenohijazo
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* LonelyAtTheTop: discussed by Ozymandias.

to:

* LonelyAtTheTop: discussed Discussed by Ozymandias.



* MarriedToTheJob: Deconstructed. Worse if that job is as a costumed vigilante. What's the point of fighting street level crime when bigger issues like impending nuclear war hangs over everyone's head? Only someone really screwed up like Hooded Justice, Rorschach or Ozymandias would choose this as a career.



* MarriedToTheJob: Deconstructed. Worse if that job is as a costumed vigilante. What's the point of fighting street level crime when bigger issues like impending nuclear war hangs over everyone's head? Only someone really screwed up like Hooded Justice, Rorschach or Ozymandias would choose this as a career.



* MenGetOldWomenGetReplaced: There were originally two female members of the Minutemen team which existed in the 1940s: Silhouette and Silk Spectre. When the Crimebusters formed as their replacements, there were two veterans of the Minutemen: Captain Metropolis and The Comedian. Silhouette was [[BuryYourGays killed after being outed as a lesbian]] and Silk Spectre was replaced by her younger daughter.



* MenGetOldWomenGetReplaced: There were originally two female members of the Minutemen team which existed in the 1940s: Silhouette and Silk Spectre. When the Crimebusters formed as their replacements, there were two veterans of the Minutemen: Captain Metropolis and The Comedian. Silhouette was [[BuryYourGays killed after being outed as a lesbian]] and Silk Spectre was replaced by her younger daughter.

to:

* MenGetOldWomenGetReplaced: There were originally two female members of the Minutemen team which existed in the 1940s: Silhouette and Silk Spectre. When the Crimebusters formed as their replacements, there were two veterans of the Minutemen: MischiefForPunishment: Captain Metropolis Carnage is said to have done this, the kink version.
* MissionCreep: Part of the drama about the grounded take on superheroes is the poignancy of what heroes do, or what they become, when there aren't bad guys and supervillains to fight and they have to take on real problems. The comic dealt with the fact that superheroes who sign up to "fight crime" and "save the world" will eventually face issues when saving the world means taking a stand against the government that they ostensibly serve.
** As noted by Hollis Mason and others, the original superheroes were formed to fight street crime and to that end, they formed crime fighting groups and gadgets. But upon meeting with success and facing a reduction of crime, the superheroes have to find other avenues to work, and either become celebrities, try (and fail) to blend back into civilian life or in the case of Mason, retire only to come to face the PhysicalGod Dr. Manhattan who is more or less going to make his career and all memory of it obsolete. Eventually the superheroes face a public and government backlash, opposed by the police and other supporters for being Vigilante government-loyal stooges in a time when America is [[{{Eagleland}} a major, unopposed superpower]].
** Ozymandias
and The Comedian. Silhouette Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].
* MistakenIdentity:
** Blaire Roche, the little girl Rorschach failed to save,
was [[BuryYourGays kidnapped because she had the same last name as some rich family.
** Hollis Mason was
killed after being outed because it was thought he was the Nite Owl who busted Rorschach out of jail.
* MonsterModesty: Inverted with Doc Manhattan, who becomes increasingly immodest
as he gets further from his humanity.
* MoralityKitchenSink: Each of the major characters is based around
a lesbian]] different system of morality, and Silk Spectre was replaced by her younger daughter.the conflict between these different moral outlooks drives much of the story. The Comedian is a Nihilist who sees the world as nothing but a joke, and just doesn't care about right or wrong, Rorschach is an Objectivist and a moral absolutist, incapable of seeing the world in any terms other than Black and White, Dr. Manhattan is so alienated from the human experience that the very concept of morality escapes him, and Ozymandias follows a Utilitarian moral code, in which even the most evil acts act be justified if they serve the greater good.



* MoralityKitchenSink: Each of the major characters is based around a different system of morality, and the conflict between these different moral outlooks drives much of the story. The Comedian is a Nihilist who sees the world as nothing but a joke, and just doesn't care about right or wrong, Rorschach is an Objectivist and a moral absolutist, incapable of seeing the world in any terms other than Black and White, Dr. Manhattan is so alienated from the human experience that the very concept of morality escapes him, and Ozymandias follows a Utilitarian moral code, in which even the most evil acts act be justified if they serve the greater good.



* MischiefForPunishment: Captain Carnage is said to have done this, the kink version.
* MistakenIdentity
** Blaire Roche, the little girl Rorschach failed to save, was kidnapped because she had the same last name as some rich family.
** Hollis Mason was killed because it was thought he was the Nite Owl who busted Rorschach out of jail.
* MissionCreep: Part of the drama about the grounded take on superheroes is the poignancy of what heroes do, or what they become, when there aren't bad guys and supervillains to fight and they have to take on real problems:
** As noted by Hollis Mason and others, the original superheroes were formed to fight street crime and to that end, they formed crime fighting groups and gadgets. But upon meeting with success and facing a reduction of crime, the superheroes have to find other avenues to work, and either become celebrities, try (and fail) to blend back into civilian life or in the case of Mason, retire only to come to face the PhysicalGod Dr. Manhattan who is more or less going to make his career and all memory of it obsolete. Eventually the superheroes face a public and government backlash, opposed by the police and other supporters for being Vigilante government-loyal stooges in a time when America is [[{{Eagleland}} a major, unopposed superpower]].
** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].



* MonsterModesty: Inverted with Doc Manhattan, who becomes increasingly immodest as he gets further from his humanity.
10th Feb '17 10:24:17 PM LackadaisicalGerbil
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* TheGhost: Soviets --and the Soviet Union in general-- are mentioned constantly during all the story but they aren't never seen onscreen.

to:

* TheGhost: Soviets --and the Soviet Union in general-- are mentioned constantly during all the story but they aren't never ever seen onscreen.



* GoodCopBadCop: Nite Owl and Rorschach, respectively. However, this gets reversed when Nite Owl, angered over the death of Hollis Mason, [[RabidCop goes overboard]] during an interrogation and ''Rorschach'' has to reign him in.

to:

* GoodCopBadCop: Nite Owl and Rorschach, respectively. However, this gets reversed when Nite Owl, angered over the death of Hollis Mason, [[RabidCop goes overboard]] during an interrogation and ''Rorschach'' has to reign rein him in.



* PoliticallyIncorrectHero: Deconstructed. Hooded Justice disappeared probably too avoid getting accused as anti-American thanks to him being a former Nazi sympathizer.

to:

* PoliticallyIncorrectHero: Deconstructed. Hooded Justice disappeared probably too to avoid getting accused as anti-American thanks to him being a former Nazi sympathizer.
26th Jan '17 7:59:44 PM JulianLapostat
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* DatedHistory: Rorschach's account of the murder of Kitty Genovese is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. This was, for years, the only narrative about what happened, and was the one Moore drew on. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack, so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another, a 70-year-old woman, cradled her while she was dying. So while Genovese's murder was undoubtedly horrible, it was no more awful than most murders: the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]].



* TruthInTelevision: Averted in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach, in such a way as to make it ''marginally'' less depressing. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. This was, for years, the only narrative about what happened, and was the one Moore drew on. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack, so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another, a 70-year-old woman, cradled her while she was dying. So while Genovese's murder was undoubtedly horrible, it was no more awful than most murders: the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]].
26th Jan '17 7:34:30 AM 06tele
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* TruthInTelevision: Averted in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach, in such a way as to make it less depressing. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. This was, for years, the only narrative about what happened, and was the one Moore drew on. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack, so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another, a 70-year-old woman, cradled her while she was dying. So while Genovese's murder was undoubtedly horrible, it was no more awful than most murders: the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]].

to:

* TruthInTelevision: Averted in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach, in such a way as to make it ''marginally'' less depressing. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. This was, for years, the only narrative about what happened, and was the one Moore drew on. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack, so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another, a 70-year-old woman, cradled her while she was dying. So while Genovese's murder was undoubtedly horrible, it was no more awful than most murders: the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]].
26th Jan '17 7:32:47 AM 06tele
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* TruthInTelevision: Averted in a curiously heartwarming way in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another cradled her while she was dying. So while her murder was tragic and awful, the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]] on the occasion of the murderer's death in prison.

to:

* TruthInTelevision: Averted in a curiously heartwarming way in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach.Rorschach, in such a way as to make it less depressing. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. This was, for years, the only narrative about what happened, and was the one Moore drew on. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack attack, so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another another, a 70-year-old woman, cradled her while she was dying. So while her Genovese's murder was tragic and awful, undoubtedly horrible, it was no more awful than most murders: the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]] on the occasion of the murderer's death in prison.article]].
26th Jan '17 7:29:38 AM 06tele
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Added DiffLines:

* TruthInTelevision: Averted in a curiously heartwarming way in the case of the murder of Kitty Genovese, as recounted by Rorschach. Rorschach's account is based on a ''New York Times'' article that came out shortly after Genovese's death, which said that 38 people watched her being killed in plain view, and did nothing. However, later researchers found that the ''Times'' story lacked evidence: nobody saw the attack in its entirety and those that did see it only saw parts of it. Some people heard her cries for help, but assumed it was a lover's quarrel or just people leaving a bar. The killer attacked Genovese twice, disguising himself after the first attack so people didn't realise it was the same guy. After the second attack, one of Genovese's neighbours called the police and another cradled her while she was dying. So while her murder was tragic and awful, the story that people watched it happen and didn't lift a finger is entirely without foundation, and seems to have been made up by the original reporter, as the ''Times'' itself acknowledged in a [[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html 2016 article]] on the occasion of the murderer's death in prison.
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