History ComicBook / Watchmen

22nd Oct '17 11:38:09 AM nombretomado
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** Chapter IX: The Darkness of Mere Being (from the book, ''Memories, Dreams, Reflections'', by CarlJung).

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** Chapter IX: The Darkness of Mere Being (from the book, ''Memories, Dreams, Reflections'', by CarlJung).UsefulNotes/CarlJung).
15th Oct '17 9:35:22 PM Snowy66
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Added DiffLines:

* TokenSuper: Doctor Manhattan is the TropeCodifier, winning big on the SuperpowerLottery and ending up as the only hero in the Watchmen continuity to have powers, which are [[PhysicalGod god-like]]. The rest of the Watchmen are all {{Non Powered Costumed Hero}}s.
7th Oct '17 7:32:03 PM DustSnitch
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* AnAesop: If the comic book has one, it can likely be summarised along the following lines: "An ethics that considers ''only'' {{UsefulNotes/utilitarianism}}[[note]]the stance that ethical actions are those which produce the greatest good for the greatest number of people, which can vary depending upon context[[/note]] or ''only'' the categorical imperative[[note]]the stance that actions are ethically wrong regardless of context; strongly associated with Immanuel Kant, as it is the central concept in his deontological ethics[[/note]] has fatal flaws that make it indifferent to actually existing human suffering." [[spoiler:Ozymandias can be considered to represent a particularly dark take on utilitarianism; he kills millions of people because he thinks it will save the planet from nuclear war. It's not even clear that he's actually wrong to believe this; the ending ambiguously suggests it's possible that TheExtremistWasRight, and he seems to think of himself as NecessarilyEvil. However, it's also nearly impossible to sympathise with him, occasional cases of DracoInLeatherPants aside. Rorschach, by contrast, represents the categorical imperative: "No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise." While he, too, has a MisaimedFandom, it's pretty clear we're not supposed to sympathise with him on this. His belief that Ozymandias should be punished for his actions is suggested to be understandable; his belief that Ozymandias' actions should be ''exposed'' is not. The reason the ending is ambiguous is because he sent his journal to the ''New Frontiersman'' before his death, and it's unclear whether it will be dismissed as the ravings of a conspiracy theorist published in a fringe magazine or whether it will be taken seriously. (Interestingly, Rorschach is also depicted as a {{hypocrite}} over this; for example, he defends Truman's bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on utilitarian grounds.) Moore's own take seems to be that we're not supposed to ''like'' either of these characters; they are {{antihero}}es or {{antivillain}}s at best. Both of them take their respective ethical philosophies to unjustifiable extremes that are shown to be callous to the actual human suffering depicted in the comic. A balanced ethical perspective, ''Watchmen'' suggests, needs to consider ''both'' the categorical imperative and utilitarianism, and since they're intrinsically contradictory stances, it can't take either of them to extremes. Incidentally, the comic isn't remotely {{anvilicious}} about any of this; while the ethical and philosophical conflict between the characters is clearly demonstrated by their actions, they're shown by an omniscient narrator and presented without any narrative editorialising.]]

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* AnAesop: If the comic book has one, it can likely be summarised along the following lines: "An ethics that considers ''only'' {{UsefulNotes/utilitarianism}}[[note]]the stance that ethical actions are those which produce the greatest good for the greatest number of people, which can vary depending upon context[[/note]] or ''only'' the categorical imperative[[note]]the stance that actions are ethically wrong regardless of context; strongly associated with Immanuel Kant, as it is the central concept in his deontological ethics[[/note]] has fatal flaws that make it indifferent to actually existing human suffering." [[spoiler:Ozymandias Ozymandias can be considered to represent a particularly dark take on utilitarianism; he kills millions of people because he thinks it will save the planet from nuclear war. It's not even clear that he's actually wrong to believe this; the ending ambiguously suggests it's possible that TheExtremistWasRight, and he seems to think of himself as NecessarilyEvil. However, it's also nearly impossible to sympathise with him, occasional cases of DracoInLeatherPants aside. Rorschach, by contrast, represents the categorical imperative: "No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise." While he, too, has a MisaimedFandom, it's pretty clear we're not supposed to sympathise with him on this. His belief that Ozymandias should be punished for his actions is suggested to be understandable; his belief that Ozymandias' actions should be ''exposed'' is not. The reason the ending is ambiguous is because he sent his journal to the ''New Frontiersman'' before his death, and it's unclear whether it will be dismissed as the ravings of a conspiracy theorist published in a fringe magazine or whether it will be taken seriously. (Interestingly, Rorschach is also depicted as a {{hypocrite}} over this; for example, he defends Truman's bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on utilitarian grounds.) Moore's own take seems to be that we're not supposed to ''like'' either of these characters; they are {{antihero}}es or {{antivillain}}s at best. Both of them take their respective ethical philosophies to unjustifiable extremes that are shown to be callous to the actual human suffering depicted in the comic. A balanced ethical perspective, ''Watchmen'' suggests, needs to consider ''both'' the categorical imperative and utilitarianism, and since they're intrinsically contradictory stances, it can't take either of them to extremes. Incidentally, the comic isn't remotely {{anvilicious}} about any of this; while the ethical and philosophical conflict between the characters is clearly demonstrated by their actions, they're shown by an omniscient narrator and presented without any narrative editorialising.]]



** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media. Indeed, when Nite Owl and Rorscharch meet Veidt in his lair, he is wearing his old superhero costume rather than the civilian clothing he had been wearing throughout the comic, which suggests that in his mind he sees his actions as superheroic even if it appears the contrary to his ex-Crimebusters]].

to:

** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media. Indeed, when Nite Owl and Rorscharch meet Veidt in his lair, he is wearing his old superhero costume rather than the civilian clothing he had been wearing throughout the comic, which suggests that in his mind he sees his actions as superheroic even if it appears the contrary to his ex-Crimebusters]].ex-Crimebusters.



* UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom: [[spoiler: After the Comedian's death, Rorschach approaches Veidt with the possibility of a serial killer targeting former heroes, completely unaware that Veidt killed the Comedian for unrelated reasons. A single panel shows Veidt contemplating Rorschach's suggestion, and then Veidt begins killing masks in earnest as a RedHerring.]]
** [[spoiler: Rorschach again, when he leaves his journal for a tabloid to discover, including all his incriminating evidence against Veidt and his new utopia.]]

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* UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom: [[spoiler: UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom:
**
After the Comedian's death, Rorschach approaches Veidt with the possibility of a serial killer targeting former heroes, completely unaware that Veidt killed the Comedian for unrelated reasons. A single panel shows Veidt contemplating Rorschach's suggestion, and then Veidt begins killing masks in earnest as a RedHerring.]]
RedHerring.
** [[spoiler: Rorschach again, when he leaves his journal for a tabloid to discover, including all his incriminating evidence against Veidt and his new utopia.]]



* WhamShot: The opening pages of issue #12 are an extended one. [[spoiler: Half the cast has died horribly. It's implied that Laurie and Osterman are the only living things in New York City.]]

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* WhamShot: The opening pages of issue #12 are an extended one. [[spoiler: Half the cast has died horribly. It's implied that Laurie and Osterman are the only living things in New York City.]]
21st Sep '17 12:37:56 PM renenarciso2
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* WhamShot: The opening pages of issue #12 are an extended one. [[spoiler: Half the cast has died horribly. It's implied that Julie and Osterman are the only living things in New York City.]]

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* WhamShot: The opening pages of issue #12 are an extended one. [[spoiler: Half the cast has died horribly. It's implied that Julie Laurie and Osterman are the only living things in New York City.]]
21st Sep '17 12:32:01 PM renenarciso2
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* SuperheroesWearCapes: Deconstructed (like everything else) with the character of Dollar Bill. He was a former football player hired by a bank when they realized that having their own personal superhero on payroll was a great way to cash in on the masked vigilante craze. The costume was designed by the marketing department, who were going for style over practicality and thought that the cape added visual appeal. It ended up getting caught in a revolving door while he was trying to stop a robbery, at which point one of the robbers shot him point-blank in the chest. Aside from Captain Metropolis and the second-generation Nite Owl, none of the other superheroes wear capes.

to:

* SuperheroesWearCapes: Deconstructed (like everything else) with the character of Dollar Bill. He was a former football player hired by a bank when they realized that having their own personal superhero on payroll was a great way to cash in on the masked vigilante craze. The costume was designed by the marketing department, who were going for style over practicality and thought that the cape added visual appeal. It ended up getting caught in a revolving door while he was trying to stop a robbery, at which point one of the robbers shot him point-blank in the chest. Aside from Captain Metropolis and the second-generation Nite Owl, none of the other superheroes wear capes.
21st Sep '17 12:16:38 PM renenarciso2
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* TheOmnipresent: Doctor Manhattan, as is to be expected. He experiences all time simultaneously, and has no trouble sleeping with his girlfriend using a handful of bodies, while a dozen more work on science with Veidt.

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* TheOmnipresent: Doctor Manhattan, as is to be expected. He experiences all time simultaneously, and has no trouble sleeping with his girlfriend using a handful of bodies, while a dozen more work on a science with Veidt.experiment.
21st Sep '17 12:02:59 PM renenarciso2
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* LogicBomb: Possible explanation for why Rorshach told Dr. Manhattan to kill him. A little bit of FridgeBrilliance here. He realized how hypocritical it was to approve of Truman's decision to bomb Japan, but not for Adrian to bomb New York, despite both being done with the same intentions.

to:

* LogicBomb: Possible explanation for why Rorshach Rorschach told Dr. Manhattan to kill him. A little bit of FridgeBrilliance here. He realized how hypocritical it was to approve of Truman's decision to bomb Japan, but not for Adrian to bomb New York, despite both being done with the same intentions.
21st Sep '17 12:01:37 PM renenarciso2
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** In-universe, Adrian Veidt's superhero alter-ego Ozymandias is also an allusion to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias Percy Bysshe Shelley's poem]]; the [[DoubleMeaningTitle double meaning]] of the sonnet is hinted at and Veight himself is aware of the irony.

to:

** In-universe, Adrian Veidt's superhero alter-ego Ozymandias is also an allusion to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias Percy Bysshe Shelley's poem]]; the [[DoubleMeaningTitle double meaning]] of the sonnet is hinted at and Veight Veidt himself is aware of the irony.
21st Sep '17 12:01:00 PM renenarciso2
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** In-universe, Adrian Veight's superhero alter-ego Ozymandias is also an allusion to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias Percy Bysshe Shelley's poem]]; the [[DoubleMeaningTitle double meaning]] of the sonnet is hinted at and Veight himself is aware of the irony.

to:

** In-universe, Adrian Veight's Veidt's superhero alter-ego Ozymandias is also an allusion to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias Percy Bysshe Shelley's poem]]; the [[DoubleMeaningTitle double meaning]] of the sonnet is hinted at and Veight himself is aware of the irony.
21st Sep '17 11:53:18 AM renenarciso2
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* HyperlinkStory: The book has a main cast of 6 costumed heroes with an intricate past and history, and an extended supporting cast of ordinary humans who weave in and out of the larger story and contain many parallel vignettes that counterpoint the main story. Moore said that he concieved the story as an ensemble and felt that the characters were meant to work in conjunction with each other, and that ultimately there is no one main character in the book, and the perspective and point of view keeps being passed between five of the main cast, The Comedian is the most prominent PosthumousCharacter.

to:

* HyperlinkStory: The book has a main cast of 6 costumed heroes with an intricate past and history, and an extended supporting cast of ordinary humans who weave in and out of the larger story and contain many parallel vignettes that counterpoint the main story. Moore said that he concieved conceived the story as an ensemble and felt that the characters were meant to work in conjunction with each other, and that ultimately there is no one main character in the book, and the perspective and point of view keeps being passed between five of the main cast, The Comedian is the most prominent PosthumousCharacter.
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