History ComicBook / Watchmen

24th Apr '17 9:20:38 AM Caswin
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness: The brief "war room" scenes with still-President Nixon have this effect, with weird colors and shadows that make the powers that be look unsettlingly alien... but as it comes down to the wire, Tricky Dick himself, face lost in the shadows, can only pause and realize that "you" always think it'll be up to somebody else...
21st Apr '17 1:40:05 PM BatmanKalEl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* TheGhost: Soviets --and the Soviet Union in general-- are mentioned constantly during all the story but they aren't ever seen onscreen.

to:

* TheGhost: Soviets --and the Soviet Union in general-- are mentioned constantly during all the story but they aren't ever never seen onscreen.
11th Apr '17 5:49:43 PM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Rorschach, of all people, comments on how almost all the heroes he knows have severe mental issues, although he naturally doesn't realize the irony.
--->Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?


Added DiffLines:

* PsychologicalProjection: Rorscharch has a talent for this, projecting those characteristics on to others that he unknowingly possesses himself.
--> '''Rorscharch''': Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?
** There's also his frequent insinuations about how AllWomenAreLustful, and how Ozymandias as a SellOut is similar to a prostitute, solely out of his own bitterness about his mother being a prostitute.
** Likewise his hilarious comment near the end about how he must not let the Egyptian decor at Veidt's office overpower his logic, unaware that his own logic was coloured by his mask-killer theory simply because Eddie Blake at the time of his death happened to be The Comedian.
10th Apr '17 11:15:11 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CapitalismIsBad: Ozymandias' empire and supervillain scheme is built on capitalism and consumerism and part of how he makes his power work is the way his products and advertising filter in the background without characters, main and supporting, even aware of his presence and intentions. Of course, Veidt is in many ways a "good" capitalist, he doesn't seem to exploit his employees in his non-villain schemes, he's not an anti-intellectual, and he's not a coward in the physical sense. From Veidt's view to be any kind of superhero with real world impact and influence, [[RequiredSecondaryPowers you need to have a business empire]].



* CharlesAtlasSuperPower: All the heroes and ex-heroes, except Dr. Manhattan, who has ''actual'' superpowers.

to:

* CharlesAtlasSuperPower: All the heroes and ex-heroes, except Dr. Manhattan, who has ''actual'' superpowers. Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias is the most obvious, complete with actual Atlas-like bodybuilding fliers and programs and brochures and he even does the ultimate Atlas-style at the end, the BulletCatch. Incidentally, this is one comic book trope and Silver Age shtick that is more or less played straight in the comics and not subject to any mockery, even if it is blatantly unrealistic and parodied in other comics which note that maintaining HeroicBuild, and remaining in permanent fighting conditions would not be realistically possible for someone with Rorscharch's malnutrition, leave alone Adrian Veidt's impossible Silver Age Doc Savage feats.


Added DiffLines:

* ConspicuousConsumption: Part of Adrian Veidt's soft power is weaponizing this. He runs companies that sell consumer products like perfumes (such as Nostalgia), as well as merchandise based on his own career as a hero and fitness expert. The appendix of the penultimate issue has one of his employees pitching him plans to merchandize the Crime Busters which Veidt considers before vetoing because he has a ''[[EvilPlan hunch]]'' that superheroes won't be of demand and interest for a while. Incidentally, he predicts a baby boom after the Squid Apocalypse and the Cold War ending GenghisGambit, so he tells his company to invest and buy baby products and child care.
10th Apr '17 10:48:29 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* UnbuiltTrope: Even though it started UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, this comic really reads like a deconstruction of the very things it inspired. Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan, and the Comedian are all the exact kind of grim, dark anti-heroes that arose in the 90's but this is not portrayed as a positive thing at all. Rorschach and Comedian are sociopathic lunatics who are hated and feared by many and Manhattan is a fatalistic and emotionless person whose behavior causes his personal life to fall to pieces.

to:

* UnbuiltTrope: Even though it started UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, this comic really reads reads, in retrospect, like a deconstruction of the very things it inspired. inspired.
**
Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan, and the Comedian are all the exact kind of grim, dark anti-heroes that arose in the 90's but this is not portrayed as a positive thing at all. Rorschach and Comedian are sociopathic lunatics who are hated and feared by many and Manhattan is a fatalistic and emotionless person whose behavior causes his personal life to fall to pieces. Moore's point was that neurotic and complex human shades [[RealityEnsues would make superheroes relatable but also unstable and non-functional]] while his copycats saw it as [[DramaticallyMissingThePoint an attempt to make superheroes cool]].
** Indeed the most functional and effective characters in the entire story are more or less the ones who are most like the classic Silver Age characters. Dan Dreiberg, the BoringButPractical Blue Beetle knock off is a far better detective than Rorscharch, and his equipment is the one that busts Rorscharch out of jail and takes them to the Arctic. Likewise, Ozymandias is more or less a classic pulp Doc Savage type character, whose CharlesAtlasSuperpower is not subject to any {{Deconstruction}} at all, and is used for drama when it makes him an utterly undefeatable villain (on whom Rorscharch cannot land a punch).
10th Apr '17 10:37:37 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The reason for this is that Veidt was playing to Rorschach's paranoia, letting Rorschach believe there was a maskkiller by making one. Otherwise, Rorschach might have spent more time looking into the Comedian's ramblings to Moloch, and found the real plot in time to stop it.



* MoralityKitchenSink: Each of the major characters is based around a different system of morality, and the conflict between these different moral outlooks drives much of the story. The Comedian is a Nihilist who sees the world as nothing but a joke, and just doesn't care about right or wrong, Rorschach is an Objectivist and a moral absolutist, incapable of seeing the world in any terms other than Black and White, Dr. Manhattan is so alienated from the human experience that the very concept of morality escapes him, and Ozymandias follows a Utilitarian moral code, in which even the most evil acts act be justified if they serve the greater good.

to:

* MoralityKitchenSink: Each of the major characters is based around a can be said to represent different system of attitudes to morality, and part of the conflict between these different comes from their competing moral outlooks drives much of the story. outlooks, and their successes and failures in living up to it in any meaningful fashion:
**
The Comedian is a Nihilist who sees the world as nothing but a joke, and just doesn't care about right or wrong, Rorschach is an Objectivist and a moral absolutist, incapable of seeing absolutist who refuses to see the world in any terms other than Black and White, Dr. Manhattan is so alienated from the human experience that the very concept of morality escapes him, and Ozymandias follows favors an overall utilitarian liberal ideal of doing good to build a Utilitarian better society. While Laurie and Dan Dreiberg are more grounded everyman types who more or less don't act out or impose a moral code, in which even view on the world.
** Ultimately none of them are truly consistent, or can be truly consistent, to their ideas. The Comedian's facade of cynicism shatters utterly and he turns out to be a lonely, self-loathing wreck who is truly pathetic on the inside. Dr. Manhattan,
the most evil acts act be seemingly misanthropic of the superheroes, gives the ultimate HumansAreSpecial speech in the book. Ozymandias and Rorscharch exchange places as the story follows: they at first see each other as being a guilty liberal (Ozymandias) and a fascist (Rorscharch) but the morally absolute Rorscharch, who once justified if they serve Harry Truman's UsefulNotes/AtomicBombingsOfHiroshimaAndNagasaki, is stunned when Ozymandias launches a similarly brutal attack using the greater good.same justification. This time Rorscharch takes the opposite tack and denounces this action, willing to die rather than uphold this facade.
1st Apr '17 8:42:55 PM DustSnitch
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* MeaningfulName: Ozymandias, which suggests the final fate of his "better, more loving world". His last name, Veidt, comes from German actor Conrad Veidt, whose appearance in ''TheManWhoLaughs'' directly inspired the character design of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker.
** Also Jon Osterman: "Oester" is a pagan fertility festival that was replaced by [[{{Jesus}} Easter]].

to:

* MeaningfulName: MeaningfulName:
**
Ozymandias, which suggests the final fate of his "better, more loving world". His last name, Veidt, comes from German actor Conrad Veidt, whose appearance in ''TheManWhoLaughs'' directly inspired the character design of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker.
ComicBook/TheJoker.
** Also Jon Osterman: "Oester" is a pagan fertility festival that was replaced by [[{{Jesus}} [[UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} Easter]].
31st Mar '17 7:45:40 PM Doug86
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* {{Expy}}: When Creator/AlanMoore began work on the book, the plan was to use all of the characters DC purchased from CharltonComics, but editors ultimately put the kibosh on that, so he had to create new ones.

to:

* {{Expy}}: When Creator/AlanMoore began work on the book, the plan was to use all of the characters DC purchased from CharltonComics, Creator/CharltonComics, but editors ultimately put the kibosh on that, so he had to create new ones.
5th Mar '17 5:41:51 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In ''Watchmen'', superhero comics died off after the 'real thing' started emerging -- instead, horror and drama comics are all the rage, D.C. and E.C. mainly publish stories about pirates, and Timely/Atlas Comics does not appear to have become MarvelComics, as it did in our world. It is implied in one article that Frederick Wertham's anti-comics campaigns were ignored due to the propaganda value of American costumed heroes being promoted in print; ironically, this prevents the genericisation of the American comics industry that happened after Wertham in real life, and the superhero genre eventually dies a natural death.

to:

** In ''Watchmen'', superhero comics died off after the 'real thing' started emerging -- instead, horror and drama comics are all the rage, D.C. and E.C. mainly publish stories about pirates, and Timely/Atlas Comics does not appear to have become MarvelComics, Creator/MarvelComics, as it did in our world. It is implied in one article that Frederick Wertham's anti-comics campaigns were ignored due to the propaganda value of American costumed heroes being promoted in print; ironically, this prevents the genericisation of the American comics industry that happened after Wertham in real life, and the superhero genre eventually dies a natural death.
15th Feb '17 11:45:38 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].

to:

** Ozymandias and The Comedian discuss this during the first (and only) meeting of the Crimebusters. Ozymandias wants to form a professional crime fighting group to shut down all crime but the Comedian notes that it's ridiculous and pointless in the shadow of the nuclear bomb and so long as none of them have a solution to deal with that, such crime-fighting is meaningless kid's stuff. [[spoiler:Ozymandias sees The Comedian's comments as illustrating that a true superhero's capacity has to grow and expand to properly "save the world" and so abandons conventional superheroism outwardly while still committing himself to save the world by becoming a corporate magnate, scientist and WellIntentionedExtremist. Some would say that Ozymandias has undergone MotiveDecay but Ozy would insist that conventional heroes have to grow up to better tackle problems of the adult world of geopolitics, commerce and mass media]].media. Indeed, when Nite Owl and Rorscharch meet Veidt in his lair, he is wearing his old superhero costume rather than the civilian clothing he had been wearing throughout the comic, which suggests that in his mind he sees his actions as superheroic even if it appears the contrary to his ex-Crimebusters]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 498. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=ComicBook.Watchmen