History CelebrityParadox / Literature

17th May '17 5:00:15 PM DPsycho
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* An interesting example is Scott Ciencin's junior novel ''Jurassic Park: Flyers'', that ties in to the ''Film/JurassicParkIII'' film. At the end of the film, a family of Pteranodons are seen flying off into the sunset. The book reveals that they have made their home at the Universal Studios theme park in Orlando, Florida. Did the Pteranodons bump into the animatronics that populate the Jurassic Park River Adventure ride? Were they confused by them? Dr Alan Grant and Eric Kirby were invited to the theme park to speak about their experiences from the movie. Did they recommend that their audience by the [=DVDs=] of the first two movies to get up to speed?

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* An interesting example is Scott Ciencin's junior novel ''Jurassic Park: Flyers'', that ties in to the ''Film/JurassicParkIII'' film. At the end of the film, a family of Pteranodons are seen flying off into the sunset. The book reveals that they have made their home at the Universal Studios theme park in Orlando, Florida. Did the Pteranodons bump into the animatronics that populate the Jurassic Park River Adventure ride? Were they confused by them? Dr Alan Grant and Eric Kirby were invited to the theme park to speak about their experiences from the movie. Did they recommend that their audience by buy the [=DVDs=] of the first two movies to get up to speed?
6th Mar '17 5:57:58 PM eowynjedi
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* In Creator/MichaelConnelly novel ''Literature/TheDrop'', Literature/HarryBosch's daughter mentions watching the TV show ''Series/{{Castle}}''. Since Connelly has had a couple of cameos AsHimself on ''Castle'', one must wonder if the Bosch novels exist in the Bosch universe.

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* In Creator/MichaelConnelly novel ''Literature/TheDrop'', Literature/HarryBosch's daughter mentions watching the TV show ''Series/{{Castle}}''. Since Connelly has had a couple of cameos AsHimself on ''Castle'', one must wonder if the Bosch novels exist in the Bosch universe.universe.
* C. S. Forester named the character ''Literature/HoratioHornblower'' after Horatio Nelson, but nobody in the books ever points out the coincidence. Not when Hornblower is leading Nelson's funeral procession by boat, and not when his first lieutenant ''directly compares'' him to Nelson.
7th Feb '17 10:10:36 AM erforce
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--> "....it's probably the most interesting philosophical question ever asked about film grammar. Could Creator/HarrisonFord's character in ''Film/WhatLiesBeneath'' rent ''Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk''? Could [[{{Rambo}} John Rambo]] draw personal inspiration from ''Film/{{Rocky}}''? In ''Film/DesperatelySeekingSusan'', what is Music/{{Madonna}} hearing when she goes to a club and dances to her own song? Within the reality of one specific fiction, how do other fictions exist?

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--> "....it's probably the most interesting philosophical question ever asked about film grammar. Could Creator/HarrisonFord's character in ''Film/WhatLiesBeneath'' rent ''Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk''? Could [[{{Rambo}} [[Franchise/{{Rambo}} John Rambo]] draw personal inspiration from ''Film/{{Rocky}}''? In ''Film/DesperatelySeekingSusan'', what is Music/{{Madonna}} hearing when she goes to a club and dances to her own song? Within the reality of one specific fiction, how do other fictions exist?
19th Jan '17 4:24:02 AM Morgenthaler
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* Disputed in the CthulhuMythos: orthodox fans (as well as the game TabletopGame/CallOfCthulhu) assume that Howard P. Lovecraft is absent from this universe, but in a move that would be controversial in hindsight, August Derleth made Lovecraft a character in the Mythos. Fan consensus dismisses Derleth's idea.

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* Disputed in the CthulhuMythos: Franchise/CthulhuMythos: orthodox fans (as well as the game TabletopGame/CallOfCthulhu) assume that Howard P. Lovecraft is absent from this universe, but in a move that would be controversial in hindsight, August Derleth made Lovecraft a character in the Mythos. Fan consensus dismisses Derleth's idea.
4th Dec '16 5:03:03 PM jamespolk
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* ''Literature/ThePoet'' is a mystery thriller written by Creator/MichaelConnelly, starring IntrepidReporter Jack [=McEvoy=]. Later Connelly novels ''Literature/TheNarrows'' and ''Literature/TheScarecrow'' establish that in-universe, ''The Poet'' is a non-fiction true crime book written by [=McEvoy=].

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* ''Literature/ThePoet'' is a mystery thriller written by Creator/MichaelConnelly, starring IntrepidReporter Jack [=McEvoy=]. Later In Creator/MichaelConnelly novel ''Literature/TheDrop'', Literature/HarryBosch's daughter mentions watching the TV show ''Series/{{Castle}}''. Since Connelly has had a couple of cameos AsHimself on ''Castle'', one must wonder if the Bosch novels ''Literature/TheNarrows'' and ''Literature/TheScarecrow'' establish that in-universe, ''The Poet'' is a non-fiction true crime book written by [=McEvoy=].exist in the Bosch universe.
26th Oct '16 8:47:14 PM PaulA
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* There is a ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' / ''Comicbook/{{X-Men}}'' crossover novel by PeterDavid that has Picard meeting Xavier. The resemblance they have to each other is noted. [[HilariousInHindsight It was written before the X-Men movies]].

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* There is a ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' / ''Comicbook/{{X-Men}}'' crossover novel by PeterDavid Creator/PeterDavid that has Picard meeting Xavier. The resemblance they have to each other is noted. [[HilariousInHindsight It was written before the X-Men movies]].
2nd Sep '16 7:09:11 AM Malady
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* The ''Virgil Tibbs'' series by John Ball (which began with ''In the Heat of the Night'') used a variant of the literary agent hypothesis. In ''The Great Detectives'', edited by Otto Penzler, in which various creators of detective series contributed short articles on their creations (e.g. Chester Gould on Dick Tracy, Walter Gibson on the Shadow, etc.), John Ball took the literary agent hypothesis for his article on Virgil Tibbs. He writes "Ms. Diane Stone, secretary to Chief Robert [=McGowan=] of the Pasadena Police Department, was on the phone. "The chief has approved the release to you of the details concerning the Morales murder" she told me. He has authorized you to go ahead with it at any time, if you want to." Of course I wanted to: the unraveling of the case via the patient, intelligent investigation work of the department in general, and Virgil Tibbs in particular, would need no embellishment in the telling. As I always do in such instances, I called Virgil and suggested a meeting. Two nights later we sat down to dine together in one of Pasadena's very fine restaurants........By the time that the main course had been put down in front of us we had gone over the Morales case in detail and Virgil had filled me in on several points which had not previously been made public. As always, I agreed to publish nothing until the department had read the manuscript and had given it an official approval. This procedure helped to eliminate possible errors and also made sure that I had not unintentionally included information which was still confidential." Later Tibbs says "I have a letter from Otto Penzler" I said. Virgil nodded recognition. "The co-author with Steinbrunner of The Encyclopedia of Mystery and Detection? I have a copy." "Otto has asked me for a piece about your background. How much may I tell him?" I should insert a footnote here. Virgil Tibbs is basically a quiet, self-effacing man....He has mentioned to me more than once that my accounts of some of his cases have proved somewhat embarrassing to him. However, Chief [=McGowan=] feels that these books help explain the police function to the citizenry at large and to show how modern, enlightened police departments function."
* The Parker (featuring a ruthless thief) and Dortmunder (featuring a bumbling thief) series (both Donald Westlake, with the former series under the pen name Richard Stark) present a convoluted case. Namely, the Dortmunder novel ''Jimmy the Kid'' established that, in Dortmunder's world, Parker did not exist, and only represented a fictional creation of that world's counterpart of Donald Westlake. In ''Jimmy the Kid'', Dortmunder uses a novel called ''Child Heist'', by Richard Stark, one of Stark's series of novels about a hard-boiled crook named Parker, as a blueprint for how to run a kidnapping. However, Richard Stark is, in real life, as noted, the pseudonym under which Westlake writes the Parker novels. There wasn't a separate novel called ''Child Heist'' in real life, either. Anyway, the kidnapping falls apart and the kid in question, Jimmy, who's kind of a film buff, goes on to make a movie about his experience. There's a chapter at the end of the novel where Richard Stark (no mention of his real name as Westlake in the letter, by the way) and his lawyers are sending each other letters speculating about the possibility of suing the kid for using the plot of ''Child Heist'' in the movie. (The lawyer says no, he can make a movie about his experiences, but Stark can try suing the crooks if he can find them.) This would seem to suggest, that obviously, Dortmunder novels do not exist in Dortmunder's universe, and, as noted, Parker only existed in fiction in Dortmunders' world. However, in the first Dortmunder novel, ''The Hot Rock'', published in 1970, one of the members of Dortmunder's crew, Alan Greenwood, is forced to change his last name after his arrest. We learn in the book's penultimate chapter that he now uses the name Alan Grofield.

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* The ''Virgil Tibbs'' ''Series/VirgilTibbs'' series by John Ball (which began with ''In the Heat of the Night'') used a variant of the literary agent hypothesis. In ''The Great Detectives'', edited by Otto Penzler, in which various creators of detective series contributed short articles on their creations (e.g. Chester Gould on Dick Tracy, Walter Gibson on the Shadow, etc.), John Ball took the literary agent hypothesis for his article on Virgil Tibbs. He writes "Ms. Diane Stone, secretary to Chief Robert [=McGowan=] of the Pasadena Police Department, was on the phone. "The chief has approved the release to you of the details concerning the Morales murder" she told me. He has authorized you to go ahead with it at any time, if you want to." Of course I wanted to: the unraveling of the case via the patient, intelligent investigation work of the department in general, and Virgil Tibbs in particular, would need no embellishment in the telling. As I always do in such instances, I called Virgil and suggested a meeting. Two nights later we sat down to dine together in one of Pasadena's very fine restaurants........By the time that the main course had been put down in front of us we had gone over the Morales case in detail and Virgil had filled me in on several points which had not previously been made public. As always, I agreed to publish nothing until the department had read the manuscript and had given it an official approval. This procedure helped to eliminate possible errors and also made sure that I had not unintentionally included information which was still confidential." Later Tibbs says "I have a letter from Otto Penzler" I said. Virgil nodded recognition. "The co-author with Steinbrunner of The Encyclopedia of Mystery and Detection? I have a copy." "Otto has asked me for a piece about your background. How much may I tell him?" I should insert a footnote here. Virgil Tibbs is basically a quiet, self-effacing man....He has mentioned to me more than once that my accounts of some of his cases have proved somewhat embarrassing to him. However, Chief [=McGowan=] feels that these books help explain the police function to the citizenry at large and to show how modern, enlightened police departments function."
* The Parker (featuring a ruthless thief) and Dortmunder (featuring a bumbling thief) series (both Donald Westlake, Creator/DonaldWestlake, with the former series under the pen name Richard Stark) present a convoluted case. Namely, the Dortmunder novel ''Jimmy the Kid'' established that, in Dortmunder's world, Parker did not exist, and only represented a fictional creation of that world's counterpart of Donald Westlake. In ''Jimmy the Kid'', Dortmunder uses a novel called ''Child Heist'', by Richard Stark, one of Stark's series of novels about a hard-boiled crook named Parker, as a blueprint for how to run a kidnapping. However, Richard Stark is, in real life, as noted, the pseudonym under which Westlake writes the Parker novels. There wasn't a separate novel called ''Child Heist'' in real life, either. Anyway, the kidnapping falls apart and the kid in question, Jimmy, who's kind of a film buff, goes on to make a movie about his experience. There's a chapter at the end of the novel where Richard Stark (no mention of his real name as Westlake in the letter, by the way) and his lawyers are sending each other letters speculating about the possibility of suing the kid for using the plot of ''Child Heist'' in the movie. (The lawyer says no, he can make a movie about his experiences, but Stark can try suing the crooks if he can find them.) This would seem to suggest, that obviously, Dortmunder novels do not exist in Dortmunder's universe, and, as noted, Parker only existed in fiction in Dortmunders' world. However, in the first Dortmunder novel, ''The Hot Rock'', published in 1970, one of the members of Dortmunder's crew, Alan Greenwood, is forced to change his last name after his arrest. We learn in the book's penultimate chapter that he now uses the name Alan Grofield.



* In the novel ''Psycho II'', Norman Bates flees the asylum when he hears that [[Film/{{Psycho}} a film of his murder of Mary Crane]] has started filming. In the book ''Ed Gein -- Psycho!!'' by Paul A. Woods, the author Robert Bloch stated that ''Psycho II'' takes place in a universe where Alfred Hitchcock never made his film adaptation.

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* In the novel ''Psycho ''Literature/{{Psycho}} II'', Norman Bates flees the asylum when he hears that [[Film/{{Psycho}} a film of his murder of Mary Crane]] has started filming. In the book ''Ed Gein -- Psycho!!'' by Paul A. Woods, the author Robert Bloch stated that ''Psycho II'' takes place in a universe where Alfred Hitchcock never made his film adaptation.



* Somewhat subverted in John Ajvide Lindqvist's serial ''Tindalos''. The protagonist in the story is haunted by the horrifying chewing sounds made by a time-twisting EldritchAbomination. She instinctively knows the entity to be named 'Tindalos' which implies that the story takes place in the universe of the CthulhuMythos. At one point in the story hovever, she stumbles over and reads Frank Belknap Long's short-story ''The Hounds of Tindalos'', implying that the story takes place in a world were the the CthulhuMythos is (falsely) considered fictional.

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* Somewhat subverted in John Ajvide Lindqvist's serial ''Tindalos''.''Literature/{{Tindalos}}''. The protagonist in the story is haunted by the horrifying chewing sounds made by a time-twisting EldritchAbomination. She instinctively knows the entity to be named 'Tindalos' which implies that the story takes place in the universe of the CthulhuMythos. At one point in the story hovever, she stumbles over and reads Frank Belknap Long's short-story ''The Hounds of Tindalos'', implying that the story takes place in a world were the the CthulhuMythos is (falsely) considered fictional.
23rd Jul '16 2:25:40 PM nombretomado
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* The novel ''Literature/{{Glamorama}}'' by BretEastonEllis has a [[TheCameo cameo]] by [[Literature/AmericanPsycho Patrick Bateman]] at a party that one of the characters is throwing. On the list of various celebrities who are said to be attending the same party, none other then Creator/ChristianBale is on the list, who played Patrick Bateman in the film adaptation of ''American Psycho''. To be fair, Glamorama did come out a few years before that movie was released, so the author probably didn't intend for this to happen, but it's still a jarring coincidence.

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* The novel ''Literature/{{Glamorama}}'' by BretEastonEllis Creator/BretEastonEllis has a [[TheCameo cameo]] by [[Literature/AmericanPsycho Patrick Bateman]] at a party that one of the characters is throwing. On the list of various celebrities who are said to be attending the same party, none other then Creator/ChristianBale is on the list, who played Patrick Bateman in the film adaptation of ''American Psycho''. To be fair, Glamorama did come out a few years before that movie was released, so the author probably didn't intend for this to happen, but it's still a jarring coincidence.
16th Jun '16 7:57:53 PM PaulA
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** Another example, is the problem of how to deal with Creator/ArthurConanDoyle in a universe where Franchise/SherlockHolmes is a real person. A common idea is making him a {{literary agent|hypothesis}}, but if that was true, he likely wouldn't be as wealthy and famous in that universe as in reality. Another idea is to have one of his other lesser known characters have become incredibly popular.

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** * Another example, is the problem of how to deal with Creator/ArthurConanDoyle in a universe where Franchise/SherlockHolmes is a real person. A common idea is making him a {{literary agent|hypothesis}}, but if that was true, he likely wouldn't be as wealthy and famous in that universe as in reality. Another idea is to have one of his other lesser known characters have become incredibly popular.
16th Jun '16 7:57:30 PM PaulA
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* Arguably, this can occur in literature when characters are based around real people. For example, in Creator/AnthonyTrollope's ''Palliser'' series, there are characters clearly based on real people like Gladstone and Disraeli, but on at least one occasion, the real people were referenced. Another example, is the problem of how to deal with Creator/ArthurConanDoyle in a universe where SherlockHolmes is a real person. A common idea is making him a {{literary agent|hypothesis}}, but if that was true, he likely wouldn't be as wealthy and famous in that universe as in reality.
** Another idea is to have one of his other lesser known characters have become incredibly popular.

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* Arguably, this can occur in literature when characters are based around real people. For example, in Creator/AnthonyTrollope's ''Palliser'' ''Literature/{{Palliser}}'' series, there are characters clearly based on real people like Gladstone UsefulNotes/WilliamGladstone and Disraeli, UsefulNotes/BenjaminDisraeli, but on at least one occasion, the real people were referenced. referenced.
**
Another example, is the problem of how to deal with Creator/ArthurConanDoyle in a universe where SherlockHolmes Franchise/SherlockHolmes is a real person. A common idea is making him a {{literary agent|hypothesis}}, but if that was true, he likely wouldn't be as wealthy and famous in that universe as in reality.
**
reality. Another idea is to have one of his other lesser known characters have become incredibly popular.
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