History BrokenAesop / VideoGames

18th Jun '17 12:17:29 AM Chytus
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* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in the message is that the game treats defeating monsters as horrible, but many of them are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul so that Asgore can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing to hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]
** Another aesop is that actions have consequences. There is a double standard caused by the aesop because the monsters do not actually need to face the consequences of killing the human child since they have the ability to reset after death and thus undoing their murder.
17th Jun '17 1:42:50 PM ninjacreeper48
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* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in the message is that the game treats defeating monsters as horrible, but many of them are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul so that Asgore can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]

to:

* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in the message is that the game treats defeating monsters as horrible, but many of them are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul so that Asgore can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing to hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]
17th Jun '17 1:39:46 PM ninjacreeper48
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* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul so that Asgore can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]

to:

* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in that the message is that many of the game treats defeating monsters as horrible, but many of them are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul so that Asgore can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]
17th Jun '17 12:56:47 PM ninjacreeper48
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* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:to harness their soul to allow Asgore the ability to wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]

to:

* One of the aesops in ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child]] [[spoiler:to [[spoiler:in order to harness their soul to allow so that Asgore the ability to can wage war on humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]
17th Jun '17 12:50:26 PM ninjacreeper48
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* One of the aesops in ''VideoGame/Undertale" is that violence is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to hurt and/or kill a child to harness their soul to allow Asgore the ability to wage war on humanity. While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of Mt. Ebott. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that she remains hostile even after you spare her and even if you continue a Pacifist run (until you befriend her of course) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense.

to:

* One of the aesops in ''VideoGame/Undertale" ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' is that violence fighting is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to [[WouldHurtAChild hurt and/or kill a child to child]] [[spoiler:to harness their soul to allow Asgore the ability to wage war on humanity. humanity.]] While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of Mt. Ebott.the Underground. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that [[UngratefulBastard she remains hostile even after you spare her her]] and even if you continue a Pacifist run (until ([[spoiler:until you befriend her of course) course]]) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense.self-defense [[spoiler:assuming they don't know that saving also exists in-universe.]]
17th Jun '17 12:23:34 PM ninjacreeper48
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Added DiffLines:

* One of the aesops in ''VideoGame/Undertale" is that violence is not the answer. A major flaw in that message is that many of the monsters are willing to hurt and/or kill a child to harness their soul to allow Asgore the ability to wage war on humanity. While some monsters do not realize that their 'attacks' are harmful, it's not the case with all of them. Toriel (who did not want to kill the human child) was willing hurt them to near-death with fire magic in order to stop them from leaving the Ruins and finding a way out of Mt. Ebott. Papyrus also wanted to hurt the child for the personal gain of joining the Royal Guards. Undyne tried to hunt down and kill the child even if you save the Monster Kid from falling off the bridge in front of her. The fact that she remains hostile even after you spare her and even if you continue a Pacifist run (until you befriend her of course) may also make her lose some sympathy, as it may make her look stubborn in her hatred and ungrateful. Knight-Knight and Madjick are explicitly stated to be mercenaries hired by Mettaton, meaning they're willing to kill a child for profit! These reasons could give players good reasons for fighting in self-defense.
** Another aesop is that actions have consequences. There is a double standard caused by the aesop because the monsters do not actually need to face the consequences of killing the human child since they have the ability to reset after death and thus undoing their murder.
17th Jun '17 6:39:08 AM mario0987
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* ''Franchise/AceAttorney'':
** The entire series often tells us that the ends never justify the means. This is even repeated often enough to the point of being ArcWords of Case 3 of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. Granted, we do see several examples of AmoralAttorney, DirtyCop, HangingJudge, etc. However, there are also just as many instances where someone has no choice but to use said "means" to save the day. In the very first game, Mia Fey is forced to blackmail Redd White into turning himself in, as he just has too much money and influence to be taken down cleanly. And later games show main protagonists like Miles Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright ultimately being forced to resort to illegal evidence to take down villains who are similarly "above the law". The idea of "the end justifies the means" as it's used in Turnabout Academy seems as if it's related to the idea of achieving a desirable outcome by using underhanded methods for one's own personal gain, rather then the broad idea of using illegal methods. This is demonstrated by the acts of the case's main villain along with a speech that Athena gives to him, where she says that his desire to use any means to twist the truth towards his selfish goals makes him the very embodiment of "the dark age of the law". The case's use of pushing the saying "the end justifies the means" as toxic is the primary problem, as that phrase alone does not really convey the point the game was trying to put across.

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* ''Franchise/AceAttorney'':
** The entire series
''Franchise/AceAttorney'' often tells us that the ends never justify the means. This is even repeated often enough to the point of being ArcWords of Case 3 of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. Granted, we do see several examples of AmoralAttorney, DirtyCop, HangingJudge, etc. However, there are also just as many instances where someone has no choice but to use said "means" to save the day. In the very first game, Mia Fey is forced to blackmail Redd White into turning himself in, as he just has too much money and influence to be taken down cleanly. And later games show main protagonists like Miles Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright ultimately being forced to resort to illegal evidence to take down villains who are similarly "above the law". The idea of "the end justifies the means" as it's used in Turnabout Academy seems as if it's related to the idea of achieving a desirable outcome by using underhanded methods for one's own personal gain, rather then the broad idea of using illegal methods. This is demonstrated by the acts of the case's main villain along with a speech that Athena gives to him, where she says that his desire to use any means to twist the truth towards his selfish goals makes him the very embodiment of "the dark age of the law". The case's use of pushing the saying "the end justifies the means" as toxic is the primary problem, as that phrase alone does not really convey the point the game was trying to put across.


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** It should also be noted that the moral is never "Don't use strong Pokémon" but "Use Pokémon because you want to use them regardless of strength". If you happen to want to use strong Pokémon because you like them then the moral stands, it gets broken if the reason you want to use them is because they are strong.
19th May '17 9:20:33 PM nowaymanguy
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** The entire series often tells us that the ends never justify the means. This is even repeated often enough to the point of being ArcWords of Case 3 of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. Granted, we do see several examples of AmoralAttorney, DirtyCop, HangingJudge, etc. However, there are also just as many instances where someone has no choice but to use said "means" to save the day. In the very first game, Mia Fey is forced to blackmail Redd White into turning himself in, as he just has too much money and influence to be taken down cleanly. And later games show main protagonists like Miles Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright ultimately being forced to resort to illegal evidence to take down villains who are similarly "above the law". Even civilian characters are ultimately driven to vigilantism out of desperation to subvert various MiscarriageOfJustice cases that all "pure" methods have failed to correct (e.g., Katherine Hall having to attempt a VigilanteExecution for enough scrutiny to get her wrongly convicted ParentalSubstitute acquitted before the statute of limitations expires on his case, Simon Keyes having to resort to pretty much the same against multiple corrupt officials out for his head, Aura Blackquill having to take hostages to force a retrial for her wrongly convicted brother before he can be executed, etc.).
** ExecutiveMeddling in ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'' broke initially intact aesop from ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyTrialsAndTribulations''. The message in the game was that even if something is broken it can be rebuilt, better than before. This is brought up mostly in context of relationships between [[HappilyMarried Ron and Dessie]] and Phoenix and [[spoiler: [[NewOldFlame Iris]]]](with broken and rebuilt urn thrown in for symbolism). The second relationship was initially based on a lie, and the game ends with them seemingly coming back together with no more lies between them. If Phoenix's story ended here and now [[WhatCouldHaveBeen as was initially planned]] the Aesop would've remained intact. However the next game brought Phoenix back while almost outright stating that he's not in relationship with anyone[[labelnote: details]] His adoptive daughter Trucy said a few times that he needs to find her "a new mommy" which wouldn't make sense if he was with someone[[/labelnote]] so he and [[spoiler: Iris]] either broke up again in the meantime or never reconciled in the first place, either way the rebuilt relationship didn't work after all.
** ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'' breaks it's own moral too. The primary theme of the game is that the current justice system is terrible and in need of a major change. This change comes at the end of the game with the implementation of a jury. The trouble is that the system uses a computer that can show the jurors evidence and conversations that are not present during the trials, including one piece of evidence that is specifically stated to not be admissible in court and the conversations rig the case in favour of the defence far more than they really should. Also, Phoenix is clearly using the system to bring an old adversary to justice and clear his name for using forged evidence, giving him a personal stake. Finally, [[AbortedArc the jury system is never mentioned again after this game.]]

to:

** The entire series often tells us that the ends never justify the means. This is even repeated often enough to the point of being ArcWords of Case 3 of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. Granted, we do see several examples of AmoralAttorney, DirtyCop, HangingJudge, etc. However, there are also just as many instances where someone has no choice but to use said "means" to save the day. In the very first game, Mia Fey is forced to blackmail Redd White into turning himself in, as he just has too much money and influence to be taken down cleanly. And later games show main protagonists like Miles Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright ultimately being forced to resort to illegal evidence to take down villains who are similarly "above the law". Even civilian characters are ultimately driven The idea of "the end justifies the means" as it's used in Turnabout Academy seems as if it's related to vigilantism out the idea of desperation to subvert various MiscarriageOfJustice cases that all "pure" achieving a desirable outcome by using underhanded methods have failed to correct (e.g., Katherine Hall having to attempt a VigilanteExecution for enough scrutiny to get her wrongly convicted ParentalSubstitute acquitted before one's own personal gain, rather then the statute broad idea of limitations expires on using illegal methods. This is demonstrated by the acts of the case's main villain along with a speech that Athena gives to him, where she says that his case, Simon Keyes having desire to resort use any means to pretty much twist the same against multiple corrupt officials out for truth towards his head, Aura Blackquill having to take hostages to force a retrial for her wrongly convicted brother before he can be executed, etc.).
** ExecutiveMeddling in ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'' broke initially intact aesop from ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyTrialsAndTribulations''.
selfish goals makes him the very embodiment of "the dark age of the law". The message in case's use of pushing the saying "the end justifies the means" as toxic is the primary problem, as that phrase alone does not really convey the point the game was that even if something is broken it can be rebuilt, better than before. This is brought up mostly in context of relationships between [[HappilyMarried Ron and Dessie]] and Phoenix and [[spoiler: [[NewOldFlame Iris]]]](with broken and rebuilt urn thrown in for symbolism). The second relationship was initially based on a lie, and the game ends with them seemingly coming back together with no more lies between them. If Phoenix's story ended here and now [[WhatCouldHaveBeen as was initially planned]] the Aesop would've remained intact. However the next game brought Phoenix back while almost outright stating that he's not in relationship with anyone[[labelnote: details]] His adoptive daughter Trucy said a few times that he needs trying to find her "a new mommy" which wouldn't make sense if he was with someone[[/labelnote]] so he and [[spoiler: Iris]] either broke up again in the meantime or never reconciled in the first place, either way the rebuilt relationship didn't work after all.
** ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'' breaks it's own moral too. The primary theme of the game is that the current justice system is terrible and in need of a major change. This change comes at the end of the game with the implementation of a jury. The trouble is that the system uses a computer that can show the jurors evidence and conversations that are not present during the trials, including one piece of evidence that is specifically stated to not be admissible in court and the conversations rig the case in favour of the defence far more than they really should. Also, Phoenix is clearly using the system to bring an old adversary to justice and clear his name for using forged evidence, giving him a personal stake. Finally, [[AbortedArc the jury system is never mentioned again after this game.]]
put across.
16th Apr '17 4:59:30 PM Kadorhal
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*** Which is made worse at the end of the game, when [[spoiler:Alicia]] chooses to completely abandon her Valkyria powers, solely because of the stress the InternalizedCategorism was putting on her. So, racism is bad, but if you're from a bad race, it's better to just pretend you're not and act like everyone else. [[ValuesDissonance Can you tell this game was made in Japan?]]

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*** Which is made worse at the end of the game, when [[spoiler:Alicia]] chooses to completely abandon her Valkyria powers, solely because of the stress the InternalizedCategorism was putting on her. So, racism is bad, bad... but there are still bad races anyway, and if you're from a bad race, one of them, it's better to just pretend you're not and act like everyone else. [[ValuesDissonance Can you tell this game was made in Japan?]]



** [[DesignatedEvil Faldio]] is imprisoned for committing treason by awakening [[spoiler:Alicia]]'s Valkyria powers because doing so required her to have a near-death experience, so he shot her. Later, he apologizes for believing that power is the key to victory [[spoiler:and dies in order to [[DeathEqualsRedemption prove his sincerity]]]], driving home any of the game's anti-war aesops. But if he ''hadn't'' done it, Selvaria would have completely obliterated the army ''and'' the militia, and conquered Gallia in time for tea and ''thusly achieved victory for her side''-- he openly lampshades this at one point.
*** Faldio and Welkin had been friends for years, but when Faldio finally comes around to realizing that he was wrong (even if the events of the game prove he was right) and apologizes, [[spoiler: pointlessly kills himself]], Welkin and Alicia don't react to it any more than they reacted to Ghirlandaio. Friendship and unity, everybody!
*** On top of that, Faldio's big crime is, as stated by the game, believing in power instead of his friends... except not only did the power in question ''actually save the day'', he knew that that power ''belonged'' to one of his friends and his plan ''depended'' on her survival. The activation isn't pleasant by any means, but nothing about the situation meant he was actually choosing the one or the other. If anything, he knew he was risking his career ''because he believed in the power of his friends''.
*** There's another problem with condemning Faldio for believing in power instead of just trusting his friends to find a solution on their own: '''They never actually find a way to deal with Selvaria.''' She is eventually defeated, but that's because [[spoiler: she throws the fight and then kills herself to wipe out the Gallian military after she's captured.]] We're supposed to hate Faldio for not being open to ThePowerOfFriendship, but we're shown multiple times that the only thing that can stop a Valkyria... is a Valkyria.
** While it is pay for DLC, they actually portray one of the Gallian commanders as a heartless bastard by having him use a poison forbidden by their "Geneva convention" against his enemies, and after he loses the commander tells his higher ups that his squad had the poison used against them.

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** [[DesignatedEvil Faldio]] is imprisoned for committing treason by awakening [[spoiler:Alicia]]'s Valkyria powers because doing so required her to have a near-death experience, so he shot her. Later, he apologizes for believing that power is the key to victory [[spoiler:and dies in order to [[DeathEqualsRedemption prove his sincerity]]]], driving home any of the game's anti-war aesops. But if he ''hadn't'' done it, Selvaria would have completely obliterated the army ''and'' the militia, and conquered Gallia in time for tea and ''thusly achieved victory for her side''-- side'' -- he openly lampshades this at one point.
*** Faldio and Welkin had been friends for years, but when Faldio finally comes around to realizing that he was wrong (even if the events of the game prove he was right) and right), apologizes, [[spoiler: [[spoiler:and pointlessly kills himself]], Welkin and Alicia don't react to it any more than they reacted to Ghirlandaio. Friendship and unity, everybody!
*** On top of that, Faldio's big crime is, as stated by the game, believing in power instead of his friends... except not only did the power in question ''actually save the day'', he knew that that power ''belonged'' to one of his friends and his plan ''depended'' on her survival. The activation isn't pleasant by any means, but nothing about the situation meant he was actually choosing the one or the other. If anything, he knew he was risking his career ''because he believed in the power of '''of''' his friends''.
*** There's another problem with condemning Faldio for believing in power instead of just trusting his friends to find a solution on their own: '''They never actually find a way to deal with Selvaria.''' She is eventually defeated, but that's because [[spoiler: she [[spoiler:she throws the fight and then [[TakingYouWithMe kills herself to wipe out the Gallian military military]] after she's captured.]] We're supposed to hate Faldio for not being open to ThePowerOfFriendship, but we're shown multiple times that the only thing that can stop a Valkyria... is a Valkyria.
** While it is pay for pay-for DLC, they actually portray one of the Gallian commanders as a heartless bastard by having him use a poison forbidden by their "Geneva convention" equivalent of the Geneva convention against his enemies, and after he loses the commander loses, tells his higher ups that his squad had the poison used against them.''them''.



** The anti-racism Aesop is driven with the Darcsen being a fantasy counterpart to European Jews in its World War II pastiche, but the most prominent Darcsen character is written and designed to appeal to its original Japanese audience [[spoiler: in order to maximize the impact of her death]]. Appreciating other cultures and not judging them for being different is a lot easier when [[YamatoNadeshiko they embody your own culture's ideals!]].

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** The anti-racism Aesop is driven with the Darcsen being a fantasy counterpart to European Jews in its World War II pastiche, but the most prominent Darcsen character is written and designed to appeal to its original Japanese audience [[spoiler: in [[spoiler:in order to maximize the impact of her death]]. Appreciating other cultures and not judging them for being different is a lot easier when [[YamatoNadeshiko they embody your own culture's ideals!]].ideals instead!]]



* Creator/{{Godlimations}}' ''Vorago'' bases its story off of the Biblical description of Rapture, and has as its primary conflict a battle of ideals between a character who believes the apocalyptic events have a logical, scientific explanation and another who thinks it was prophesied by the Bible. As the creator of the game is a Christian organization, it seems reasonable to think that the latter would be correct... except the man who is portrayed as "in the right" (and indeed, the only confirmed Christian in the game period) is the ''villain'', who shoots two separate characters for disagreeing with his interpretation, tries to sexually assault the female main character and threatens a young child immediately after, and is so racist (brings up his problems with the Dutch completely out of the blue in the first conversation with him), intolerant (see the two shootings above), and preachy that he comes off as an amalgam of every religious strawman ever cooked up by an atheist writer.

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* Creator/{{Godlimations}}' ''Vorago'' bases its story off of the Biblical description of the Rapture, and has as its primary conflict a battle of ideals between a character who believes the apocalyptic events have a logical, scientific explanation and another who thinks it was prophesied by the Bible. As the creator of the game is a Christian organization, it seems reasonable to think that the latter would be correct... except the man who is portrayed as "in the right" (and indeed, the only confirmed Christian in the game period) is the ''villain'', who shoots two separate characters with little prompting (one for disagreeing with his interpretation, interpretation of what's going on, and another for having a problem with the first time), tries to sexually assault the female main character and threatens a young child immediately after, and is so racist (brings up his problems with the Dutch completely out of the blue in the first conversation with him), intolerant (see the two shootings above), and preachy that he comes off as an amalgam of every religious strawman ever cooked up by an atheist writer.



*** The full explanation is that Ted at the time was under a drug that made him act that way; the sanity call was from people trying to use ''current'' sanity as evidence that the previous insanity was caused by something else, since it's no longer present. But then it falls apart all over again as Ted continues to do extreme things like beating the player character to death for no reason whenever you fail the interview with him in the third part, escaping police custody, and holding you at gunpoint because he's "got nothing to lose" ("nothing" including '''''his still-hidden children whose disappearance inspired those atrocities'''''), all while in his normal state of mind. Add to that, he doesn't express any real regret for his past actions while under the drug, even going so far as to try to justify them as things anyone would have done at the time.
** The games often fail in their goal to teach you about negotiation, in the fact that nobody really comes to an agreement on anything, and you're mostly just telling people what they want to hear, or offering decisions that really make no sense. Episode 9 even allows you to sit back and let someone else do your work.

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*** The full explanation is that Ted at the time was under a drug that made him act that way; the sanity call was from people trying to use ''current'' sanity as evidence that the previous insanity was caused by something else, since it's no longer present. But then it falls apart all over again as Ted continues to do extreme things like beating the player character to death for no reason whenever you fail the interview with him in the third part, escaping police custody, custody multiple times (even if [[spoiler:people behind the scenes are deliberately letting him out - but even that's to pin their own crimes on him, because they ''know'' he'll take the option every time]]), and holding you at gunpoint because he's "got nothing to lose" ("nothing" including '''''his still-hidden children whose disappearance inspired those atrocities'''''), all while in his normal state of mind. Add to that, he doesn't express any real regret for his past actions while under the drug, even going so far as to try to justify them as things anyone would have done at the time.
** The games often fail in their goal to teach you about negotiation, in the fact that nobody really comes to an agreement on anything, and you're mostly just telling people what they want to hear, or offering decisions that really make no sense. Episode 9 even allows you to sit back and let someone else do your work.work if and when you fail to complete it on your own a few times.



*** If your bike gets stolen, don't ask a teacher for help, because [[AdultsAreUseless he's more interested in showing off how much more clever he is than his students than actually solving the problem]]. In this ''anti-bullying'' game, you're more likely to get results by chasing the thief, shoving him off your bike, and taking it back yourself; you can always correct a mistake you made yourself, but once you involve a teacher, you're essentially putting all your faith in a very powerful idiot. It doesn't help if you've played any of the other Zap Dramatic games, and you know that, [[CreatorsPet no matter what Zap Dramatic wants you to believe,]] Mr. Hartrup is ''pants-on-head insane''.
*** The stolen bike puzzle itself breaks its own moral because the lesson is not to make assumptions. The bike isn't being stolen, but another kid, whom you've never seen before, is riding an identical bike and taunting you about how you can't catch him as he speeds away from the place where you left your own bike unattended. It gives you the option to look for your own bike first (knowing the other kid will definitely get away if you don't give chase ''right now''), but if you take it, you get a congratulations message about how you're one of the rare few who wouldn't see all these things and ''not'' assume your bike is being stolen - [[ButThouMust and then you're told the story can't continue if you don't go through the mistaken thief subplot, and takes you back to the branch to choose to assume the bike is stolen.]]

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*** If your bike gets stolen, don't ask a teacher for help, because [[AdultsAreUseless he's more interested in showing off how much more clever he is than his students than actually solving the problem]]. In this ''anti-bullying'' game, you're more likely to get results by chasing the thief, shoving him off your bike, and taking it back yourself; you can always correct a mistake you made yourself, but once you involve a teacher, you're essentially putting all your faith in a very powerful idiot. It doesn't help if you've played any of that Mr. Hartrup is more or less meant to be the other Zap Dramatic games, same character as Ted from ''Ambition'' - and you know that, [[CreatorsPet no matter what Zap Dramatic wants you to believe,]] Mr. Hartrup believe]], he is ''pants-on-head ''one hundred percent pants-on-head insane''.
*** The stolen bike puzzle itself breaks its own moral because the lesson is not to make assumptions. The bike isn't being stolen, but another kid, whom you've never seen before, is riding an identical bike and taunting you about how you can't catch him as he speeds away from the place where you left your own bike unattended. It gives you the option to look for your own bike first (knowing the other kid will definitely get away if you don't give chase ''right now''), but if you take it, you get a congratulations message about how you're one of the rare few who wouldn't see all these things and ''not'' assume your bike is being stolen - [[ButThouMust and then you're told the story can't continue if you don't go through the mistaken thief subplot, and takes you back to the branch to choose to assume the bike is stolen.]]]] For good measure, it then also assumes that, since you're one of the few who wouldn't react to a situation with violence, you're probably better off playing as a girl.
25th Mar '17 12:43:13 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** [[WordOfGod According to the developers]] of ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 1}}'', the risk of a Broken Aesop was why one of the MultipleEndings for the town of Junktown was changed. The player has to decide between aiding a sheriff or a sleazy casino owner. Originally, the ending for assisting the Sheriff reveals that he [[spoiler:becomes a low-grade KnightTemplar]], and Junktown [[spoiler:stays small because people avoid the hassle]]. Assist the sleazy casino owner, though, and Junktown [[spoiler:thrives, because [[EvenEvilHasStandards the sleazy casino owner understands that slavers, drug users, and actively immoral people are bad for his business, and wipes them out]]]]. In the game proper, though, the Sheriff is the 'good' choice.

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** [[WordOfGod According to the developers]] of ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 1}}'', the risk of a Broken Aesop was why one of the MultipleEndings for the town of Junktown was changed. The player has to decide between aiding a sheriff or a sleazy casino owner. Originally, the ending for assisting the Sheriff reveals that he [[spoiler:becomes a low-grade KnightTemplar]], and Junktown [[spoiler:stays small because people avoid the hassle]]. Assist the sleazy casino owner, though, and Junktown [[spoiler:thrives, because [[EvenEvilHasStandards [[PragmaticVillainy the sleazy casino owner understands that slavers, drug users, and actively immoral people are bad for his business, and wipes them out]]]]. In the game proper, though, the Sheriff is the 'good' choice.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=BrokenAesop.VideoGames